Slightly longer answer is that some 2-mana secrets are better than some 3-mana secrets. I'd say Freezing trap is better than Ice Armor for example.
But to keep them actual secrets, they must keep cost same for all for one class.
That really depends. Ice Barrier will always prevent 8 damage when triggered (ignoring Platebreaker edge cases here), where Freezing Trap stops repeated damage - but it also protects your minions by triggering on any minion attack. That however is also its downside. The smallest minion makes it useless and it enables battlecries to be played twice.
So it is way better in some cases and way worse in others, while Ice Barrier is always ‘stay alive a bit longer’.
On topic: probably because of Sorcerer’s Apprentice in the original mage design space. At two mana that would be a 50% reduction which is a huge value boost.
I definitely think that mage secrets are stronger than the other classes. Counter spell at 2 mana would be incredibly strong as well as the 4 mana minion summon. Barrier is just consistent with healing touch, less flexible but gives a potential mind play advantage. 2 mana aoe for 3 would be too good too.
***Not calling for a nerf*** but I would say that rogue secrets at the moment are as strong as mage secrets for 1 less mana. I think it is also dependant on how the class synergies uses them as to how much they should cost. Arcane Flakmage would be pretty OP with 2 mana secrets for example.
Because, as a group, mage secrets are better. Put another way, if you had to choose a class to get a random secret from, you're better off picking mage than any other class. Of course there are crappy mage secrets, but that's true of the other classes too. I think, in general, the mana costs of the various secrets track pretty well with their real gameplay value.
No, it is not, as long the opponent know how to play around, it is easy to do because rogue have very few secrets.
Play one spell and if don't trigger, stop doing things in that turn and use hero power instead, if the opponent play aggro looking for lethal fill the hand of rogue player with no taunt small minions don't will help Valeera anyway.
Hunter secrets are way more powerful for 2 manas because is way harder to play around.
I think technically a lot of them are a bit stronger. 6 damage from Explosive Runes compared to Snipe. Cat in a Hat is a 3 drop, contrasted with a 4 drop from Netherwind Portal (a consistent 3 drop might be better than a random 4, but NWP can certainly highroll hige). However, in practice, I think the differences are often kinda small.
Would the game of Hearthstone would be better if the mage secrets were changed to 2 mana (perhaps with nerfs where needed) and the Paladin secrets were changed to 2 mana as well (with buffs where needed, and a nerf to Who-Am-I and wherever else needed)? I don't know if I fully agree with that premise, but trying to balance all secrets around the same cost would probably be nice. It'd mean that "random secret" effects would be a lot more consistent.
***Not calling for a nerf*** but I would say that rogue secrets at the moment are as strong as mage secrets for 1 less mana. I think it is also dependant on how the class synergies uses them as to how much they should cost. Arcane Flakmage would be pretty OP with 2 mana secrets for example.
Their cost is right anyways. One summons a 3 mana cost card (a 2/3 poissonous); other draws you 2 cards (an Intellect), a third one increases the level of a monster by 3 (a 2 cost Shaman card), an the last one depends on the cards your opponent play. Considering that your opponent can play around them, 2 cost is fair. Maybe, a good question is if Mage spells should cost see more play.
Do they really cost 3? In standard, no mage secret is really worth a deckslot and playing it from hand for 3 mana. Blizzard knows they are weak and printed Kirin Tor Mage, and then followed up with the mana-cheaters Mad Scientist, Kabal Lackey and Ancient Mysteries, which together makes for an extremely strong secret aggro package in Wild. Other archetypes have used the secrets for value and stall. They failed with Glacial Mysteries, however, it should probably be 6 mana to be viable.
The secrets vary extremely in both how much they have been played:
To be honest the majority effects are worth 3 mana by hearthstone math. Most effects that destroy a card are worth about three and they can be disruptive in their own right, as well as prevent some things from happening. Its not uncommon to have cases where the only spell left in your hand is a board clear and they drop a secret on you making it very hard to respond. Some have floped spectacularly but in most cases gaining a mage secret is rarely bad, regardless of who,
There's a really distinct difference between the way pre-Un'goro secrets and post-Un'goro secrets are designed.
Pre-Un'goro secrets for the most part are very much about disruption. Your opponent wants to do a thing, you stop them. And often the variance level of the secret is based on the thing your opponent wanted to do. i.e. Counterspell stopping a pyroblast is a lot stronger than Counterspell stopping an Arcane Shot. Mirror Entity summoning a Ragnaros is a lot better than Mirror Entity summoning a goldshire footman.
Newer secrets are IMO much better designed. They're less focused on disruption and more focused on generating value in response to what your opponent is doing. i.e. netherwind portal ALWAYS summons a 4 drop, it might be a good 4 drop or a bad 4 drop but it's always a 4 drop. And because it's summoned in response to a spell, it could be in response to your opponent using a spell to summon their own minion, or to generate some value or something.
Ambush is a similar example. They've summoned a minion, so you summon a minion that no matter what can trade into that minion and destroy it.
So typically I'm kinda hoping when they redo the basic/classic set, they get rid of the high variance secrets (Freezing Trap, Counterspell, Misdirection, Mirror Entity) and replace them with lower variance, but more reliably powerful newer secrets. This especially goes for Paladin secrets which have a HUGE level of variance.
I'm just wondering what actually makes Mage secrets worth the cost? Are Mage secrets actually worth 3 mana compared to Hunter and Rogue secrets?
Some of them are crazy good for their cost, others are worth it (yeah, even compared to Hunter and Rogue secrets) and others are too expensive for what they do. We are talking about Hearthstone after all. What is balance? :P
I'm just wondering what actually makes Mage secrets worth the cost? Are Mage secrets actually worth 3 mana compared to Hunter and Rogue secrets?
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
Short answer : Yes they are. And don't get me started on older secrets that are now in wild.
Slightly longer answer is that some 2-mana secrets are better than some 3-mana secrets. I'd say Freezing trap is better than Ice Armor for example.
But to keep them actual secrets, they must keep cost same for all for one class.
Freezing trap is better when you're being attacked by C'Thun, but what about when you're being attacked by a silver hand recruit?
They're completely different cards. Is vaporize better than freeze trap?
That really depends. Ice Barrier will always prevent 8 damage when triggered (ignoring Platebreaker edge cases here), where Freezing Trap stops repeated damage - but it also protects your minions by triggering on any minion attack. That however is also its downside. The smallest minion makes it useless and it enables battlecries to be played twice.
So it is way better in some cases and way worse in others, while Ice Barrier is always ‘stay alive a bit longer’.
On topic: probably because of Sorcerer’s Apprentice in the original mage design space. At two mana that would be a 50% reduction which is a huge value boost.
Mages are notorious chatterboxes. The cost reflects how hard it is for them to keep a secret :)
I definitely think that mage secrets are stronger than the other classes. Counter spell at 2 mana would be incredibly strong as well as the 4 mana minion summon. Barrier is just consistent with healing touch, less flexible but gives a potential mind play advantage. 2 mana aoe for 3 would be too good too.
The real question is why they are not changing druid while they are still winning or losing just depending on if they cheat 1 single card or not?
***Not calling for a nerf*** but I would say that rogue secrets at the moment are as strong as mage secrets for 1 less mana. I think it is also dependant on how the class synergies uses them as to how much they should cost. Arcane Flakmage would be pretty OP with 2 mana secrets for example.
Because, as a group, mage secrets are better. Put another way, if you had to choose a class to get a random secret from, you're better off picking mage than any other class. Of course there are crappy mage secrets, but that's true of the other classes too. I think, in general, the mana costs of the various secrets track pretty well with their real gameplay value.
Plagiarize is insane for 2 mana, imo.
No, it is not, as long the opponent know how to play around, it is easy to do because rogue have very few secrets.
Play one spell and if don't trigger, stop doing things in that turn and use hero power instead, if the opponent play aggro looking for lethal fill the hand of rogue player with no taunt small minions don't will help Valeera anyway.
Hunter secrets are way more powerful for 2 manas because is way harder to play around.
I think technically a lot of them are a bit stronger. 6 damage from Explosive Runes compared to Snipe. Cat in a Hat is a 3 drop, contrasted with a 4 drop from Netherwind Portal (a consistent 3 drop might be better than a random 4, but NWP can certainly highroll hige). However, in practice, I think the differences are often kinda small.
Would the game of Hearthstone would be better if the mage secrets were changed to 2 mana (perhaps with nerfs where needed) and the Paladin secrets were changed to 2 mana as well (with buffs where needed, and a nerf to Who-Am-I and wherever else needed)? I don't know if I fully agree with that premise, but trying to balance all secrets around the same cost would probably be nice. It'd mean that "random secret" effects would be a lot more consistent.
Their cost is right anyways. One summons a 3 mana cost card (a 2/3 poissonous); other draws you 2 cards (an Intellect), a third one increases the level of a monster by 3 (a 2 cost Shaman card), an the last one depends on the cards your opponent play. Considering that your opponent can play around them, 2 cost is fair. Maybe, a good question is if Mage spells should cost see more play.
Do they really cost 3? In standard, no mage secret is really worth a deckslot and playing it from hand for 3 mana. Blizzard knows they are weak and printed Kirin Tor Mage, and then followed up with the mana-cheaters Mad Scientist, Kabal Lackey and Ancient Mysteries, which together makes for an extremely strong secret aggro package in Wild. Other archetypes have used the secrets for value and stall. They failed with Glacial Mysteries, however, it should probably be 6 mana to be viable.
The secrets vary extremely in both how much they have been played:
Borderline broken in their respective decks, almost worth a deck slot on their own:
Explosive Runes
Flame Ward
Netherwind Portal
Ice Block
Solid options and "tech" secrets:
Duplicate
Counterspell
Mirror Entity
Potion of Polymorph
Ice Barrier (slower mages only)
Curveballs:
Vaporize
Effigy
Splitting Image
Spellbender
Awful designs as they are played around with Mirror Entity and Counterspell anyway:
Frozen Clone
Mana Bind
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
To be honest the majority effects are worth 3 mana by hearthstone math. Most effects that destroy a card are worth about three and they can be disruptive in their own right, as well as prevent some things from happening. Its not uncommon to have cases where the only spell left in your hand is a board clear and they drop a secret on you making it very hard to respond. Some have floped spectacularly but in most cases gaining a mage secret is rarely bad, regardless of who,
There's a really distinct difference between the way pre-Un'goro secrets and post-Un'goro secrets are designed.
Pre-Un'goro secrets for the most part are very much about disruption. Your opponent wants to do a thing, you stop them. And often the variance level of the secret is based on the thing your opponent wanted to do. i.e. Counterspell stopping a pyroblast is a lot stronger than Counterspell stopping an Arcane Shot. Mirror Entity summoning a Ragnaros is a lot better than Mirror Entity summoning a goldshire footman.
Newer secrets are IMO much better designed. They're less focused on disruption and more focused on generating value in response to what your opponent is doing. i.e. netherwind portal ALWAYS summons a 4 drop, it might be a good 4 drop or a bad 4 drop but it's always a 4 drop. And because it's summoned in response to a spell, it could be in response to your opponent using a spell to summon their own minion, or to generate some value or something.
Ambush is a similar example. They've summoned a minion, so you summon a minion that no matter what can trade into that minion and destroy it.
So typically I'm kinda hoping when they redo the basic/classic set, they get rid of the high variance secrets (Freezing Trap, Counterspell, Misdirection, Mirror Entity) and replace them with lower variance, but more reliably powerful newer secrets. This especially goes for Paladin secrets which have a HUGE level of variance.
Some of them are crazy good for their cost, others are worth it (yeah, even compared to Hunter and Rogue secrets) and others are too expensive for what they do. We are talking about Hearthstone after all. What is balance? :P
Mage secrets cost 0 every time I see one played....
Fun > Meta
in wild, all mage secrets cost 0 mana