Playing my warlock deck I don't have any issues with Druid; be it token, mountseller or guardian-beast. They're pretty much breakfast, as are duel paladin, libram paladin, pirate warrior, big warrior and lol dh.
As far as nerfs concerned, the only card I feel to be OP is Secret Passage. Glide should be removed altogether. It singlehandly disables control + OTK in wild; anti-fun retarded card. Kael'thas Sunstrider should be reworded so that it can only trigger once per turn.
As for why they are waiting so long? To give people time to spend their money on the new expansion. This unbalanced stuff is on purpose; you don't really think a multi-billion dollar company with a dedicated design team has no clue on what they're releasing, right?
I've been playing since before Naxx and I've never been as eager for nerfs to happen as I am now. No doubt that's partly due to being spoiled with prompt and frequent nerfs last expansion, but still.
Nothing is S-tier, but some stuff is very unfun to play against and should, based on past Blizzard behavior, get nerfed.
Druid, yes, is too unbeatable and too frustrating to lose to when it fires on all cylinders. Paladin, yes, I keep hearing that it's just not a problem at high Legend ... but most of us are casual scrubs that aren't at high Legend! (I'm Diamond 5, and not likely to make Legend.) I play against it way too often, it gets boring, and it's too far ahead of everything else on HSReplay winrates. You can't just tell the entire casual fanbase "git gud," it's an appropriate situation for nerfs.
Secret Passage should probably be nerfed just because, and combo mages may have low winrates and not be common, but they are maximum-ly uninteractive when they work. It's really a terrible player experience -- either the one that uses Polkelt to chain a huge Mozaki Miracle, or especially the one that plays Tortollan Pilgrims for nigh-infinite Potions of Illusion, Blizzards, and Khartuts. Both should be nerfed.
combo mages may have low winrates and not be common, but they are maximum-ly uninteractive when they work.
There are 12 freeze cards in combo mage decks: blizzard x2, twinspell x4, nova x2, frostbolt x2, the new combo card x2. The whole deck is about being uninteractive. Fortunately, they don't hit their combo very often.
They will not nerf or change anything a mere two days before GrandMasters begin. Likely atleast week 2-3 before we see any semblance of a balance update.
Having said that, I don’t think anything is overly oppressive. The only cards I would want to be changed is Kael'thas Sunstrider changing the third spell to cost 1, or perhaps make the current effect a battlecry and thus, a one turn effect. And Secret Passage to either cost 3, or reduce the cards drawn to 4. Paladin isn’t really much of an issue, people just haven’t made the refined decks to face it yet. There are cards like Bad Luck Albatross (Pro tip: the 1/1Albatross are beasts, so it messes up Guardian Animals),Ironbeak Owl, and Tinkmaster Overspark available to EVERYONE besides class specific cards like Polymorph and Hex. Complaining won’t help, get thinking and testing!!
Sunstrider's 3rd spell cost could be 3 mana; it'd make for some trifecta flavor. Overgrowth is so incredibly pushed that it might warrant some kind of nerf or rework itself. Secret Passage is an insane card but Rogue decks themselves haven't been overly oppressive yet. Paladin is definitely an issue because no amount of deck refinement can beat curvestone; some cards are going to get nerfed so long as Libram Pure is an archetype.
Honestly Team 5 has done a great job with SA but they could've done better with balancing, as per usual.
You finding something boring is purely subjective and doesn't indicate anything is broken. What indicates whether something is broken or not is highlighted in win rates that are higher than they should be as well as a lack of counter to the cards or deck. There are decks that can counter druid nicely, it isn't broken. I expect they will want a slightly higher data sample to assess if it needs toning down a bit and the sample will indicate what it is that needs toning down.
This community seems to have a real struggle with words and what they mean. Terms like broken and OP are used so often and so often I correctly that it just an inconsistent mess of various people complaining about something they personally find bad. You can't physically manage a business like that, you would be making changes daily as well as reverting changes because almost anytime you do change something, there will be happy people and there will be unhappy people. You need to weigh it up and go for the best solution for the masses.
Terms of broken and OP are used often because the game is indeed unbalanced, it's their new philosophy make everything broken to nerfs later, it is not news to anyone , we all know that.
People are right to complain.
In the words of Kibler, why does everyone jump to the conclusion that new cards are needing nerfs rather than 'how can I beat this'.
I think we need to spend more time making our own deck with our own ideas rather than net-decking the first week of every expansion and yelling "Uncle" when something starts winning more that you expected.
You finding something boring is purely subjective and doesn't indicate anything is broken. What indicates whether something is broken or not is highlighted in win rates that are higher than they should be as well as a lack of counter to the cards or deck. There are decks that can counter druid nicely, it isn't broken. I expect they will want a slightly higher data sample to assess if it needs toning down a bit and the sample will indicate what it is that needs toning down.
This community seems to have a real struggle with words and what they mean. Terms like broken and OP are used so often and so often I correctly that it just an inconsistent mess of various people complaining about something they personally find bad. You can't physically manage a business like that, you would be making changes daily as well as reverting changes because almost anytime you do change something, there will be happy people and there will be unhappy people. You need to weigh it up and go for the best solution for the masses.
Terms of broken and OP are used often because the game is indeed unbalanced, it's their new philosophy make everything broken to nerfs later, it is not news to anyone , we all know that.
People are right to complain.
In the words of Kibler, why does everyone jump to the conclusion that new cards are needing nerfs rather than 'how can I beat this'.
I think we need to spend more time making our own deck with our own ideas rather than net-decking the first week of every expansion and yelling "Uncle" when something starts winning more that you expected.
I made at least 4 decks myself and play it at top legend, i know better than kibler.
I’m not having too much trouble against Druid or Paladin personally. (Playing mostly Highlander Mage and Quest Rogue) I think even their most insane openers aren’t too oppressive. Nowhere near as bad as we’ve seen in the past with things like the old Conjurers Mage, Evolve Shaman or the first Pirate Warrior.
But that being said I do play a lot of tech cards like Devolving Missiles and Sap etc.
I do expect some nerfs but I don’t think either deck is as strong as people are making out. I imagine Argent Braggart becoming 3 mana and Guardian Animals going up to 8.
Isn't it funny how people were complaining how terrible paladin was a few weeks ago and now its a huge problem and needs to be nerfed by 6 cards? I hate this community, all yall do is bitch.
I know, every day there was a thread... "The problem with paladin"... "Poor paladin"... "No control paladin". Drove me nuts.
- Can someone please explain why this happens every time and why people are always so upset?
Because the world is filled with a bunch of babies who have grown up in a fantasy world where they have been coddled and told everything they do is correct. They have never had a bad idea or an incorrect opinion and there is never any room for growth through learning from mistakes because all they've heard their entire life is how great they are....so when they're bad at a video game there is no possible way it could be their fault; nope, it HAS to be the "broken" game. There is no other explanation.
Priest is the problem, it makes this game so boring.
Gala priest is a blast to play at least. I jumped on the libram paladin train, thought for once I'll play the busted deck on release. Holy shit it's boring to play. Like seriously boring.
To me, there is a distinction between OP, broken, and cancer. I don’t find Druid and Paladin (or Priest) particularly oppressive—so not OP or Broken. Druid has always had some crazy high rolls, it’s a function of the class’ mana manipulation and I would expect most strategies to incorporate big spells and mana cheating. That’s a given.
But I would say Druid and Paladin are “cancerous” because of their ubiquity. It gets old pretty quickly. However, I don’t think nerfs are really appropriate to address that. A significant number of players will not spend money or dust to get cards that don’t have proven results. Libram Paladin is relatively inexpensive, easy to understand and succeed with. Of course, it’s everywhere.
Historically, nerfs were reserved for cards that consistently render entire archetypes or play styles inviable. I would agree with those that say post release nerfs are part of the release design, but I would be surprised if Druid or Paladin are seriously impacted by these despite how present they are.
They wait because OP thinks something is op while it is not.
Druid is Highroll and annoying, hell yes. Is it broken? Hell no. Does it even have an insane winrate? No, it dropped to 4th place today. Play counters. There are a lot.
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Playing my warlock deck I don't have any issues with Druid; be it token, mountseller or guardian-beast.
They're pretty much breakfast, as are duel paladin, libram paladin, pirate warrior, big warrior and lol dh.
As far as nerfs concerned, the only card I feel to be OP is Secret Passage.
Glide should be removed altogether. It singlehandly disables control + OTK in wild; anti-fun retarded card.
Kael'thas Sunstrider should be reworded so that it can only trigger once per turn.
As for why they are waiting so long? To give people time to spend their money on the new expansion. This unbalanced stuff is on purpose; you don't really think a multi-billion dollar company with a dedicated design team has no clue on what they're releasing, right?
I play rogue and i win against druid most of the time, either with tempo rogue or full aggro rogue, both works for me against druid
of course if you draw your deck in the worst order possible and they don't, you might loss, just like against any class
i have more problems with priest than with druid, but it might be just me, and depends what you play i guess
I don't quite understand this:
- Whenever a new expansion drops and a meta forms, people complain that the best deck is broken
- It doesn't matter what class or what the comparative power level is, anything that is tier 1 seems to be "cancer"
- I'm a wild player so I don't follow much on standard
- Can someone please explain why this happens every time and why people are always so upset?
In gallon we trust .. bout time the developers got pro peoples opinions
I've been playing since before Naxx and I've never been as eager for nerfs to happen as I am now. No doubt that's partly due to being spoiled with prompt and frequent nerfs last expansion, but still.
Nothing is S-tier, but some stuff is very unfun to play against and should, based on past Blizzard behavior, get nerfed.
Druid, yes, is too unbeatable and too frustrating to lose to when it fires on all cylinders. Paladin, yes, I keep hearing that it's just not a problem at high Legend ... but most of us are casual scrubs that aren't at high Legend! (I'm Diamond 5, and not likely to make Legend.) I play against it way too often, it gets boring, and it's too far ahead of everything else on HSReplay winrates. You can't just tell the entire casual fanbase "git gud," it's an appropriate situation for nerfs.
Secret Passage should probably be nerfed just because, and combo mages may have low winrates and not be common, but they are maximum-ly uninteractive when they work. It's really a terrible player experience -- either the one that uses Polkelt to chain a huge Mozaki Miracle, or especially the one that plays Tortollan Pilgrims for nigh-infinite Potions of Illusion, Blizzards, and Khartuts. Both should be nerfed.
There are 12 freeze cards in combo mage decks: blizzard x2, twinspell x4, nova x2, frostbolt x2, the new combo card x2. The whole deck is about being uninteractive. Fortunately, they don't hit their combo very often.
Priest is the problem, it makes this game so boring.
They will not nerf or change anything a mere two days before GrandMasters begin. Likely atleast week 2-3 before we see any semblance of a balance update.
Having said that, I don’t think anything is overly oppressive. The only cards I would want to be changed is Kael'thas Sunstrider changing the third spell to cost 1, or perhaps make the current effect a battlecry and thus, a one turn effect. And Secret Passage to either cost 3, or reduce the cards drawn to 4.
Paladin isn’t really much of an issue, people just haven’t made the refined decks to face it yet. There are cards like Bad Luck Albatross (Pro tip: the 1/1Albatross are beasts, so it messes up Guardian Animals),Ironbeak Owl, and Tinkmaster Overspark available to EVERYONE besides class specific cards like Polymorph and Hex.
Complaining won’t help, get thinking and testing!!
:)
https://hsreplay.net/replay/27u2NJTZZJgToJ6k6n5BTM
Sunstrider's 3rd spell cost could be 3 mana; it'd make for some trifecta flavor. Overgrowth is so incredibly pushed that it might warrant some kind of nerf or rework itself. Secret Passage is an insane card but Rogue decks themselves haven't been overly oppressive yet. Paladin is definitely an issue because no amount of deck refinement can beat curvestone; some cards are going to get nerfed so long as Libram Pure is an archetype.
Honestly Team 5 has done a great job with SA but they could've done better with balancing, as per usual.
In the words of Kibler, why does everyone jump to the conclusion that new cards are needing nerfs rather than 'how can I beat this'.
I think we need to spend more time making our own deck with our own ideas rather than net-decking the first week of every expansion and yelling "Uncle" when something starts winning more that you expected.
This space is intentionally blank.
I made at least 4 decks myself and play it at top legend, i know better than kibler.
Too many people play this game, that's all.
I’m not having too much trouble against Druid or Paladin personally. (Playing mostly Highlander Mage and Quest Rogue) I think even their most insane openers aren’t too oppressive. Nowhere near as bad as we’ve seen in the past with things like the old Conjurers Mage, Evolve Shaman or the first Pirate Warrior.
But that being said I do play a lot of tech cards like Devolving Missiles and Sap etc.
I do expect some nerfs but I don’t think either deck is as strong as people are making out. I imagine Argent Braggart becoming 3 mana and Guardian Animals going up to 8.
The exp just released ,wait for the meta settles ,adapt to It.People like you are killing this game with all this moaning
blad druid is a bare batty class right now but I hate waste paladin much more. nerf both of them and buff mage.
I know, every day there was a thread... "The problem with paladin"... "Poor paladin"... "No control paladin". Drove me nuts.
Because the world is filled with a bunch of babies who have grown up in a fantasy world where they have been coddled and told everything they do is correct. They have never had a bad idea or an incorrect opinion and there is never any room for growth through learning from mistakes because all they've heard their entire life is how great they are....so when they're bad at a video game there is no possible way it could be their fault; nope, it HAS to be the "broken" game. There is no other explanation.
Gala priest is a blast to play at least. I jumped on the libram paladin train, thought for once I'll play the busted deck on release. Holy shit it's boring to play. Like seriously boring.
To me, there is a distinction between OP, broken, and cancer. I don’t find Druid and Paladin (or Priest) particularly oppressive—so not OP or Broken. Druid has always had some crazy high rolls, it’s a function of the class’ mana manipulation and I would expect most strategies to incorporate big spells and mana cheating. That’s a given.
But I would say Druid and Paladin are “cancerous” because of their ubiquity. It gets old pretty quickly. However, I don’t think nerfs are really appropriate to address that. A significant number of players will not spend money or dust to get cards that don’t have proven results. Libram Paladin is relatively inexpensive, easy to understand and succeed with. Of course, it’s everywhere.
Historically, nerfs were reserved for cards that consistently render entire archetypes or play styles inviable. I would agree with those that say post release nerfs are part of the release design, but I would be surprised if Druid or Paladin are seriously impacted by these despite how present they are.
They wait because OP thinks something is op while it is not.
Druid is Highroll and annoying, hell yes. Is it broken? Hell no. Does it even have an insane winrate? No, it dropped to 4th place today.
Play counters. There are a lot.