I'm playing this sortof control deck. It does well against most aggro decks, and has some fair matchups vs some control decks and big decks too. Cool thing is that it can easily spiral out into a token/aggro deck too if you get a bit lucky with the card generations and if your opponent cannot deal with tons of minions.
Basically figured that since 1 cost shaman spells are so good, this deck would work out great with a lot of them generated. you tend to get a lot of Devolving Missiles from Wandmaker and Cobalt Spellkin to deal with paladin buffed minions and that new beast ramp druid. and also plenty of 1 cost spells that are great against aggro.
The worst matchups are galakrond priests who manage to out-control you, and very swingy weapon rogues. Other than that, most are fair game, and it's a lot of fun.
Handlock with a lot of control is doing okay. I probably need to add kel-thuzad. probably around a tier 2. the 2 new giants allow for turn around boards. it's been pretty good. Has about 40/60 chance against druid and buff paly, though with more games my play against those are improving as they are harder matches.
I am performing really good with this Control Highlander Warrior list, neither Druid or Rogue has been an issue. Warrior has surely received good control tools, Lord Barov above all is exceptional. I think Control Warrior (either Highlander or normal lists) will be the best way to counter Aggro in the upcoming meta
I'm playing this sortof control deck. It does well against most aggro decks, and has some fair matchups vs some control decks and big decks too. Cool thing is that it can easily spiral out into a token/aggro deck too if you get a bit lucky with the card generations and if your opponent cannot deal with tons of minions.
Basically figured that since 1 cost shaman spells are so good, this deck would work out great with a lot of them generated. you tend to get a lot of Devolving Missiles from Wandmaker and Cobalt Spellkin to deal with paladin buffed minions and that new beast ramp druid. and also plenty of 1 cost spells that are great against aggro.
The worst matchups are galakrond priests who manage to out-control you, and very swingy weapon rogues. Other than that, most are fair game, and it's a lot of fun.
Looks interesting and I already have most of the cards. Imma try this out.
The very fact the question is asked signals this expansion the very best of aggression thus far. Thought the skill floor was on the rise. How stupid I was even to consider that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
I am 23-3 with control Galakrond rogue lmao. Get rekt people who think control is dead.
Control Galakrond rogue? WTF is that? Rogue don't have healing, don't have mass removals, I can be wrong call Libram paladin midrange instead control but Galakrond rogue is midrange for sure not control.
Wanna bet? It is control when you can play polkelt into treasure for a free scrapyard colossus and khartut defender and then shuffle more into your deck with shadow of death, then pull more out with stowaway. Add me and watch to witness the gloriousness.
Well I mean if you're willing to stretch definitions that far, I suppose any deck is an aggro deck in that at some point it does damage, even if that is by forcing fatigue damage thru making the opponent live that long. But, in the fairly useful style of categorizing decks into the triumvirate of aggro, control, and combo . . . there isn't really much debate about what decks fall where.
Again, unless you somehow are trying to build a "pure" combo deck in which you have the combo pieces and nothing but varieties of cantrips and tutor cards, every combo deck will have removal, or life gain, or freeze mechanics, or armor gain, or something that gears towards keeping oneself alive until the combo can be enacted. That in no way makes a deck a control deck. In fact, I did a disservice to the topic by suggesting that having a bunch of removal is somehow even suggestive of control. It isn't.
Also, it's important to note that ANY deck may find itself playing a control role in any given game, but that does not make the deck control. Whether a deck is considered aggro/control/combo is based solely around how it is INTENDED to win games. That is why I say there is no successful control rogue. Though it is true, the Galakrond rogues today may find themselves fighting a value game deep into fatigue, that is not the intended win condition, and the reason I know that is true is the frequent inclusion of Edwin Van Cleef, Questing Adventurer, and Heistbaron Togwaggle. These cards are all very aggressive options, and clearly evidence a desire to beat down the opponent.
In any case, I made an offhand comment that has grown well beyond the scope of the OP, so I shall drop it. Hope everyone is having a solid first day with the new cards.
P.s. Jesus people, nearly every class is capable of putting two damage into the opponent's board by turn 3 or 4. Quit acting as if the Gibberling druid is an impossile matchup and adjust your deck accordingly
EDIT: Posted before I saw the "blah blah blah wrong" response. Well argued, my dude. Always nice to see some mutual respect and weight given to a fellow poster's ideas. In any case, I haven't seen the decklist, I took my cue from your own original description of the deck, which is combo beyond a shadow of a doubt. But since you insist on being rude, I'll just point out I said there's never been a "successful" control rogue and defined what I meant by the term. Your homebrew doesn't come close to fitting the bill yet, so I have no idea why so defensive. Who knows, though? I'm sure Lorekeeper/Heistbaron/Big Rogue will be all the new rage come HCT time.
Your definition of combo is wrong. Combo is a combination of cards that create a lethal play. That is it, cheat Maly out do 30+ damage 1 turn, combo.
Building a wall, healing, creating copies and cheating said copies out are value and long game plays. The definition of control.
Also, rogue N'Zoth wants a word with you... Huge heals, long game, taunt wall, removal... Feels kinda value/controllish.
Kingbane rogue? Heal, removal late game win? It's a very control styled deck.
Mech rogue? Huge heals, removal, value...
Nope no control rogues in Hearthstone a history...
Kingsbane and Mech Rogue never had any success in the level I mentioned in my post. And I addressed why Kingsbane is not a control deck, in any case. EDIT: I'm not going to erase this line because someone may have alerady read it, but I just realized that when I made my post late last night, I had written a part about Kingsbane and accidentally deleted it. I was too tired to rewrite. So I apologize, I was incorrect about having mentioned Kingsbane already (I make another comment about that below).
Nonetheless, I specifically said in my post that there was not a "successful" control rogue and defined success as being a part of the major tournament metas. So, even if we were to take Kingsbane Rogue as a control deck, which I do not, it was never successful in that way.
Furthermore, it is absolutely untrue that a combo has to be a one-turn-kill. Otherwise, there would be no need to label a deck as a one-turn-kill combo. That would be redundant. If a combo deck has to be OTK, then Shudderwock isn't a combo deck. It required a bare minimum of four turns of specific cards to be played, including two full turns of playing nothing but Shudderwocks. Surely you wouldn't argue that deck was not a combo. Similarly, Raza/Anduin can't be a combo deck if being a combo requires a one-turn kill. Oh, and Grim Patron Warrior could be OTK but certainly didn't have to be. Yet all of these are (assuming someone isn't arguing for the sake of arguing) universally considered combo decks. Note: I already addressed the fact that Raza/Anduin may be the only deck in Hearthstone tournament history that really manages to plant one foot into control and one into combo, but it CERTAINLY has its combo element.
The post which started this sub-thread referred to a deck which used Heistbaron to get a Wand in one turn, then use Lorekeeper to put a bunch of giant creatures on top of deck and wand to make three of them cost zero, and subsequently attack on the third turn of the combo for the win. As I have stated repeatedly, the classification of a deck as aggro, control, or combo is not based on whether or not there is life gain and removal found in the deck. It is based solely on the intended win condition of the deck. This has always been the case, and always will be the case.
And the word "intended" in the phrase "intended win condition" is very important. An OG Miracle Rogue deck might find itself against an opponent with an abnormally horrible draw and beat the opponent down with an Azure Drake and a Cold Blooded Auctioneer just attacking for beat down damage. Yet Miracle Rogue is very obviously not an aggro deck.
So, returning to the deck in question, a control rogue deck would not include a bunch of giant creatures and certainly wouldn't include Lorekeeper, it would add more answers and perhaps some other sources of value generation. The win condition would presumably be the value generated by infinite lackeys. The deck that I described may in fact find itself resorting to this plan if its large creature attack is thwarted, but that's a combo deck trying to make something happen after a failed combo . . . not a control deck.
I already gave a perfect example of a real control deck, but if you want to consider the purest of control decks we've seen in some time, go look back at 2017 era Big Spell Mage. BSM was NOT a control deck because it had a bunch of board clears. It was a control deck because its planned win condition was nearly always Frost Lich Jaina. The boa constrictor of Hearthstone, Frost Lich Jaina was the ultimate opportunistic value generators. And yes, there were a few threats beyond Jaina, but notice that each threat had a value-related purpose. Lich King was a defensive card before it came online as an attacker via taunt, plus you were guaranteed one generated death knight card. Baron Geddon was another AoE plus massive heal via Jaina. Sindragosa was a huge value play, particularly post-Jaina. Alexstraza obviously has her battle cry which was at least as commonly defensive as offensive. And if you need more evidence that control is a value game, the one threat which did not represent value gain and was a completely offensive measure (Dragoncaller Alaina) was only seen in half the BSM decks in tournaments, and was the first card to be cut whenever tech cards like Skulking Geist or Ooze were desired.
Having typed this argument out three times, I really have to get off this thread. It's not meant to be rude, but you quoted a post of mine that already answered half your points. The fact that you mentioned Kingsbane without noting that I had already fully addressed that makes me think you didn't bother reading my post before responding, and thus, you probably won't read this far anyway. But either way, I'm out. Take the definitions I have provided or leave them, but the ultimate point which I have proven over and over again - that a deck containing removal or defensive cards doesn't imply a control deck - will stand regardless of how many assertions to the contrary.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The very fact the question is asked signals this expansion the very best of aggression thus far. Thought the skill floor was on the rise. How stupid I was even to consider that.
Betraying someone you know in the internet for more than four years without considering the consequences is much more stupid than that, don't worry. XD
No, I try the entire day and not close to be good, give up, build a tempo mage and now I have good chances against the 2 giants of this meta, beast druid and pure paladin.
This. I'm playing Galalock with soul shards in top 1000 legend with great success against most aggro and Druid. Getting shit on by freeze Mage and face hunter though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm playing this sortof control deck. It does well against most aggro decks, and has some fair matchups vs some control decks and big decks too. Cool thing is that it can easily spiral out into a token/aggro deck too if you get a bit lucky with the card generations and if your opponent cannot deal with tons of minions.
Basically figured that since 1 cost shaman spells are so good, this deck would work out great with a lot of them generated. you tend to get a lot of Devolving Missiles from Wandmaker and Cobalt Spellkin to deal with paladin buffed minions and that new beast ramp druid. and also plenty of 1 cost spells that are great against aggro.
The worst matchups are galakrond priests who manage to out-control you, and very swingy weapon rogues. Other than that, most are fair game, and it's a lot of fun.
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
in wild for sure, i can't be bothered to even try control in standard, would be just a waste of time
Handlock with a lot of control is doing okay. I probably need to add kel-thuzad. probably around a tier 2. the 2 new giants allow for turn around boards. it's been pretty good. Has about 40/60 chance against druid and buff paly, though with more games my play against those are improving as they are harder matches.
Galakrond Warlock is super strong, Plague of Flames absolutely wrecks Druid, and it can keep up with aggro thanks to the Soul Fragment package.
I am performing really good with this Control Highlander Warrior list, neither Druid or Rogue has been an issue. Warrior has surely received good control tools, Lord Barov above all is exceptional.
I think Control Warrior (either Highlander or normal lists) will be the best way to counter Aggro in the upcoming meta
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1360447-scholomance-control-highlander-warrior
Looks interesting and I already have most of the cards. Imma try this out.
I say this every time - control takes the longest to develop because you need to know what kind of metagame you're controlling.
That said, Handlock is pretty decent.
The very fact the question is asked signals this expansion the very best of aggression thus far. Thought the skill floor was on the rise. How stupid I was even to consider that.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
share this deck of madness with us
Kingsbane and Mech Rogue never had any success in the level I mentioned in my post. And I addressed why Kingsbane is not a control deck, in any case. EDIT: I'm not going to erase this line because someone may have alerady read it, but I just realized that when I made my post late last night, I had written a part about Kingsbane and accidentally deleted it. I was too tired to rewrite. So I apologize, I was incorrect about having mentioned Kingsbane already (I make another comment about that below).
Nonetheless, I specifically said in my post that there was not a "successful" control rogue and defined success as being a part of the major tournament metas. So, even if we were to take Kingsbane Rogue as a control deck, which I do not, it was never successful in that way.
Furthermore, it is absolutely untrue that a combo has to be a one-turn-kill. Otherwise, there would be no need to label a deck as a one-turn-kill combo. That would be redundant. If a combo deck has to be OTK, then Shudderwock isn't a combo deck. It required a bare minimum of four turns of specific cards to be played, including two full turns of playing nothing but Shudderwocks. Surely you wouldn't argue that deck was not a combo. Similarly, Raza/Anduin can't be a combo deck if being a combo requires a one-turn kill. Oh, and Grim Patron Warrior could be OTK but certainly didn't have to be. Yet all of these are (assuming someone isn't arguing for the sake of arguing) universally considered combo decks. Note: I already addressed the fact that Raza/Anduin may be the only deck in Hearthstone tournament history that really manages to plant one foot into control and one into combo, but it CERTAINLY has its combo element.
The post which started this sub-thread referred to a deck which used Heistbaron to get a Wand in one turn, then use Lorekeeper to put a bunch of giant creatures on top of deck and wand to make three of them cost zero, and subsequently attack on the third turn of the combo for the win. As I have stated repeatedly, the classification of a deck as aggro, control, or combo is not based on whether or not there is life gain and removal found in the deck. It is based solely on the intended win condition of the deck. This has always been the case, and always will be the case.
And the word "intended" in the phrase "intended win condition" is very important. An OG Miracle Rogue deck might find itself against an opponent with an abnormally horrible draw and beat the opponent down with an Azure Drake and a Cold Blooded Auctioneer just attacking for beat down damage. Yet Miracle Rogue is very obviously not an aggro deck.
So, returning to the deck in question, a control rogue deck would not include a bunch of giant creatures and certainly wouldn't include Lorekeeper, it would add more answers and perhaps some other sources of value generation. The win condition would presumably be the value generated by infinite lackeys. The deck that I described may in fact find itself resorting to this plan if its large creature attack is thwarted, but that's a combo deck trying to make something happen after a failed combo . . . not a control deck.
I already gave a perfect example of a real control deck, but if you want to consider the purest of control decks we've seen in some time, go look back at 2017 era Big Spell Mage. BSM was NOT a control deck because it had a bunch of board clears. It was a control deck because its planned win condition was nearly always Frost Lich Jaina. The boa constrictor of Hearthstone, Frost Lich Jaina was the ultimate opportunistic value generators. And yes, there were a few threats beyond Jaina, but notice that each threat had a value-related purpose. Lich King was a defensive card before it came online as an attacker via taunt, plus you were guaranteed one generated death knight card. Baron Geddon was another AoE plus massive heal via Jaina. Sindragosa was a huge value play, particularly post-Jaina. Alexstraza obviously has her battle cry which was at least as commonly defensive as offensive. And if you need more evidence that control is a value game, the one threat which did not represent value gain and was a completely offensive measure (Dragoncaller Alaina) was only seen in half the BSM decks in tournaments, and was the first card to be cut whenever tech cards like Skulking Geist or Ooze were desired.
Having typed this argument out three times, I really have to get off this thread. It's not meant to be rude, but you quoted a post of mine that already answered half your points. The fact that you mentioned Kingsbane without noting that I had already fully addressed that makes me think you didn't bother reading my post before responding, and thus, you probably won't read this far anyway. But either way, I'm out. Take the definitions I have provided or leave them, but the ultimate point which I have proven over and over again - that a deck containing removal or defensive cards doesn't imply a control deck - will stand regardless of how many assertions to the contrary.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Betraying someone you know in the internet for more than four years without considering the consequences is much more stupid than that, don't worry. XD
No, I try the entire day and not close to be good, give up, build a tempo mage and now I have good chances against the 2 giants of this meta, beast druid and pure paladin.
This. I'm playing Galalock with soul shards in top 1000 legend with great success against most aggro and Druid. Getting shit on by freeze Mage and face hunter though.