Not necessarily a nerf for DH in general, but definitely a nerf for the currently popular super-fast ultra-aggro DH. I am fine with this change as I believe that no matchup should ever be decided on turn 1, which was quite often the case when DHs would pull off something like Battlefiend + Coin + Battlefiend/ + Twin Slice + hero attack
They just nerfed the early game of DH with that change.
But later in the game its is still OP with Altruis the Outcast and does more damage, so overall we will have to see how this "Nerf" actually plays out.
Feels like a pretty fair nerf. The card seems more in line with some other cards in different classes, and I'm glad it's not just "make the card unplayable". And it will most certainly impact DH's performance. Specifically, Altruis will be much worse now, possibly forcing DH to drop the card and change its gameplan entirely. The Altruis combos are a big reason to focus so much on drawing. Other cards like Satyr Overseer and Glaivebound Adept will also be impacted, but Odd DH in Wild shows that these cards are still worth running without a 0 mana Twin Slice. My guess is that people will focus more on weapons again, possibly reintroducing Aldrachi Warblades, which should do nicely with the new Twin Silce.
Yes, Wild is the smaller format. Still, it has a huge number of players who comparatively have spent more money on the game. It is especially popular in China, which is an important market.
Yes, it was obvious that the class would be weaker than the others due to limited options.
Still the new class was the the main reason why I pre-ordered the larger bundle. Now I can play one deck (Odd DH) that plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
Genn is the card for Even decks.
I don't mind Odd DH that much. You could call it lame, as in one-dimensional, but that's true for most classes in Wild (and Standard). Priest plays nothing but slow control Highlander, Druid is forced into armor stacking (with Jades or some Combo at the end), Warrior has to play pirates, since they have no sufficient win condition in the late game, Rogue is unremarkable, losing to aggressive decks with Kingsbane and Mill, and to Highlander with anything else, and Hunter is pretty much dead.
Odd DH is not a very exciting deck, but one that is playable. Some classes have way more cards to choose from, and are still in a worse position.
I really hope this didn't make odd dh even better than it already is. There's already too much aggro on the fucking ladder and odd dh is far worse than any pirate warrior deck.
Feels like a pretty fair nerf. The card seems more in line with some other cards in different classes, and I'm glad it's not just "make the card unplayable". And it will most certainly impact DH's performance. Specifically, Altruis will be much worse now, possibly forcing DH to drop the card and change its gameplan entirely. The Altruis combos are a big reason to focus so much on drawing. Other cards like Satyr Overseer and Glaivebound Adept will also be impacted, but Odd DH in Wild shows that these cards are still worth running without a 0 mana Twin Slice. My guess is that people will focus more on weapons again, possibly reintroducing Aldrachi Warblades, which should do nicely with the new Twin Silce.
Yes, Wild is the smaller format. Still, it has a huge number of players who comparatively have spent more money on the game. It is especially popular in China, which is an important market.
Yes, it was obvious that the class would be weaker than the others due to limited options.
Still the new class was the the main reason why I pre-ordered the larger bundle. Now I can play one deck (Odd DH) that plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
Genn is the card for Even decks.
I don't mind Odd DH that much. You could call it lame, as in one-dimensional, but that's true for most classes in Wild (and Standard). Priest plays nothing but slow control Highlander, Druid is forced into armor stacking (with Jades or some Combo at the end), Warrior has to play pirates, since they have no sufficient win condition in the late game, Rogue is unremarkable, losing to aggressive decks with Kingsbane and Mill, and to Highlander with anything else, and Hunter is pretty much dead.
Odd DH is not a very exciting deck, but one that is playable. Some classes have way more cards to choose from, and are still in a worse position.
Yeah my bad. I meant Genn.
However, I have to disagree. At least the Highlander classes have a lot of "viable" (as in, would appear T4 upwards on Tempostorm) decks, just that they are so expensive that no one plays them.
You are right that Hunter is even more dead than DH, but that is mostly for another reason. Instead of a limited card pool, Hunter is too limited by identity. Especially the Beast Tribe is just bad game design, they can do everything a little bit, but aren't good at anything. Pirates support Aggrrro, Dragons have the holding mechanic which makes for slower decks, Demons have their cheating tools, Murlocs their AoE board buffs, and Mechs their single target buffs. Elementals lack new support but even they are shaped more than the Beast Tribe.
Yes, Wild is the smaller format. Still, it has a huge number of players who comparatively have spent more money on the game. It is especially popular in China, which is an important market.
Yes, it was obvious that the class would be weaker than the others due to limited options.
Still the new class was the the main reason why I pre-ordered the larger bundle. Now I can play one deck (Odd DH) that plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
I am not familiar with the wild meta but vicious syndicate data seems to indicate odd demon hunter is extremely strong (and now might be stronger).
This is a major buff to Wild Odd demon hunter. The nerf seems reasonable.
Also, please don't compare spells to hero attack damage. Look at these 2 cards dealing 4 damage, note that the spell has a condition:
Still, Eviscerate is a MUCH better card because of the target flexibility a spell gives, and that your never takes damage when cast.
Twinslice is probably closer to eviscerate because a) you have the flexibility to play twinslice over 1 or 2 turns, b) hero attack synergies in demon hunter that don't exist in warrior
This is a major buff to Wild Odd demon hunter. The nerf seems reasonable.
Also, please don't compare spells to hero attack damage. Look at these 2 cards dealing 4 damage, note that the spell has a condition:
Still, Eviscerate is a MUCH better card because of the target flexibility a spell gives, and that your never takes damage when cast.
Twinslice is probably closer to eviscerate because a) you have the flexibility to play twinslice over 1 or 2 turns, b) hero attack synergies in demon hunter that don't exist in warrior
No, it is not. Hero attacks and weapons are difficult to compare with spells. In terms of power level, it should be better than Heroc Strike, yes.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
I'm not sure what you mean. In your words, Odd-DH is a bad deck. That means it getting a buff (being able to play this card) would be a good thing, no?
Also, if Genn Greymane (not baku) were to lower DH's hero power to 0, that literally wouldn't do anything until post-turn-10. The reason why it works, making your hero power cost 1 in an even-deck, is so that you can use your HP on turn 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 without having 1 leftover mana that you can't otherwise use because all of your cards' mana costs are even.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
I'm not sure what you mean. In your words, Odd-DH is a bad deck. That means it getting a buff (being able to play this card) would be a good thing, no?
Also, if Genn Greymane (not baku) were to lower DH's hero power to 0, that literally wouldn't do anything until post-turn-10. The reason why it works, making your hero power cost 1 in an even-deck, is so that you can use your HP on turn 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 without having 1 leftover mana that you can't otherwise use because all of your cards' mana costs are even.
No, I never said it is bad, in fact I said it is the only playable DH deck right now. I said it is lame. It is a curvestone deck that plays out like it came from the GvG meta.
How would having a zero mana hero power do nothing? You can play an on curve card on every even turn and still use your hero power.
This nerf directly impacts the top 3 of the top 5 highest w/r cards in the deck (and arguably 4 - Itself, Altruis, Battlefiend, and Sayter). DH is going to need to go back to the drawing board.
From a WR perspective, this single change of card certainly will make the meta moves.
IMO the move will be significant, and to a slightly slower tempo requirement, may be 0.5 to 1 turn slower on average.
The move will also draw more healing needs, may be 2-4 additional healing be welcomed.
Now is a good time to explore new deck mana structure.
Perhaps no need to have 20+ cards in 1 - 3 slots to ensure survival anymore. :P~~~
Yes, Wild is the smaller format. Still, it has a huge number of players who comparatively have spent more money on the game. It is especially popular in China, which is an important market.
Yes, it was obvious that the class would be weaker than the others due to limited options.
Still the new class was the the main reason why I pre-ordered the larger bundle. Now I can play one deck (Odd DH) that plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
In Standard people complain how strong DH is, but in Wild you can only complain how LAME it is. Playing as or against Demon Hunter never is much fun. Eventually I think that is true for Standard as well and 50% of the whole issue regarding that class.
They should change Baku to lower the starting hero power by 1. That would enable Even DH and buff Highlander DH, so we would have two or maybe three viable decks then.
This is a horrible idea for a number of reasons. DH still has about 4 problematic cards that need to get nerfed and the class is just going to be 1 dimensional for a while until it gets more cards.
This nerf directly impacts the top 3 of the top 5 highest w/r cards in the deck (and arguably 4 - Itself, Altruis, Battlefiend, and Sayter). DH is going to need to go back to the drawing board.
From a WR perspective, this single change of card certainly will make the meta moves.
IMO the move will be significant, and to a slightly slower tempo requirement, may be 0.5 to 1 turn slower on average.
The move will also draw more healing needs, may be 2-4 additional healing be welcomed.
Now is a good time to explore new deck mana structure.
Perhaps no need to have 20+ cards in 1 - 3 slots to ensure survival anymore. :P~~~
Lots of decks including spellkin to generate 2 sets of this can along with their own copy for an insane combo which happens quite often as how many 1 cost spells do they have in total ... 3?
Hmmm, this might actually open the door for a more mid-range DH to start being decent. With the mentioned Spellkin, your only 1 cost spells are now Twin Slice, Consume Magic and Mana Burn. There are really no duds in that list.
I just have a feeling there are some good DH decks lurking out there that make more use of neutral cards. They just haven't had a chance to be discovered because the core DH aggro deck is so strong.
Think about what happened with Warlock recently. They nerf Scrap Imp, making zoo just a decent deck. People play around and find that quest warlock is amazing. It was there all along, but people weren't really looking for it because there was this impression that the class was "solved" with the Scrap Imp zoo build. Now here we are with a deck that is arguably stronger than the zoo version ever was.
i just died to a demon hunter that played 8 copies of twin slice because of spellkin. and just as your point said all of their 1 mana spells are pretty good options.
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Not necessarily a nerf for DH in general, but definitely a nerf for the currently popular super-fast ultra-aggro DH. I am fine with this change as I believe that no matchup should ever be decided on turn 1, which was quite often the case when DHs would pull off something like Battlefiend + Coin + Battlefiend/ + Twin Slice + hero attack
It is a nerf to the early game, however it's a buff to the midgame. I don't know how to think about this change yet.
It never left; it was always there. I am so hungry for a slice of jade now.
They just nerfed the early game of DH with that change.
But later in the game its is still OP with Altruis the Outcast and does more damage, so overall we will have to see how this "Nerf" actually plays out.
Feels like a pretty fair nerf. The card seems more in line with some other cards in different classes, and I'm glad it's not just "make the card unplayable". And it will most certainly impact DH's performance. Specifically, Altruis will be much worse now, possibly forcing DH to drop the card and change its gameplan entirely. The Altruis combos are a big reason to focus so much on drawing. Other cards like Satyr Overseer and Glaivebound Adept will also be impacted, but Odd DH in Wild shows that these cards are still worth running without a 0 mana Twin Slice. My guess is that people will focus more on weapons again, possibly reintroducing Aldrachi Warblades, which should do nicely with the new Twin Silce.
Genn is the card for Even decks.
I don't mind Odd DH that much. You could call it lame, as in one-dimensional, but that's true for most classes in Wild (and Standard). Priest plays nothing but slow control Highlander, Druid is forced into armor stacking (with Jades or some Combo at the end), Warrior has to play pirates, since they have no sufficient win condition in the late game, Rogue is unremarkable, losing to aggressive decks with Kingsbane and Mill, and to Highlander with anything else, and Hunter is pretty much dead.
Odd DH is not a very exciting deck, but one that is playable. Some classes have way more cards to choose from, and are still in a worse position.
too bad, I liked that opponent DH used that trash card, hope they still continue to use after change
I really hope this didn't make odd dh even better than it already is. There's already too much aggro on the fucking ladder and odd dh is far worse than any pirate warrior deck.
Yeah my bad. I meant Genn.
However, I have to disagree. At least the Highlander classes have a lot of "viable" (as in, would appear T4 upwards on Tempostorm) decks, just that they are so expensive that no one plays them.
You are right that Hunter is even more dead than DH, but that is mostly for another reason. Instead of a limited card pool, Hunter is too limited by identity. Especially the Beast Tribe is just bad game design, they can do everything a little bit, but aren't good at anything. Pirates support Aggrrro, Dragons have the holding mechanic which makes for slower decks, Demons have their cheating tools, Murlocs their AoE board buffs, and Mechs their single target buffs. Elementals lack new support but even they are shaped more than the Beast Tribe.
I am not familiar with the wild meta but vicious syndicate data seems to indicate odd demon hunter is extremely strong (and now might be stronger).
you are forgetting druid ....they were demolished by dh so now that dh is dead druid will be top meta deck
Twinslice is probably closer to eviscerate because a) you have the flexibility to play twinslice over 1 or 2 turns, b) hero attack synergies in demon hunter that don't exist in warrior
No, it is not. Hero attacks and weapons are difficult to compare with spells. In terms of power level, it should be better than Heroc Strike, yes.
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I'm not sure what you mean. In your words, Odd-DH is a bad deck. That means it getting a buff (being able to play this card) would be a good thing, no?
Also, if Genn Greymane (not baku) were to lower DH's hero power to 0, that literally wouldn't do anything until post-turn-10. The reason why it works, making your hero power cost 1 in an even-deck, is so that you can use your HP on turn 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 without having 1 leftover mana that you can't otherwise use because all of your cards' mana costs are even.
No, I never said it is bad, in fact I said it is the only playable DH deck right now. I said it is lame. It is a curvestone deck that plays out like it came from the GvG meta.
How would having a zero mana hero power do nothing? You can play an on curve card on every even turn and still use your hero power.
Hiting face for 12 damage because you have 3 Twin Slice in hand is very fun. Thanks Cobalt Spellkin and Consume Magic.
From a WR perspective, this single change of card certainly will make the meta moves.
IMO the move will be significant, and to a slightly slower tempo requirement, may be 0.5 to 1 turn slower on average.
The move will also draw more healing needs, may be 2-4 additional healing be welcomed.
Now is a good time to explore new deck mana structure.
Perhaps no need to have 20+ cards in 1 - 3 slots to ensure survival anymore. :P~~~
:P~~~
This is a horrible idea for a number of reasons. DH still has about 4 problematic cards that need to get nerfed and the class is just going to be 1 dimensional for a while until it gets more cards.
Maybe Aldrachi Warblades will be a good card to include now
Lots of decks including spellkin to generate 2 sets of this can along with their own copy for an insane combo which happens quite often as how many 1 cost spells do they have in total ... 3?
Definitely not a nerf to the class
i just died to a demon hunter that played 8 copies of twin slice because of spellkin. and just as your point said all of their 1 mana spells are pretty good options.
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