Hearthpwn

Quote from Claesh >>

Quote from BeardedBear >>

Quote from DickDraggin >>

Looks like the same experience for me this season in wild. 

I am using my own home brew Mage deck.  I quit playing ranked early last season in gold so I have limit d bonus stars.  This is 3 seasons in a row now if the exact same formula playing out.

I start the new season strong, barely losing any games rising up to the top half of gold. I see a good variety of decks on the way, quite balanced. 

As soon as I get top half of gold everything changes. This is a night and day difference. I see no variety anymore and my win rate drops to 50%. All I face now are great Priest and Rogue decks, at least 8 out of 10 are one of these two classes.  Maybe the odd demon Warlock. 

The previous 2 seasons this is where I quit out of principle.  I went back to casual matches and found variety and a good winrate again. 

I hate this.  Nothing gets gradually harder as you climb. A switch is flipped for me early in gold and it's like I'm fighting at diamond level 1 to try to hot legend. Nonsense.  They believe this will drive me to invest more in the game, but instead, knowing I am being manipulated, it drives me away. 

I'd much rather have an equal bucket system knowing the first week of each season will be a bit tougher and the last a bit easier. 

Maybe the timing of the switch is linked to when your bonus stars run out. 

I see people talking about the rank of their opponents. How do you see this?  On my phone and laptop all I see is their names.   Without knowing who I am playing how am I to determine how good my homebrew deck is now?

 Well put

 I see this theory every now and then. Personally, I usually only play meta decks, so could never really relate. This season I decided to go off meta and brew something up, to see what all the fuzz was about.

The result is that I hit legend in both wild (rank 158) and standard (rank 450) faster than ever before, so it is quite safe to say my experience was very different. Same pattern for me emerged on both ladders: Started out struggling at just about 50% win rate, but due to star bonuses I still climbed well. Hitting diamond I was a lot more familiar with my deck and how to handle the meta, and my win rate rose to just over 60% (61 wild, 63 standard).

Learning the decks had a big impact on my success, but I think I was also helped by the MMR system. Struggling early lowered my MMR from last season, which meant I got a fighting chance even with off meta deck and inexperience. 

For reference I played Quest Hunter in standard and Reno Demon Hunter in wild.

 Interesting... congrats on your success using your own ingenuity. Well done!

Quote from BeardedBear >>

Quote from Claesh >>

 I see this theory every now and then. Personally, I usually only play meta decks, so could never really relate. This season I decided to go off meta and brew something up, to see what all the fuzz was about.

The result is that I hit legend in both wild (rank 158) and standard (rank 450) faster than ever before, so it is quite safe to say my experience was very different. Same pattern for me emerged on both ladders: Started out struggling at just about 50% win rate, but due to star bonuses I still climbed well. Hitting diamond I was a lot more familiar with my deck and how to handle the meta, and my win rate rose to just over 60% (61 wild, 63 standard).

Learning the decks had a big impact on my success, but I think I was also helped by the MMR system. Struggling early lowered my MMR from last season, which meant I got a fighting chance even with off meta deck and inexperience. 

For reference I played Quest Hunter in standard and Reno Demon Hunter in wild.

 Interesting... congrats on your success using your own ingenuity. Well done!

 Thanks, but I didn’t conjure the decks up entirely. The archetypes are known, just not part of the current meta. Made some adjustments according to the meta I was seeing.

My run to legend from the last month.

I don't see my winning streak being followed by any losing streak.

If anything, after climbing to legend, my win rate only improved.

The four pictures show:
- my last 22 games before reaching legend, with 19 wins (I think)
- my win rate before reaching legend (67%)
- my win rate at the end of the month (68%)
- my win rate at legend rank only (71%)

So whatever theory you have of how the new system is punishing you, it seems to elude me, so maybe, just maybe, the fault doesn't reside in the system, but in your approach to understand it.

This is an interesting thread... I do not feel like there’s some nefarious magical algorithm that’s mucking with things behind the scenes. I think it’s very obvious and well documented. Blizz, and other game makers, prefers things to remain around 50/50 so I think it’s entirely plausible that the deck (meta or not) your stomping folks with might, quite suddenly, become unsuccessful. Is that “rigged”? I dunno.. maybe yeah?.? I don’t think that it’s always because one has forgotten how to play the deck or one has suddenly started making mistakes against the same meta decks they were stomping even against a more skilled player. I mean this situation benefits them financially... hoping folks will probably pay money for that one more bundle that may have that one card they need (I’ve done this in previous years).

This game we all love is getting really unpredictable, dare I say “random” or “RNG” without getting whacked by the try-hard turds trying to sound important.  

With that all said... I still really like the game. I don’t obsess over climbing and I really don’t get bent when I lose or make mistakes, and some days that’s a lot. Even then I don’t feel like I’m being punished either..perhaps the OP does but who am I to yell at them for feeling that way even if I’ve not felt that way?  I know that tomorrow I may have a stellar winning streak. Good luck to everyone. 

Can someone link me to the documentation on the MMR system.  Or, I should say instead, systems.

It seems there are 2 systems and I was right that the switch occurs when your bonus stars run out.  

"Kerfluffle, Community Manager of Blizzard, informs us that there are two different MMR: " There is one which is based on your star multiplier which is allocated to you at the end of the season. When this is 1, one another takes over and builds on your current rank . ""

https://www.millenium.us.org/news/15453.html

So for me, I finished Gold in Wild last year because I quit ranked for this reason.  So this season, I am playing crappy opponents in the first MMR system.  I start out with a very high win rate through bronze and silver.  For someone who finished Legend last season, they will face some tough opponents to start.  Those people will not get the win rate I did in the first system that is active while you have bonus stars.

I exit the first MMR system early in Gold with a high season win rate.  Those with lots of bonus stars play in the first system much longer and do not get an elevated win rate.

So then we enter MMR system 2.  I have no information on how this works.  My vague idea is that it somehow reviews your win rate and matches you against opponents based on that both with regards to class and MMR.  You are not permitted to know what rank those opponents are now.  The only reason to hide this now is that there will be large disparities at times and they don't want everyone to see this.  

So is it possible that when I enter the second MMR system, that I am being punished for the very high win rate I saw from the first MMR system?  

I think that HS should report the rank of your opponent again period.  There is no excuse for not reporting this.  If there is nothing nefarious worth hiding then there is no reason for the secrecy.

why play ladder if you want to play off meta decks?

you are an ocasional player, the ranked ladder doesnt matter to you!

I play between 100-200 matches per season.   I am not happy net decking and copying the meta, I aspire to challenge the meta.  So I like to make my own decks and want to know how they compare.  With the old system it was clear.  When I made it to standard rank 6 with my own aggressive version of Highlander Mage I was content with that.  Ladder worked fine then, so the key question is why change it?

Now I started playing wild and I have a unique Mage deck and I want to know how it compares.  I want to know if I was able to build a decent mouse trap.  But I can't it seems in the new MMR system since I have no idea who the second system is matching me against.  If it's other Gold rank players then my deck sucks obviously.  If it's diamond and legend players then I know I have something half decent and will put more time into seeing it through. 

When I play casual it does very well, but I don't know if that's because the casual pool sucks.

Maybe if I had hit legend the previous season, then perhaps I would be in a better position to do so.  But now I have to get my ass kicked long enough to negate the position I was put in by my high win rate in the first MMR system this season.  Exiting the first system early with a good deck and win rate then entering the second system which will match you against anyone seems to be a significant hurdle to new players or those wishing to transition from casual to ladder.  This transition for me from one system to the next at Gold for me is like someone hit the switch from Easy to Master rather than any curve like the old system.  Having that change occur in Gold makes for a very hard, long climb.

I guess to start next season I should throw a lot of matches until my stars run out. 

Quote from fabjx71 >>

It does two things:

1) It greatly disadvantages average f2p players like me

2) It kills the creativity of the game.

I play at platinum rank and mainly self-brewed decks that I find fun to play and I manage to stir my deck and win sometimes also vs similarly ranked players who play tier 1/2 decks. Now what happens is that as soon as I have a decent win rate the system immediately and repeatedly matches me vs legend players who play high tier decks forcing me into loss streaks that push my rank back and making it almost impossible for me to progress. Mind, I have never been legend, mainly because I usually don't play meta decks  but I can easily realise that my overall win rate now is a lot worse than it used to be with the old system.

So basically playing an off meta deck is a lot more punishing now and players are even more discouraged to do so than before. Also the fact that you're not matched to equally ranked players frustrates your effort to climb the ladder as an occasional player who does not play so often. 

Just my two cents

 1) Nope

2) Nope

The deck I am using has 1 legendary, 0 epics and is aggro.  My opponents were easy in MMRa but very hard in MMRb (after your bonus stars run out).

So it seems I am stuck playing vs Rez Priest half my matches, which I despise, not knowing if my deck is good or not.  Or quitting again.  Thanks Blizzard.

What do you mean? I love love playing boringass legend netdeckers while only diamond. It's fucking phenomenal.

Quote from LUTi >>

why play ladder if you want to play off meta decks?

you are an ocasional player, the ranked ladder doesnt matter to you!

 And this right here is one of the biggest concerns within the game, thank you for pointing it out.

Are you playing competitively -> play ladder

Are you casual -> play casual

90%+ just netdeck so casual isnt any different from ladder with exception to running into more hunters/dh in diamond+ ladder

can you imagine being casual and wanting to compete, its not like they are oposite things right?!!!!

if this is real you are extremely lucky having that win streak in Diamond. I had a win streak like that through plat with Spell druid. But after D10 no matter what deck i play if i get a 3 win streak by luck then the game imediately puts me in unwinnable games for the next 3 matches no joke... It happened 4 times already,  good win streak for me then Nope, game's like you aint gonna win anymore.... So yea i think with no bonus stars the Diamond ranks are a struggle and the match making is shady at least.

Quote from 30phillosgamer >>

if this is real you are extremely lucky having that win streak in Diamond. I had a win streak like that through plat with Spell druid. But after D10 no matter what deck i play if i get a 3 win streak by luck then the game imediately puts me in unwinnable games for the next 3 matches no joke... It happened 4 times already,  good win streak for me then Nope, game's like you aint gonna win anymore.... So yea i think with no bonus stars the Diamond ranks are a struggle and the match making is shady at least.

 You shouldn't be matched against legend players at diamond, thats just fucking stupid.(unless D1) Doesnt make any sense diamond players arent matched against other diamond players. Since new ranking system, I always have to quit playing in diamond because seeing 1 of 3 netdecks every single game is trash and mindnulling waste of time.

Oh you played zephrys....guess i lose...

So yea i think with no bonus stars the Diamond ranks are a struggle and the match making is shady at least.

No, it isn't shady at all. It is COMPETITIVE. All your opponents are switching between decks they know to try to be ahead of the meta and catch a streak.

I have never read anyone on this forum speculate about WIN streaks being shady. For a $$ point of view, that would be much more beneficial! Hell, they could even let you well made ladderbots with bad draws! Just see:

-Just crafted a deck? Have some easy wins to feel good about it.

-Bought some packs? Have some easy wins to buy more.

-You played a shitty deck badly and lost 10 in a row? Have some easy wins to keep playing.

So why do so many see ghosts that they rig losing streaks against you? Because of confirmation bias and that is easier to blame that game than yourself.

The rank floors are designed to let you play whatever deck you want. Get to one and then have your fun.

Quote from Fyrfytr998 >>

As long as this game has been going on, one thing has always been constant. If you want to ladder to legend, you have to play meta decks eventually.

Leave the home brews for casual if fun is what you are after. If not, accept that it is what it is, and you will remain stuck where you are if you can't adapt to the ranking system.

 That is not true.

I've reached legend 3 times, two of them with homemade decks with archetypes that no one plays on meta, like warrior mecha'thun or highlander dragon priest.