Hearthpwn

become to easy to

Too*

Yes, it is easier to reach Legend but honestly, now that I have reached Legend a few times, I don't even try anymore. I like to stay at D5 and try some net decks as well as decks of my own brew.

Quote from Sevasmios >>

So I don't know that it's safe to say that skill was not as important as time in the old system, although this is definitely subjective. Time is certainly less of an issue now with the star bonus. And I think you are perhaps misrepresenting or misunderstanding precisely what made the climb so much more difficult in the old days. It wasn't just that it took more time, it was why it took more time. You had to play and win more games and win those games more consistently to get to legend than you do now (provided you have a good star bonus, of course). As such, skill was far more impactful in the old system with regard to who reached legend and how quickly it was reached than it is now. So I would hardly characterize legend in the old system as trivial, given how the grindy nature of it was actually favorable to more skilled players attaining high rank due to the greater consistency that was required. 

 I think my point is that, under either system, determination is the critical component. If you want to reach Legend, you can, and could before, and most people are not likely to get there by accident either way unless they've already done so and started at a high rank (old system) or have a lot of bonus stars (new system), in which case it doesn't matter because they have already achieved the goal in question.

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Sevasmios >>

So I don't know that it's safe to say that skill was not as important as time in the old system, although this is definitely subjective. Time is certainly less of an issue now with the star bonus. And I think you are perhaps misrepresenting or misunderstanding precisely what made the climb so much more difficult in the old days. It wasn't just that it took more time, it was why it took more time. You had to play and win more games and win those games more consistently to get to legend than you do now (provided you have a good star bonus, of course). As such, skill was far more impactful in the old system with regard to who reached legend and how quickly it was reached than it is now. So I would hardly characterize legend in the old system as trivial, given how the grindy nature of it was actually favorable to more skilled players attaining high rank due to the greater consistency that was required. 

 I think my point is that, under either system, determination is the critical component. If you want to reach Legend, you can, and could before, and most people are not likely to get there by accident either way unless they've already done so and started at a high rank (old system) or have a lot of bonus stars (new system), in which case it doesn't matter because they have already achieved the goal in question.

 If that was that you meant, then yes, I tend to agree that actually wanting to hit legend is generally necessary to hit legend. You could say that about pretty much any pursuit in any area of life but sure, it holds here. And I agree that generally getting there doesn't happen on accident. I still think it's important to note, however, that determination is not the sole prerequisite for getting there. You can't just get legend because you want to get legend: you have to reach a certain level of proficiency with your deck and with the game overall, and not everyone can necessarily do that. Some people just aren't that good at card games, and of course many more don't have the time or don't want to spend the time necessary to achieve legend. I'm sure you know this as well, I just wanted to clarify bc it sort of sounds like you're saying all you need to hit legend is determination. 

Meanwhile I'm having a hard time getting the 5 wins quest done :))

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Sevasmios >>

So I don't know that it's safe to say that skill was not as important as time in the old system, although this is definitely subjective. Time is certainly less of an issue now with the star bonus. And I think you are perhaps misrepresenting or misunderstanding precisely what made the climb so much more difficult in the old days. It wasn't just that it took more time, it was why it took more time. You had to play and win more games and win those games more consistently to get to legend than you do now (provided you have a good star bonus, of course). As such, skill was far more impactful in the old system with regard to who reached legend and how quickly it was reached than it is now. So I would hardly characterize legend in the old system as trivial, given how the grindy nature of it was actually favorable to more skilled players attaining high rank due to the greater consistency that was required. 

 I think my point is that, under either system, determination is the critical component. If you want to reach Legend, you can, and could before, and most people are not likely to get there by accident either way unless they've already done so and started at a high rank (old system) or have a lot of bonus stars (new system), in which case it doesn't matter because they have already achieved the goal in question.

 If that was that you meant, then yes, I tend to agree that actually wanting to hit legend is generally necessary to hit legend. You could say that about pretty much any pursuit in any area of life but sure, it holds here. And I agree that generally getting there doesn't happen on accident. I still think it's important to note, however, that determination is not the sole prerequisite for getting there. You can't just get legend because you want to get legend: you have to reach a certain level of proficiency with your deck and with the game overall, and not everyone can necessarily do that. Some people just aren't that good at card games, and of course many more don't have the time or don't want to spend the time necessary to achieve legend. I'm sure you know this as well, I just wanted to clarify bc it sort of sounds like you're saying all you need to hit legend is determination. 

 But the skill needed hasn't changed. I'm not convinced the time investment was so much greater in the old days that any determined, reasonably capable player would have failed to hit legend because the clock ran out. Thus, determination is the most important factor, with skill and time in a tie for distant second.

Quote from FortyDust >>

 But the skill needed hasn't changed. I'm not convinced the time investment was so much greater in the old days that any determined, reasonably capable player would have failed to hit legend because the clock ran out. Thus, determination is the most important factor, with skill and time in a tie for distant second.

 Ok, so I do disagree that the skill required hasn't changed. I stated my reasoning as to why that would be the case in my initial reply to you (greater consistency required in the old system since there were no massive star bonuses or win streaks). If you have some sort of counterargument entailing why that would not be the case I'd be interested to hear it. With that said, I think it's pretty hard to appraise the value of a relatively esoteric concept like determination against more quantifiable things like time and skill. All are important to hit legend, I have a hard time accepting the premise that determination, abstract as it is, is exponentially more pertinent to the achievement than time or skill. I don't see much use in deliberating over that though, that's pretty philosophical and virtually impossible to definitively establish one way or the other. We can agree that determination is important, as are time and skill. I would be interested to hear specifically why you think, in terms of skill, the climb to legend now is exactly the same as it was in the old days.

Hit no.1 Legend then. At least try to go for 11 star bonus.

I see lots of players saying 'everyone can hit legend now, its so easy tomzpot mobdro

I've played since beta and never hit legend, it's pretty hard to get to there.

You can hit legend even with off-meta deck (this and previous season I managed to hit legend with Soulstealer Demonlock in standard), so I would not say it's very difficult. Still you need to know meta very well, know your deck very well, know when you should play for value, when for tempo, what risk you need to take. And also accept that sometimes your opponent will be very lucky and you will be unable to do anything (sometimes several games in a row).

So if you cannot hit legend you need to learn how to play better, play more or change deck.

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from Aegis24 >>

Legend is only easy to hit if you devote a lot of time to the game.  With the way the bonus star system works you have to play a lot every month or your bonus stars disappear.  I found that out the hard way

 Easy is relative, but I don't know that you necessarily have to devote a lot of time to hit it with relative ease. Initially sure, you have to learn how to play and get good with whatever archetype you've chosen to focus on, but once you are good enough and dedicate enough time to hit high legend and you do things become significantly easier. This is primarily bc of the 11 star bonus, which just makes the grind so much less difficult after you hit Diamond 5. So far as I understand it this is not affected by how many games you play each month, or at least this hasn't been the case for me. If you play a relatively small number of games to high legend with a good WR and barely play for the rest of the month, you're still getting that 11 star bonus so long as you remain in the higher ranks (and sometimes even if you don't if your overall mmr is high enough). With that said I definitely am not attempting to trivialize the process of getting good enough or putting in the time/effort to reach this point. I just don't think that attaining legend is nearly as difficult once you have the 11 star bonus.  Granted I'm referring to a pretty small proportion of the player base, but I still think it's worth pointing out that legend can be much easier to hit than it was in the old days.

 As I recall the 11 star bonus is purely for… top 1000 legend?  Correct me if I’m wrong here.  When the new ranking system came out I started with 8 bonus stars.  I never really devoted the time under the old system, I think rank 3 was as high as I ever got.  I was exited for the new system, but the meta was just so damn boring for me so I couldn’t focus, playing just wasn’t fun.  Fast forward to last month I found myself down to 4 bonus stars.  I found a deck I really enjoy right now so I’ve climbed up a bit, as it stands right now I should have 6 stars at the end of the month but I’m hoping to get back up to Diamond 10 and get back to 8 stars.  So while you’re right it’s not so bad with 11 bonus stars, getting to that point is quite a bit of work and effort and possibly a multi month endeavor depending on your play time.

i can't hit legend i'm just really bad at this game sorry guys i wish i had skill

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from FortyDust >>

 But the skill needed hasn't changed. I'm not convinced the time investment was so much greater in the old days that any determined, reasonably capable player would have failed to hit legend because the clock ran out. Thus, determination is the most important factor, with skill and time in a tie for distant second.

 Ok, so I do disagree that the skill required hasn't changed. I stated my reasoning as to why that would be the case in my initial reply to you (greater consistency required in the old system since there were no massive star bonuses or win streaks). If you have some sort of counterargument entailing why that would not be the case I'd be interested to hear it. With that said, I think it's pretty hard to appraise the value of a relatively esoteric concept like determination against more quantifiable things like time and skill. All are important to hit legend, I have a hard time accepting the premise that determination, abstract as it is, is exponentially more pertinent to the achievement than time or skill. I don't see much use in deliberating over that though, that's pretty philosophical and virtually impossible to definitively establish one way or the other. We can agree that determination is important, as are time and skill. I would be interested to hear specifically why you think, in terms of skill, the climb to legend now is exactly the same as it was in the old days.

 You are not remembering the old system accurately. There were win streaks, and your starting rank at the beginning of a season was determined by your highest rank in the previous season, which is equivalent to the bonus stars of the current system.

Quote from user-100163881 >>

Quote from sanchogrande >>

Why would this be something to complain about?

 since the grind in legend in my opinion isnt as fun as the rank climbing. I dont feel like playing after hitting legend:(

 So stop playing meta decks? Thats where your true boredom comes from. 

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from FortyDust >>

 But the skill needed hasn't changed. I'm not convinced the time investment was so much greater in the old days that any determined, reasonably capable player would have failed to hit legend because the clock ran out. Thus, determination is the most important factor, with skill and time in a tie for distant second.

 Ok, so I do disagree that the skill required hasn't changed. I stated my reasoning as to why that would be the case in my initial reply to you (greater consistency required in the old system since there were no massive star bonuses or win streaks). If you have some sort of counterargument entailing why that would not be the case I'd be interested to hear it. With that said, I think it's pretty hard to appraise the value of a relatively esoteric concept like determination against more quantifiable things like time and skill. All are important to hit legend, I have a hard time accepting the premise that determination, abstract as it is, is exponentially more pertinent to the achievement than time or skill. I don't see much use in deliberating over that though, that's pretty philosophical and virtually impossible to definitively establish one way or the other. We can agree that determination is important, as are time and skill. I would be interested to hear specifically why you think, in terms of skill, the climb to legend now is exactly the same as it was in the old days.

 You are not remembering the old system accurately. There were win streaks, and your starting rank at the beginning of a season was determined by your highest rank in the previous season, which is equivalent to the bonus stars of the current system.

 Apologies if I wasn't very clear in my response. I wasn't saying that there weren't win streaks in the old system, I was saying there weren't massive win streaks like there are now (i.e. 22 stars for winning a single match), and unequivocally there were no win streaks or star bonuses past rank 5. If I recall correctly you would only get 1 bonus star if you won 3 plus matches in a row for each win, so you could only progress by 2 stars a win, and never past rank 5. That's 26 games where you need a greater than 50 percent WR to progress, as opposed to 16 past Diamond 5 now, and you can carry a star bonus past Diamond 5. And in the old old system everyone got reset to rank 15 every month regardless of where they placed the season prior. I think it's also worth noting that ranked floors are far easier to come by in the new system: 10 in total as opposed to 5 in the old system. All of which is to say, the new system is easier to progress through (provided you have a decent star bonus of course) and more forgiving towards losses and inconsistency. As such, it is reasonable to make the case that, notwithstanding the enormous changes in HS's meta and how the game is played since the new system was put it place (which is another conversation in itself), greater skill was required to attain legend in the old system than is now required in the new. 

Quote from Aegis24 >>

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from Aegis24 >>

Legend is only easy to hit if you devote a lot of time to the game.  With the way the bonus star system works you have to play a lot every month or your bonus stars disappear.  I found that out the hard way

 As I recall the 11 star bonus is purely for… top 1000 legend?  Correct me if I’m wrong here.  When the new ranking system came out I started with 8 bonus stars.  I never really devoted the time under the old system, I think rank 3 was as high as I ever got.  I was exited for the new system, but the meta was just so damn boring for me so I couldn’t focus, playing just wasn’t fun.  Fast forward to last month I found myself down to 4 bonus stars.  I found a deck I really enjoy right now so I’ve climbed up a bit, as it stands right now I should have 6 stars at the end of the month but I’m hoping to get back up to Diamond 10 and get back to 8 stars.  So while you’re right it’s not so bad with 11 bonus stars, getting to that point is quite a bit of work and effort and possibly a multi month endeavor depending on your play time.

 Opinions vary on where exactly the 11 star bonus begins. I've heard top 400-200. Generally I think 400 is a safe bet. So yeah, most players are not able to take advantage of it. As far as how hard it is to achieve, I think that really depends on a variety of factors. How much time do you have, what decks are you playing, how good are you at the game, how lucky have you gotten with matchups, draws, RNG, how well can you resist tilt, etc. It definitely will take time and effort to achieve high legend. With that said, I'm still of the opinion that even with the 10 and 9 star bonuses, legend can be easier than it was back in the day. Primarily bc those get you up to or close to D5 and from that point the grind to legend is not as bad as it used to be. I definitely would not characterize it as "easy" if you don't have the 11 star bonus, but it's easier than it was in the old system. But I hear where you're coming from. If you took a break or you're new to the game or if you're just having a hard time breaking into the higher ranks, building up a high star bonus can be very grindy. 

The 11x bonus is given to the top10% (or top15%) or players in terms of MMR. This means that (a) some players who didn't even reach legend (due to not playing enough games) can still get/keep it and (b) in terms of end-of-month legend rank it varies a lot based on both the format and the server. In EU a top2000-2500 finish in standard and a top500-550 in wild generally give you the 11x

you can hit legend with 50.000001% win rate you just have to win 16 games more then you lose so you could win 1016 games and lose 1000 games and hit legend