I don’t think that Blizzard is actually rigging the match making system. However, I’ve never seen an analysis that attempted to prove that they aren’t. Scrutiny like that is necessary to keep businesses that profit from games of chance honest. The opportunity to rig the game exists, and only independent statistical audit can confirm that isn’t happening. To my knowledge, casinos in the United States have to submit to far more regulation than game companies like Blizzard, even though the Computer gaming industry is far more profitable on the whole.
I think it’s incumbent on organizations that gather Hearthstone data, like Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay, to study this question frequently, no tinfoil hat required.
I don’t think that Blizzard is actually rigging the match making system. However, I’ve never seen an analysis that attempted to prove that they aren’t. Scrutiny like that is necessary to keep businesses that profit from games of chance honest. The opportunity to rig the game exists, and only independent statistical audit can confirm that isn’t happening. To my knowledge, casinos in the United States have to submit to far more regulation than game companies like Blizzard, even though the Computer gaming industry is far more profitable on the whole.
I think it’s incumbent on organizations that gather Hearthstone data, like Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay, to study this question frequently, no tinfoil hat required.
No. The burden of proof lies with people who claim Blizzard is not telling the truth or is hiding information. If no rigging is proved, it is a very solid proof no rigging takes place.
I have said this before, but the community was actually able to prove there was a pity timer for legendaries, and it was later confirmed by Blizzard. It is not impossible to do.
But that's exactly what I'm asking for: evidence. You can't simply trust Blizzard to police itself. I don't think Blizzard is rigging the system right now, but that doesn't mean that they can't, or that they won't. Only regular independent audit can ensure they remain honest.
I don’t think that Blizzard is actually rigging the match making system. However, I’ve never seen an analysis that attempted to prove that they aren’t. Scrutiny like that is necessary to keep businesses that profit from games of chance honest. The opportunity to rig the game exists, and only independent statistical audit can confirm that isn’t happening. To my knowledge, casinos in the United States have to submit to far more regulation than game companies like Blizzard, even though the Computer gaming industry is far more profitable on the whole.
I think it’s incumbent on organizations that gather Hearthstone data, like Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay, to study this question frequently, no tinfoil hat required.
Thats correct, also while online poker has become problematic in the US lately pokerstars is required to have their RNG algorithms checked on a yearly basis to keep their license in half of the planets countries. Same goes for every similar serious platform obviously.
Similar rules do not apply to any gaming company anywhere afaik.
Lol it sucks because at legend time to time it matches me against diamond 10 and platinum players each time I am like wtf poor guy was probably on winstrike
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
Here's the problem with the matchmaking system in my opinion, from diamond 5-legend, you're playing against legend players. If I have to beat legend players time and time again, then the system is telling me I'm the same level as legend. Once you reach legend, to climb the ranks on that side, shouldn't you have to beat other legends? I constantly see streamers showing off their decks or gameplay and are matched against diamond ranked players. Are there that few at legend rank that they can't be in a separate pool? I'd be fine with losing to guys within the same tier regardless of what deck they're playing if it means someone beat me and climbed higher, not they beat me and either gained nothing, or got a couple ranks higher than they already were in legend.
Been complaining about exactly the same thing but the “ it’s all random” “ the earth is flat” believers try to prove it’s not the case. not by providing facts but by sticking to the you lose so you complain argument...
it happens all the time - i played 50 games with hl mage the other day and only played against 1 murloc pally. When I switched to hl hunter, suddenly murloc pally decks became the most popular opponent deck.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
So referring to the concept of MMR as rigged would be a big stretch. In that case, every sport (e and regular) would be ‘rigged’. It is perfectly normal to pit opponents of similar skill sets against each other.
Basketball has different leagues and divisions. Pitting an NBA team against random college team is not fun for anyone, and setting up systems to avoid skewed matches like that is not only not rigged, it is common sense.
Within gaming, there is an opportunity to make these adjustments to opponents you are pitted against more dynamically using MMR, which again, nothing to do with being rigged, simply matched with people around your current skill level.
I play hundreds of games with many different decks, and gone legend in both standard and wild this season, and looking over my records, I see no indication of the system being ‘rigged’.
As others have said though, if someone can provide actual and reproducible evidence that the system does more than simply match you according to MMR skill set, I’ll be more than happy to re-evaluate my stance. I have never seen anything remote of evidence, much less reproducible, it’s always only heresy and personal bias.
Aiming for 50% winrate means aiming for fair matches, which is a perfectly sensible goal to have.
Here's the problem with the matchmaking system in my opinion, from diamond 5-legend, you're playing against legend players. If I have to beat legend players time and time again, then the system is telling me I'm the same level as legend. Once you reach legend, to climb the ranks on that side, shouldn't you have to beat other legends? I constantly see streamers showing off their decks or gameplay and are matched against diamond ranked players. Are there that few at legend rank that they can't be in a separate pool? I'd be fine with losing to guys within the same tier regardless of what deck they're playing if it means someone beat me and climbed higher, not they beat me and either gained nothing, or got a couple ranks higher than they already were in legend.
I understand how they may seem frustrating, but I think it makes more sense than the old system. In the old system, you may have clawed your way to rank 5 with hundreds of games, barely above 50% winrate. Then you get pitted by others at same rank, but your opponent may be a pro player rushing his way to legend, so far outskilling you, that’s not very fair, so I think simply looking at ladder rank is not good enough.
Then comes MMR with the new system. Rank no longer matters, only your current skill level. Is it really important if you are at the same ladder rank floor? Or does it matter more you are evenly matched skill wise? I would say the latter. Your opponent at legend may not be strictly better than you, but may just have put in more time and effort this season
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
So referring to the concept of MMR as rigged would be a big stretch. In that case, every sport (e and regular) would be ‘rigged’. It is perfectly normal to pit opponents of similar skill sets against each other.
Basketball has different leagues and divisions. Pitting an NBA team against random college team is not fun for anyone, and setting up systems to avoid skewed matches like that is not only not rigged, it is common sense.
Within gaming, there is an opportunity to make these adjustments to opponents you are pitted against more dynamically using MMR, which again, nothing to do with being rigged, simply matched with people around your current skill level.
I play hundreds of games with many different decks, and gone legend in both standard and wild this season, and looking over my records, I see no indication of the system being ‘rigged’.
As others have said though, if someone can provide actual and reproducible evidence that the system does more than simply match you according to MMR skill set, I’ll be more than happy to re-evaluate my stance. I have never seen anything remote of evidence, much less reproducible, it’s always only heresy and personal bias.
Aiming for 50% winrate means aiming for fair matches, which is a perfectly sensible goal to have.
Your current skill level is your rank. Being a Diamond, you should be paired against other diamonds. Blizzard is actively messing up with the pairings to give you opponents out of your scope just to make sure, you won't either win or lose too much.
Comparing it to sports is just... It's like playing a cup in football and after a round, when you are to move on and face another opponent, they'd, instead giving you an opponent, which you should face according to the standings, switched it around and gave you other team. Just for the sake of "good experience".
Also no, you aren't always facing opponents at your level in sports. You are facing opponent you should face in accordance to the standings. There are plenty of examples of underdogs which were paired against giants, just because a cup ladder dictated it. But for the sake of "we want everybody to win some", Blizzard would pair against someone within their reach.
Ranks are supposed to be a measure of your skill. Even a pop up at the end of the season used to say something like "you were in top 4% of players". But ultimately nowadays it means nothing, because you can be paired against someone 4 floors higher or lower than you.
This approach is limiting. Having a winning streak doesn't mean you became better than you were an hour ago. Yet they want to ensure your winning streak will end soon. It's active interference into players' win ratios.
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
You, like many others, completely misunderstand this system. It isn't a Blizzard thing, it isn't some conspiracy to keep people in lower ranks, it's a system used in a lot of games and is designed to match peole with similar win rates to them.
I've read and watched them as well as other game developers discuss this very thing and its really simple:
To keep games competitive and therefore more fun, the system will keep peole with similar win rates together. This is not the same as rigging it for you to lose. You see it in professional sports with promotion and relegation systems, nobody wants to play in a league or division that is absolutely dominated by one person/team. The more you are matched with people of a similar wine are, the more likely you are to find your ability level and then settle into having regular, competitive games.
If you are stuck at diamond 1 and keep bouncing around between D1 and D5 then that is simply your ability level. The better players in that group may make legend occasionally but their win rate will inevitably then drop because they are amongst a higher caliber of player and this will result in them getting better and maintaining or progressing from that level or being relegated back/not making legend consistently.
Its exactly how many other game systems work, fifa ultimate team puts you against peole with similar win rates and again, that forum has cried conspiracy for years because peole say they end up at a similar number of wins each week. Yes, because you have an ability level and you consistently achieve that.
If cant get past diamond 1, I accept that, if I get to legend it won't be something I do easily every month. That isn't rigging the game, it's the exact opposite. It's making sure I find and maintain a level that I am good enough for. I don't get paired up with peole who just installed the game and I don't meet anybody preparing for a tournament.
The difference between am ELO/MMR system and rigging the game to make sure people lose is massive. You must surely be able to see the difference?
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
You, like many others, completely misunderstand this system. It isn't a Blizzard thing, it isn't some conspiracy to keep people in lower ranks, it's a system used in a lot of games and is designed to match peole with similar win rates to them.
I've read and watched them as well as other game developers discuss this very thing and its really simple:
To keep games competitive and therefore more fun, the system will keep peole with similar win rates together. This is not the same as rigging it for you to lose. You see it in professional sports with promotion and relegation systems, nobody wants to play in a league or division that is absolutely dominated by one person/team. The more you are matched with people of a similar wine are, the more likely you are to find your ability level and then settle into having regular, competitive games.
If you are stuck at diamond 1 and keep bouncing around between D1 and D5 then that is simply your ability level. The better players in that group may make legend occasionally but their win rate will inevitably then drop because they are amongst a higher caliber of player and this will result in them getting better and maintaining or progressing from that level or being relegated back/not making legend consistently.
Its exactly how many other game systems work, fifa ultimate team puts you against peole with similar win rates and again, that forum has cried conspiracy for years because peole say they end up at a similar number of wins each week. Yes, because you have an ability level and you consistently achieve that.
If cant get past diamond 1, I accept that, if I get to legend it won't be something I do easily every month. That isn't rigging the game, it's the exact opposite. It's making sure I find and maintain a level that I am good enough for. I don't get paired up with peole who just installed the game and I don't meet anybody preparing for a tournament.
The difference between am ELO/MMR system and rigging the game to make sure people lose is massive. You must surely be able to see the difference?
You misunderstood my point. Not for a single second I was complaining about the system. My initial point was that Blizzard is actively interfering into the match making system and they admitted it. That's all. I am not gonna participate in a discussion, whether it is good, fair or whatever. I have my personal opinion, but since this topic was abused so many times, I am not gonna waste my time on it.
Also I find it funny you seem to think that I was talking only about winning streaks, while it works both ways and after a loosing streak you will get some "noob" (my apologies), just to bounce back and not quit the game. This is equally important as ending winning streaks, because ultimately it is just a kind of predatory practice to keep you playing. "Please, don't quit the game, here, see? You crushed the guy, keep playing and you'll start winning some!". But as I said, I am not gonna complain about it for a single second. I was just stating the point that there is some extent of interference in MMR and it has evidence.
What I am against are arbitrary statements. People say nothing is rigged and people say everything is rigged. Both sides are laughably wrong. Packs are rigged in favor of the players (pity counter). Isn't it an interference? Ultimately in other games it's all up to odds and without Blizzard rigging the packs, you could open 220 and get 0 Legendaries. Is it good for the players? Sure, it is! But it is an interference into a system nevertheless, which in theory should work purely on odds. And the main example that Blizzard can and does mess up with some seemingly random mechanics.
Nothing is black or white, most things are gray. Same goes for Blizzard "rigging" the game. They do in some respects and it's a fact. Whether it is good or bad, I am not gonna discuss.
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
You, like many others, completely misunderstand this system. It isn't a Blizzard thing, it isn't some conspiracy to keep people in lower ranks, it's a system used in a lot of games and is designed to match peole with similar win rates to them.
I've read and watched them as well as other game developers discuss this very thing and its really simple:
To keep games competitive and therefore more fun, the system will keep peole with similar win rates together. This is not the same as rigging it for you to lose. You see it in professional sports with promotion and relegation systems, nobody wants to play in a league or division that is absolutely dominated by one person/team. The more you are matched with people of a similar wine are, the more likely you are to find your ability level and then settle into having regular, competitive games.
If you are stuck at diamond 1 and keep bouncing around between D1 and D5 then that is simply your ability level. The better players in that group may make legend occasionally but their win rate will inevitably then drop because they are amongst a higher caliber of player and this will result in them getting better and maintaining or progressing from that level or being relegated back/not making legend consistently.
Its exactly how many other game systems work, fifa ultimate team puts you against peole with similar win rates and again, that forum has cried conspiracy for years because peole say they end up at a similar number of wins each week. Yes, because you have an ability level and you consistently achieve that.
If cant get past diamond 1, I accept that, if I get to legend it won't be something I do easily every month. That isn't rigging the game, it's the exact opposite. It's making sure I find and maintain a level that I am good enough for. I don't get paired up with peole who just installed the game and I don't meet anybody preparing for a tournament.
The difference between am ELO/MMR system and rigging the game to make sure people lose is massive. You must surely be able to see the difference?
You misunderstood my point. Not for a single second I was complaining about the system. My initial point was that Blizzard is actively interfering into the match making system and they admitted it. That's all. I am not gonna participate in a discussion, whether it is good, fair or whatever. I have my personal opinion, but since this topic was abused so many times, I am not gonna waste my time on it.
Also I find it funny you seem to think that I was talking only about winning streaks, while it works both ways and after a loosing streak you will get some "noob" (my apologies), just to bounce back and not quit the game. This is equally important as ending winning streaks, because ultimately it is just a kind of predatory practice to keep you playing. "Please, don't quit the game, here, see? You crushed the guy, keep playing and you'll start winning some!". But as I said, I am not gonna complain about it for a single second. I was just stating the point that there is some extent of interference in MMR and it has evidence.
What I am against are arbitrary statements. People say nothing is rigged and people say everything is rigged. Both sides are laughably wrong. Packs are rigged in favor of the players (pity counter). Isn't it an interference? Ultimately in other games it's all up to odds and without Blizzard rigging the packs, you could open 220 and get 0 Legendaries. Is it good for the players? Sure, it is! But it is an interference into a system nevertheless, which in theory should work purely on odds. And the main example that Blizzard can and does mess up with some seemingly random mechanics.
Nothing is black or white, most things are gray. Same goes for Blizzard "rigging" the game. They do in some respects and it's a fact. Whether it is good or bad, I am not gonna discuss.
I wasn't directly speaking at you regarding the complaints, more addressing it on the whole. You know the difference though in what people mean. The system making sure similar ability levels are matched is not the same thing as making sure people are getting favourable or unfavourable match ups and certainly not a system specifically designed to put you against a counter terrorism deck. That's what is being addressed.
Whilst an ELO/MMO system is fixed in a sense, acting like there isn't a clear line between that and the rigging that things like this thread are complaining about isn't helping. Peole are clearly confused by what they mean when they discuss fixing it to remain competitive and continuing to refer to an more system as rigging, whilst I suppose it isnt technically incorrect, doesn't help the situation because the same word, with context, results I'm completely different things.
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I don’t think that Blizzard is actually rigging the match making system. However, I’ve never seen an analysis that attempted to prove that they aren’t. Scrutiny like that is necessary to keep businesses that profit from games of chance honest. The opportunity to rig the game exists, and only independent statistical audit can confirm that isn’t happening. To my knowledge, casinos in the United States have to submit to far more regulation than game companies like Blizzard, even though the Computer gaming industry is far more profitable on the whole.
I think it’s incumbent on organizations that gather Hearthstone data, like Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay, to study this question frequently, no tinfoil hat required.
[deck]Deck ID or Code[/deck]
No. The burden of proof lies with people who claim Blizzard is not telling the truth or is hiding information. If no rigging is proved, it is a very solid proof no rigging takes place.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
I have said this before, but the community was actually able to prove there was a pity timer for legendaries, and it was later confirmed by Blizzard. It is not impossible to do.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
But that's exactly what I'm asking for: evidence. You can't simply trust Blizzard to police itself. I don't think Blizzard is rigging the system right now, but that doesn't mean that they can't, or that they won't. Only regular independent audit can ensure they remain honest.
Thats correct, also while online poker has become problematic in the US lately pokerstars is required to have their RNG algorithms checked on a yearly basis to keep their license in half of the planets countries. Same goes for every similar serious platform obviously.
Similar rules do not apply to any gaming company anywhere afaik.
lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't.
Lol it sucks because at legend time to time it matches me against diamond 10 and platinum players each time I am like wtf poor guy was probably on winstrike
In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....
Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.
Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.
The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.
I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.
I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind.
The game is rigged in some respect and Blizzard has admitted it. Sole existence of the MMR is an interference into match making. Their intention is to make all people lose some and win some. Because of this after a loosing streak you will get paired with someone you should have easy time with. Same goes for win streaks - you will get harder opponents the more you win.
This is nothing particularly worrying, but nevertheless, they are messing up with your match-ups and your win ratio. Ultimately you - as we all know - being, let's say low Diamond, are equally probable to fight a Legend player or a Gold player, depending on how both you and they performed in a few recent games..
Now I don't say there's anything els to it, I by no means support claiming the game is rigged more than it is without any evidence. I am just saying there is a certain level of interference, which is pretty much unquestionable.
Here's the problem with the matchmaking system in my opinion, from diamond 5-legend, you're playing against legend players. If I have to beat legend players time and time again, then the system is telling me I'm the same level as legend. Once you reach legend, to climb the ranks on that side, shouldn't you have to beat other legends? I constantly see streamers showing off their decks or gameplay and are matched against diamond ranked players. Are there that few at legend rank that they can't be in a separate pool? I'd be fine with losing to guys within the same tier regardless of what deck they're playing if it means someone beat me and climbed higher, not they beat me and either gained nothing, or got a couple ranks higher than they already were in legend.
Been complaining about exactly the same thing but the “ it’s all random” “ the earth is flat” believers try to prove it’s not the case. not by providing facts but by sticking to the you lose so you complain argument...
it happens all the time - i played 50 games with hl mage the other day and only played against 1 murloc pally. When I switched to hl hunter, suddenly murloc pally decks became the most popular opponent deck.
So referring to the concept of MMR as rigged would be a big stretch. In that case, every sport (e and regular) would be ‘rigged’. It is perfectly normal to pit opponents of similar skill sets against each other.
Basketball has different leagues and divisions. Pitting an NBA team against random college team is not fun for anyone, and setting up systems to avoid skewed matches like that is not only not rigged, it is common sense.
Within gaming, there is an opportunity to make these adjustments to opponents you are pitted against more dynamically using MMR, which again, nothing to do with being rigged, simply matched with people around your current skill level.
I play hundreds of games with many different decks, and gone legend in both standard and wild this season, and looking over my records, I see no indication of the system being ‘rigged’.
As others have said though, if someone can provide actual and reproducible evidence that the system does more than simply match you according to MMR skill set, I’ll be more than happy to re-evaluate my stance. I have never seen anything remote of evidence, much less reproducible, it’s always only heresy and personal bias.
Aiming for 50% winrate means aiming for fair matches, which is a perfectly sensible goal to have.
I understand how they may seem frustrating, but I think it makes more sense than the old system. In the old system, you may have clawed your way to rank 5 with hundreds of games, barely above 50% winrate. Then you get pitted by others at same rank, but your opponent may be a pro player rushing his way to legend, so far outskilling you, that’s not very fair, so I think simply looking at ladder rank is not good enough.
Then comes MMR with the new system. Rank no longer matters, only your current skill level. Is it really important if you are at the same ladder rank floor? Or does it matter more you are evenly matched skill wise? I would say the latter. Your opponent at legend may not be strictly better than you, but may just have put in more time and effort this season
Your current skill level is your rank. Being a Diamond, you should be paired against other diamonds. Blizzard is actively messing up with the pairings to give you opponents out of your scope just to make sure, you won't either win or lose too much.
Comparing it to sports is just... It's like playing a cup in football and after a round, when you are to move on and face another opponent, they'd, instead giving you an opponent, which you should face according to the standings, switched it around and gave you other team. Just for the sake of "good experience".
Also no, you aren't always facing opponents at your level in sports. You are facing opponent you should face in accordance to the standings. There are plenty of examples of underdogs which were paired against giants, just because a cup ladder dictated it. But for the sake of "we want everybody to win some", Blizzard would pair against someone within their reach.
Ranks are supposed to be a measure of your skill. Even a pop up at the end of the season used to say something like "you were in top 4% of players". But ultimately nowadays it means nothing, because you can be paired against someone 4 floors higher or lower than you.
This approach is limiting. Having a winning streak doesn't mean you became better than you were an hour ago. Yet they want to ensure your winning streak will end soon. It's active interference into players' win ratios.
I've had the exact same thing happen to me! Whenever I hit rank 1 with a winstreak I suddenly get all the bad matchups in a row.
Hmmmm, that’s strange because it happens less frequently to very good players.
You, like many others, completely misunderstand this system. It isn't a Blizzard thing, it isn't some conspiracy to keep people in lower ranks, it's a system used in a lot of games and is designed to match peole with similar win rates to them.
I've read and watched them as well as other game developers discuss this very thing and its really simple:
To keep games competitive and therefore more fun, the system will keep peole with similar win rates together. This is not the same as rigging it for you to lose. You see it in professional sports with promotion and relegation systems, nobody wants to play in a league or division that is absolutely dominated by one person/team. The more you are matched with people of a similar wine are, the more likely you are to find your ability level and then settle into having regular, competitive games.
If you are stuck at diamond 1 and keep bouncing around between D1 and D5 then that is simply your ability level. The better players in that group may make legend occasionally but their win rate will inevitably then drop because they are amongst a higher caliber of player and this will result in them getting better and maintaining or progressing from that level or being relegated back/not making legend consistently.
Its exactly how many other game systems work, fifa ultimate team puts you against peole with similar win rates and again, that forum has cried conspiracy for years because peole say they end up at a similar number of wins each week. Yes, because you have an ability level and you consistently achieve that.
If cant get past diamond 1, I accept that, if I get to legend it won't be something I do easily every month. That isn't rigging the game, it's the exact opposite. It's making sure I find and maintain a level that I am good enough for. I don't get paired up with peole who just installed the game and I don't meet anybody preparing for a tournament.
The difference between am ELO/MMR system and rigging the game to make sure people lose is massive. You must surely be able to see the difference?
You misunderstood my point. Not for a single second I was complaining about the system. My initial point was that Blizzard is actively interfering into the match making system and they admitted it. That's all. I am not gonna participate in a discussion, whether it is good, fair or whatever. I have my personal opinion, but since this topic was abused so many times, I am not gonna waste my time on it.
Also I find it funny you seem to think that I was talking only about winning streaks, while it works both ways and after a loosing streak you will get some "noob" (my apologies), just to bounce back and not quit the game. This is equally important as ending winning streaks, because ultimately it is just a kind of predatory practice to keep you playing. "Please, don't quit the game, here, see? You crushed the guy, keep playing and you'll start winning some!". But as I said, I am not gonna complain about it for a single second. I was just stating the point that there is some extent of interference in MMR and it has evidence.
What I am against are arbitrary statements. People say nothing is rigged and people say everything is rigged. Both sides are laughably wrong. Packs are rigged in favor of the players (pity counter). Isn't it an interference? Ultimately in other games it's all up to odds and without Blizzard rigging the packs, you could open 220 and get 0 Legendaries. Is it good for the players? Sure, it is! But it is an interference into a system nevertheless, which in theory should work purely on odds. And the main example that Blizzard can and does mess up with some seemingly random mechanics.
Nothing is black or white, most things are gray. Same goes for Blizzard "rigging" the game. They do in some respects and it's a fact. Whether it is good or bad, I am not gonna discuss.
I wasn't directly speaking at you regarding the complaints, more addressing it on the whole. You know the difference though in what people mean. The system making sure similar ability levels are matched is not the same thing as making sure people are getting favourable or unfavourable match ups and certainly not a system specifically designed to put you against a counter terrorism deck. That's what is being addressed.
Whilst an ELO/MMO system is fixed in a sense, acting like there isn't a clear line between that and the rigging that things like this thread are complaining about isn't helping. Peole are clearly confused by what they mean when they discuss fixing it to remain competitive and continuing to refer to an more system as rigging, whilst I suppose it isnt technically incorrect, doesn't help the situation because the same word, with context, results I'm completely different things.