do you see any tier 1 highlander deck that runs lackeys? I don't see any.
How did you conclude to Highlander here? Dragonqueen can easily be a sick late game option outside of Highlander decks (see Galakrond WL)
That because it is really very late game especially you play against control decks it is well deserved punishment against opponent who tries to outsource you also probability of discovering alex is pretty low
There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.
Lackeys work in combo decks.
This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.
That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.
Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins?
People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.
If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter
If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue
If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.
The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.
I don’t know what you are smoking if you think lackeys are primarily for combo decks. They help rogue activate combo cards but I don’t think they are utilized in a one turn kill or mecathun combo. Maybe for stalling
Variations of warlock including zoo and mecathun have utilized lackeys. Shaman utilizes lackeys for the quest and sometimes they are just good enough to run evil totem in a control / Highlander deck. They’ve been used in a variety of decks
It’s not even the odds of generating a powerhouse like Alex is the problem with Rogue. Every galakrond card for them generates lackeys. They have a 3 mana 1/4 that generates lackeys. If they have double battlecry cards then they get even more. When Galakrond comes down they get a ton of free cards and don’t forget that utilize tog. From that point they hero power almost every turn. Even though the odds are bad it’s for that specific lackey and Dragonqueen, it’s not like what they generate sucks. The rush lackey and 2 damage help support their board or deal with an opponents. Same with the taunt. If they get the spell lackey that’s very strong as well. And we shouldn’t ignore the fact that even if they don’t get dragonqueen, which is probably the jackpot in Highlander rogue, they have a damn good shot at getting another powerhouse dragon.
if you look at the dragon cards currently playable in standard, a majority are extremely powerful to discover. Deathwing Dragonlord, Ysera Unleashed, malygos aspect, twin tyrant, evasive worm, crazed netherwing, aeon reaver, skeletal dragon, etc etc. And then you have to consider dragon cards that generate other dragons like azure explorer. I know what you will say based on the above, if they discover some of those they will need a dragon in hand right? Yeah, but it’s not difficult to have atleast discovered one from dragon lackey at that point or if Highlander they might have Alex in hand. Even if they do find one of those and don’t have a dragon in hand, it’s likely that the options from the discover will be solid too. Really the worst card they could discover is like faerie dragon.
if you don’t believe me boot up the client and search “dragon” in standard cards.
There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.
Lackeys work in combo decks.
This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.
That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.
Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins?
People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.
If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter
If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue
If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.
The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.
I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.
Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having.
You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys.
A lot of discover effects that can be busted. But sure as hell playing rogue or warrior i wouldn't pick dragon queen as that only works for highlander decks
When you are a Rogue against control you cycle all deck, so it would be a very likely pick.
I feel that the lackeys that are tempo based on well balanced but the lackeys that discover cards just allow aggro/tempo decks to outvalue control decks with ease (especially the dragon lackey)
There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.
Lackeys work in combo decks.
This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.
That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.
Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins?
People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.
If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter
If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue
If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.
The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.
I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.
Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having.
You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys.
Sorry you're absolutely correct. I meant that Tempo decks tend to fall in with combo decks in the rock<paper<scissors threshold, in that they are supposed to out tempo control, but tend to get run down by aggro.
There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.
Lackeys work in combo decks.
This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.
That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.
Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins?
People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.
If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter
If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue
If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.
The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.
I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.
Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having.
You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys.
Tempo decks are about delaying your opponent until you gain enough power to strike.
Secret galakrond is a combo deck you try to win through many combinations. in the secret galakrond rogue there are currently three major combo sets. Galakrond set, secret set and togwaggle set those sets also have great synergy with each other that is what makes the deck really good yeah it is a combo deck
I think that all the Galakronds and the lackey generators will be removed this year to the hall of fame, it would be very boring and tedious to see them for a long time. The lackeys are fine but they are a problem in rogue, also in quest shaman but currently nobody plays shaman so it is fine.
I hope that some lackey generators and all the galakronds will leave in the next expansion.
Galakarond in Rogue is the problem, the lackeys are genrally not game breaking in the other clases that make use of them. You probably wouldn't even notice them in rogue without the insane mana cheating card draw. That shit is busted.
this
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"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
Tempo decks are about delaying your opponent until you gain enough power to strike.
Secret galakrond is a combo deck you try to win through many combinations. in the secret galakrond rogue there are currently three major combo sets. Galakrond set, secret set and togwaggle set those sets also have great synergy with each other that is what makes the deck really good yeah it is a combo deck
So Freeze mage was a tempo deck and Tempo mage was a combo deck for you? :) Tempo decks are about tempo efficiency, not about delaying your opponent. Combo decks are about surviving until you can play specific combo to win the game on spot. Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck.
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English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
Lackeys can't be nerfed, only removed. The whole point of this mechanics is that you randomly get 2 mana worth of stuff for 1 mana. If they will cost 2 mana, they will be garbage.
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English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
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That because it is really very late game especially you play against control decks it is well deserved punishment against opponent who tries to outsource you also probability of discovering alex is pretty low
The issue is that i think its not what the Lackeys do, its the random ones you get
Like if you can only get 1 at a time for example, you can't get Kobold Lackey twice in a row
Then i think it would be a bit more balance
I don't think lackeys are a problem, except maybe the draconic lackey. Even then it wouldn't be so bad if Dragonqueen Alex wasn't such an awful card.
How to make ppl happy about it:
Lackeys can no longer discover "no duplicate" cards.
all cards should be nerfed. Just your class that you play should be buffed so you can win every single game.
I don’t know what you are smoking if you think lackeys are primarily for combo decks. They help rogue activate combo cards but I don’t think they are utilized in a one turn kill or mecathun combo. Maybe for stalling
Variations of warlock including zoo and mecathun have utilized lackeys. Shaman utilizes lackeys for the quest and sometimes they are just good enough to run evil totem in a control / Highlander deck. They’ve been used in a variety of decks
It’s not even the odds of generating a powerhouse like Alex is the problem with Rogue. Every galakrond card for them generates lackeys. They have a 3 mana 1/4 that generates lackeys. If they have double battlecry cards then they get even more. When Galakrond comes down they get a ton of free cards and don’t forget that utilize tog. From that point they hero power almost every turn. Even though the odds are bad it’s for that specific lackey and Dragonqueen, it’s not like what they generate sucks. The rush lackey and 2 damage help support their board or deal with an opponents. Same with the taunt. If they get the spell lackey that’s very strong as well. And we shouldn’t ignore the fact that even if they don’t get dragonqueen, which is probably the jackpot in Highlander rogue, they have a damn good shot at getting another powerhouse dragon.
if you look at the dragon cards currently playable in standard, a majority are extremely powerful to discover. Deathwing Dragonlord, Ysera Unleashed, malygos aspect, twin tyrant, evasive worm, crazed netherwing, aeon reaver, skeletal dragon, etc etc. And then you have to consider dragon cards that generate other dragons like azure explorer. I know what you will say based on the above, if they discover some of those they will need a dragon in hand right? Yeah, but it’s not difficult to have atleast discovered one from dragon lackey at that point or if Highlander they might have Alex in hand. Even if they do find one of those and don’t have a dragon in hand, it’s likely that the options from the discover will be solid too. Really the worst card they could discover is like faerie dragon.
if you don’t believe me boot up the client and search “dragon” in standard cards.
I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.
Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having.
You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys.
Draconic Lackey giving a ysera unleashed or alextraza or other dragon which discover dragons . Just removing discover from lackeys is good solution .
When you are a Rogue against control you cycle all deck, so it would be a very likely pick.
I rather see Edvin going to HoF
Det är bättre med en fågel i hand, än tiger i träd!
I feel that the lackeys that are tempo based on well balanced but the lackeys that discover cards just allow aggro/tempo decks to outvalue control decks with ease (especially the dragon lackey)
Sorry you're absolutely correct. I meant that Tempo decks tend to fall in with combo decks in the rock<paper<scissors threshold, in that they are supposed to out tempo control, but tend to get run down by aggro.
Tempo decks are about delaying your opponent until you gain enough power to strike.
Secret galakrond is a combo deck you try to win through many combinations. in the secret galakrond rogue there are currently three major combo sets. Galakrond set, secret set and togwaggle set those sets also have great synergy with each other that is what makes the deck really good yeah it is a combo deck
The discover mechanic is a bit to strong, I'd have them change to add a random spell/demon to your hand instead. The other lackeys are fine.
I think that all the Galakronds and the lackey generators will be removed this year to the hall of fame, it would be very boring and tedious to see them for a long time. The lackeys are fine but they are a problem in rogue, also in quest shaman but currently nobody plays shaman so it is fine.
I hope that some lackey generators and all the galakronds will leave in the next expansion.
The lackey that deals 2 damage is disgustingly broken.
Please stop with these nerfs. Learn to play.
this
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
So Freeze mage was a tempo deck and Tempo mage was a combo deck for you? :)
Tempo decks are about tempo efficiency, not about delaying your opponent. Combo decks are about surviving until you can play specific combo to win the game on spot. Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck.
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
Lackeys can't be nerfed, only removed. The whole point of this mechanics is that you randomly get 2 mana worth of stuff for 1 mana. If they will cost 2 mana, they will be garbage.
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.