Holy shit, you seriously have some sort of comprehension disorder.
THE BOTTOM LINE IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX AFTER BLIZZARD MADE IT SO YOU COULDNT DO THAT BECAUSE THEY SAID IT WAS TOO OVERPOWERED. WHY AM I SAYING THE NERF DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR PHILOSOPHY?!
BECAUSE YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE WAY THE NERF TARGETED IT AS!
Jesus. H. Tapdancing. Christ.
You've led this around in a circular argument for well over a page now. Just stop while you're ahead. You're wasting your time, you're wasting my time, you even agree with me on this point so why you keep arguing over pointless semantics on how getting Alex off of Alex is problematic is freaking beyond me.
Holy shit, you seriously have some sort of comprehension disorder.
THE BOTTOM LINE IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX AFTER BLIZZARD MADE IT SO YOU COULDNT DO THAT BECAUSE THEY SAID IT WAS TOO OVERPOWERED. WHY AM I SAYING THE NERF DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR PHILOSOPHY?!
BECAUSE YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE WAY THE NERF TARGETED IT AS!
Jesus. H. Tapdancing. Christ.
Oh my god.
You´re a lost case. I´m done trying to explain a very simple mechanic for you.
Yeah. I'm a lost cause when you're the one who doesn't understand that what I'm talking about is that if Blizzard nerfs our ability to get Alex off of Alex?
Then they should look at the other ways that we can STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED.
You're the moron who can't get this extremely simple concept, but I'm the lost cause.
I think the rogue deck is REALLY strong but in my opinion it's ok since there are clear counterplays. There are decks which have really high win rate against gala secret rogue. It has some obvious weaknesses being board clear and lack of healing. This means it just dies to aggressive strategies.
That's simply not true.
First of all, some healing is present in the deck - the 5 armor on the Galakrond hero card and Kronxx deal5-heal5 option. It may not seem much, but it's VERY significant against aggro, especially at turn 7-8 when aggro has hopelessly lost the board and plan to finish with burn from hand.
Secondly, a lot of extra healing can be discovered via spell/dragon lackey, Hanar pulling an Ice Barrier or some other defensive secret, and random lifesteal/heal minions being generated (ie Karthut from Pharaoh Cat). There are so many options for generating some form of heal that it'd be surprising for them to NOT generate at least one per game when needed.
Last but not least, Rogue can and often DOES out-tempo aggro decks in the early game. And AOE is absolutely not one of their weaknesses. They don't care about those 1/1s that already generated value for them, and also because they easily always have at least one minion outside any early/midgame AOE damage range. This is not an aggro swarm deck that instaconcedes at the first AOE clearing, they can go the distance.
The issue is exactly that there are NOT clear counterplays. Galarogue is a complete jack-of-all-trades, which is the #1 reason why it's a tier1 deck right now.
Yeah. I'm a lost cause when you're the one who doesn't understand that what I'm talking about is that if Blizzard nerfs our ability to get Alex off of Alex?
Then they should look at the other ways that we can STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED.
You're the moron who can't get this extremely simple concept, but I'm the lost cause.
Funny how that works!
I'd rather not get to deep into this hot mess of a back-and-forth - but you do realize there's a huge difference between getting a second DQA off her battlecry (0-mana, can be chained for even more 0-mana dragons immediately), and getting her off say Azure Explorer or Emerald Explorer (full cost) that you got from her battlecry? Which in my experience was the point of the outcry before she was nerfed.
Yes, of course I realize the difference, which numbnuts here clearly didn't.
But whether you play her for 0 mana or 9 mana, A Dragonqueen Alex is still a Dragonqueen Alex. A LOT of free value that can potentially discover itself again, before and AFTER the nerf that was done, and that's the problem.
I don't disagree, and I possibly wouldn't be against them nerfing her again by making her non-discoverable. I've lost plenty of games against Rogues after they played their second or third DQA - even in decks that weren't highlander to begin with. But I get the sense that you're implying that this (the massive value of getting multiple DQA's) was the purpose of nerfing her.
Which, as I pointed out, I don't believe was the case at the time.
I don't disagree, and I possibly wouldn't be against them nerfing her again by making her non-discoverable. I've lost plenty of games against Rogues after they played their second or third DQA - even in decks that weren't highlander to begin with. But I get the sense that you're implying that this (the massive value of getting multiple DQA's) was the purpose of nerfing her.
Which, as I pointed out, I don't believe was the case at the time.
I agree its a very strong play when that happens. Dragonqueen can (theoretically) be as strong as she is because should only be played once but since rogue has easy ways to manipulate this AND the fact that you can discover new ones with explorers makes the highlander rogue such a powerhouse in the late game.
The problem with "banning" her from the discover pool after she´s played once is a good idea in theory to get the power level of highlander rogue down but that requires the game to manipulating the discover pool while in-game. Manipulating the game rules while already in a game has not EVER been on a card in hearthstone and there´s 0% chance they´ll change the very fundamentals of the game mechanics like this for this one card.
This combo (to re-discover her with an explorer) is not NEARLY as broken though as it was pre-nerf when you generated her again and made it cost 0 mana in which you could fill an entire board full of powerful, big-stated minions from just 9 mana and ONE card.
Blizzard never intended to change the very fundamentals of the discover mechanics with the nerf, they just wanted away from the big swing turns when she generated herself and above combo ensued.
This isnt news for anyone but Berserkerdude though
Rogue currently has the most annoying overpowered decks around. The value generation is ridiculous! The way rogue just throws cards around the board without even paying attention to resources is more than frustrating. Only way to counter rogue is either super agro decks or OTK decks. And this is not sure depending on draws. I almost never talk shit about classes but i am more than done with current rogues!!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
I have a particular hate for decks that can play five or more cards per turn and still manage to end said turn with 7 or more cards. They rope because they have too. I mean how fun is it to be around 1 minute seeing ur opponent play cards nonstop?
Plus how can u play around potential cards if all they get is random shit and for zero cost too?
Sure DH is just op and broken but at least they are honest about it. Rogue just scam you the whole match. Mage can do it once or twice per match and thats it. Rogue is alot worse
Just want to make sure I have it right here... We have a problem with Rogue, Mage and Shaman... Obviousou Demon Hunter and Priest... Constant complaints about Face Hunter, and now Murloc Paladin is on that list.. Rogue is the only reason people arent currently crying about Druid...
Rogues are too strong at the moment only because of the amount of value they can generate, and how quickly they generate it, when compared to other classes. They also have incredibly strong removal tools, such as Flikk and Blackjack Stunner, and high tempo, must remove cards like Edwin. They are unique in that their sap cards get around both taunt and deathrattle, which allows them lethal in certain circumstances where other classes couldn't find it.
Tl;dr they have insane tempo turns whilst simultaneously hindering your board state, and can bypass a lot of defensive tools that other classes have.
Rogues are too strong at the moment only because of the amount of value they can generate, and how quickly they generate it, when compared to other classes. They also have incredibly strong removal tools, such as Flikk and Blackjack Stunner, and high tempo, must remove cards like Edwin. They are unique in that their sap cards get around both taunt and deathrattle, which allows them lethal in certain circumstances where other classes couldn't find it.
Tl;dr they have insane tempo turns whilst simultaneously hindering your board state, and can bypass a lot of defensive tools that other classes have.
Rogue is frustrating since of infinite value and never running out of gas, but the one thing about rogue is that they get countered by some decks and countered hard (face hunter is the main one that comes to mind, but they also can't deal with any aggro deck which goes wide like murloc paladin or zoolock. Further, a control orientated bomb warrior also does well vs rogue as does most druid decks and most mage decks). Rogue has many many counters which stops it being so dominating in the meta. Compare this to aggro DH where the only counter is enrage warrior. Since that deck or its variants like egg warrior are really hard to play, warrior isn't a dominant force on the ladder allowing aggro DH to enjoy at the worst an even matchup vs facehunter. Rogue's counters such as face hunter also tend to be quite easy to play.
I can see why some people are frustrated by rogue and I get frustrated sometimes too, but there are multiple decks you can play to have a favourable matchup against it.
Holy shit, you seriously have some sort of comprehension disorder.
THE BOTTOM LINE IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX AFTER BLIZZARD MADE IT SO YOU COULDNT DO THAT BECAUSE THEY SAID IT WAS TOO OVERPOWERED. WHY AM I SAYING THE NERF DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR PHILOSOPHY?!
BECAUSE YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE WAY THE NERF TARGETED IT AS!
Jesus. H. Tapdancing. Christ.
You've led this around in a circular argument for well over a page now. Just stop while you're ahead. You're wasting your time, you're wasting my time, you even agree with me on this point so why you keep arguing over pointless semantics on how getting Alex off of Alex is problematic is freaking beyond me.
Oh my god.
You´re a lost case. I´m done trying to explain a very simple mechanic for you.
Have a nice day
Yeah. I'm a lost cause when you're the one who doesn't understand that what I'm talking about is that if Blizzard nerfs our ability to get Alex off of Alex?
Then they should look at the other ways that we can STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED.
You're the moron who can't get this extremely simple concept, but I'm the lost cause.
Funny how that works!
That's simply not true.
First of all, some healing is present in the deck - the 5 armor on the Galakrond hero card and Kronxx deal5-heal5 option. It may not seem much, but it's VERY significant against aggro, especially at turn 7-8 when aggro has hopelessly lost the board and plan to finish with burn from hand.
Secondly, a lot of extra healing can be discovered via spell/dragon lackey, Hanar pulling an Ice Barrier or some other defensive secret, and random lifesteal/heal minions being generated (ie Karthut from Pharaoh Cat). There are so many options for generating some form of heal that it'd be surprising for them to NOT generate at least one per game when needed.
Last but not least, Rogue can and often DOES out-tempo aggro decks in the early game. And AOE is absolutely not one of their weaknesses. They don't care about those 1/1s that already generated value for them, and also because they easily always have at least one minion outside any early/midgame AOE damage range. This is not an aggro swarm deck that instaconcedes at the first AOE clearing, they can go the distance.
The issue is exactly that there are NOT clear counterplays. Galarogue is a complete jack-of-all-trades, which is the #1 reason why it's a tier1 deck right now.
Just play dragon hunter with a decent curve and the oh so op deck collapses quickly.
I'd rather not get to deep into this hot mess of a back-and-forth - but you do realize there's a huge difference between getting a second DQA off her battlecry (0-mana, can be chained for even more 0-mana dragons immediately), and getting her off say Azure Explorer or Emerald Explorer (full cost) that you got from her battlecry? Which in my experience was the point of the outcry before she was nerfed.
Yes, of course I realize the difference, which numbnuts here clearly didn't.
But whether you play her for 0 mana or 9 mana, A Dragonqueen Alex is still a Dragonqueen Alex. A LOT of free value that can potentially discover itself again, before and AFTER the nerf that was done, and that's the problem.
I don't disagree, and I possibly wouldn't be against them nerfing her again by making her non-discoverable. I've lost plenty of games against Rogues after they played their second or third DQA - even in decks that weren't highlander to begin with. But I get the sense that you're implying that this (the massive value of getting multiple DQA's) was the purpose of nerfing her.
Which, as I pointed out, I don't believe was the case at the time.
Then I mean, you're just wrong.
DQ Alex getting itself is a problem at 0 mana.
It's a problem at 9 mana.
There's no way out of this one.
I agree. Like I said. But again, that wasn't the point of my post.
I agree its a very strong play when that happens. Dragonqueen can (theoretically) be as strong as she is because should only be played once but since rogue has easy ways to manipulate this AND the fact that you can discover new ones with explorers makes the highlander rogue such a powerhouse in the late game.
The problem with "banning" her from the discover pool after she´s played once is a good idea in theory to get the power level of highlander rogue down but that requires the game to manipulating the discover pool while in-game. Manipulating the game rules while already in a game has not EVER been on a card in hearthstone and there´s 0% chance they´ll change the very fundamentals of the game mechanics like this for this one card.
This combo (to re-discover her with an explorer) is not NEARLY as broken though as it was pre-nerf when you generated her again and made it cost 0 mana in which you could fill an entire board full of powerful, big-stated minions from just 9 mana and ONE card.
Blizzard never intended to change the very fundamentals of the discover mechanics with the nerf, they just wanted away from the big swing turns when she generated herself and above combo ensued.
This isnt news for anyone but Berserkerdude though
What you think about Galakrond rogue?
I LOVE IT!
- Doubters do not achieve; skeptics do not contribute; cynics do not create -
Rogue currently has the most annoying overpowered decks around. The value generation is ridiculous! The way rogue just throws cards around the board without even paying attention to resources is more than frustrating. Only way to counter rogue is either super agro decks or OTK decks. And this is not sure depending on draws. I almost never talk shit about classes but i am more than done with current rogues!!!
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
The lackey the give you 2mana random minion works fine, so why don't get random dragon and spell from the others lackeys? Will be more balanced.
I have a particular hate for decks that can play five or more cards per turn and still manage to end said turn with 7 or more cards. They rope because they have too. I mean how fun is it to be around 1 minute seeing ur opponent play cards nonstop?
Plus how can u play around potential cards if all they get is random shit and for zero cost too?
Sure DH is just op and broken but at least they are honest about it. Rogue just scam you the whole match. Mage can do it once or twice per match and thats it. Rogue is alot worse
Just want to make sure I have it right here... We have a problem with Rogue, Mage and Shaman... Obviousou Demon Hunter and Priest... Constant complaints about Face Hunter, and now Murloc Paladin is on that list.. Rogue is the only reason people arent currently crying about Druid...
So.... Warrior is the only "fair" class?
I never rope or rage quit it usually the opponent that does that. Cause thinking is hard. For mentally challenged
Rogues are too strong at the moment only because of the amount of value they can generate, and how quickly they generate it, when compared to other classes. They also have incredibly strong removal tools, such as Flikk and Blackjack Stunner, and high tempo, must remove cards like Edwin. They are unique in that their sap cards get around both taunt and deathrattle, which allows them lethal in certain circumstances where other classes couldn't find it.
Tl;dr they have insane tempo turns whilst simultaneously hindering your board state, and can bypass a lot of defensive tools that other classes have.
Rogue is frustrating since of infinite value and never running out of gas, but the one thing about rogue is that they get countered by some decks and countered hard (face hunter is the main one that comes to mind, but they also can't deal with any aggro deck which goes wide like murloc paladin or zoolock. Further, a control orientated bomb warrior also does well vs rogue as does most druid decks and most mage decks). Rogue has many many counters which stops it being so dominating in the meta. Compare this to aggro DH where the only counter is enrage warrior. Since that deck or its variants like egg warrior are really hard to play, warrior isn't a dominant force on the ladder allowing aggro DH to enjoy at the worst an even matchup vs facehunter. Rogue's counters such as face hunter also tend to be quite easy to play.
I can see why some people are frustrated by rogue and I get frustrated sometimes too, but there are multiple decks you can play to have a favourable matchup against it.
As long as DH and Hunter still dominate the ladder, Galakrond Rogue is just a fun deck.