I do think that's another card that should be looked at, besides Hanar. Isn't a 1 mana sap on a guy enough? Does it really need the freezing trap penalty, too?
Can't we at least make it (1) so 10 drops aren't completely eliminated from play when it's not like you did something silly like attack into a green secret with one?
Rogue is really frustrating to play against. Everything about the class is RNG-based and the deciding factor on who wins is more on the RNG of the game rather than actual plays from the player. Rogue is so strong because of the infinite values from the lackeys. Lackeys are not good for the game and I cant wait for them to rotate out.
for those reasons you listed i love playing rogue. so much games feel different because of the unique styles (edwin<3, lackeyspam (i do admit spell & Dragon are problematic), gala, secrets, …) and cards you can generate.
I understand that's the appeal of the deck, and I won't even deny that there's some skill involved in adapting to what you got. But it's waaay too frustrating to play against.
I'd be ok with some rng if the lackey pool was smaller and more consistent (let's say you could only get the 2-dmg / taunt / rush ones). But the pool is what, 7 different lackeys? With more than half of them generating even MORE rng - spell, dragon, transform, random 2-drop... The variance is too high, and it feels terrible to play against high-rolls.
Especially considering even something simple like a 2-dmg one in the right scenarios (ie early game against a 3/2) could already be an high-roll. Add Bamboozle, Pharaoh Cat and Dragon's Hoard to the mix and sometimes the games can be ridiculous.
Wasn't that the whole point of nerfing Dragonqueen Alex so she couldn't rediscover herself?
Her explorers really shouldn't be able to re-discover her. That can still happen. It's almost like that change never even happened. And when it does, it's stupid. Even if you do have to pay another 9 mana for it this time.
Plus I know any deck could theoretically do that, but with the end game clown fiesta which is 10,000 lackeys with Galakrond, the rogues chance is greatly increased of finding something game winning than any other deck.
I definitely think you're onto something, card generation is a very real problem in the meta right now because so much of the stuff that didn't age well that nobody was using (Witchwood/Boomsday/Rastakhan all fell off really hard as time passed, or were never good in the first place) rotated out, it's much easier to find the stuff that can just completely break games.
I wouldn't say it's just Alex, either. There's definitely cards that you really just shouldn't be able to pull out of thin air.
I put forward in a thread a while ago that some cards should have an 'undiscoverable' tag, maybe even all legendaries. Cards like DQA should be a one big play a game deal. Would make the cards much more exciting to use, make you think about when you actually play it more and would make far fewer games feel bad.
Wasn't that the whole point of nerfing Dragonqueen Alex so she couldn't rediscover herself?
Her explorers really shouldn't be able to re-discover her. That can still happen. It's almost like that change never even happened. And when it does, it's stupid. Even if you do have to pay another 9 mana for it this time.
The only thing they did was so that she cant generate herself as a 0 mana dragon. You can still get a 0 mana explorer and discover a new 9 mana version. The Draconic lackey should never have been printed. Lackeys otherwise doesnt have as much power late game, even the discover a spell one can rarely generate any good late game spells for rogue, but draconic lackey can almost always discover a strong late game dragon.
"The only thing they did was so that she cant generate herself as a 0 mana dragon. You can still get a 0 mana explorer and discover a new 9 mana version."
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The nerf really didn't do what it was supposed to.
I put forward in a thread a while ago that some cards should have an 'undiscoverable' tag, maybe even all legendaries. Cards like DQA should be a one big play a game deal. Would make the cards much more exciting to use, make you think about when you actually play it more and would make far fewer games feel bad.
I don't think ALL legendaries is reasonable because, I mean... there's a lot of bad legendary minions in Hearthstone.
There are some bad bad legendaries especially in the classic set, but I would argue that if you're discovering one odds are you'll get an op one. If it's add a random legendary like Brightwing does then thats a different matter. It is probably the discover mechanic in general that is OP.
I think the rogue deck is REALLY strong but in my opinion it's ok since there are clear counterplays. There are decks which have really high win rate against gala secret rogue. It has some obvious weaknesses being board clear and lack of healing. This means it just dies to aggressive strategies.
"The only thing they did was so that she cant generate herself as a 0 mana dragon. You can still get a 0 mana explorer and discover a new 9 mana version."
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The nerf really didn't do what it was supposed to.
The nerf was targeted only so that she couldnt generate herself as a 0 mana minion so you could play it back to back.
To not be able to discover a full costed new version was never the reason for the nerf. Its working as intended.
Alex should not be able to generate itself. And even after the nerf, it can still do that, although more indirectly and less efficiently, it still can.
Alex should not be able to generate itself. And even after the nerf, it can still do that, although more indirectly and less efficiently, it still can.
That's the crux of what I'm saying.
What is it you do not understand? It is working exactly like Blizzard intended it to.
Alex doesnt generate herself. She can generate explorers that can then discover her. This is not what the "nerf" was targeting. Everything is working just like its supposed to, you are just for some reason not understanding the difference.
Maybe there should be a mechanic where a card's battlecry can only be used once per game? Maybe even give it a new mechanic title like 'war cry' or something. You can still discover DQA but it's just an 8/8 do nothing after playing it once. All spitballing though because in reality Blizz are never going to change it. /sadface
Oh my fucking god dude. Are you actually this stupid or are you trolling me?
I FUCKING GET THAT THE NERF WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
BUT YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX BECAUSE OF THE EXPLORERS. AND THEY NERFED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
IT THEREFORE FOLLOWS THAT THE NERF DIDN'T FOLLOW BLIZZARDS INTENTS, EVEN IF YOU GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX LESS FREQUENTLY NOW BECAUSE OF IT.
Like... am I on crazy pills today, or what? You're leading us around in a completely circular discussion!
Ok so you want a NEW nerf then?
Because you keep saying: "The nerf isnt doing what it was supposed to!" when thats exactly what it is doing. Also you cant seem to understand Blizzards intention. They never intended her to not beeing discovered again by generated explorers. I honestly cant fathom why this is so hard for you to understand.
I do think that's another card that should be looked at, besides Hanar. Isn't a 1 mana sap on a guy enough? Does it really need the freezing trap penalty, too?
Can't we at least make it (1) so 10 drops aren't completely eliminated from play when it's not like you did something silly like attack into a green secret with one?
Rogue is really frustrating to play against. Everything about the class is RNG-based and the deciding factor on who wins is more on the RNG of the game rather than actual plays from the player. Rogue is so strong because of the infinite values from the lackeys. Lackeys are not good for the game and I cant wait for them to rotate out.
I understand that's the appeal of the deck, and I won't even deny that there's some skill involved in adapting to what you got. But it's waaay too frustrating to play against.
I'd be ok with some rng if the lackey pool was smaller and more consistent (let's say you could only get the 2-dmg / taunt / rush ones). But the pool is what, 7 different lackeys? With more than half of them generating even MORE rng - spell, dragon, transform, random 2-drop... The variance is too high, and it feels terrible to play against high-rolls.
Especially considering even something simple like a 2-dmg one in the right scenarios (ie early game against a 3/2) could already be an high-roll. Add Bamboozle, Pharaoh Cat and Dragon's Hoard to the mix and sometimes the games can be ridiculous.
Got to fatigue with a gala rogue yesterday and he got 2 DQ Alex's with 4 free dragons (obviously) inc a Kalecgos. Felt bad man.
Wasn't that the whole point of nerfing Dragonqueen Alex so she couldn't rediscover herself?
Her explorers really shouldn't be able to re-discover her. That can still happen. It's almost like that change never even happened. And when it does, it's stupid. Even if you do have to pay another 9 mana for it this time.
Got 1 from a lackey and 1 from the primordial explorer dqa discovered. DQ Alex should just be undiscoverable full stop by any card.
Plus I know any deck could theoretically do that, but with the end game clown fiesta which is 10,000 lackeys with Galakrond, the rogues chance is greatly increased of finding something game winning than any other deck.
I definitely think you're onto something, card generation is a very real problem in the meta right now because so much of the stuff that didn't age well that nobody was using (Witchwood/Boomsday/Rastakhan all fell off really hard as time passed, or were never good in the first place) rotated out, it's much easier to find the stuff that can just completely break games.
I wouldn't say it's just Alex, either. There's definitely cards that you really just shouldn't be able to pull out of thin air.
I put forward in a thread a while ago that some cards should have an 'undiscoverable' tag, maybe even all legendaries. Cards like DQA should be a one big play a game deal. Would make the cards much more exciting to use, make you think about when you actually play it more and would make far fewer games feel bad.
The only thing they did was so that she cant generate herself as a 0 mana dragon. You can still get a 0 mana explorer and discover a new 9 mana version. The Draconic lackey should never have been printed. Lackeys otherwise doesnt have as much power late game, even the discover a spell one can rarely generate any good late game spells for rogue, but draconic lackey can almost always discover a strong late game dragon.
"The only thing they did was so that she cant generate herself as a 0 mana dragon. You can still get a 0 mana explorer and discover a new 9 mana version."
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The nerf really didn't do what it was supposed to.
I don't think ALL legendaries is reasonable because, I mean... there's a lot of bad legendary minions in Hearthstone.
Some? Absolutely.
There are some bad bad legendaries especially in the classic set, but I would argue that if you're discovering one odds are you'll get an op one. If it's add a random legendary like Brightwing does then thats a different matter. It is probably the discover mechanic in general that is OP.
I think the rogue deck is REALLY strong but in my opinion it's ok since there are clear counterplays. There are decks which have really high win rate against gala secret rogue. It has some obvious weaknesses being board clear and lack of healing. This means it just dies to aggressive strategies.
The nerf was targeted only so that she couldnt generate herself as a 0 mana minion so you could play it back to back.
To not be able to discover a full costed new version was never the reason for the nerf. Its working as intended.
Dude. You're not getting it.
Alex should not be able to generate itself. And even after the nerf, it can still do that, although more indirectly and less efficiently, it still can.
That's the crux of what I'm saying.
What is it you do not understand? It is working exactly like Blizzard intended it to.
Alex doesnt generate herself. She can generate explorers that can then discover her. This is not what the "nerf" was targeting. Everything is working just like its supposed to, you are just for some reason not understanding the difference.
Oh my fucking god dude. Are you actually this stupid or are you trolling me?
I FUCKING GET THAT THE NERF WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
BUT YOU CAN STILL GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX BECAUSE OF THE EXPLORERS. AND THEY NERFED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
IT THEREFORE FOLLOWS THAT THE NERF DIDN'T FOLLOW BLIZZARDS INTENTS, EVEN IF YOU GET ALEX OFF OF ALEX LESS FREQUENTLY NOW BECAUSE OF IT.
Like... am I on crazy pills today, or what? You're leading us around in a completely circular discussion!
Maybe there should be a mechanic where a card's battlecry can only be used once per game? Maybe even give it a new mechanic title like 'war cry' or something. You can still discover DQA but it's just an 8/8 do nothing after playing it once. All spitballing though because in reality Blizz are never going to change it. /sadface
Ok so you want a NEW nerf then?
Because you keep saying: "The nerf isnt doing what it was supposed to!" when thats exactly what it is doing. Also you cant seem to understand Blizzards intention. They never intended her to not beeing discovered again by generated explorers. I honestly cant fathom why this is so hard for you to understand.
This is the exact wording from the patch notes:
"Dragonqueen Alexstrasza – Her Battlecry can no longer generate another copy of herself."
Is this really so hard to understand? Her BATTLECRY can no longer generate another copy of herself.
She just doesnt work like YOU want her to. Big difference