blizzard is nerfing Sac Pact in the most brutal way, only your own minions, while DH is already about 70% WR and every desperate player is playing it.
this nerf is gonna push fun out of the game really bad, assuming tempo decks are the most fun decks, and everyone is gonna play either DH or a control that Counters DH.
i think this dualism is gonna leave nothing fun in the game
I won a lot of games as Gala Warlock without using Sac on enemy minions. I think it is still a nice option with all the 1/1 demons from invoking your Galakrond. Yes it is a nerf, but it was way too powerful, so it's sensible.
Lol, how exactly was Pact making the game better? It was a one card for just one class, which with or without it has a good match-up against DH. Tempo DH wasn't even running premium targets for it (Priestess and Antaen), only smaller minions.
Meta was Galakrond Lock vs DH with Priest being somewhere there below them, and it will most likely stay the same way.
Can't count on a single card from a single class to counter DH. Demon Hunter is getting some nerfs as well, and likely will be again in the future. Once DH is brought in line, you really won't feel the pain of Sac Pact being friendly-only.
Warlock was playing Sac Pact before DH was a class to give themselves a free 5 health by eating one of their 1/1's. My assumption is that they will continue to play the card after the nerf is in place.
Sac Pac is essentially the wrong way to keep to Demon Hunter in check - for all the reasons listed in this thread. I suspect that Team 5's goal is to tinker in ways that are a bit more wholistic over the next couple of weeks.
Sac Pact is not making it better, its just one card and cant do much.
we know how broken DH is already and no tempo deck can be played other than Gala Rogue(sometimes) , that card was a tiny window for other maybe they top deck Zeph and get Sac Pact and stay alive, Blizzard is sealing that tiny window.
compare this to Altruist nerf, while everone was complaining about the OP effect (AOE goes face and only clears enemy minions) they made it 4 mana and a buff for its attack, this is not the kind of nerf an OP class should get,
again compare the situation to warlock's 5/5 dragon, 3 to all characters, and its a staple in Gala warlock.
blizzard is nerfing Sac Pact in the most brutal way, only your own minions, while DH is already about 70% WR and every desperate player is playing it.
this nerf is gonna push fun out of the game really bad, assuming tempo decks are the most fun decks, and everyone is gonna play either DH or a control that Counters DH.
i think this dualism is gonna leave nothing fun in the game
id like to know your thoughts on this
where do you get 70% from its not even closed to be true
Sac pact deserved a nerf. Whenever it was in the meta before it made warlock mirrors really swingy. And now with DH in the game its kind of stupid for warlock to have the only ,,tech,, card against it. If DH is still too strong...Blizz should just nerf them more.
If the only reason DH is balanced is sac pact...then DH is too strong against classes other than warlock. Just nerf DH until they are balanced with no tech sac pact and everyone is happy.
That said...these DH nerfs are not enough in my opinion. Glaivebound Adept and Altruis the Outcast are barely nerfs...and Battlefiend while significant is not enough to bring DH back in line with other classes. Especially with Sacrificial Pact no longer countering them. I just hope I am wrong or Blizz nerfs them again soon.
Sac pact was just a card that was not working as inteded, that's why it's getting nerfed, the flavor of that card is precisely that, you losing something on your board to get 5 health and it's balanced around the fact that it costs 0 mana. But now as DH and almos every other class has demons then sac pact is too unfair. DH got 3 cards nerfed (Technically 3 if you count felwing), it'll be slower, but still probably good, that should be the mentality with nerfs, not like Shaman the last expansion, which went from being the most OP class by a mile to not seeing play for the rest of the expansion.
I am actually amazed by the amount of reasonable people in this thread. Sac pact was so obviously misprinted and they just never changed it because the only class running demons was warlock itself. The flavor of the card even implies that a friendly demon makes a sacrifice to heal its master.
Other demon hunter nerfs are probably going to be necessary, but now that there is a class that runs demons other than warlock itself, it absolutely must be changed.
blizzard is nerfing Sac Pact in the most brutal way, only your own minions, while DH is already about 70% WR and every desperate player is playing it.
this nerf is gonna push fun out of the game really bad, assuming tempo decks are the most fun decks, and everyone is gonna play either DH or a control that Counters DH.
i think this dualism is gonna leave nothing fun in the game
id like to know your thoughts on this
Actually I have HSreplay Premium.
Tempo DH is "just" 54.18 % on Diamond 5 - Diamond 1,
The real problem is..
Warlock is only 51.63 % and everything else (!) falls below 50%
On Legend Rank the sun shines a bit brighter...
Tempo DH is 57.45 % , Galakrond Warlock 54,45 %, Highlander Hunter 54,18 % and the rest slightly behind that.
blizzard is nerfing Sac Pact in the most brutal way, only your own minions, while DH is already about 70% WR and every desperate player is playing it.
this nerf is gonna push fun out of the game really bad, assuming tempo decks are the most fun decks, and everyone is gonna play either DH or a control that Counters DH.
i think this dualism is gonna leave nothing fun in the game
id like to know your thoughts on this
Actually I have HSreplay Premium.
Tempo DH is "just" 54.18 % on Diamond 5 - Diamond 1,
The real problem is..
Warlock is only 51.63 % and everything else (!) falls below 50%
On Legend Rank the sun shines a bit brighter...
Tempo DH is 57.45 % , Galakrond Warlock 54,45 %, Highlander Hunter 54,18 % and the rest slightly behind that.
People on Legend often don't care about rating, unless you are going for the absolute top. I for sure wouldn't. And I know many players who start memeing or at least playing the decks they simply like, even if they are not good. Last few ranks before Legend are the best indicator.
Blizzard is nerfing Sacrificial Pact but, other than that, the entire balance patch is basically just a 2nd wave of nerfs to DH. Battlefiend in particular is being nerfed into the ground and Altruis the Outcast is having his power level checked pretty considerably. Additionally, Frenzied Felwing will now die to many board clears and minion trades that it previously survived. The end result should be a reduction in the overall win % of DH with an increase to the level of fun to be had by playing DH and playing against DH. Let's be honest, Sacrificial Pact was definitely holding DH in check, but there was absolutely nothing fun about it. It was just a stupidly unfair card in the current meta. Cards that punish you for doing something that you can't really avoid doing shouldn't exist.
I am honestly growing sick of some people being constantly negative. My brother was so pissy yesterday (about the same issue) that I had to tell him to shut up.
DH is getting nerfed for the second time in three weeks. And it's been clearly communicated, and backed up by recent action, that the developers will nerf it further should it continue to be too strong. Try to relax for once. Just wait a few days to see if the nerfs are gonna have an effect or not. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Have some tea.
Even if not, the game is not "balanced" or "fair" or "fun" either, if Warlock keeps Demon Hunter in check by having an obscenely powerful class card to counter them, resulting in a very polarizing matchup, and the other 8 classes can only hope for shifting playrates. With one more class having Demons as their main tribe, there was no way to keep Sac Pact the way it was, and it was already a quirky card. Regardless, Demon Hunter needs more than just one bad matchup, or one bad class to run into. And we'll see whether that's what we get.
I can't see DH anymore either, but it's more the playrate that bothers me. Yet still, I am actually glad they are not going full Warsong on the Basic and Initial set, but try to do moderate changes here and there to bring DH to a reasonable but not trash level. Even if DH continues to be the strongest class, it's fine. It's allowed to be, as long as it is beatable by some decks.
It's not fun when Sacrificial Pact can remove high value card like Priestess of Fury for free - also Blizzard 2020, but two weeks later...
That's my biggest issue with this nerf. Warlock players were literally begging them for years to change that, but without any success. Now DH players were crying about very same thing and guess what? It worked and it took them like two weeks or so to change their minds! It's like spit to face for all Warlock players...
It's not fun when Sacrificial Pact can remove high value card like Priestess of Fury for free - also Blizzard 2020, but two weeks later...
That's my biggest issue with this nerf. Warlock players were literally begging them for years to change that, but without any success. Now DH players were crying about very same thing and guess what? It worked and it took them like two weeks or so to change their minds! It's like spit to face for all Warlock players...
I will be a devil's advocate - before DH no one was playing Pact with intention of destroying opponent's minions. Yes, it was played to some extent and sometimes in the mirror you could get some value destroying opponent's monster. But it wasn't an intended use. Moreover most of the time Pact actually destroyed anything significant on the opposing side, it was rather through random card generation.
And Blizard LOVES swings. Yogg, Zeph, DQ Alex, Box of Yogg, Galakrond, Reno... Blizzard thinks swings make this game exciting and they are happy seeing crazy compilations on youtube.
before DH no one was playing Pact with intention of destroying opponent's minions. Yes, it was played to some extent and sometimes in the mirror you could get some value destroying opponent's monster. But it wasn't an intended use.
So? what in your opinion should influence their balance decisions more: intention of use or actual effect of the particular card? I would say, that any card should be fixed when something is not right, regardless of its popularity or intention of use.
Battlefiend should have been reduced to one HEALTH, not one attack to start. Then, it could be killed and you didn't have to live in fear of a single one drop ending the game.
Frenzied Felwing? Oh no, it only has two health! BFD. What matters is that it can be dropped FOR FREE so easily.
Altruis? What a joke, it'll take up one more mana to play this card now, possibly resulting in one less damage to the opponent's minions/face in a single turn. Won't make a difference.
And now Warlocks can't even effectively keep the DH population in check.
It seems quite clear Blizzard wants to have their new toy played with as much as possible, state of the game be damned.
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blizzard is nerfing Sac Pact in the most brutal way, only your own minions, while DH is already about 70% WR and every desperate player is playing it.
this nerf is gonna push fun out of the game really bad, assuming tempo decks are the most fun decks, and everyone is gonna play either DH or a control that Counters DH.
i think this dualism is gonna leave nothing fun in the game
id like to know your thoughts on this
I won a lot of games as Gala Warlock without using Sac on enemy minions. I think it is still a nice option with all the 1/1 demons from invoking your Galakrond. Yes it is a nerf, but it was way too powerful, so it's sensible.
Lol, how exactly was Pact making the game better? It was a one card for just one class, which with or without it has a good match-up against DH. Tempo DH wasn't even running premium targets for it (Priestess and Antaen), only smaller minions.
Meta was Galakrond Lock vs DH with Priest being somewhere there below them, and it will most likely stay the same way.
Can't count on a single card from a single class to counter DH. Demon Hunter is getting some nerfs as well, and likely will be again in the future. Once DH is brought in line, you really won't feel the pain of Sac Pact being friendly-only.
Warlock was playing Sac Pact before DH was a class to give themselves a free 5 health by eating one of their 1/1's. My assumption is that they will continue to play the card after the nerf is in place.
Sac Pac is essentially the wrong way to keep to Demon Hunter in check - for all the reasons listed in this thread. I suspect that Team 5's goal is to tinker in ways that are a bit more wholistic over the next couple of weeks.
Sac Pact is not making it better, its just one card and cant do much.
we know how broken DH is already and no tempo deck can be played other than Gala Rogue(sometimes) , that card was a tiny window for other maybe they top deck Zeph and get Sac Pact and stay alive, Blizzard is sealing that tiny window.
compare this to Altruist nerf, while everone was complaining about the OP effect (AOE goes face and only clears enemy minions) they made it 4 mana and a buff for its attack, this is not the kind of nerf an OP class should get,
again compare the situation to warlock's 5/5 dragon, 3 to all characters, and its a staple in Gala warlock.
can i compete DH with Gala Rogue? no
can i compete DH with midrange evolve shaman ? no
midrange warlock? no
...
hearthstone? no thank you
this is an EZ decision tree for the meta
where do you get 70% from its not even closed to be true
hsreplay, metastats, vicious syndicate 65%+.
my own experience is even worse
Sac pact deserved a nerf. Whenever it was in the meta before it made warlock mirrors really swingy. And now with DH in the game its kind of stupid for warlock to have the only ,,tech,, card against it. If DH is still too strong...Blizz should just nerf them more.
If the only reason DH is balanced is sac pact...then DH is too strong against classes other than warlock. Just nerf DH until they are balanced with no tech sac pact and everyone is happy.
That said...these DH nerfs are not enough in my opinion. Glaivebound Adept and Altruis the Outcast are barely nerfs...and Battlefiend while significant is not enough to bring DH back in line with other classes. Especially with Sacrificial Pact no longer countering them. I just hope I am wrong or Blizz nerfs them again soon.
Sac pact was just a card that was not working as inteded, that's why it's getting nerfed, the flavor of that card is precisely that, you losing something on your board to get 5 health and it's balanced around the fact that it costs 0 mana. But now as DH and almos every other class has demons then sac pact is too unfair. DH got 3 cards nerfed (Technically 3 if you count felwing), it'll be slower, but still probably good, that should be the mentality with nerfs, not like Shaman the last expansion, which went from being the most OP class by a mile to not seeing play for the rest of the expansion.
I am actually amazed by the amount of reasonable people in this thread. Sac pact was so obviously misprinted and they just never changed it because the only class running demons was warlock itself. The flavor of the card even implies that a friendly demon makes a sacrifice to heal its master.
Other demon hunter nerfs are probably going to be necessary, but now that there is a class that runs demons other than warlock itself, it absolutely must be changed.
Actually I have HSreplay Premium.
Tempo DH is "just" 54.18 % on Diamond 5 - Diamond 1,
The real problem is..
Warlock is only 51.63 % and everything else (!) falls below 50%
On Legend Rank the sun shines a bit brighter...
Tempo DH is 57.45 % , Galakrond Warlock 54,45 %, Highlander Hunter 54,18 % and the rest slightly behind that.
People on Legend often don't care about rating, unless you are going for the absolute top. I for sure wouldn't. And I know many players who start memeing or at least playing the decks they simply like, even if they are not good. Last few ranks before Legend are the best indicator.
Blizzard is nerfing Sacrificial Pact but, other than that, the entire balance patch is basically just a 2nd wave of nerfs to DH. Battlefiend in particular is being nerfed into the ground and Altruis the Outcast is having his power level checked pretty considerably. Additionally, Frenzied Felwing will now die to many board clears and minion trades that it previously survived. The end result should be a reduction in the overall win % of DH with an increase to the level of fun to be had by playing DH and playing against DH. Let's be honest, Sacrificial Pact was definitely holding DH in check, but there was absolutely nothing fun about it. It was just a stupidly unfair card in the current meta. Cards that punish you for doing something that you can't really avoid doing shouldn't exist.
I am honestly growing sick of some people being constantly negative. My brother was so pissy yesterday (about the same issue) that I had to tell him to shut up.
DH is getting nerfed for the second time in three weeks. And it's been clearly communicated, and backed up by recent action, that the developers will nerf it further should it continue to be too strong. Try to relax for once. Just wait a few days to see if the nerfs are gonna have an effect or not. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Have some tea.
Even if not, the game is not "balanced" or "fair" or "fun" either, if Warlock keeps Demon Hunter in check by having an obscenely powerful class card to counter them, resulting in a very polarizing matchup, and the other 8 classes can only hope for shifting playrates. With one more class having Demons as their main tribe, there was no way to keep Sac Pact the way it was, and it was already a quirky card. Regardless, Demon Hunter needs more than just one bad matchup, or one bad class to run into. And we'll see whether that's what we get.
I can't see DH anymore either, but it's more the playrate that bothers me. Yet still, I am actually glad they are not going full Warsong on the Basic and Initial set, but try to do moderate changes here and there to bring DH to a reasonable but not trash level. Even if DH continues to be the strongest class, it's fine. It's allowed to be, as long as it is beatable by some decks.
It's OK that Sacrificial Pact can insta-win against Lord Jaraxxus and remove high value cards like Fel Lord Betrug for free - Blizzard 2020.
It's not fun when Sacrificial Pact can remove high value card like Priestess of Fury for free - also Blizzard 2020, but two weeks later...
That's my biggest issue with this nerf. Warlock players were literally begging them for years to change that, but without any success. Now DH players were crying about very same thing and guess what? It worked and it took them like two weeks or so to change their minds! It's like spit to face for all Warlock players...
I will be a devil's advocate - before DH no one was playing Pact with intention of destroying opponent's minions. Yes, it was played to some extent and sometimes in the mirror you could get some value destroying opponent's monster. But it wasn't an intended use. Moreover most of the time Pact actually destroyed anything significant on the opposing side, it was rather through random card generation.
And Blizard LOVES swings. Yogg, Zeph, DQ Alex, Box of Yogg, Galakrond, Reno... Blizzard thinks swings make this game exciting and they are happy seeing crazy compilations on youtube.
So? what in your opinion should influence their balance decisions more: intention of use or actual effect of the particular card? I would say, that any card should be fixed when something is not right, regardless of its popularity or intention of use.
It's really dumb given the status of the DH.
It will run rampant now.
The "nerfs" to DH are a complete joke.
Battlefiend should have been reduced to one HEALTH, not one attack to start. Then, it could be killed and you didn't have to live in fear of a single one drop ending the game.
Frenzied Felwing? Oh no, it only has two health! BFD. What matters is that it can be dropped FOR FREE so easily.
Altruis? What a joke, it'll take up one more mana to play this card now, possibly resulting in one less damage to the opponent's minions/face in a single turn. Won't make a difference.
And now Warlocks can't even effectively keep the DH population in check.
It seems quite clear Blizzard wants to have their new toy played with as much as possible, state of the game be damned.