Sac Pac cannot healing of an enemy doesn't matter. Sure, it's a nice bonus, but all you really care for, is destroying a minion for 0 mana. So you didn't nerf this card too.
Altruis is not nerfed too - you gave it one more mana and one more stat. Yes, it's more expensive, hence a bit harder to combo, but so what? Still good as hell.
Yeah, got it - you don't want to make the cards bad. But you didn't make them any less powerful and it's an entire idea of nerfs. Nerf isn't changing a card so it is more or less on a very simiar power level, just a bit different. It's literally making it worse. And yes, you can make a card worse and still playable at the same time - even Blizzard managed to do it wit some cards.
Albatross and Sac pact are not OP cards. Tech cards are supposed to be strong when a specific condition is met. Sac pact 0 mana kill your own minion heal 5 will never see play. Albatross 4 mana 4/3 will only see play if highlander/minionless decks are very strong in the meta.
There is also a meaningful difference between 3 4/3 and 4 3/5. 3 4/3 can get out early and smack your face. It is a nerf not a change.
Altruis is a legendary and should be a strong card. It has a lot more room to be nerfed than albatross and sac pact but shouldnt.
We can get back to this after the nerfs and albatross and sac pact arnt in any decks.
Sac Pac cannot healing of an enemy doesn't matter. Sure, it's a nice bonus, but all you really care for, is destroying a minion for 0 mana. So you didn't nerf this card too.
Altruis is not nerfed too - you gave it one more mana and one more stat. Yes, it's more expensive, hence a bit harder to combo, but so what? Still good as hell.
Yeah, got it - you don't want to make the cards bad. But you didn't make them any less powerful and it's an entire idea of nerfs. Nerf isn't changing a card so it is more or less on a very simiar power level, just a bit different. It's literally making it worse. And yes, you can make a card worse and still playable at the same time - even Blizzard managed to do it wit some cards.
Albatross and Sac pact are not OP cards. Tech cards are supposed to be strong when a specific condition is met. Sac pact 0 mana kill your own minion heal 5 will never see play. Albatross 4 mana 4/3 will only see play if highlander/minionless decks are very strong in the meta.
There is also a meaningful difference between 3 4/3 and 4 3/5. 3 4/3 can get out early and smack your face. It is a nerf not a change.
Altruis is a legendary and should be a strong card. It has a lot more room to be nerfed than albatross and sac pact but shouldnt.
We can get back to this after the nerfs and albatross and sac pact arnt in any decks.
Cube lock has been playing Sac Pact just to target their own minions. Same with Dreadsteed lock (yes, it was a thing once upon a time, even though not a top deck by any means).
Albatross isn't problematic because it can go face. It's its effect on top of a very good stats for its mana cost, which is a problem. You didn't make it any different. It still has its effect, it still has stats of a vanilla minion for its mana cost, rather than of a minion with a powerful effect. You did nothing. Arguably you made it stronger for some decks.
Altruis supposed to be strong, so let's barely change it... Yeah, legit. You know where the issue is? Blizzard themselves said they are possibly going to NERF the cards (not specifically Altruis). Nerf means making them weaker. You are simply denying reality by proposing changes, which are not nerfing at all. We are discussing possible nerfs here, not how we would like the cards to look. I could write here that in my opinion Kael'Thuzad should cost 7 mana, because I say so (ma fav card) and so what? How is this connected to the reality? If Blizz is going to touch the cards, they will be weaker. Accept this. What you are proposing is not a point of a nerf, rather some weird re-design.
Blizzard themselves said they are possibly going to NERF the cards (not specifically Altruis). Nerf means making them weaker.
A nerf is making the card weaker. A little or a lot they are both nerfs. If you think my nerfs didnt make the cards weaker than we can agree to disagree. How do you think they should nerf Albatross and sac pact?
Blizzard themselves said they are possibly going to NERF the cards (not specifically Altruis). Nerf means making them weaker.
A nerf is making the card weaker. A little or a lot they are both nerfs. If you think my nerfs didnt make the cards weaker than we can agree to disagree. How do you think they should nerf Albatross and sac pact?
Sac Pact should clearly target only your minions, I think it's a general consensus in the community and I agree with it.
Albatross should either have other stats for its effect (weaker) or a mana cost. It has a 3-drop body and an effect that is currently free - which should never be the case, because it is easily worth at least 1 mana. I am not sure if I like the fact it completely messes Highlander up, but let's give it a pass for now.
Sacrifice sounds like it wouldn't really be a sacrifice, at least for you, if you sacrifice your enemy's demon. But personally I would be fine with just it not being able to target face.
The problem with albatross/sac is it counters multiple decks very hard so if one is good and popular all the others get screwed. Balancing around trech cards is hard so the easy way is to just get rid of them.
Time Warp nerfed into the ground please, the whole premiss is stupid, and it's become way broken in wild over time, even by wild's standards. A simple mana increase isn't close to enough with this card.
As for standard, I like that sac pact and BLalbertross kept some of the most overpowered decks more honest. Highlander and demon hunter decks right now are OP, so I have no problem with them being countered.
Altruis' effect going face is fine. There has to be some option to deal face damage circumventing taunts: DH has just him, Kayn and Metamorphosis, all of which can only be played 1x. People are conveniently ignoring that DH has exactly ZERO other spells that can directly target face.
The anti-aggro bias on this site is unreal. Ridiculously strong taunts with reborn / deathrattle summon another taunt / heal for like 12 / untargettable (and by the way DH has an incredible hard time against the latters), all of which you can play 2x in your deck? Hurray! Perfectly Balanced! A legendary card that does some face damage by comboing into other cards on like turn 7 with a relatively hard condition to pull off? OMG NERF IMMEDIATELY!1
Altruis' effect going face is fine. There has to be some option to deal face damage circumventing taunts: DH has just him, Kayn and Metamorphosis. People are conveniently ignoring that DH has exactly ZERO other spells that can directly target face.
There's no reason Altruis needs to go face. In fact, it makes no sense. Clear board, develop, and burn is too much in a 3 mana card. There are plenty of options circumventing taunts - Maive, Kayne, Metamorphosis, Glaivebound Adept, Iron Beak Owl, etc. etc. etc. Metamorphosis goes face, Priestess of Fury can go face. Imprisoned Antean can go face. Glaivebound Adept can go face.
Altruis' effect going face is fine. There has to be some option to deal face damage circumventing taunts: DH has just him, Kayn and Metamorphosis. People are conveniently ignoring that DH has exactly ZERO other spells that can directly target face.
There's no reason Altruis needs to go face. In fact, it makes no sense. Clear board, develop, and burn is too much in a 3 mana card.
Yeah except it's not "in a 3-mana card". To achieve a decent Altruis turn you have to play 3-4 other cards, you most likely need Twin Slice and/or a discount from Skull and all of those card have to be in outcast. So it's more than 3 mana and more than "in a card". You guys are talking like he has a enemy-only Hellfire on a battlecry.
Glaivebound Adept sucks and Ironbeak Owl you can't be serious. The other effects are random and depending on board state. It's not the same.
Most of big Altruis swings/lethals come into play directly after Skull of Gul'dan gives you hand full of basically free cards, generating even more cards.
And the other offenders are cheap cards, which let you develop and generate more resources, while being played. It's not like you could go for a board clear and tons of damage with Altruiss in most of other classes. You need exactly those cheap draw power, developing abilities and one of arguably the most broken cards in Standard (Skull of Gul'dan) to break it.
Yeah, sounds crazy. But I genuinely think Altruiss isn't broken, even with face damage. Other cards from the class are.
I would leave Bloodbloom alone and nerf Darkest Hour - 6 mana, destroy a friendly minion and summon a random minion from your deck. It would still be a mana cheat and let you bring out a powerful minion early, but it's not overwhelming. Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound on turn 6 is still a nice high roll.
Priestess of Fury - 7 mana 5/6, deal 5 damage randomly to all enemies.
Albatross and Sac pact are not OP cards. Tech cards are supposed to be strong when a specific condition is met. Sac pact 0 mana kill your own minion heal 5 will never see play. Albatross 4 mana 4/3 will only see play if highlander/minionless decks are very strong in the meta.
There is also a meaningful difference between 3 4/3 and 4 3/5. 3 4/3 can get out early and smack your face. It is a nerf not a change.
Altruis is a legendary and should be a strong card. It has a lot more room to be nerfed than albatross and sac pact but shouldnt.
We can get back to this after the nerfs and albatross and sac pact arnt in any decks.
"0 mana kill your own minion heal 5 will never see play"
Except for the fact that it does, in wild darkest hour warlock, where it is often used on a 1/1 imp to heal for 5 out of Fireball range.
Except for the fact that the card 0 mana kill your own minion heal 5 doesnt exist yet.
Cube lock has been playing Sac Pact just to target their own minions. Same with Dreadsteed lock (yes, it was a thing once upon a time, even though not a top deck by any means).
Albatross isn't problematic because it can go face. It's its effect on top of a very good stats for its mana cost, which is a problem. You didn't make it any different. It still has its effect, it still has stats of a vanilla minion for its mana cost, rather than of a minion with a powerful effect. You did nothing. Arguably you made it stronger for some decks.
Altruis supposed to be strong, so let's barely change it... Yeah, legit. You know where the issue is? Blizzard themselves said they are possibly going to NERF the cards (not specifically Altruis). Nerf means making them weaker. You are simply denying reality by proposing changes, which are not nerfing at all. We are discussing possible nerfs here, not how we would like the cards to look. I could write here that in my opinion Kael'Thuzad should cost 7 mana, because I say so (ma fav card) and so what? How is this connected to the reality? If Blizz is going to touch the cards, they will be weaker. Accept this. What you are proposing is not a point of a nerf, rather some weird re-design.
Pointless effect. Think of why you play albatross. One of them in opponent deck does 0 vs highlander and doesn't distrupt their card-draw as much.
A nerf is making the card weaker. A little or a lot they are both nerfs. If you think my nerfs didnt make the cards weaker than we can agree to disagree. How do you think they should nerf Albatross and sac pact?
Sac Pact should clearly target only your minions, I think it's a general consensus in the community and I agree with it.
Albatross should either have other stats for its effect (weaker) or a mana cost. It has a 3-drop body and an effect that is currently free - which should never be the case, because it is easily worth at least 1 mana. I am not sure if I like the fact it completely messes Highlander up, but let's give it a pass for now.
Sacrifice sounds like it wouldn't really be a sacrifice, at least for you, if you sacrifice your enemy's demon. But personally I would be fine with just it not being able to target face.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Are you joking sir?
Altruis the Outcast is way too far from being balanced.
I've never seen something so ridicolous since I quit playing Yu-gi-oh in 2007.
The problem with albatross/sac is it counters multiple decks very hard so if one is good and popular all the others get screwed. Balancing around trech cards is hard so the easy way is to just get rid of them.
time warp to 7 mana
arcane giant reduced to 10 mana but cost reduced only when you cast spell and he is in your hand.
mana giant 12 mana(wtf they were thinking with card that have just upside)
jumbo imp 16 mana but doesnt have to be in hand to get his cost reduced
Time Warp nerfed into the ground please, the whole premiss is stupid, and it's become way broken in wild over time, even by wild's standards. A simple mana increase isn't close to enough with this card.
As for standard, I like that sac pact and BLalbertross kept some of the most overpowered decks more honest. Highlander and demon hunter decks right now are OP, so I have no problem with them being countered.
Since the start of this month, I've gone from Bronze 10 to Gold 3 and haven't encountered a single quest mage. What rank are they so popular at?
Demon Hunter:
Battlefiend: 1-mana, 2/1. Same effect.
Altruis the Outcast: 4-mana, 3/2. Deal 1 damage to all minions.
Sacrificial Pact: Same card, only target friendly minions.
Frenzied Felwing: 5-mana 3/3. [Puts it in a similar class as Arcane Tyrant, Anubisath Defender, etc.]
Bad Luck Albatross: Shuffle ONE 1/1 Albatross into your opponent's deck
Kael'thas Sunstrider: The third spell you cast each turn costs (0) [a reversion to its original text]
I'm assuming you're talking wild here, because we are talking about Open the Waygate.
Quest mage is probably a fifth of all my matches at diamond 5 - diamond-2.
Altruis' effect going face is fine. There has to be some option to deal face damage circumventing taunts: DH has just him, Kayn and Metamorphosis, all of which can only be played 1x. People are conveniently ignoring that DH has exactly ZERO other spells that can directly target face.
The anti-aggro bias on this site is unreal. Ridiculously strong taunts with reborn / deathrattle summon another taunt / heal for like 12 / untargettable (and by the way DH has an incredible hard time against the latters), all of which you can play 2x in your deck? Hurray! Perfectly Balanced! A legendary card that does some face damage by comboing into other cards on like turn 7 with a relatively hard condition to pull off? OMG NERF IMMEDIATELY!1
There's no reason Altruis needs to go face. In fact, it makes no sense. Clear board, develop, and burn is too much in a 3 mana card.
There are plenty of options circumventing taunts - Maive, Kayne, Metamorphosis, Glaivebound Adept, Iron Beak Owl, etc. etc. etc.
Metamorphosis goes face, Priestess of Fury can go face. Imprisoned Antean can go face. Glaivebound Adept can go face.
Yeah except it's not "in a 3-mana card". To achieve a decent Altruis turn you have to play 3-4 other cards, you most likely need Twin Slice and/or a discount from Skull and all of those card have to be in outcast. So it's more than 3 mana and more than "in a card". You guys are talking like he has a enemy-only Hellfire on a battlecry.
Glaivebound Adept sucks and Ironbeak Owl you can't be serious. The other effects are random and depending on board state. It's not the same.
The fact is people blame Altruiss, while the actual sinners are other cards. Mainly Skull of Gul'dan, Twin Slice, Chaos Strike and others.
Most of big Altruis swings/lethals come into play directly after Skull of Gul'dan gives you hand full of basically free cards, generating even more cards.
And the other offenders are cheap cards, which let you develop and generate more resources, while being played. It's not like you could go for a board clear and tons of damage with Altruiss in most of other classes. You need exactly those cheap draw power, developing abilities and one of arguably the most broken cards in Standard (Skull of Gul'dan) to break it.
Yeah, sounds crazy. But I genuinely think Altruiss isn't broken, even with face damage. Other cards from the class are.
Sacrifical Pact - 0 mana, destroy a friendly demon, restore 5 health.
Bad Luck Albatross - change it to a 3 mana, 3/3, keeping the current deathrattle.
Frenzied Felwing - change it so that it has a minimum cost of 1 mana.
Kael'thas Sunstrider - every third spell you cast costs 2 mana.
Open the Waygate - change Time Warp to 7 mana.
I would leave Bloodbloom alone and nerf Darkest Hour - 6 mana, destroy a friendly minion and summon a random minion from your deck. It would still be a mana cheat and let you bring out a powerful minion early, but it's not overwhelming. Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound on turn 6 is still a nice high roll.
Priestess of Fury - 7 mana 5/6, deal 5 damage randomly to all enemies.
Altruis the Outcast - take away the face damage.