hs is not a game of total skill. rng defines many more matches than anything else. any player who arrives at the diamond is capable of being world champion if he is lucky and dedicates the necessary time. I don't see much difference in skill between pro players, platinum or diamond players. the only thing I see is the difference in time devoted to the game and the use of more competitive decks. (sorry my english is not my native language)
Even with the old system, it was possible to climb from rank 5 to legend with a 48% winrate if you played enough games.
I'm sorry, but I'd say that's mathematically impossible.
Without winstreak-bonus-stars you'll need anything greater than 50% (even, if it's just 50,1%). The problem is that the closer you are to 50%, the crazily higher the number of games is that you'd need to climb up.
(or did you mean using a deck with an meta-average winrate of 48%?)
Guys, there are no good/bad players, only players with A LOT of time at their disposal and can grind to legend and the people that do not have this luxury.
It's just a grind reaching Legend, Heartstone is not a skill intensive game.
Even with the old system, it was possible to climb from rank 5 to legend with a 48% winrate if you played enough games.
I'm sorry, but I'd say that's mathematically impossible.
Without winstreak-bonus-stars you'll need anything greater than 50% (even, if it's just 50,1%). The problem is that the closer you are to 50%, the crazily higher the number of games is that you'd need to climb up.
(or did you mean using a deck with an meta-average winrate of 48%?)
You should read up on maths, then;-)
The thing is you only need 25 wins over losses at any point and you could not drop below rank 5. Now with only 15 required, it will be a lot easier.
To prove my point: If you start by losing 30 games in a row, then win 15, you will be promoted with a very bad winrate. For more complex chains the same principle applies.
There are sites where you can run simulations. Iirc, at like 46% winrate it takes too long.
The main reason for this is the netdecking. The biggest skill in the game comes from reading the meta and countering it with a custom made deck. When the meta is stale, the top tier decks are known and people just netdeck. Very few players make their own tier 2 decks or F2P decks and play with them.
All of this can change and HS could become much more skilled game if they implement a mode which auto-bans the most played cards. Then netdecking would become useless since the moment more players netdeck would be the moment their cards get a ban. This means the creative players would prosper and their deck building skill would be properly rewarded. However, that means one more thing: There would be a lot of F2P decks in such mode and Blizzard does NOT want this since this would lower their income, which then leads to HS forever remaining a game designed without the deck building competition in mind.
The main reason for this is the netdecking. The biggest skill in the game comes from reading the meta and countering it with a custom made deck. When the meta is stale, the top tier decks are known and people just netdeck. Very few players make their own tier 2 decks or F2P decks and play with them.
All of this can change and HS could become much more skilled game if they implement a mode which auto-bans the most played cards. Then netdecking would become useless since the moment more players netdeck would be the moment their cards get a ban. This means the creative players would prosper and their deck building skill would be properly rewarded. However, that means one more thing: There would be a lot of F2P decks in such mode and Blizzard does NOT want this since this would lower their income, which then leads to HS forever remaining a game designed without the deck building competition in mind.
Well, I'm old enough to remember playing Magic the Gathering tournaments when Internet was not a thing ( yes, I'm THAT old ) and you speak the truth my friend. Your idea is very intriguing, and I for sure have nostalgia of the REAL times when ALL decks were homebrew decks!
Even with the old system, it was possible to climb from rank 5 to legend with a 48% winrate if you played enough games.
The new system makes it easier to reach legend, but not because of the MMR based matchmaking. -There are more rank floors, which effectively discount more losses while climbing. -You need less stars from after the winstreak bonus stars are gone. -High legend players keep their bonus stars all the way up to their finish the previous season. They can still have bonus stars at legend!
Another burning question is if tanking your MMR to makie climbing the ranks easier. Blizzard has stated this does NOT help, but as long as you recover your MMR once you reach your goal, there should not be a problem. Next season also gives you bonus stars based on MMR OR rank, whichever is higher.
How was it possible in the old System to reach legend with a 48% winrate? I don't get it...
Even with the old system, it was possible to climb from rank 5 to legend with a 48% winrate if you played enough games.
I'm sorry, but I'd say that's mathematically impossible.
Without winstreak-bonus-stars you'll need anything greater than 50% (even, if it's just 50,1%). The problem is that the closer you are to 50%, the crazily higher the number of games is that you'd need to climb up.
(or did you mean using a deck with an meta-average winrate of 48%?)
You should read up on maths, then;-)
The thing is you only need 25 wins over losses at any point and you could not drop below rank 5. Now with only 15 required, it will be a lot easier.
To prove my point: If you start by losing 30 games in a row, then win 15, you will be promoted with a very bad winrate. For more complex chains the same principle applies.
There are sites where you can run simulations. Iirc, at like 46% winrate it takes too long.
Damn, I guess you got me there.
I forgot that the number of actual wins you need is pretty small, so you could actually do it within a few hundred games. Shame on me. Was thinking too simplified there...
Those simulator sites are pretty cool. Hadn't known that there are some specifically tailored for HS. You never stop learning. ;-)
The intention of the matchmaker is not to have people reach their natural rank based on skill. It is to attempt to provide 50/50 chance at winning each game. This is part of blizzard focusing on player engagement. If a good player walks through most of their games, they won't keep grinding. If a bad player gets smoked every time even with a tier 1 deck, they won't keep playing.
There are also other things built into the game engine for blizzard to reach desirable outcomes, such as inspiring/rewarding spending, limiting amount of time players play in a day, and putting plateaus in place to limit progression.
So don't go by the responses you get here, the vitriol directed at you is intended to shut down the discussion. By calling you stupid, a bad player, a tinfoil hat, they are trying to teach you not to talk about these things.
This is wrong, I have about 25% winrate with my highlander shaman, the MMR doesn't seem to work properly, if it did, my winrate would be 50% with any deck, including my home made decks.
Or you can just concede at each rank10 and rank5 until you face really shit opponents and winstreak until the next safe rank.
Repeat.
Dont tell anyone '-'
This will only help while you still have a star bonus - after that you're matched on rank, not MMR.
Climbing while you have a star bonus up is something you can do with super casual play, so I'm not convinced this is a useful tactic for most players. You'll also tank your MMR and potentially cost yourself a bonus star or two for next month.
This is wrong, I have about 25% winrate with my highlander shaman, the MMR doesn't seem to work properly, if it did, my winrate would be 50% with any deck, including my home made decks.
what a silly strawman argument. That would be like saying you should win 50 percent hitting concede turn one. You really should learn how to argue a point, that was just pathetic.
Or you can just concede at each rank10 and rank5 until you face really shit opponents and winstreak until the next safe rank.
Repeat.
Dont tell anyone '-'
This will only help while you still have a star bonus - after that you're matched on rank, not MMR.
Climbing while you have a star bonus up is something you can do with super casual play, so I'm not convinced this is a useful tactic for most players. You'll also tank your MMR and potentially cost yourself a bonus star or two for next month.
but that is not true, that is what they told us, but it is not true.
Trash players would reach legend anyway as long as they could play alot.The only thing that changed with the dh class and the new rank system is the amount they need to play.The game is for casuals. It has been for years. If you want skill expression play other ccgs.
This. I got to diamond 5 with a fairly scrub rng-spell mage. I am playing. For fun. Not trying to rank up but there’s point in Casual so why not?
Isn't rng-spell mage one of the strongest deck archetypes there is? today i got 5 quest otk mages in a row at rank 3 wild.... It's like 70% of people playing one variant of mage or another after demon hunter mania subsided.
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hs is not a game of total skill. rng defines many more matches than anything else. any player who arrives at the diamond is capable of being world champion if he is lucky and dedicates the necessary time. I don't see much difference in skill between pro players, platinum or diamond players. the only thing I see is the difference in time devoted to the game and the use of more competitive decks. (sorry my english is not my native language)
No, it is 15 and it used to be 25
I'm sorry, but I'd say that's mathematically impossible.
Without winstreak-bonus-stars you'll need anything greater than 50% (even, if it's just 50,1%). The problem is that the closer you are to 50%, the crazily higher the number of games is that you'd need to climb up.
(or did you mean using a deck with an meta-average winrate of 48%?)
Guys, there are no good/bad players, only players with A LOT of time at their disposal and can grind to legend and the people that do not have this luxury.
It's just a grind reaching Legend, Heartstone is not a skill intensive game.
Ohh a simple detail. I had much problems at the start on the low ranks.
I played an old Zoo Deck and are matched with golden legend Card Back Decks, that will crush me with meta relevant card.
From Silver 9 i go up to gold in a winstreak.
You should read up on maths, then;-)
The thing is you only need 25 wins over losses at any point and you could not drop below rank 5. Now with only 15 required, it will be a lot easier.
To prove my point: If you start by losing 30 games in a row, then win 15, you will be promoted with a very bad winrate. For more complex chains the same principle applies.
There are sites where you can run simulations. Iirc, at like 46% winrate it takes too long.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The main reason for this is the netdecking. The biggest skill in the game comes from reading the meta and countering it with a custom made deck. When the meta is stale, the top tier decks are known and people just netdeck. Very few players make their own tier 2 decks or F2P decks and play with them.
All of this can change and HS could become much more skilled game if they implement a mode which auto-bans the most played cards. Then netdecking would become useless since the moment more players netdeck would be the moment their cards get a ban. This means the creative players would prosper and their deck building skill would be properly rewarded. However, that means one more thing: There would be a lot of F2P decks in such mode and Blizzard does NOT want this since this would lower their income, which then leads to HS forever remaining a game designed without the deck building competition in mind.
no
Well, I'm old enough to remember playing Magic the Gathering tournaments when Internet was not a thing ( yes, I'm THAT old ) and you speak the truth my friend. Your idea is very intriguing, and I for sure have nostalgia of the REAL times when ALL decks were homebrew decks!
How was it possible in the old System to reach legend with a 48% winrate? I don't get it...
Damn, I guess you got me there.
I forgot that the number of actual wins you need is pretty small, so you could actually do it within a few hundred games. Shame on me. Was thinking too simplified there...
Those simulator sites are pretty cool. Hadn't known that there are some specifically tailored for HS. You never stop learning. ;-)
Or you can just concede at each rank10 and rank5 until you face really shit opponents and winstreak until the next safe rank.
Repeat.
Dont tell anyone '-'
The intention of the matchmaker is not to have people reach their natural rank based on skill. It is to attempt to provide 50/50 chance at winning each game. This is part of blizzard focusing on player engagement. If a good player walks through most of their games, they won't keep grinding. If a bad player gets smoked every time even with a tier 1 deck, they won't keep playing.
There are also other things built into the game engine for blizzard to reach desirable outcomes, such as inspiring/rewarding spending, limiting amount of time players play in a day, and putting plateaus in place to limit progression.
So don't go by the responses you get here, the vitriol directed at you is intended to shut down the discussion. By calling you stupid, a bad player, a tinfoil hat, they are trying to teach you not to talk about these things.
This is wrong, I have about 25% winrate with my highlander shaman, the MMR doesn't seem to work properly, if it did, my winrate would be 50% with any deck, including my home made decks.
This will only help while you still have a star bonus - after that you're matched on rank, not MMR.
Climbing while you have a star bonus up is something you can do with super casual play, so I'm not convinced this is a useful tactic for most players. You'll also tank your MMR and potentially cost yourself a bonus star or two for next month.
I think EU used to have between 10-15k legends a month, this month its over 17k already, just saying..
That cardback holds no value anymore.
what a silly strawman argument. That would be like saying you should win 50 percent hitting concede turn one. You really should learn how to argue a point, that was just pathetic.
but that is not true, that is what they told us, but it is not true.
Can't be cuz I'm in legend 164 and played a D3
Isn't rng-spell mage one of the strongest deck archetypes there is? today i got 5 quest otk mages in a row at rank 3 wild.... It's like 70% of people playing one variant of mage or another after demon hunter mania subsided.