As in the saying, there are no problems, there are only solutions... Due to the supremacy of DH, everybody looked for a way to counter it.
This led to the rise of some quite powerful decks. Are these becoming oppressive after having controlled DH? I think it's just too early to answer to that.
Could we try to consider it to be a challenge rather than a problem and take it from there? Challenge accepted (I can see rogues smiling), solution incoming...Please wait...
As a Wild player (Currently Diamond 3), the class honestly was just fine upon release, but became very weak with the nerfs and will certainly be unplayable with further nerfs.
If a completly new class with a much smaller cardpool compared to the others is doing just fine in Wild on release day means it must have been broken af for standard. BUT I think the main fault wasn't actually the DH class cards. If they are doing just fine in Wild, that means the cards can't have been overpowered.
Rather the problem is a much different one: They focused too much on DH, disregarding the other classes too much. And that at the start of a new standard year, when all the classes were loosing half of their stuff.
The year of the Dragon was much more powerful than its preceding Standard years as every expansion also greatly changed Wild. Usually we get only one or two new playable cards per meta deck, but in the year of the Dragon we got like 5 or six new or returning meta DECKS per expansion.
Now with Ashes of Outland everything is back to normal. Aside from the new DH class, no new decks have sparked, and every existing meta deck got its one or two playable new cards.
In other words, alltogether Ashes of Outland is a weak expansion, and most of the good stuff is shifted too much towards Demon Hunter, while all the other classes got the lesser end of the stick.
As a Wild player (Currently Diamond 3), the class honestly was just fine upon release, but became very weak with the nerfs and will certainly be unplayable with further nerfs.
If a completly new class with a much smaller cardpool compared to the others is doing just fine in Wild on release day means it must have been broken af for standard. BUT I think the main fault wasn't actually the DH class cards. If they are doing just fine in Wild, that means the cards can't have been overpowered.
Rather the problem is a much different one: They focused too much on DH, disregarding the other classes too much. And that at the start of a new standard year, when all the classes were loosing half of their stuff.
The year of the Dragon was much more powerful than its preceding Standard years as every expansion also greatly changed Wild. Usually we get only one or two new playable cards per meta deck, but in the year of the Dragon we got like 5 or six new or returning meta DECKS per expansion.
Now with Ashes of Outland everything is back to normal. Aside from the new DH class, no new decks have sparked, and every existing meta deck got its one or two playable new cards.
In other words, alltogether Ashes of Outland is a weak expansion, and most of the good stuff is shifted too much towards Demon Hunter, while all the other classes got the lesser end of the stick.
As a legend player, both wild and standard, first and third expansion day:
Yes, Demon Hunter deserved a nerf, but nerfing it that soon just because the stats and doing just "mana adjustments" was very bad. Stats doesn't matter tbh cause everybody and their mother will be playing DH now, doesn't matter if it's broken or if it sucks. The mana adjustment was bad as well, Skull of Guldan for one more mana doesn't change that much when the BEST curve is Raging Felscreamer on 4 into Priestess of Fury on 5. But Skull is the most annoying card, it should have get its effect destroyed and let the other cards be. Well, the weapon was a problem cause of the Kael'thas deck, but...
Kael'thas atm is a painful card in both formats. But as they will release its golden version later on the adventure, don't expect a nerf coming soon. But it deserves going into 9 mana, is way more dangerous than Malygos and costs 3 less. Kael'thas Druid is just obscene in both formats.
And if anybody thinks Galakrond Warlock deserves a nerf, wrong. That deck is a just a meta call, just like Res Priest.
TL;DR: Nerfs happened so soon and were so poorly figured out. Win ratio on Kael'thas being drawn on time is ridiculous.
I have almost 100% of winrate vs DH with my secret rogue, I can fight for the early tempo and the secrets give me the advantage I need.
Dragon hunter is a much more reliable deck, the nerfs works, the demon and the 3 cards draw for only 5 manas and 3 damage lifesteal for 0 was stupid, they fixed the class now.
"Win ratio on Kael'thas being drawn on time is ridiculous."
I mean... Kael'thas is a combo piece.
If a Combo deck draws it's combo pieces, then they're going to win.
Because that's how combo decks work.
That's bullshit, combo is Aviana + Innervate + Kun + Maly, etc. Kael'thas can be played to destroy the opponent's board, to fill yours and even to generate big card advantage to keep filling the board every turn until your opponent has nothing left. OP picture is a turn 6 or even 5. As soon as Kael'thas is drawn, the win rate of that deck skyrockets so much. Not even close to Exotic Mountseller, the other "combo piece" of the deck.
I drew the perfect curve several times that would crush even a disadventageous matchup.
The DH bounced back like it was nothing, every single time. And this deck was made just to take on DH.
I could say the same about Spell Druid. Had several game with a perfect opening curve just crushed by Druid playing his 9-mana turn when I was still on turn 4. Overgrowth is ridiculous. It basically reads: have infinite pre-nerf Innervates until your opponents catches up on turn 10.
After nerfs DH still feels like the hard counter to Spell Druid, which I firmly believe is going to shape up to be one of the best decks in the meta.
For DH to hard counter or consistently beat Spell Druid, it has to be a VERY aggressive/face list with lots of 1-2 drops. But these versions of DH basically suck against everything else.
The more solid tempo/midrange DH deck is definitely NOT a hard counter to Spell Druid. How can it be? It has no way to deal with the ridiculous boards Druid can generate one after another, and it's not fast enough to kill him before he comes online, unless you have a perfect double Battlefiend opening into perfect curve. Which again, it's not that common with the non-superaggro lists. In my opinion, this matchup would have been the same even pre-nerf, but Spell Druid wasn't a thing YET (or wasn't as refined as it's becoming now) so people didn't know.
Another incredibly hard matchup is against Gala Warlock, another deck which is being refined with new cards just now. Sac Pact is basically a 0-mana improved Siphon Soul here, not to mention Warlock early AND late board clear capabilities.
And don't get me wrong: it's absolutely OKAY that there are hard matchups / counter to a strong deck like DH. Although Sac Pact is kind of stupid. But maybe wait for more than 2 days before nerfing FOUR cards all at once?
I won't say DH isn't strong, but people are piling on DH after nerfs when DH can't win against top tier decks like big druid or ress priest without having a great curve.
DH is still a problem no matter the nerfs. The issues is Anteans damage is too much, the mana cost doesn't matter. Its stupid and unhealthy for the game. Its stopping multiple types of decks evolving as every deck needs an answer for it or need to kill the Dh before turn 6. ITS DUMB
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I drew the perfect curve several times that would crush even a disadventageous matchup.
The DH bounced back like it was nothing, every single time. And this deck was made just to take on DH.
I think you mean THE (only) problem?
As in the saying, there are no problems, there are only solutions... Due to the supremacy of DH, everybody looked for a way to counter it.
This led to the rise of some quite powerful decks. Are these becoming oppressive after having controlled DH? I think it's just too early to answer to that.
Could we try to consider it to be a challenge rather than a problem and take it from there? Challenge accepted (I can see rogues smiling), solution incoming...Please wait...
DH was/is clearly a problem. Just load up hearthstone or look up some stats if you need help seeing why
once they nerf priestess a tinny bit demon hunter well be in a good spot . it just needs a smaller body
As a Wild player (Currently Diamond 3), the class honestly was just fine upon release, but became very weak with the nerfs and will certainly be unplayable with further nerfs.
If a completly new class with a much smaller cardpool compared to the others is doing just fine in Wild on release day means it must have been broken af for standard. BUT I think the main fault wasn't actually the DH class cards. If they are doing just fine in Wild, that means the cards can't have been overpowered.
Rather the problem is a much different one: They focused too much on DH, disregarding the other classes too much. And that at the start of a new standard year, when all the classes were loosing half of their stuff.
The year of the Dragon was much more powerful than its preceding Standard years as every expansion also greatly changed Wild. Usually we get only one or two new playable cards per meta deck, but in the year of the Dragon we got like 5 or six new or returning meta DECKS per expansion.
Now with Ashes of Outland everything is back to normal. Aside from the new DH class, no new decks have sparked, and every existing meta deck got its one or two playable new cards.
In other words, alltogether Ashes of Outland is a weak expansion, and most of the good stuff is shifted too much towards Demon Hunter, while all the other classes got the lesser end of the stick.
Fucking this, honestly. None of the primes is competitive and all the classes got shit except DH
Without the nerfs, DH would still be crushing pretty much any T1 deck. Yeah, it was a problem.
After nerfs DH still feels like the hard counter to Spell Druid, which I firmly believe is going to shape up to be one of the best decks in the meta.
So if you get all these tweaks and you're still hard countering a Tier 1 deck... what in the world is all the fuss over?
As a legend player, both wild and standard, first and third expansion day:
Yes, Demon Hunter deserved a nerf, but nerfing it that soon just because the stats and doing just "mana adjustments" was very bad. Stats doesn't matter tbh cause everybody and their mother will be playing DH now, doesn't matter if it's broken or if it sucks. The mana adjustment was bad as well, Skull of Guldan for one more mana doesn't change that much when the BEST curve is Raging Felscreamer on 4 into Priestess of Fury on 5. But Skull is the most annoying card, it should have get its effect destroyed and let the other cards be. Well, the weapon was a problem cause of the Kael'thas deck, but...
Kael'thas atm is a painful card in both formats. But as they will release its golden version later on the adventure, don't expect a nerf coming soon. But it deserves going into 9 mana, is way more dangerous than Malygos and costs 3 less. Kael'thas Druid is just obscene in both formats.
And if anybody thinks Galakrond Warlock deserves a nerf, wrong. That deck is a just a meta call, just like Res Priest.
TL;DR: Nerfs happened so soon and were so poorly figured out. Win ratio on Kael'thas being drawn on time is ridiculous.
You obviously haven’t played Solarian Prime then.
Release the Kraken!
People little overeacting to dh now . Galakrond warlock has a -%6 more winrate.
"Win ratio on Kael'thas being drawn on time is ridiculous."
I mean... Kael'thas is a combo piece.
If a Combo deck draws it's combo pieces, then they're going to win.
Because that's how combo decks work.
I have almost 100% of winrate vs DH with my secret rogue, I can fight for the early tempo and the secrets give me the advantage I need.
Dragon hunter is a much more reliable deck, the nerfs works, the demon and the 3 cards draw for only 5 manas and 3 damage lifesteal for 0 was stupid, they fixed the class now.
I don't think any more nerfs are necessary.
That's bullshit, combo is Aviana + Innervate + Kun + Maly, etc. Kael'thas can be played to destroy the opponent's board, to fill yours and even to generate big card advantage to keep filling the board every turn until your opponent has nothing left. OP picture is a turn 6 or even 5. As soon as Kael'thas is drawn, the win rate of that deck skyrockets so much. Not even close to Exotic Mountseller, the other "combo piece" of the deck.
I could say the same about Spell Druid. Had several game with a perfect opening curve just crushed by Druid playing his 9-mana turn when I was still on turn 4. Overgrowth is ridiculous. It basically reads: have infinite pre-nerf Innervates until your opponents catches up on turn 10.
For DH to hard counter or consistently beat Spell Druid, it has to be a VERY aggressive/face list with lots of 1-2 drops. But these versions of DH basically suck against everything else.
The more solid tempo/midrange DH deck is definitely NOT a hard counter to Spell Druid. How can it be? It has no way to deal with the ridiculous boards Druid can generate one after another, and it's not fast enough to kill him before he comes online, unless you have a perfect double Battlefiend opening into perfect curve. Which again, it's not that common with the non-superaggro lists. In my opinion, this matchup would have been the same even pre-nerf, but Spell Druid wasn't a thing YET (or wasn't as refined as it's becoming now) so people didn't know.
Another incredibly hard matchup is against Gala Warlock, another deck which is being refined with new cards just now. Sac Pact is basically a 0-mana improved Siphon Soul here, not to mention Warlock early AND late board clear capabilities.
And don't get me wrong: it's absolutely OKAY that there are hard matchups / counter to a strong deck like DH. Although Sac Pact is kind of stupid. But maybe wait for more than 2 days before nerfing FOUR cards all at once?
I won't say DH isn't strong, but people are piling on DH after nerfs when DH can't win against top tier decks like big druid or ress priest without having a great curve.
Of course his brother Malfurion had to step up to defend the family name.
DH is still a problem no matter the nerfs. The issues is Anteans damage is too much, the mana cost doesn't matter. Its stupid and unhealthy for the game. Its stopping multiple types of decks evolving as every deck needs an answer for it or need to kill the Dh before turn 6. ITS DUMB