I am a mage player, almost 1000 wins and i can sit here and say that Open the Way Gate has become a monster. This is not a salty post, but looking deep into why has a once very memey card with a lowish winrate now just become a Powerhouse to play against , with a huge winrate. Here is the Tempo storms last month review on wild if you dont believe me:: https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2020-03-11
Why has open the way gate become a monster:
1: Too many ways to generate cheap random spells
Open the Waygate came out in ungoro, which at the time had very limited ways to generate extra spells. One way that some players even had to generate spells at the time was using cards like Cabalist's Tombe which was expensive and clunky. This led to the deck to have to draw fast, delay the board, make lots of decisions and try and be resourceful with using their cheap generation cards like Primordial Glyph. However, Rise of shadows started introducing really cheap cards which was careless to wild. Ray of Frost, Mana Cyclone and Magic Trick all undermind the flavor and creation of the deck and makes completing the quest too easy. Its probs one of the easiest quest to complete now in the game now with the most support of nearly any other quest in the game.
2: Too many win conditions for a single quest
Remember the good old Infinite fireballs which took players to draw almost their whole decks for? now its giants, Flamewalkers, two archmages and even more! i think Archmage Vargoth is one of the biggest issues with giving players a chance to have 2 extra turns in a row. A once very difficult combo to play now is flexible and can be very easily abused. It fits into control and aggro which i believe is scary. Its one of the ONLY quests to fit both archetypes which makes is really powerful. never underestimate flexibility in hearthstone. You can't play an aggro Supreme Archaeology, you can't play a control the Cavern's below however you can play BOTH of them with open the way gate which makes the card brokenly good as it fits into multiple decks.
3: Too much quest support which has the most support for Quest mage
Questing Explorer and Licensed Adventurer are two fair cards which are strong in most classes, but im mage they both fit too perfectly. One draws a card and one generates a cheap spell. TWO INSANELY POWERFUL effects for the deck which wants to do both these things.
4: Mage has alot of control options, even more since the year of the dragon which allows for greedy plays in a greedy deck
straight up is that mage makes a great control class in wild. Large board clears, card draw, Ice Block and now it has one of the most bonkers singleton package out there. all three Renos are really good and very effective with two swingy board clears, High RNG Hero power and a massive heal. Its the only class from year of the dragon to be part of the Kabal and have all the explorers singleton cards from last year. On top of this it has Freeze effects, ways to generate huge boards from Luna's Pocket Galaxy [/card] from random effects and [card]conjurer's calling. The open the way gate deck with Vargoth is crushes other control decks with its value and also just dominates aggro decks with its endless amount of board clears and card generation.
Conclusion: Mage is not a problem, Open the way gate is and its all from Year of the dragon cards
I love Mage, but it has become a monster. I believe year of the Dragon's cards have made Open the way gate Too powerful. The year made quest mage crazy strong and i do reckon it may be changed VERY soon.
Whats your opinion?
tl;dr: Quest mage has become broken since last years expansions due to Vargoth, Cheap spell generation, Quest support and singleton support.
As a main mage player I agree with you. If I can point out something positive - the deck is not an autopilot one, it requires some skill, but is damn powerful.
It's funny how the warlock quest has similar fate - at first it was laughed at, then it become a solid inclusion in the strongest combo deck so far.
PS: Kinda miss the old school grinder mage ... and freeze mage a bit to be honest /don't throw stones/
I agree, the deck is certainly hard to pilot to an extent; however, playing against it is literally as bad as playing against naga sea witch giants warlock. It's uninteractive, and even if you play a deck that "counters" quest mage, they'll find a way to win with random spells. I believe that sorcerer's apprentice should also receive a nerf, as things that cost 0 turn to be problematic.
thanks guys for your opinions and agreeing with me.
I agree, trying to counter quest mage is really hard with only 2 or 3 cards which can effectively do it, which lower your win rate against other classes.
I think the reward should cost more that 5 like 7 or so
or have a higher number of spells to cat that 6 like 8 or 10
i think mostly as its not salty lol, i am generally concerned about one of my favorite classes and the power level of the card and gave some pretty fair arguments i think
Me play spell that no start in deck, me get quest done. me freeze board and me waith for vargoth so me can play quest twice then me play two big giants that make opponent's face hurt until they go sleep sleep.
The problem is that each new expansion that comes out could ruin the wild experience. Not only Open the Waygate needs a nerf, but also other classes especially warlock and priest. Blizzard needs to change his philosophy about what cards classes should take because sometimes reinforcing an archetype could be a big wild problem.
Hearthstone needs a new format, Team 5 gives little importance to wild. How many years have mage (secrets and quest), warlock (any archetype "control") and priest (big) been played? Those archetypes are a design problem for wild.
I wouldn't want them to remove cards but I think it would be a stronger solution that really affects those decks, because sometimes Blizzard doesn't know how to do nerfs in the wild. My proposal is that they permanently delete cards and replace them with others. This has happened since the Hearthstone beta, remember?
i completely agree that they need to change their design philosophy for wild. Priest and warlock also present some large issues in the current meta.
However, quest mage has risen in fame within weeks, since Decent of Dragons, whereas priest and warlocks issues have mainly been around for a while, apart from Raza priest which has returned, which is a different story.
Quest mage was an issue before, but could easily be stalled or disrupted with Dirty Rat as it ran few minions in the past apart from combo pieces. HOWEVER, Quest Mage now is a powerhouse where not even dirty rat can control it as the reno decks have tons of cheap and large minions which dont have any relations to the combo. You literally just have 1 shot to pull out Vargoth.
i think they should create a wild 2.0 format, where some cards like this are banned to reduce the powerlevel, like in magic where there is legacy and vintage
Couldn't agree more. It's just an absolutely insane mechanic, getting an extra turn and balancing it is tough.
My solution would probably be something like make Time Warp cost 10 mana or something.
I always hated Quest Mages, because they always go for OTKs and I despise OTKs, even when they're not strong and they should never be strong and viable in my opinion.
I think it’s funny that the whole point of wild is that it’s supposed to be busted and yet people are always complaining about it...this is why I avoid that nonsense like the plague.
I think it’s funny that the whole point of wild is that it’s supposed to be busted and yet people are always complaining about it...this is why I avoid that nonsense like the plague.
It should be busted to an extent which is unavoidable, but when it becomes genuinely uninteractive where opponents can't do anything, then it's a problem like snip snap lock, and naga giant warlock.
I think it’s funny that the whole point of wild is that it’s supposed to be busted and yet people are always complaining about it...this is why I avoid that nonsense like the plague.
The other deck is Buster but they had counter. This deck doesnt have counterplay. Even pirate warriror cant win vs mage. Because1 mana freeze card spam
Hit legend earlier today in wild and out of my last 24 games playing as Jade Druid, 58% were against Quest Mage that's insane! One class more than all the others put together. The deck is not difficult to pilot either so not sure where you guys are coming from with that argument. Biggest culprit is definitely Vargoth and having 3 turns, but having extra turns in card games always ends up being a broken mechanic and Blizz will be nerfing this in some way soon I'm sure. It's just way too strong. I even lost a game with a full board and 60+ armour after popping the ice block which felt ridiculous!
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I am a mage player, almost 1000 wins and i can sit here and say that Open the Way Gate has become a monster. This is not a salty post, but looking deep into why has a once very memey card with a lowish winrate now just become a Powerhouse to play against , with a huge winrate. Here is the Tempo storms last month review on wild if you dont believe me:: https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/wild/2020-03-11
Why has open the way gate become a monster:
1: Too many ways to generate cheap random spells
Open the Waygate came out in ungoro, which at the time had very limited ways to generate extra spells. One way that some players even had to generate spells at the time was using cards like Cabalist's Tombe which was expensive and clunky. This led to the deck to have to draw fast, delay the board, make lots of decisions and try and be resourceful with using their cheap generation cards like Primordial Glyph. However, Rise of shadows started introducing really cheap cards which was careless to wild. Ray of Frost, Mana Cyclone and Magic Trick all undermind the flavor and creation of the deck and makes completing the quest too easy. Its probs one of the easiest quest to complete now in the game now with the most support of nearly any other quest in the game.
2: Too many win conditions for a single quest
Remember the good old Infinite fireballs which took players to draw almost their whole decks for? now its giants, Flamewalkers, two archmages and even more! i think Archmage Vargoth is one of the biggest issues with giving players a chance to have 2 extra turns in a row. A once very difficult combo to play now is flexible and can be very easily abused. It fits into control and aggro which i believe is scary. Its one of the ONLY quests to fit both archetypes which makes is really powerful. never underestimate flexibility in hearthstone. You can't play an aggro Supreme Archaeology, you can't play a control the Cavern's below however you can play BOTH of them with open the way gate which makes the card brokenly good as it fits into multiple decks.
3: Too much quest support which has the most support for Quest mage
Questing Explorer and Licensed Adventurer are two fair cards which are strong in most classes, but im mage they both fit too perfectly. One draws a card and one generates a cheap spell. TWO INSANELY POWERFUL effects for the deck which wants to do both these things.
4: Mage has alot of control options, even more since the year of the dragon which allows for greedy plays in a greedy deck
straight up is that mage makes a great control class in wild. Large board clears, card draw, Ice Block and now it has one of the most bonkers singleton package out there. all three Renos are really good and very effective with two swingy board clears, High RNG Hero power and a massive heal. Its the only class from year of the dragon to be part of the Kabal and have all the explorers singleton cards from last year. On top of this it has Freeze effects, ways to generate huge boards from Luna's Pocket Galaxy [/card] from random effects and [card]conjurer's calling. The open the way gate deck with Vargoth is crushes other control decks with its value and also just dominates aggro decks with its endless amount of board clears and card generation.
Conclusion: Mage is not a problem, Open the way gate is and its all from Year of the dragon cards
I love Mage, but it has become a monster. I believe year of the Dragon's cards have made Open the way gate Too powerful. The year made quest mage crazy strong and i do reckon it may be changed VERY soon.
Whats your opinion?
tl;dr: Quest mage has become broken since last years expansions due to Vargoth, Cheap spell generation, Quest support and singleton support.
As a main mage player I agree with you. If I can point out something positive - the deck is not an autopilot one, it requires some skill, but is damn powerful.
It's funny how the warlock quest has similar fate - at first it was laughed at, then it become a solid inclusion in the strongest combo deck so far.
PS: Kinda miss the old school grinder mage ... and freeze mage a bit to be honest /don't throw stones/
I agree, the deck is certainly hard to pilot to an extent; however, playing against it is literally as bad as playing against naga sea witch giants warlock. It's uninteractive, and even if you play a deck that "counters" quest mage, they'll find a way to win with random spells. I believe that sorcerer's apprentice should also receive a nerf, as things that cost 0 turn to be problematic.
Blizz is watching several wild decks and will likely nerf them after the expansion is out. They nerfed sn1plock, mage will be next.
thanks guys for your opinions and agreeing with me.
I agree, trying to counter quest mage is really hard with only 2 or 3 cards which can effectively do it, which lower your win rate against other classes.
I think the reward should cost more that 5 like 7 or so
or have a higher number of spells to cat that 6 like 8 or 10
In surprised you aren’t getting a lot of backlash or people directing you to the salt thread. That’s what most of the community does here
i think mostly as its not salty lol, i am generally concerned about one of my favorite classes and the power level of the card and gave some pretty fair arguments i think
hard to pilot deck? lol.
Me play spell that no start in deck, me get quest done. me freeze board and me waith for vargoth so me can play quest twice then me play two big giants that make opponent's face hurt until they go sleep sleep.
The problem is that each new expansion that comes out could ruin the wild experience. Not only Open the Waygate needs a nerf, but also other classes especially warlock and priest. Blizzard needs to change his philosophy about what cards classes should take because sometimes reinforcing an archetype could be a big wild problem.
Hearthstone needs a new format, Team 5 gives little importance to wild. How many years have mage (secrets and quest), warlock (any archetype "control") and priest (big) been played? Those archetypes are a design problem for wild.
I wouldn't want them to remove cards but I think it would be a stronger solution that really affects those decks, because sometimes Blizzard doesn't know how to do nerfs in the wild. My proposal is that they permanently delete cards and replace them with others. This has happened since the Hearthstone beta, remember?
lmao. As a 2000ish win mage class. I strongly agree with you. ITS getting boredseeing mage in ranked wild everywhere. Mage quest need to be reworked
Please Blizzard revamp the quest mage. And nerf secret mage
The secret mage tho. They like strong in 6 expansion and still no nerf
i completely agree that they need to change their design philosophy for wild. Priest and warlock also present some large issues in the current meta.
However, quest mage has risen in fame within weeks, since Decent of Dragons, whereas priest and warlocks issues have mainly been around for a while, apart from Raza priest which has returned, which is a different story.
Quest mage was an issue before, but could easily be stalled or disrupted with Dirty Rat as it ran few minions in the past apart from combo pieces. HOWEVER, Quest Mage now is a powerhouse where not even dirty rat can control it as the reno decks have tons of cheap and large minions which dont have any relations to the combo. You literally just have 1 shot to pull out Vargoth.
I won't say Mage isn't a problem but the problem with Open the Waygate isn't Archmage Vargoth or Luna's Pocket Galaxy.
i think they should create a wild 2.0 format, where some cards like this are banned to reduce the powerlevel, like in magic where there is legacy and vintage
If Blizzard nerf mage. Priest and warlock Will rise again with the darkest time warlock and Reno priest
Couldn't agree more. It's just an absolutely insane mechanic, getting an extra turn and balancing it is tough.
My solution would probably be something like make Time Warp cost 10 mana or something.
I always hated Quest Mages, because they always go for OTKs and I despise OTKs, even when they're not strong and they should never be strong and viable in my opinion.
I think it’s funny that the whole point of wild is that it’s supposed to be busted and yet people are always complaining about it...this is why I avoid that nonsense like the plague.
It should be busted to an extent which is unavoidable, but when it becomes genuinely uninteractive where opponents can't do anything, then it's a problem like snip snap lock, and naga giant warlock.
The other deck is Buster but they had counter. This deck doesnt have counterplay. Even pirate warriror cant win vs mage. Because1 mana freeze card spam
What is next ? darkest hour warlock ? mecha'thun ? people always gonna complain about a tier one deck....
Hit legend earlier today in wild and out of my last 24 games playing as Jade Druid, 58% were against Quest Mage that's insane! One class more than all the others put together. The deck is not difficult to pilot either so not sure where you guys are coming from with that argument. Biggest culprit is definitely Vargoth and having 3 turns, but having extra turns in card games always ends up being a broken mechanic and Blizz will be nerfing this in some way soon I'm sure. It's just way too strong. I even lost a game with a full board and 60+ armour after popping the ice block which felt ridiculous!