I used to be able to make a home brew deck, and win at least 50% of my games, regardless of the meta, or the deck used. These days, it just doesnt seem like thats possible. It feels like if I dont play a meta deck, and a good one at that, then I cant win games and enjoy the process!
The game demands I play either a super fast aggro deck, which I find absolutely boring, or I play one of the top tier meta decks, that have broken plays as the norm.
Personally, I dont particularly like that fact. I havent enjoyed this last expansion very much. This whole year has created a game where broken plays decide games almost instantly.
I primarliy play control type decks, or curvestone style. I like to plan ahead, use my health as a resource, and drain my opponent of resources, counter their deck, and win a long game.
Nowadays, thats just not possible unless im in a control mirror match. Now, I can be ahead 6 cards in fatigue, control the board, have more health than my opponent, and just lose the game on the spot cuz Rouge just drew 7 cards for that cost 0 mana. Thats just 1 example.
I know the game of HS is RNG related, and those swing plays, or busted plays, are a central part of the game. But there was still SOME sembelance of strategy and tactics. There was still a feeling, that if I manage my resources correctly, I can account for the opponents swing turns, and still pull ahead in the end. Not now though.
Now, the game feels even more like, if my opponent just draws or plays a certain card, I lose. Regardless of the fact I was winning, or controlling the pace of the game etc.....
Theres too many ways the game rewards players who just add a certain few cards, and punishes those who dont.
I really took pride in playing my own decks and still managing to do sort of well. Now, I feel like if I dont auto include certain cards, I cant achieve any real progress.
I know I could just copy and paste a meta deck, but I dont enjoy that very much. I would rather play and learn thru trial and error what works.
The game doesnt really let me do that as much, and I feel kinda bummed out about it.
Just sharing my thoughts. Not meant to be a salt thread, just how I feel about the games direction lately.
I look forward to the rotation, cuz everything will be brand new again. I really enjoy the game then because everybody is exploring and trying new things, new ideas.
At least for a few days anyways!!
Stay safe everyone. Wash your hands, and give em hell!!
As a result, I have started playing top level Chess again, and some PC games as well. So I guess I have HS to thank for that, cuz it used to be the only game I played for quite ahwile!!!!
Look on the bright side as my grannie used to say!!
you're right. point is DoD meta decks win games *alone* and you can't do *anything* against them especially when they are lucky. it's like this from beginning of this expansion: what could u do against a pre-nerf galakrond shaman or pre-nerf deathrattle rogue when it was lucky? nothing. same thing with present meta decks, f.e. embiggen druid if it's lucky, galakrond rogue if it draws right fkin 0 mana cards and discovers right stuff, mech pala, mage with good rng, etc. Sometimes u can aggro them (using others filthy decks), that's all. meta rarely has been so meaningless, stupid and annoying.
next expansion seems more reasonable and fun, but if u see upcoming new ranked system, it incentivates to think like "i'll reach my usual rank 15 and i'll be satisfied with it, i must get used to it, i'll not try to climb". bonus until your precedent month's rank then stop. i think that's why developers know that if you don't use lamest meta decks it's impossible to climb, you are "deck-locked", you can't obtain consistently let's say 60% winrate with all those times you'll face decks which win alone if lucky, there aren't other factors, skill/experience don't count anymore. so i'm not confident about a radical change of philosophy of devs....and anyway DoD cards will last for another year.
I get where you're coming from, The final expansion is always the least fun imo, as it has the most amount of cards. With a large card pool, decks are more refined so off-meta decks will not fare too well.
It's almost like the game is many years old at this point and not only has the card pool and deck types increased to a point where it's gotten optimized over a long period of time, it's also almost like players have gotten so much better at the game that suboptimal decks are now in fact also suboptimal.
If you wanna play control , go Wild. In Standard, Rogue spoil the fun with their infinite value lackey bullshit. And midrange decks are weak now, due to so many good rush minions. Ahead on board mean less now because rush minions can neutralize that quick.
And Hearthstone at the moment is not Hearthstone like you said, for a long time. Tempo, card advantage mean jack shit. The whole mana cheat stuff ruining the game for many people. But Blizzard keep printing cards like that.
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
I can understand your impression, but I'd say that we've been having this situation for several expansions now.
The problem with "home-brewn" decks is, that this is often a synonym for "not optimized", so hoping for a larger than 50% winrate isn't really realistic.
I also enjoy playing my own created decks the most. Reaching rank 5 with those is about the maximum I can hope for. But I had to got used to the fact that it might take several expansions, until I got enough cards to make new ideas work.
Demonhunter might keep Roque in check, as they're even faster, but that is my only hope, as I'am sick and tired of Galakrond Highlander Roque destroying Control decks with lame cards like Sap, Shadowstep and Heistbaron Togwaggle.
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
Way too expensive.
After the recent buff Reno Priest is a very viable choice and not too expensive. You only need Reno, Kazakus, Shadowreaper
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
Way too expensive.
It isn't. The most powerful decks are the cheapest like Mech Paladin, Mech Hunter and Secret Mage. After playing 1 day i managed to craft all cards for these decks starting with a new account and hitting at least rank 5.
...thats what HSreplay shows, yet for some mysterious reason I play versus approx 40% Galakrond Highlander Roque in Ranked, which also happens to be the only deck that feels really unfair to play against, so I guess, its the hidden "Tier S - 60% Winrate" deck that Valeera herself shadow cloaked from Meta Stats xD
...thats what HSreplay shows, yet for some mysterious reason I play versus approx 40% Galakrond Highlander Roque in Ranked, which also happens to be the only deck that feels really unfair to play against, so I guess, its the hidden "Tier S - 60% Winrate" deck that Valeera herself shadow cloaked from Meta Stats xD
Honestly, what is actually unbalanced and what feels bad to play against are rarely the same thing. A deck "feeling unfair" to play against means absolutely nothing in regards to whether or not it's balanced, our perception tends to make those decks seem better than they are most of the time.
It's because HSReplay, unless Premium, show stats combined from all 25 ranks.
Even with all the 0 mana possibilities, RNG and discover effects, bad players really can't climb out of 20-10 with Rogue and Mage, so they bring the winrate way down, and aggro, specially Mech Paladin and Dragon Hunter, are far more popular at lower ranks and zip through the bad players that can't play against fast aggression.
At higher ranks this considerably change.
Also, I knew that almost every thread recently opened complaining about the meta, the RNG, the luck and etc are mostly from control fatigue players.
I do miss games where resources were more limited and extra generation less, but after the Dr.Boom/Elysiana fiasco of months during Specialist, and the OTK meta previously, they started printing more bombastic and unfair late "win conditions" (specially around Discover and mana cheating) to allow games to be closed out instead of going all the way to fatigue.
For the complains of ResidentSleeper Control and uninteractive OTK metas, their solution to allow "control" or more late oriented games was to implement a lot of mana cheating and/or RNG/Discover to avoid fatigue games and OTKs, in hope Discover and RNG goes for the unpredictable, but interactive game. In their thinking, at least.
Sadly, that's the way they apparently want to continue to do so.
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
Way too expensive.
If you have played for a long time = have a good collection, wild is arguably cheaper than standard or it is for me at least. Of course if you don't have cards from old sets it can be harder to get into, but there are decent budget friendly decks in wild too.
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I used to be able to make a home brew deck, and win at least 50% of my games, regardless of the meta, or the deck used. These days, it just doesnt seem like thats possible. It feels like if I dont play a meta deck, and a good one at that, then I cant win games and enjoy the process!
The game demands I play either a super fast aggro deck, which I find absolutely boring, or I play one of the top tier meta decks, that have broken plays as the norm.
Personally, I dont particularly like that fact. I havent enjoyed this last expansion very much. This whole year has created a game where broken plays decide games almost instantly.
I primarliy play control type decks, or curvestone style. I like to plan ahead, use my health as a resource, and drain my opponent of resources, counter their deck, and win a long game.
Nowadays, thats just not possible unless im in a control mirror match. Now, I can be ahead 6 cards in fatigue, control the board, have more health than my opponent, and just lose the game on the spot cuz Rouge just drew 7 cards for that cost 0 mana. Thats just 1 example.
I know the game of HS is RNG related, and those swing plays, or busted plays, are a central part of the game. But there was still SOME sembelance of strategy and tactics. There was still a feeling, that if I manage my resources correctly, I can account for the opponents swing turns, and still pull ahead in the end. Not now though.
Now, the game feels even more like, if my opponent just draws or plays a certain card, I lose. Regardless of the fact I was winning, or controlling the pace of the game etc.....
Theres too many ways the game rewards players who just add a certain few cards, and punishes those who dont.
I really took pride in playing my own decks and still managing to do sort of well. Now, I feel like if I dont auto include certain cards, I cant achieve any real progress.
I know I could just copy and paste a meta deck, but I dont enjoy that very much. I would rather play and learn thru trial and error what works.
The game doesnt really let me do that as much, and I feel kinda bummed out about it.
Just sharing my thoughts. Not meant to be a salt thread, just how I feel about the games direction lately.
I look forward to the rotation, cuz everything will be brand new again. I really enjoy the game then because everybody is exploring and trying new things, new ideas.
At least for a few days anyways!!
Stay safe everyone. Wash your hands, and give em hell!!
Peace.
As a result, I have started playing top level Chess again, and some PC games as well. So I guess I have HS to thank for that, cuz it used to be the only game I played for quite ahwile!!!!
Look on the bright side as my grannie used to say!!
you're right. point is DoD meta decks win games *alone* and you can't do *anything* against them especially when they are lucky. it's like this from beginning of this expansion: what could u do against a pre-nerf galakrond shaman or pre-nerf deathrattle rogue when it was lucky? nothing. same thing with present meta decks, f.e. embiggen druid if it's lucky, galakrond rogue if it draws right fkin 0 mana cards and discovers right stuff, mech pala, mage with good rng, etc. Sometimes u can aggro them (using others filthy decks), that's all. meta rarely has been so meaningless, stupid and annoying.
next expansion seems more reasonable and fun, but if u see upcoming new ranked system, it incentivates to think like "i'll reach my usual rank 15 and i'll be satisfied with it, i must get used to it, i'll not try to climb". bonus until your precedent month's rank then stop. i think that's why developers know that if you don't use lamest meta decks it's impossible to climb, you are "deck-locked", you can't obtain consistently let's say 60% winrate with all those times you'll face decks which win alone if lucky, there aren't other factors, skill/experience don't count anymore. so i'm not confident about a radical change of philosophy of devs....and anyway DoD cards will last for another year.
I get where you're coming from, The final expansion is always the least fun imo, as it has the most amount of cards. With a large card pool, decks are more refined so off-meta decks will not fare too well.
It's almost like the game is many years old at this point and not only has the card pool and deck types increased to a point where it's gotten optimized over a long period of time, it's also almost like players have gotten so much better at the game that suboptimal decks are now in fact also suboptimal.
If you wanna play control , go Wild. In Standard, Rogue spoil the fun with their infinite value lackey bullshit. And midrange decks are weak now, due to so many good rush minions. Ahead on board mean less now because rush minions can neutralize that quick.
And Hearthstone at the moment is not Hearthstone like you said, for a long time. Tempo, card advantage mean jack shit. The whole mana cheat stuff ruining the game for many people. But Blizzard keep printing cards like that.
I start to play the Looney Tunes game, much better ahah
My routine here is:
Play standard 4 or 5 weeks after a new expansion.
Get bored by THE ONE meta deck that appear,
play wild with a troll deck until I smash the wall of never win again.
Play battleground like 50 matches and get bored.
Wait next expansion.
I am not pushing my self to do that i would like to enjoy more the game, but this is what it is. still ok since I don't put any money in.
Wild is a good place if you wanna play "home brews" as you can go quite far without facing a lot of the op wild meta decks and as for standard, I have had some success with my home brew decks even against the op top tier decks and the current meta isn't that aggressive anymore since rogue isn't as dominant as it was let's say a month or two ago.
Way too expensive.
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
It's always in the last expansion of a cycle. MSOG was the same but much worse due to less balancing.
I can understand your impression, but I'd say that we've been having this situation for several expansions now.
The problem with "home-brewn" decks is, that this is often a synonym for "not optimized", so hoping for a larger than 50% winrate isn't really realistic.
I also enjoy playing my own created decks the most. Reaching rank 5 with those is about the maximum I can hope for. But I had to got used to the fact that it might take several expansions, until I got enough cards to make new ideas work.
Just try to enjoy it as good as you can.
Demonhunter might keep Roque in check, as they're even faster, but that is my only hope, as I'am sick and tired of Galakrond Highlander Roque destroying Control decks with lame cards like Sap, Shadowstep and Heistbaron Togwaggle.
After the recent buff Reno Priest is a very viable choice and not too expensive. You only need Reno, Kazakus, Shadowreaper
It isn't. The most powerful decks are the cheapest like Mech Paladin, Mech Hunter and Secret Mage. After playing 1 day i managed to craft all cards for these decks starting with a new account and hitting at least rank 5.
Always expect the unexpectable!
"most powerful decks"
mhh, lets see....
...thats what HSreplay shows, yet for some mysterious reason I play versus approx 40% Galakrond Highlander Roque in Ranked, which also happens to be the only deck that feels really unfair to play against, so I guess, its the hidden "Tier S - 60% Winrate" deck that Valeera herself shadow cloaked from Meta Stats xD
Honestly, what is actually unbalanced and what feels bad to play against are rarely the same thing. A deck "feeling unfair" to play against means absolutely nothing in regards to whether or not it's balanced, our perception tends to make those decks seem better than they are most of the time.
It's too expensive
Too many sheep copying the same decks
Too much cancer
Zero skill involved
Play Runeterra, much better
It's because HSReplay, unless Premium, show stats combined from all 25 ranks.
Even with all the 0 mana possibilities, RNG and discover effects, bad players really can't climb out of 20-10 with Rogue and Mage, so they bring the winrate way down, and aggro, specially Mech Paladin and Dragon Hunter, are far more popular at lower ranks and zip through the bad players that can't play against fast aggression.
At higher ranks this considerably change.
Also, I knew that almost every thread recently opened complaining about the meta, the RNG, the luck and etc are mostly from control fatigue players.
I do miss games where resources were more limited and extra generation less, but after the Dr.Boom/Elysiana fiasco of months during Specialist, and the OTK meta previously, they started printing more bombastic and unfair late "win conditions" (specially around Discover and mana cheating) to allow games to be closed out instead of going all the way to fatigue.
For the complains of ResidentSleeper Control and uninteractive OTK metas, their solution to allow "control" or more late oriented games was to implement a lot of mana cheating and/or RNG/Discover to avoid fatigue games and OTKs, in hope Discover and RNG goes for the unpredictable, but interactive game. In their thinking, at least.
Sadly, that's the way they apparently want to continue to do so.
Until you get BM' ed by one of the many, many, many Priests who laugh at you with 10 insane mechanics to make you cry. ^^
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If you have played for a long time = have a good collection, wild is arguably cheaper than standard or it is for me at least. Of course if you don't have cards from old sets it can be harder to get into, but there are decent budget friendly decks in wild too.