You are either lucky or not. there is nothing else to it.
You can be good at this game. It's just rng turns a perfectly played game on your part into a win for the opponent that misplayed every turn. I know this is basically what you meant though.
Pick a good deck and from there on every game is like a dice roll.
It really isn't. Sure there is major rng involved as you draw cards, like in any other card game, but you can decide what cards you play and when. That lets you win way more games if you are an experienced player. So stop this bullshit argument...
Pick a good deck and from there on every game is like a dice roll.
It really isn't. Sure there is major rng involved as you draw cards, like in any other card game, but you can decide what cards you play and when. That lets you win way more games if you are an experienced player. So stop this bullshit argument...
Oh my. It is NOT just card draw RNG - thats what it used to be until they invoked the Vegas clause where EVERY game is a @#$% clown fiesta dice roll as to what BS you're going to have to deal with. What game are you playing? Unlimited discovery, unlimited lackeys, multiple copies of spells you should only have two of, multiple copies of minions you shouldnt even have access to, Swing turns that instantly win you the game which require ZERO skill at all other than sitting there fondling your sack, Bailout cards/turns to save you when 2 years ago you would have rightfully been dead, etc, etc. Oh dont forget Face HunTARD which is there for the window-licking population to thrive on. <<<< :D
Which part did you miss? Are you playing a version of the game in some time capsule where skill had *some* outcome on the game? PLease share this mode. I want to play it too, please.
Complaining about unlimited lackeys and discoveries? Where have YOU been in the past metas?
Deathstalker Rexxar, Dr.Boom were also infinite discovery. DK Jaina and Jade Idols also offered near unlimited value as well.
Omega Assembly, Boom Discovery, Dire Frenzy, etc... we had multiple options that gave peoplem more than 2 copies only "that they should have access".
RNG? Where have you been with Yogg-Saron deciding tournaments, Barnes Hunter highrolling, Hare Evolve Shaman, pre-nerf Conjurer's Mage, Spiteful Sumomoner, and even Ragnaros shots winning matches and etc?
Complaining about Face Hunter, a near dead deck on ladder outside rank 20? As if we didn't have Aggro Shaman, Odd Paladin, Odd Rogue, Raiding Party Rogue, Pirate Warrior, Murloc Paladin, Aluneth Mage and etc...
Really curious to what meta you defined and played as being purely on "non-swing, non-RNG, non-discovery, non-face"...
As with other threads complaining about the same stuff, just like the authors of those threads, it seems like you favor a do-nothing fatigue control playstyle. Which would be fitting, considering you're both against aggro as brainless and also against tons of extra value generation, which crushes those types of control decks.
This isn't a debate when framed properly; it's a very simple set of premises with an undeniable conclusion.
Simply observing who obtains legend is not a relevant way of deciding whether skill is a relevant indicator of performance in this game. Those that insist on resting their entire argument on the fact that some decks can be piloted to a 51% win rate with very little variance in play, and that therefore it's only a matter of time investment to get to legend, are not discussing anything relevant to the question at hand.
Instead, take a look at . . . let's say the top 20 finishers in any given ladder (NA, Europe, etc). Watch how often the same names appear over and over again. Note that within the top 500 or so legend, those same decks that were so easy to maintain a 51% win rate before take a nose dive in win potential except when played by these same individuals. You reach an inescapable conclusion.
That was the four sentence version of something I have repeatedly typed out over pages. If you actually care about understanding exactly where skill becomes the primary consideration in this game, go to my post history. I've done this too many times to type the whole thing out again. Suffice it to say, you have to stop using "I reached legend one month" as the definition of a skilled player if you want to have an honest discussion about this.
Very much looking forward to being back in the game. Btw, throwing down the gauntlet now. I will be the first demon hunter to 500 wins.
toodaloo
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This isn't a debate when framed properly; it's a very simple set of premises with an undeniable conclusion.
Simply observing who obtains legend is not a relevant way of deciding whether skill is a relevant indicator of performance in this game. Those that insist on resting their entire argument on the fact that some decks can be piloted to a 51% win rate with very little variance in play, and that therefore it's only a matter of time investment to get to legend, are not discussing anything relevant to the question at hand.
Instead, take a look at . . . let's say the top 20 finishers in any given ladder (NA, Europe, etc). Watch how often the same names appear over and over again. Note that within the top 500 or so legend, those same decks that were so easy to maintain a 51% win rate before take a nose dive in win potential except when played by these same individuals. You reach an inescapable conclusion.
That was the four sentence version of something I have repeatedly typed out over pages. If you actually care about understanding exactly where skill becomes the primary consideration in this game, go to my post history. I've done this too many times to type the whole thing out again. Suffice it to say, you have to stop using "I reached legend one month" as the definition of a skilled player if you want to have an honest discussion about this.
Very much looking forward to being back in the game. Btw, throwing down the gauntlet now. I will be the first demon hunter to 500 wins.
toodaloo
Cannot agree more.
For example: I'd say i'm pretty average reaching legend every third or forth month while having a fulltime job (i'm almost 30). But i'm nowhere near those top players. I only reached something like Top 40 in wild and Top 200 in Standard. It is actually skill to get there.
Back to OP: If you feel like you cannot get a foot into the door. Just try out what deck is fun to play for you, stick to it and you will have success with it. Kibler does that all the time. At least if you call success to reach Rank 5 (new Diamond Ranks) or legend.
Well with your busy life and lack of time to watch players with acne, you have time to debate why you think a game is so awful on a message board dedicated to said game. Isn't that a bit pathetic? If you don't like HS anymore why are you here? I don't like soccer, but I'm not arguing with people why they shouldn't like it either and how they are stupid for liking it. Why would anyone do that and just not be a miserable twerp?
Calm down. Id say this game is about the same level of skill as the board game "Sorry!". Anyone remember or still play that? There are a few minor decisions in that game that *could* under certain circumstances change the final outcome of a game but ultimately the card draw and where you are on the board determines the outcome. Same thing here. If this game was mostly skill then there wouldnt be top decks because the gurus would be able to take any old slapped together deck and just blow through everyone. But they dont. They play the busted stuff too. This just in. If not, please provide an unedited run of some basic/classic card only deck being taken to legend quickly by one of the do-gooders. Until proof like that exists?, No go deal.
At tournaments not only do the "best" players bring the Tier 1A stuff but the even get to BAN a class which makes no sense becasue if they are so good then they should be able to adjust, play around, anticipate, etc, etc. But, they dont. They "puss out" and ban their bad matchups. How convenient?
Whatever, I just goof around now anyways. I use weird decks and Tier5 crap so it isnt so boring and without even trying I can easily win half my games or thereabouts. If that isnt proof that its mostly all luck and matchup I dont what is.
No, it's just like most games where most people don't actually bother to learn to maximize their results, and they read it as random. Most people think gin rummy for example is brainless, but it's actually a card counting game. Just because you can't be bothered to learn how to hold cards in the correct situation, read someone elses' hand, modify a deck to be better against the meta, count the cards in the other players hand etc. doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes sometimes someone just outdraws you, but about 40 to 50% of games are decided by skill alone, but someone who never takes the time to understand where they missed extra reach, where they should have traded instead, when to hold that rotnest, etc can never maximize their outcomes. If I say "it's random" that automatically sets me up to be stupid enough not to look for where I can improve, because under the projection of random there's "nothing I could do" because it was "random" so why would I waste energy becoming better? And yes, you better bet when I play sorry I strategically bring out my new pieces at the right time to stomp on that other players @ss.
Read your opponents hand? HUH? When 90% of the game is discovering shit that didnt start in your hand? Is that what you're going with? What game are you playing again? Please enlighten us.
A) 90% of the game is not discovering something that was in your hand,
B) Choosing on Discovery is important
C)Holding discovery is important
D) Holding what's discovered to the correct time is important
E) There are many powerful things to do besides discover.
F) You probably haven't even mastered the basic skill of when to trade and when to go face, because it's actually one of the hardest skills in the game.
That's just one section of your complaints where you're clearly wrong. Keep bringing up more Unthoughtful comments. I know they all will be because you've decided the game is RNG... so there's no point in you actually thinking which means you can never actually get better. It's a fundamental flaw in becoming better to think things are RNG. Sure the 3 things you discover are RNG, but that doesn't erase the myriad of other skills it actually takes to play the game, or the choice of what to discover and what to hold etc. Anyway there's no convincing you, you can never get better because you don't actually practice with positive outcomes in mind.
Well with your busy life and lack of time to watch players with acne, you have time to debate why you think a game is so awful on a message board dedicated to said game. Isn't that a bit pathetic? If you don't like HS anymore why are you here? I don't like soccer, but I'm not arguing with people why they shouldn't like it either and how they are stupid for liking it. Why would anyone do that and just not be a miserable twerp?
Calm down. Id say this game is about the same level of skill as the board game "Sorry!". Anyone remember or still play that? There are a few minor decisions in that game that *could* under certain circumstances change the final outcome of a game but ultimately the card draw and where you are on the board determines the outcome. Same thing here. If this game was mostly skill then there wouldnt be top decks because the gurus would be able to take any old slapped together deck and just blow through everyone. But they dont. They play the busted stuff too. This just in. If not, please provide an unedited run of some basic/classic card only deck being taken to legend quickly by one of the do-gooders. Until proof like that exists?, No go deal.
At tournaments not only do the "best" players bring the Tier 1A stuff but the even get to BAN a class which makes no sense becasue if they are so good then they should be able to adjust, play around, anticipate, etc, etc. But, they dont. They "puss out" and ban their bad matchups. How convenient?
Whatever, I just goof around now anyways. I use weird decks and Tier5 crap so it isnt so boring and without even trying I can easily win half my games or thereabouts. If that isnt proof that its mostly all luck and matchup I dont what is.
No, it's just like most games where most people don't actually bother to learn to maximize their results, and they read it as random. Most people think gin rummy for example is brainless, but it's actually a card counting game. Just because you can't be bothered to learn how to hold cards in the correct situation, read someone elses' hand, modify a deck to be better against the meta, count the cards in the other players hand etc. doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes sometimes someone just outdraws you, but about 40 to 50% of games are decided by skill alone, but someone who never takes the time to understand where they missed extra reach, where they should have traded instead, when to hold that rotnest, etc can never maximize their outcomes. If I say "it's random" that automatically sets me up to be stupid enough not to look for where I can improve, because under the projection of random there's "nothing I could do" because it was "random" so why would I waste energy becoming better? And yes, you better bet when I play sorry I strategically bring out my new pieces at the right time to stomp on that other players @ss.
Read your opponents hand? HUH? When 90% of the game is discovering shit that didnt start in your hand? Is that what you're going with? What game are you playing again? Please enlighten us.
A) 90% of the game is not discovering something that was in your hand,
B) Choosing on Discovery is important
C)Holding discovery is important
D) Holding what's discovered to the correct time is important
E) There are many powerful things to do besides discover.
F) You probably haven't even mastered the basic skill of when to trade and when to go face, because it's actually one of the hardest skills in the game.
That's just one section of your complaints where you're clearly wrong. Keep bringing up more Unthoughtful comments. I know they all will be because you've decided the game is RNG... so there's no point in you actually thinking which means you can never actually get better. It's a fundamental flaw in becoming better to think things are RNG. Sure the 3 things you discover are RNG, but that doesn't erase the myriad of other skills it actually takes to play the game, or the choice of what to discover and what to hold etc. Anyway there's no convincing you, you can never get better because you don't actually practice with positive outcomes in mind.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton. C'mon. Its a hyper-RNG card game. Its fine if some of you have convinced yourself that you're really good at the game. Bring your "high skill level" crappy deck against a Tier 1 deck piltoted by a basic everyday player and watch the losses pile up for you. If the game was mostly skill based then the alleged best players could beat anyone with any deck, anytime. But alas, they cant. WHY is that? Oh..wait.... the superior decision making and intricate understanding of the meta should grant them easy wins every time. Right?
I wonder why most win-rates hover around 50% for like everyone? A few dip itno the 47% rage and some break out onto the 52% range. But 50% is the very common median point for player win %. I wonder why? Must just be one of those statistical things.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton. C'mon. Its a hyper-RNG card game. Its fine if some of you have convinced yourself that you're really good at the game. Bring your "high skill level" crappy deck against a Tier 1 deck piltoted by a basic everyday player and watch the losses pile up for you. If the game was mostly skill based then the alleged best players could beat anyone with any deck, anytime. But alas, they cant. WHY is that? Oh..wait.... the superior decision making and intricate understanding of the meta should grant them easy wins every time. Right?
I wonder why most win-rates hover around 50% for like everyone? A few dip itno the 47% rage and some break out onto the 52% range. But 50% is the very common median point for player win %. I wonder why? Must just be one of those statistical things.
Winrates for climbing players are way higher than 50%. I had 68% with Galakrond Warlock at January, 63% at February, 55% at March due to heavy meta changes. Had 55% with Gala Warrior too, and my Mech Paladin has 71%. If your winrate is 50-51%... you're practically not climbing at all.
If you watch some streamers now and then, you can see them going over 60% very frequently as well.
And now, again, you fail to address the question I asked earlier: what decks and in what meta you considered skilled, non-RNG, non-discovery, non-face, non-highroll swing? I'm really curious.
And also again, the point about "players climbing with any deck against T1" is pure bullshit, just like a GM in chess will also have losses piling up if he handicaps himself by only playing his pawns even against everyday chess players. You can see the difference when one guy with the same 30 cards is at high Legend, and the other can't get past rank 15. No need to handicap yourself with non-sense to prove anything.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton.
Of all sports out there, you choose to mention Golf and Badminton to make a point... Why? Do you want to sound special or something? I guess you must be from England, but let me tell you those sports are not very common in most countries and Golf is very well known for being boring as f..k! Even Hearthstone, a childrens' card game, is superior to it in fun terms. I started Functional Boxing since not so long ago. Boxing requieres an insane amount of practice and preparation. It's a sport full of adrenaline and a lot of fun, not like Golf, where you can fall asleep playing it. XD
Well with your busy life and lack of time to watch players with acne, you have time to debate why you think a game is so awful on a message board dedicated to said game. Isn't that a bit pathetic? If you don't like HS anymore why are you here? I don't like soccer, but I'm not arguing with people why they shouldn't like it either and how they are stupid for liking it. Why would anyone do that and just not be a miserable twerp?
Calm down. Id say this game is about the same level of skill as the board game "Sorry!". Anyone remember or still play that? There are a few minor decisions in that game that *could* under certain circumstances change the final outcome of a game but ultimately the card draw and where you are on the board determines the outcome. Same thing here. If this game was mostly skill then there wouldnt be top decks because the gurus would be able to take any old slapped together deck and just blow through everyone. But they dont. They play the busted stuff too. This just in. If not, please provide an unedited run of some basic/classic card only deck being taken to legend quickly by one of the do-gooders. Until proof like that exists?, No go deal.
At tournaments not only do the "best" players bring the Tier 1A stuff but the even get to BAN a class which makes no sense becasue if they are so good then they should be able to adjust, play around, anticipate, etc, etc. But, they dont. They "puss out" and ban their bad matchups. How convenient?
Whatever, I just goof around now anyways. I use weird decks and Tier5 crap so it isnt so boring and without even trying I can easily win half my games or thereabouts. If that isnt proof that its mostly all luck and matchup I dont what is.
No, it's just like most games where most people don't actually bother to learn to maximize their results, and they read it as random. Most people think gin rummy for example is brainless, but it's actually a card counting game. Just because you can't be bothered to learn how to hold cards in the correct situation, read someone elses' hand, modify a deck to be better against the meta, count the cards in the other players hand etc. doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes sometimes someone just outdraws you, but about 40 to 50% of games are decided by skill alone, but someone who never takes the time to understand where they missed extra reach, where they should have traded instead, when to hold that rotnest, etc can never maximize their outcomes. If I say "it's random" that automatically sets me up to be stupid enough not to look for where I can improve, because under the projection of random there's "nothing I could do" because it was "random" so why would I waste energy becoming better? And yes, you better bet when I play sorry I strategically bring out my new pieces at the right time to stomp on that other players @ss.
Read your opponents hand? HUH? When 90% of the game is discovering shit that didnt start in your hand? Is that what you're going with? What game are you playing again? Please enlighten us.
A) 90% of the game is not discovering something that was in your hand,
B) Choosing on Discovery is important
C)Holding discovery is important
D) Holding what's discovered to the correct time is important
E) There are many powerful things to do besides discover.
F) You probably haven't even mastered the basic skill of when to trade and when to go face, because it's actually one of the hardest skills in the game.
That's just one section of your complaints where you're clearly wrong. Keep bringing up more Unthoughtful comments. I know they all will be because you've decided the game is RNG... so there's no point in you actually thinking which means you can never actually get better. It's a fundamental flaw in becoming better to think things are RNG. Sure the 3 things you discover are RNG, but that doesn't erase the myriad of other skills it actually takes to play the game, or the choice of what to discover and what to hold etc. Anyway there's no convincing you, you can never get better because you don't actually practice with positive outcomes in mind.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton. C'mon. Its a hyper-RNG card game. Its fine if some of you have convinced yourself that you're really good at the game. Bring your "high skill level" crappy deck against a Tier 1 deck piltoted by a basic everyday player and watch the losses pile up for you. If the game was mostly skill based then the alleged best players could beat anyone with any deck, anytime. But alas, they cant. WHY is that? Oh..wait.... the superior decision making and intricate understanding of the meta should grant them easy wins every time. Right?
I wonder why most win-rates hover around 50% for like everyone? A few dip itno the 47% rage and some break out onto the 52% range. But 50% is the very common median point for player win %. I wonder why? Must just be one of those statistical things.
I am sorry that you are terrible at this game. I really am. I've seen people struggle to even get rank 10, and most of them fall in the exact same category as you: "everything is RNG", "this is bullshit", etc.; while the good players effortlessly get Legend every month playing meme decks and in a few hours. I remember when I played I got Legend every month without barely any effort, but that's because I've played card games for a long time (Magic, etc) and I know exactly when to trade, go face, board control, I know the meta, I know how to play around cards, etc. I am, objectively, skilled at this game due to my experience.
There's a reason while the top players every month are basically the same. Also, you watch people like Kibler who play terrible decks and get to Legend due to their insane skill, and you can't avoid being marveled at their decision making. It's pretty amazing watching him play.
So the only thing I can say is: stop making excuses for your terribleness, watch tutorials to try and improve and go for it! I don't wanna say it in a condescending manner, I think every player can get to Legend if they get a solid grasp of, basically, value trading and knowing when to role-switch. That's it. Cheers.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton.
Of all sports out there, you choose to mention Golf and Badminton to make a point... Why? Do you want to sound special or something? I guess you must be from England, but let me tell you those sports are not very common in most countries and Golf is very well known for being boring as f..k! Even Hearthstone, a childrens' card game, is superior to it in fun terms. I do Functional Boxing since not so long ago. Boxing requieres an insane amount of practice and preparation. It's a sport full of adrenaline and a lot of fun, not like Golf, where you could fall asleep playing it. ;)
I don't know where you're from, but in North America, there are far more golfers than "functional boxers"... there's 18,000 golf courses in the US, and "7,049 fitness locations in the United States that advertise boxing equipment as well as about 242 boxing gyms, for a total of 7,291 gyms".
That doesn't even take into account the fact that each of those golf courses accommodates 10 times the number of players every day.
I joined a boxing gym when I was 9, and sparred until I was 15. I play golf over some beers with some friends on occasion... in my opinion, golfing is harder. The techniques are also much harder to learn.
Professional boxers can still compete with brain damage. I doubt they'd be able to hit a tiny ball with a stick 3 times to get it in a hole a 1/4 mile away.
They picked those 2 sports, because they don't take physical prowess. Much like Hearthstone. Maybe bowling would have been a better analogy for you?
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton.
Of all sports out there, you choose to mention Golf and Badminton to make a point... Why? Do you want to sound special or something? I guess you must be from England, but let me tell you those sports are not very common in most countries and Golf is very well known for being boring as f..k! Even Hearthstone, a childrens' card game, is superior to it in fun terms. I do Functional Boxing since not so long ago. Boxing requieres an insane amount of practice and preparation. It's a sport full of adrenaline and a lot of fun, not like Golf, where you could fall asleep playing it. ;)
I don't know where you're from, but in North America, there are far more golfers than "functional boxers"... there's 18,000 golf courses in the US, and "7,049 fitness locations in the United States that advertise boxing equipment as well as about 242 boxing gyms, for a total of 7,291 gyms".
That doesn't even take into account the fact that each of those golf courses accommodates 10 times the number of players every day.
I joined a boxing gym when I was 9, and sparred until I was 15. I play golf over some beers with some friends on occasion... in my opinion, golfing is harder. The techniques are also much harder to learn.
Professional boxers can still compete with brain damage. I doubt they'd be able to hit a tiny ball with a stick 3 times to get it in a hole a 1/4 mile away.
They picked those 2 sports, because they don't take physical prowess. Much like Hearthstone. Maybe bowling would have been a better analogy for you?
I clearly said "not very common in most countries". Sorry to burst your bubble, but North America doesn't represent the rest of the world. ;)
Shall I post the global stats? I think Africa might be the only continent where boxing surpasses golfing, but I would need to do more research. Regardless, globally, golf is a more widespread sport, probably due to the fact most will be terrible, but anyone can play, regardless of physical ability, and due to it's social nature.
Shall I post the global stats? I think Africa might be the only continent where boxing surpasses golfing, but I would need to do more research. Regardless, globally, golf is a more widespread sport, probably due to the fact most will be terrible, but anyone can play, regardless of physical ability, and due to it's social nature.
That inclusive enough?
Wow, this guy...
This list is a bit old (2005) but I guess it still counts (especially because the difference between Boxing and Golf is huge):
Shall I post the global stats? I think Africa might be the only continent where boxing surpasses golfing, but I would need to do more research. Regardless, globally, golf is a more widespread sport, probably due to the fact most will be terrible, but anyone can play, regardless of physical ability, and due to it's social nature.
That inclusive enough?
Wow, this guy...
This list is a bit old (2005) but I guess it still counts (especially because the difference between Boxing and Golf is huge):
This list does not really show how popular a sport is, as even though a country may have a national federation, the sport many not be played by many people in that country."
This guy! Maybe read your own stats before you post them. Those are national federations recognized by the Olympics.
Most golfing is recreational, and OBVIOUSLY doesn't require the administration of a "national federation", whereby boxing generally requires oversight. "Recreational Boxing" in a park is generally considered illegal.
Shall I post the global stats? I think Africa might be the only continent where boxing surpasses golfing, but I would need to do more research. Regardless, globally, golf is a more widespread sport, probably due to the fact most will be terrible, but anyone can play, regardless of physical ability, and due to it's social nature.
That inclusive enough?
Wow, this guy...
This list is a bit old (2005) but I guess it still counts (especially because the difference between Boxing and Golf is huge):
This list does not really show how popular a sport is, as even though a country may have a national federation, the sport many not be played by many people in that country."
This guy! Maybe read your own stats before you post them. Those are national federations recognized by the Olympics.
Most golfing is recreational, and OBVIOUSLY doesn't require the administration of a "national federation", whereby boxing generally requires oversight. "Recreational Boxing" in a park is generally considered illegal.
Wanna try again?
Dude, are you for real? That shit almost doesn't matter in that case because as I said before the difference between Boxing and Golf shown there is huge. Chances of Golf being more popular around the world are low because of that. But ok, yeah, it still possible because Rugby is very low on that list and everyone knows how popular it is. That is why here is another one, with a better criteria (including Accesible to general public worldwide) to show you that Boxing is much more popular than silly Golf:
Biggest competition & (number of countries represented)
Social media presence
Prominence in sports headlines on media outlets (websites, tv)
Relevancy through the year
Regional dominance
Gender equality
Accessible to general public worldwide
Also:
"Amature boxing is also part of Olympics and it is one of the popular events during every olympic event. Unlike professional boxing, Amature boxing is represented by more countries in olympics making it global sport and one of the most accessible around the world."
You can be good at this game. It's just rng turns a perfectly played game on your part into a win for the opponent that misplayed every turn. I know this is basically what you meant though.
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
You can't be bad or good in hearthstone.
Pick a good deck and from there on every game is like a dice roll.
It really isn't. Sure there is major rng involved as you draw cards, like in any other card game, but you can decide what cards you play and when. That lets you win way more games if you are an experienced player. So stop this bullshit argument...
Oh my. It is NOT just card draw RNG - thats what it used to be until they invoked the Vegas clause where EVERY game is a @#$% clown fiesta dice roll as to what BS you're going to have to deal with. What game are you playing? Unlimited discovery, unlimited lackeys, multiple copies of spells you should only have two of, multiple copies of minions you shouldnt even have access to, Swing turns that instantly win you the game which require ZERO skill at all other than sitting there fondling your sack, Bailout cards/turns to save you when 2 years ago you would have rightfully been dead, etc, etc. Oh dont forget Face HunTARD which is there for the window-licking population to thrive on. <<<< :D
Which part did you miss? Are you playing a version of the game in some time capsule where skill had *some* outcome on the game? PLease share this mode. I want to play it too, please.
Complaining about unlimited lackeys and discoveries? Where have YOU been in the past metas?
Deathstalker Rexxar, Dr.Boom were also infinite discovery. DK Jaina and Jade Idols also offered near unlimited value as well.
Omega Assembly, Boom Discovery, Dire Frenzy, etc... we had multiple options that gave peoplem more than 2 copies only "that they should have access".
RNG? Where have you been with Yogg-Saron deciding tournaments, Barnes Hunter highrolling, Hare Evolve Shaman, pre-nerf Conjurer's Mage, Spiteful Sumomoner, and even Ragnaros shots winning matches and etc?
Complaining about Face Hunter, a near dead deck on ladder outside rank 20? As if we didn't have Aggro Shaman, Odd Paladin, Odd Rogue, Raiding Party Rogue, Pirate Warrior, Murloc Paladin, Aluneth Mage and etc...
Really curious to what meta you defined and played as being purely on "non-swing, non-RNG, non-discovery, non-face"...
As with other threads complaining about the same stuff, just like the authors of those threads, it seems like you favor a do-nothing fatigue control playstyle. Which would be fitting, considering you're both against aggro as brainless and also against tons of extra value generation, which crushes those types of control decks.
This isn't a debate when framed properly; it's a very simple set of premises with an undeniable conclusion.
Simply observing who obtains legend is not a relevant way of deciding whether skill is a relevant indicator of performance in this game. Those that insist on resting their entire argument on the fact that some decks can be piloted to a 51% win rate with very little variance in play, and that therefore it's only a matter of time investment to get to legend, are not discussing anything relevant to the question at hand.
Instead, take a look at . . . let's say the top 20 finishers in any given ladder (NA, Europe, etc). Watch how often the same names appear over and over again. Note that within the top 500 or so legend, those same decks that were so easy to maintain a 51% win rate before take a nose dive in win potential except when played by these same individuals. You reach an inescapable conclusion.
That was the four sentence version of something I have repeatedly typed out over pages. If you actually care about understanding exactly where skill becomes the primary consideration in this game, go to my post history. I've done this too many times to type the whole thing out again. Suffice it to say, you have to stop using "I reached legend one month" as the definition of a skilled player if you want to have an honest discussion about this.
Very much looking forward to being back in the game. Btw, throwing down the gauntlet now. I will be the first demon hunter to 500 wins.
toodaloo
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Cannot agree more.
For example: I'd say i'm pretty average reaching legend every third or forth month while having a fulltime job (i'm almost 30). But i'm nowhere near those top players. I only reached something like Top 40 in wild and Top 200 in Standard. It is actually skill to get there.
Back to OP: If you feel like you cannot get a foot into the door. Just try out what deck is fun to play for you, stick to it and you will have success with it. Kibler does that all the time. At least if you call success to reach Rank 5 (new Diamond Ranks) or legend.
A) 90% of the game is not discovering something that was in your hand,
B) Choosing on Discovery is important
C)Holding discovery is important
D) Holding what's discovered to the correct time is important
E) There are many powerful things to do besides discover.
F) You probably haven't even mastered the basic skill of when to trade and when to go face, because it's actually one of the hardest skills in the game.
That's just one section of your complaints where you're clearly wrong. Keep bringing up more Unthoughtful comments. I know they all will be because you've decided the game is RNG... so there's no point in you actually thinking which means you can never actually get better. It's a fundamental flaw in becoming better to think things are RNG. Sure the 3 things you discover are RNG, but that doesn't erase the myriad of other skills it actually takes to play the game, or the choice of what to discover and what to hold etc. Anyway there's no convincing you, you can never get better because you don't actually practice with positive outcomes in mind.
Practice? You practice games where theres a lot more under your control Like golf or badminton. C'mon. Its a hyper-RNG card game. Its fine if some of you have convinced yourself that you're really good at the game. Bring your "high skill level" crappy deck against a Tier 1 deck piltoted by a basic everyday player and watch the losses pile up for you. If the game was mostly skill based then the alleged best players could beat anyone with any deck, anytime. But alas, they cant. WHY is that? Oh..wait.... the superior decision making and intricate understanding of the meta should grant them easy wins every time. Right?
I wonder why most win-rates hover around 50% for like everyone? A few dip itno the 47% rage and some break out onto the 52% range. But 50% is the very common median point for player win %. I wonder why? Must just be one of those statistical things.
Welcome to the game! Hope you are learning more and having fun! How has it been going?
Winrates for climbing players are way higher than 50%. I had 68% with Galakrond Warlock at January, 63% at February, 55% at March due to heavy meta changes. Had 55% with Gala Warrior too, and my Mech Paladin has 71%. If your winrate is 50-51%... you're practically not climbing at all.
If you watch some streamers now and then, you can see them going over 60% very frequently as well.
And now, again, you fail to address the question I asked earlier: what decks and in what meta you considered skilled, non-RNG, non-discovery, non-face, non-highroll swing? I'm really curious.
And also again, the point about "players climbing with any deck against T1" is pure bullshit, just like a GM in chess will also have losses piling up if he handicaps himself by only playing his pawns even against everyday chess players. You can see the difference when one guy with the same 30 cards is at high Legend, and the other can't get past rank 15. No need to handicap yourself with non-sense to prove anything.
Of all sports out there, you choose to mention Golf and Badminton to make a point... Why? Do you want to sound special or something? I guess you must be from England, but let me tell you those sports are not very common in most countries and Golf is very well known for being boring as f..k! Even Hearthstone, a childrens' card game, is superior to it in fun terms. I started Functional Boxing since not so long ago. Boxing requieres an insane amount of practice and preparation. It's a sport full of adrenaline and a lot of fun, not like Golf, where you can fall asleep playing it. XD
I am sorry that you are terrible at this game. I really am. I've seen people struggle to even get rank 10, and most of them fall in the exact same category as you: "everything is RNG", "this is bullshit", etc.; while the good players effortlessly get Legend every month playing meme decks and in a few hours. I remember when I played I got Legend every month without barely any effort, but that's because I've played card games for a long time (Magic, etc) and I know exactly when to trade, go face, board control, I know the meta, I know how to play around cards, etc. I am, objectively, skilled at this game due to my experience.
There's a reason while the top players every month are basically the same. Also, you watch people like Kibler who play terrible decks and get to Legend due to their insane skill, and you can't avoid being marveled at their decision making. It's pretty amazing watching him play.
So the only thing I can say is: stop making excuses for your terribleness, watch tutorials to try and improve and go for it! I don't wanna say it in a condescending manner, I think every player can get to Legend if they get a solid grasp of, basically, value trading and knowing when to role-switch. That's it. Cheers.
I don't know where you're from, but in North America, there are far more golfers than "functional boxers"... there's 18,000 golf courses in the US, and "7,049 fitness locations in the United States that advertise boxing equipment as well as about 242 boxing gyms, for a total of 7,291 gyms".
That doesn't even take into account the fact that each of those golf courses accommodates 10 times the number of players every day.
I joined a boxing gym when I was 9, and sparred until I was 15. I play golf over some beers with some friends on occasion... in my opinion, golfing is harder. The techniques are also much harder to learn.
Professional boxers can still compete with brain damage. I doubt they'd be able to hit a tiny ball with a stick 3 times to get it in a hole a 1/4 mile away.
They picked those 2 sports, because they don't take physical prowess. Much like Hearthstone. Maybe bowling would have been a better analogy for you?
I clearly said "not very common in most countries". Sorry to burst your bubble, but North America doesn't represent the rest of the world. ;)
Shall I post the global stats? I think Africa might be the only continent where boxing surpasses golfing, but I would need to do more research. Regardless, globally, golf is a more widespread sport, probably due to the fact most will be terrible, but anyone can play, regardless of physical ability, and due to it's social nature.
That inclusive enough?
Wow, this guy...
This list is a bit old (2005) but I guess it still counts (especially because the difference between Boxing and Golf is huge):
https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/popular-sport/federations.htm
"Limitations
This guy! Maybe read your own stats before you post them. Those are national federations recognized by the Olympics.
Most golfing is recreational, and OBVIOUSLY doesn't require the administration of a "national federation", whereby boxing generally requires oversight. "Recreational Boxing" in a park is generally considered illegal.
Wanna try again?
Dude, are you for real? That shit almost doesn't matter in that case because as I said before the difference between Boxing and Golf shown there is huge. Chances of Golf being more popular around the world are low because of that. But ok, yeah, it still possible because Rugby is very low on that list and everyone knows how popular it is. That is why here is another one, with a better criteria (including Accesible to general public worldwide) to show you that Boxing is much more popular than silly Golf:
https://www.totalsportek.com/most-popular-sports/
Criteria used
Also:
"Amature boxing is also part of Olympics and it is one of the popular events during every olympic event. Unlike professional boxing, Amature boxing is represented by more countries in olympics making it global sport and one of the most accessible around the world."
Just here enjoying the dumpster fire to lighten up my boring day, thanks guys!
(Also it's not black or white imo, there's both skill and rng needed to win)