I remember back when you sort of had to think about plays, only had to "play around" a few copies of broken/powerful cards. Or when matchups werent so polarizing where even your "worst" ones were still worth playing out. What happened? How or why did this game turn into a slot machine? Why do we have to face decks that literally end up with like 50 or 60 cards? Or, decks that end up with like 4-5 copies of super strong cards that you really shouldnt get to have more than TWO of. How is this good for the game? Theres a reason why powerful cards have deck limits and stuff. Right?
Yeah, yeah, no one liked pure curvestone either but did it have to go this far? Cant we balance it a little better between *some* randomness and "crazy" plays and good old class-only identities/cards? A lot of games you can instantly concede because your chances of winning are somewhere around 0%. And how can you plan out or deal with things that shouldnt even happen? I dont get the attraction to this 100% randomized casino we have now. No skill, no nothing. Just chuck them dice out there....ya know???? :(
competitive mode and mood in this game is just a delusion sometimes illusion other hallucination,it depends on the hours you spend clicking to prove your self that its not a delusion.
Try chess.
Ps. I like the game as it is, its a random fiesta, always been, and a nice way to relax but you just need to not buy the crap about skills and deep thinking about playing around......playing around what exaclty? play some chess or Go and then reconsider the '''play around'' meaning
I remember back when you sort of had to think about plays, only had to "play around" a few copies of broken/powerful cards. Or when matchups werent so polarizing where even your "worst" ones were still worth playing out. What happened? How or why did this game turn into a slot machine? Why do we have to face decks that literally end up with like 50 or 60 cards? Or, decks that end up with like 4-5 copies of super strong cards that you really shouldnt get to have more than TWO of. How is this good for the game? Theres a reason why powerful cards have deck limits and stuff. Right?
Yeah, yeah, no one liked pure curvestone either but did it have to go this far? Cant we balance it a little better between *some* randomness and "crazy" plays and good old class-only identities/cards? A lot of games you can instantly concede because your chances of winning are somewhere around 0%. And how can you plan out or deal with things that shouldnt even happen? I dont get the attraction to this 100% randomized casino we have now. No skill, no nothing. Just chuck them dice out there....ya know???? :(
So if it is 100% randomness then how can you have 0% match ups? Do you have a problem with too much rng or with overpowered deck(s)?
I couldn't agree more with OP. The use RNG and mana cheating is excessive in HS right now. Moderation? yes, by all means, Excess? Never good! I assume you still love the game and you don't want to quit. My advice: you just take a break from HS from time to time until the next expansion/rotation comes, see how things go. Personally, during the breaks I play my favorite games....Grim Dawn, Skyrim, Dying light, Fallout 4..
competitive mode and mood in this game is just a delusion sometimes illusion other hallucination,it depends on the hours you spend clicking to prove your self that its not a delusion.
Try chess.
Ps. I like the game as it is, its a random fiesta, always been, and a nice way to relax but you just need to not buy the crap about skills and deep thinking about playing around......playing around what exaclty? play some chess or Go and then reconsider the '''play around'' meaning
This is all cool, but some people actually want to reach Legend once in this game.
Pendling around between rank 2 and 5 for half a month straight because you can't break even due to the fixed matchmaking in ranked is not fun, and will never be funny.
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
Blizzard has to monitor the amount of times that one gets outcountered in matchmaker already as well as improve ranked Rewards.
The power level of certain cards is very high right now. Highlander cards in particular give so much variance; the main culprit for me is Dragonqueen ... You can go from certain victory with opponent on 1 hp, to 0 mana Nozari followed up with 0 mana Zzeraku and 0% chance of winning in one turn. You can't really play around that, you just have to accept that if they have the card they have a certain chance to rng fiesta you. I think that feels bad, because it makes your earlier turns and gameplay decisions meaningless. However, the rng also works the other way. I've pulled my fair share of Nozari or Alex from Dragonqueen to win games I had no business winning.
Fun in Hearthstone usually means one player is having fun and the other is salty. Games like Chess etc are very different as they enjoyment comes from playing the game.
Unfortunately anyone that shares a similar right mentality like you has been lynched away by the blizzard sheep force, only few of us that can see how bad the game has turned are around and we keep being attacked for trying to bring reason to the masses.
I do enjoy the game - I just dont care for what its become. Its crazy. I feel like my wins arent earned and and my losses arent my fault. Like everytime. Thats not how it should be. We've gone WAY too far into the random system. Theres no class identities hardly anymore. I only do dailies now and havent spent any money on the game either where before I didnt mind contributing to it. Its just not good. IMO.
I do enjoy the game - I just dont care for what its become. Its crazy. I feel like my wins arent earned and and my losses arent my fault. Like everytime. Thats not how it should be. We've gone WAY too far into the random system. Theres no class identities hardly anymore. I only do dailies now and havent spent any money on the game either where before I didnt mind contributing to it. Its just not good. IMO.
I empathize and agree with this, and it's actually something I've talked about with several of my friends that consistently get legend. Skill still exists, but it's so much harder to make use of nowadays. I feel for the last year or so, ever since the introduction of lackeys and zephyrus, this game has gone in the direction of being an RNG clown fiesta where it's virtually impossible to play around your opponent's hand bc you can't possibly know what they might have. Zephyrus is hands down the dumbest card ever printed in the history of HS imo and it's absolutely ludicrous that it exists in standard, let alone the game as a whole. Lackeys are admittedly less broken but for me have no place whatsoever in standard: they are the epitome of what wild is as a format, not standard. With all of that said, you should know that you're not alone with regard to your frustration with the decidedly ridiculous direction this game has headed as of late. I know of several consistently high ranked players, myself included, that feel exactly the same way
I agree with alot of the posts in this forum. This game at its core is like old school War, where a 2 beats a 3, 3 beats a 4 etc.....you play a card I play a card till one of us wins.
So.........Hearthstone had added Golden cards, Legendaries, Animations, Sounds, and the best one of all, Top Decks/High Rolls.
All of these bells and whistles are what keeps us playing as much as we do. The game is as close to 50%winrate for each player because of its randomness. Dopamine hits are whats up!!! Every time you top deck the perfect answer, or open a new Legendary, or even as simple as feeling like your winning.
Pros, and people who are good at the game, do "play around" cards. This means playing to your outs, like a Poker player does.
Even with all the randomness, knowing your outs, or your % to draw the right card, can mean the difference between getting to Legend this season, or not.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THESE BREAK POINTS TO DO "'WELL"'.
competitive mode and mood in this game is just a delusion sometimes illusion other hallucination,it depends on the hours you spend clicking to prove your self that its not a delusion.
Try chess.
Ps. I like the game as it is, its a random fiesta, always been, and a nice way to relax but you just need to not buy the crap about skills and deep thinking about playing around......playing around what exaclty? play some chess or Go and then reconsider the '''play around'' meaning
This is all cool, but some people actually want to reach Legend once in this game.
Pendling around between rank 2 and 5 for half a month straight because you can't break even due to the fixed matchmaking in ranked is not fun, and will never be funny.
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
Blizzard has to monitor the amount of times that one gets outcountered in matchmaker already as well as improve ranked Rewards.
What?.......
Maybe you would reach Legend if you took off the tin foil hat. If you have all this time to work on such conspiracy theories, you probably could use it to improve as well. I mean, thousands reach Legend every month, why Blizzard only fixes your matchmaking over 5 years....
Regarding OP, I don't agree there's this much amount of casino around or RNG discovery. Some of the most consistent decks out there barely use it, like Dragon Hunter, Highlander Hunter, Quest Hunter, Token Druid, Quest Druid, Galakrond Warlock, Galakrond Warrior, Ress Priest... except for 1-2 cards for a Discover in some of these or cheat stuff.
On mana cheating, only Embiggen Druid cheats out stuff cheaply, and Galakrond Rogue the one that consistently does it. The Galakrond decks have to work to get their bonuses rolling, so you almost never see it on curve, more realistically at turns 10+. If you're aggro, you should have ended the game already or be very near it, at worst. If you're playing something slower, you should have answers and your own bombs as well.
The only deck that really stands out in RNG and mana cheating is Galakrond Rogue, due to the possibility of drawing 7 0 mana cards and lackey generation value. Highlander Mage has a more chaotic and unreliable RNG, and only Highlander Warrior can match it with Dr.Boom. Rogue is popular, Mage is very easily countered (that's why it's Tier 3 on ladder) and Control Warrior barely has players.
This is not a casino meta, it's a board swing meta. In most matches it isn't discovery or mana cheating that swings boards, but the sheer power of some cards (Rotnest Drake, Mass Ress, Galakrond weapon with summons, etc).
Just to show a list:
Dragon Hunter: Mana cheating: 4 cards: 2x Phase Stalker(and they only play 2 secrets, so you have a good guess what they could be) and Frenzied Felwing. Discover RNG: 2 cards: 2x [card]Primordial Explorer/card]. 6 out of 30, if you consider Phase Stalker mana cheating.
Face Hunter: 2 Mana cheats in 2x Phase Stalker. 0 Discover mechanics. 2 out of 30.
Quest Hunter: No mana cheating, no discover. 0 out of 30. Unless you consider the sidequest mana cheating...
Galakrond Warrior: Current versions don't run Lance or Quartermaster, so it's 0 mana cheat (you still have to pay for buffed minions) and 0 discover/RNG effects. 0 out of 30.
QuestDruid: Most current lists cut Worthy Expedition, so 0 Discover effects. Mana cheating is pretty tame with only 2x Anubisath Defender 2 out of 30.
Token Druid: Curiously has mana cheating mechanics, but hardly super powerful ones: 6 cards, 2x Mulchmuncher which require multiple boards to actually die, which you actually don't want to see happening, 2x Aeroponics, which requires some board to stay alive and 2x Anubisath Defender, which considering it's an aggressive deck, actually can have a hefty requirement to activate it. 2x Discover in 2 Dendrologist. 8 out of 30.
Some are repeated combining both RNG and mana cheat, so it's 12 out of 30.
Galakrond Control Warlock: 2x Discover in Zephrys the Great and also 1 mana cheat Dragonqueen Alexstrasza, and since the deck runs multiple dupes, you never activate them soon, much less on curve. Galakrond can highroll or lowroll demons that combined are not even worth the 7 mana. And you can know 4 demons are coming as you know it's their plan. So 2 out of 30.
Ress Priest: 0 Discover, 0 mana cheat (everything is always paid in full). You know the exact 30 cards they have. You can pollute their ress pool. At best. Zerek's Cloning Gallery can be considered mana cheating.
Mech Paladin: 0 discover RNG, if you consider Galvanizer mana cheating, then 2x mana cheat. 2 out of 30.
Galakrond Rogue: 13x discover RNG: All four x2 Invoke cards generate lackeys. Plus Pharaoh Cat, EVIL Miscreant and Gala's hero power. 2x mana cheat in Heistbaron Togwaggle and Galakrond. 14 out of 30.
So except for the outliers Galakrond Rogue and Highlander Mage, pretty much every other matchup is pretty much what you're asking: playing around the other 25-28 cards in their deck. And most of these matchups are more popular than Gala Rogue (which bad players can't take advantage of its mana cheating/discoveries anyway) and much more popular than the super expensive and not even that great HL Mage.
Again, the meta is not about RNG discover or mana cheating, it's about powerful board swings. And a lot of these powerful swings has nothing to do with Discover RNG or mana cheating. A lot of them you know are coming, and probably even when.
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
This dude just suggested hiring someone to boost for the monthly cardback and I'm kekking.
This and the guy with the pony avatar are the people who agree with OP that Hearthstone has just now suddenly become full of RNG. I really wonder sometimes...
I agree with alot of the posts in this forum. This game at its core is like old school War, where a 2 beats a 3, 3 beats a 4 etc.....you play a card I play a card till one of us wins.
So.........Hearthstone had added Golden cards, Legendaries, Animations, Sounds, and the best one of all, Top Decks/High Rolls.
All of these bells and whistles are what keeps us playing as much as we do. The game is as close to 50%winrate for each player because of its randomness. Dopamine hits are whats up!!! Every time you top deck the perfect answer, or open a new Legendary, or even as simple as feeling like your winning.
Pros, and people who are good at the game, do "play around" cards. This means playing to your outs, like a Poker player does.
Even with all the randomness, knowing your outs, or your % to draw the right card, can mean the difference between getting to Legend this season, or not.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THESE BREAK POINTS TO DO "'WELL"'.
I don't disagree that playing to your outs certainly contributes to achieving high rank. I will say, however, that it is significantly more difficult to do so now due to cards like zephyrus that literally provide you with the perfect out every time as long as it's in your hand, and random generation of lackeys that are completely impossible to predict and consequently significantly more difficult to play around. This is what I was alluding to in my last post when i said that skill, while still important, is "so much harder to make use of nowadays". With quite a few decks in the current meta you're not just playing against the cards your opponent selected, but another deck entirely that consists of random effects. For me, and ostensibly for other people on this thread, this and the general RNG-heavy nature of HS detracts from our capacity to have as much fun playing the game as we did before it came to be in this state
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
This dude just suggested hiring someone to boost for the monthly cardback and I'm kekking.
This and the guy with the pony avatar are the people who agree with OP that Hearthstone has just now suddenly become full of RNG. I really wonder sometimes...
No, he is looking to reach legend not the monthly cardback.
Please. OP is 100% right and these clowns defending this RNG Casino BS are either your typical blind forum fanboys, complete retards, or Blizard employees. One idiot in here even tried to defend this by comparing OP's idea of a having a bit less RNG to Chess. What a moron. No one wants curve stone or no RNG...but the point is its currently beyond reasonable standards.
I've played this game since Beta and anyone with more than two brain cells can discern that the RNG swings have never been close to this bad where the game is typically decided by round 3....and it fiercely snowballs from there. Disagree? Try playing classic test matches vs the innkeeper. The back and forth swings are nowhere near what happens in standard...and this is why this game is no fun.
The game has become infested by auto win decks like Murlocs where you are encouraged not to build anything original...or class expansion meta decks that play out 100% the exact same match after match. If it wasn't so pre planned then the Meta would not be so stale weeks after expansion launch. Then there's the netdecking streaming assholes who make a living looking for only the most degenerative things in the game which actively destroys any original concepts well before players can test or play around to discover these things.
This game is far from what it was years ago. A bit of RNG is ok...where it stands now in terms of card generation, mana cheating, and RNG manipulation is simply beyond retarded.
Don't even get me started on how they have completely ruined several class identities...
Yeah... All 3 in agreement have all suggested some sort of "collective conspiracy"... It's a disease that's really making the world ridiculous.
If this were a political forum, and they were:
Democrats, they would be screaming that everyone who disagrees with them is racist, homophobic, or holding some sort of other deep prejiduce.
Republicans, they would be screaming "drain the swamp!", "fake news!", or some other such nonsense.
It seems to be a normal conclusion these days that anyone who remotely disagrees with your total manifesto is deeply disturbed, "retarded", or a member of some shadowy conspiracy group hellbent on making their ideology seem imperfect.
Because, if a rational person were able to just disagree, then their idea is just an opinion, and not the absolute truth...
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
This dude just suggested hiring someone to boost for the monthly cardback and I'm kekking.
This and the guy with the pony avatar are the people who agree with OP that Hearthstone has just now suddenly become full of RNG. I really wonder sometimes...
what the hell are you up to ? I'am not talking about the monthly cardback, but the one for reaching legendary rank.
But you did read that right, you were just trying to disrespect my comment.
At least I have the balls to admit that my best rank was Rank 1, and I got trolled by Blizzard RNG as always, just two stars before hitting that desired Legendary rank, then I fell all the way back to 4 or 5, and then I never make it back to 1, with 100 games and more in between there, its just insane how consistently this shit happens to me. Nothing to do with "Conspiracy theory" either, this is just Variance, but having a slight above 50% winrate in every meta literally forces you to play over 1000 games and sacrificing your Soul.
Sorry I have more important business to go over about in Life than accompanying you nerds in this pointless and useless endeavor, if there was at least real money to be rewarded, things were a bit different....
If OP could stop using his alt accounts to praise himself and call his detractors clowns that'd be great
I won't call you a clown, but I still think OP isn't entirely wrong. The degree to which RNG can impact the game at this stage is unprecedented. I don't think anyone is saying that HS just became a game where luck is a significant factor, nor do I see anyone suggesting that there is a "collective conspiracy" like Tyrantum said. It's fascinating to me how violently opposed some people are to OP's particular line of reasoning, but I suppose he did go a little far when he said that HS is now a "100% randomized casino".
With that said, Lanko was the only person that provided a rational counterargument to the original post; everyone else that doesn't like it is either misrepresenting those who agree with it or making ad hominem attacks. To Lanko, I appreciate the effort you went to to demonstrate that random effects and RNG do not dominate the meta, but you failed to take into account the rate at which decks are played as opposed to how many decks make little use of discover effects. I'm not sure what rank you're playing at, and I can't speak to lower ranks, but in my experience from rank 5 to legend practically half of my opponents are gala rogue for the last several months. A disproportionate portion of the meta is represented by hunter variants and rogue, which makes extremely heavy use of discover effects. It's also worth stating that every highlander deck that exists utilizes extremely powerful discover effects (read: zephyrus and alex), so while the cards in question that provide these effects may make up a relatively small part of said highlander decks, they have the capability to single handedly swing a game in one's favor. So making a purely quantitative argument on the basis of how many decks do not use or make little use of discover effects is a bit narrow-minded: there are other factors that need to be considered (i.e. which decks are being played the most, what is the power level of the discover cards that these decks employ).
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I remember back when you sort of had to think about plays, only had to "play around" a few copies of broken/powerful cards. Or when matchups werent so polarizing where even your "worst" ones were still worth playing out. What happened? How or why did this game turn into a slot machine? Why do we have to face decks that literally end up with like 50 or 60 cards? Or, decks that end up with like 4-5 copies of super strong cards that you really shouldnt get to have more than TWO of. How is this good for the game? Theres a reason why powerful cards have deck limits and stuff. Right?
Yeah, yeah, no one liked pure curvestone either but did it have to go this far? Cant we balance it a little better between *some* randomness and "crazy" plays and good old class-only identities/cards? A lot of games you can instantly concede because your chances of winning are somewhere around 0%. And how can you plan out or deal with things that shouldnt even happen? I dont get the attraction to this 100% randomized casino we have now. No skill, no nothing. Just chuck them dice out there....ya know???? :(
Games =Fun
more randomness = more fun
competitive mode and mood in this game is just a delusion sometimes illusion other hallucination,it depends on the hours you spend clicking to prove your self that its not a delusion.
Try chess.
Ps. I like the game as it is, its a random fiesta, always been, and a nice way to relax but you just need to not buy the crap about skills and deep thinking about playing around......playing around what exaclty? play some chess or Go and then reconsider the '''play around'' meaning
So if it is 100% randomness then how can you have 0% match ups? Do you have a problem with too much rng or with overpowered deck(s)?
I couldn't agree more with OP. The use RNG and mana cheating is excessive in HS right now. Moderation? yes, by all means, Excess? Never good! I assume you still love the game and you don't want to quit. My advice: you just take a break from HS from time to time until the next expansion/rotation comes, see how things go. Personally, during the breaks I play my favorite games....Grim Dawn, Skyrim, Dying light, Fallout 4..
This is all cool, but some people actually want to reach Legend once in this game.
Pendling around between rank 2 and 5 for half a month straight because you can't break even due to the fixed matchmaking in ranked is not fun, and will never be funny.
You could argue that "why don't you then just hire a booster?" doing all the climbing for you and getting you that desired cardback, but that would not exactly fill myself with satisfaction after like 5 years of trying to get there and fail each and every month.
Blizzard has to monitor the amount of times that one gets outcountered in matchmaker already as well as improve ranked Rewards.
The power level of certain cards is very high right now. Highlander cards in particular give so much variance; the main culprit for me is Dragonqueen ... You can go from certain victory with opponent on 1 hp, to 0 mana Nozari followed up with 0 mana Zzeraku and 0% chance of winning in one turn. You can't really play around that, you just have to accept that if they have the card they have a certain chance to rng fiesta you. I think that feels bad, because it makes your earlier turns and gameplay decisions meaningless. However, the rng also works the other way. I've pulled my fair share of Nozari or Alex from Dragonqueen to win games I had no business winning.
Fun in Hearthstone usually means one player is having fun and the other is salty. Games like Chess etc are very different as they enjoyment comes from playing the game.
I think you missed the last 5 years where this was already the case.
Unfortunately anyone that shares a similar right mentality like you has been lynched away by the blizzard sheep force, only few of us that can see how bad the game has turned are around and we keep being attacked for trying to bring reason to the masses.
I do enjoy the game - I just dont care for what its become. Its crazy. I feel like my wins arent earned and and my losses arent my fault. Like everytime. Thats not how it should be. We've gone WAY too far into the random system. Theres no class identities hardly anymore. I only do dailies now and havent spent any money on the game either where before I didnt mind contributing to it. Its just not good. IMO.
I empathize and agree with this, and it's actually something I've talked about with several of my friends that consistently get legend. Skill still exists, but it's so much harder to make use of nowadays. I feel for the last year or so, ever since the introduction of lackeys and zephyrus, this game has gone in the direction of being an RNG clown fiesta where it's virtually impossible to play around your opponent's hand bc you can't possibly know what they might have. Zephyrus is hands down the dumbest card ever printed in the history of HS imo and it's absolutely ludicrous that it exists in standard, let alone the game as a whole. Lackeys are admittedly less broken but for me have no place whatsoever in standard: they are the epitome of what wild is as a format, not standard. With all of that said, you should know that you're not alone with regard to your frustration with the decidedly ridiculous direction this game has headed as of late. I know of several consistently high ranked players, myself included, that feel exactly the same way
I agree with alot of the posts in this forum. This game at its core is like old school War, where a 2 beats a 3, 3 beats a 4 etc.....you play a card I play a card till one of us wins.
So.........Hearthstone had added Golden cards, Legendaries, Animations, Sounds, and the best one of all, Top Decks/High Rolls.
All of these bells and whistles are what keeps us playing as much as we do. The game is as close to 50%winrate for each player because of its randomness. Dopamine hits are whats up!!! Every time you top deck the perfect answer, or open a new Legendary, or even as simple as feeling like your winning.
Pros, and people who are good at the game, do "play around" cards. This means playing to your outs, like a Poker player does.
Even with all the randomness, knowing your outs, or your % to draw the right card, can mean the difference between getting to Legend this season, or not.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THESE BREAK POINTS TO DO "'WELL"'.
What?.......
Maybe you would reach Legend if you took off the tin foil hat. If you have all this time to work on such conspiracy theories, you probably could use it to improve as well. I mean, thousands reach Legend every month, why Blizzard only fixes your matchmaking over 5 years....
Regarding OP, I don't agree there's this much amount of casino around or RNG discovery. Some of the most consistent decks out there barely use it, like Dragon Hunter, Highlander Hunter, Quest Hunter, Token Druid, Quest Druid, Galakrond Warlock, Galakrond Warrior, Ress Priest... except for 1-2 cards for a Discover in some of these or cheat stuff.
On mana cheating, only Embiggen Druid cheats out stuff cheaply, and Galakrond Rogue the one that consistently does it. The Galakrond decks have to work to get their bonuses rolling, so you almost never see it on curve, more realistically at turns 10+. If you're aggro, you should have ended the game already or be very near it, at worst. If you're playing something slower, you should have answers and your own bombs as well.
The only deck that really stands out in RNG and mana cheating is Galakrond Rogue, due to the possibility of drawing 7 0 mana cards and lackey generation value. Highlander Mage has a more chaotic and unreliable RNG, and only Highlander Warrior can match it with Dr.Boom. Rogue is popular, Mage is very easily countered (that's why it's Tier 3 on ladder) and Control Warrior barely has players.
This is not a casino meta, it's a board swing meta. In most matches it isn't discovery or mana cheating that swings boards, but the sheer power of some cards (Rotnest Drake, Mass Ress, Galakrond weapon with summons, etc).
Just to show a list:
Dragon Hunter: Mana cheating: 4 cards: 2x Phase Stalker(and they only play 2 secrets, so you have a good guess what they could be) and Frenzied Felwing. Discover RNG: 2 cards: 2x [card]Primordial Explorer/card]. 6 out of 30, if you consider Phase Stalker mana cheating.
Highlander Hunter: Mana cheating: 2 cards: 1x Phase Stalker and Dragonqueen Alexstrasza. Discover RNG: 3x cards Zephrys the Great, Primordial Explorer and Dragonqueen Alexstrasza. 4 out of 30.
Face Hunter: 2 Mana cheats in 2x Phase Stalker. 0 Discover mechanics. 2 out of 30.
Quest Hunter: No mana cheating, no discover. 0 out of 30. Unless you consider the sidequest mana cheating...
Galakrond Warrior: Current versions don't run Lance or Quartermaster, so it's 0 mana cheat (you still have to pay for buffed minions) and 0 discover/RNG effects. 0 out of 30.
Quest Druid: Most current lists cut Worthy Expedition, so 0 Discover effects. Mana cheating is pretty tame with only 2x Anubisath Defender 2 out of 30.
Embiggen Druid: 3x Mana cheating in 2x Strength in Numbers and Frizz Kindleroost. 2x discovery in 2 Emerald Explorer. 5 out of 30.
Token Druid: Curiously has mana cheating mechanics, but hardly super powerful ones: 6 cards, 2x Mulchmuncher which require multiple boards to actually die, which you actually don't want to see happening, 2x Aeroponics, which requires some board to stay alive and 2x Anubisath Defender, which considering it's an aggressive deck, actually can have a hefty requirement to activate it. 2x Discover in 2 Dendrologist. 8 out of 30.
Highlander Mage: 9 Discovers Arcane Breath, Firetree Witchdoctor, Arcane Keysmith, Zephrys the Great, Malygos, Aspect of Magic, Power of Creation, Tortollan Pilgrim, Dragonqueen Alexstrasza and Kalecgos.
1 super RNG effect in The Amazing Reno. 6 mana cheats Dragoncaster, Tortollan Pilgrim, Dragonqueen Alexstrasza, Kalecgos, Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Power of Creation.
Some are repeated combining both RNG and mana cheat, so it's 12 out of 30.
Galakrond Control Warlock: 2x Discover in Zephrys the Great and also 1 mana cheat Dragonqueen Alexstrasza, and since the deck runs multiple dupes, you never activate them soon, much less on curve. Galakrond can highroll or lowroll demons that combined are not even worth the 7 mana. And you can know 4 demons are coming as you know it's their plan. So 2 out of 30.
Ress Priest: 0 Discover, 0 mana cheat (everything is always paid in full). You know the exact 30 cards they have. You can pollute their ress pool. At best. Zerek's Cloning Gallery can be considered mana cheating.
Mech Paladin: 0 discover RNG, if you consider Galvanizer mana cheating, then 2x mana cheat. 2 out of 30.
Holy Wrath Paladin: 1 discover in Zephrys the Great. Prismatic Lens can and sometimes doesn't mana cheat. Sathrovarr combo is the only cheat. 2 out of 30.
Galakrond Rogue: 13x discover RNG: All four x2 Invoke cards generate lackeys. Plus Pharaoh Cat, EVIL Miscreant and Gala's hero power. 2x mana cheat in Heistbaron Togwaggle and Galakrond. 14 out of 30.
So except for the outliers Galakrond Rogue and Highlander Mage, pretty much every other matchup is pretty much what you're asking: playing around the other 25-28 cards in their deck. And most of these matchups are more popular than Gala Rogue (which bad players can't take advantage of its mana cheating/discoveries anyway) and much more popular than the super expensive and not even that great HL Mage.
Again, the meta is not about RNG discover or mana cheating, it's about powerful board swings. And a lot of these powerful swings has nothing to do with Discover RNG or mana cheating. A lot of them you know are coming, and probably even when.
This dude just suggested hiring someone to boost for the monthly cardback and I'm kekking.
This and the guy with the pony avatar are the people who agree with OP that Hearthstone has just now suddenly become full of RNG. I really wonder sometimes...
I don't disagree that playing to your outs certainly contributes to achieving high rank. I will say, however, that it is significantly more difficult to do so now due to cards like zephyrus that literally provide you with the perfect out every time as long as it's in your hand, and random generation of lackeys that are completely impossible to predict and consequently significantly more difficult to play around. This is what I was alluding to in my last post when i said that skill, while still important, is "so much harder to make use of nowadays". With quite a few decks in the current meta you're not just playing against the cards your opponent selected, but another deck entirely that consists of random effects. For me, and ostensibly for other people on this thread, this and the general RNG-heavy nature of HS detracts from our capacity to have as much fun playing the game as we did before it came to be in this state
No, he is looking to reach legend not the monthly cardback.
Please. OP is 100% right and these clowns defending this RNG Casino BS are either your typical blind forum fanboys, complete retards, or Blizard employees. One idiot in here even tried to defend this by comparing OP's idea of a having a bit less RNG to Chess. What a moron. No one wants curve stone or no RNG...but the point is its currently beyond reasonable standards.
I've played this game since Beta and anyone with more than two brain cells can discern that the RNG swings have never been close to this bad where the game is typically decided by round 3....and it fiercely snowballs from there. Disagree? Try playing classic test matches vs the innkeeper. The back and forth swings are nowhere near what happens in standard...and this is why this game is no fun.
The game has become infested by auto win decks like Murlocs where you are encouraged not to build anything original...or class expansion meta decks that play out 100% the exact same match after match. If it wasn't so pre planned then the Meta would not be so stale weeks after expansion launch. Then there's the netdecking streaming assholes who make a living looking for only the most degenerative things in the game which actively destroys any original concepts well before players can test or play around to discover these things.
This game is far from what it was years ago. A bit of RNG is ok...where it stands now in terms of card generation, mana cheating, and RNG manipulation is simply beyond retarded.
Don't even get me started on how they have completely ruined several class identities...
Yeah... All 3 in agreement have all suggested some sort of "collective conspiracy"... It's a disease that's really making the world ridiculous.
If this were a political forum, and they were:
Democrats, they would be screaming that everyone who disagrees with them is racist, homophobic, or holding some sort of other deep prejiduce.
Republicans, they would be screaming "drain the swamp!", "fake news!", or some other such nonsense.
It seems to be a normal conclusion these days that anyone who remotely disagrees with your total manifesto is deeply disturbed, "retarded", or a member of some shadowy conspiracy group hellbent on making their ideology seem imperfect.
Because, if a rational person were able to just disagree, then their idea is just an opinion, and not the absolute truth...
If OP could stop using his alt accounts to praise himself and call his detractors clowns that'd be great
what the hell are you up to ? I'am not talking about the monthly cardback, but the one for reaching legendary rank.
But you did read that right, you were just trying to disrespect my comment.
At least I have the balls to admit that my best rank was Rank 1, and I got trolled by Blizzard RNG as always, just two stars before hitting that desired Legendary rank, then I fell all the way back to 4 or 5, and then I never make it back to 1, with 100 games and more in between there, its just insane how consistently this shit happens to me. Nothing to do with "Conspiracy theory" either, this is just Variance, but having a slight above 50% winrate in every meta literally forces you to play over 1000 games and sacrificing your Soul.
Sorry I have more important business to go over about in Life than accompanying you nerds in this pointless and useless endeavor, if there was at least real money to be rewarded, things were a bit different....
I won't call you a clown, but I still think OP isn't entirely wrong. The degree to which RNG can impact the game at this stage is unprecedented. I don't think anyone is saying that HS just became a game where luck is a significant factor, nor do I see anyone suggesting that there is a "collective conspiracy" like Tyrantum said. It's fascinating to me how violently opposed some people are to OP's particular line of reasoning, but I suppose he did go a little far when he said that HS is now a "100% randomized casino".
With that said, Lanko was the only person that provided a rational counterargument to the original post; everyone else that doesn't like it is either misrepresenting those who agree with it or making ad hominem attacks. To Lanko, I appreciate the effort you went to to demonstrate that random effects and RNG do not dominate the meta, but you failed to take into account the rate at which decks are played as opposed to how many decks make little use of discover effects. I'm not sure what rank you're playing at, and I can't speak to lower ranks, but in my experience from rank 5 to legend practically half of my opponents are gala rogue for the last several months. A disproportionate portion of the meta is represented by hunter variants and rogue, which makes extremely heavy use of discover effects. It's also worth stating that every highlander deck that exists utilizes extremely powerful discover effects (read: zephyrus and alex), so while the cards in question that provide these effects may make up a relatively small part of said highlander decks, they have the capability to single handedly swing a game in one's favor. So making a purely quantitative argument on the basis of how many decks do not use or make little use of discover effects is a bit narrow-minded: there are other factors that need to be considered (i.e. which decks are being played the most, what is the power level of the discover cards that these decks employ).