Fist of all I'll start by saying I'm not salty and I somewhat enjoy this meta, it doesn't feel terrible to play and you can actually enjoy your games (most of the times) but I want to discuss some points about why I think this could be considered as generally unhealthy. THIS IS A LONG POST SO DON'T WHINE ABOUT IT, IF YOU LIKE READING THEN GO AHEAD IF NOT PLEASE DON'T COMMENT ANYTHING STUPID TRYING TO BE FUNNT OR A TROLL.
With the year of the Mammoth set we learned that mana cheating is a terrible mechanic that leads to unh ealthy decks that rely on this absurd turns in where they either burst incredibly fast by putting stuff on board way faster than they should be able to or just playing a lot more than 10 mana if we looked at the stats they put on the table or the cost of said cards. Examples of this are Barnes and the entire resurrect mechanic, Skull of the Man'ari and Bloodreaver Gul'dan, Kathreena Winterwisp and her army of giant beasts or Hadronox and its wall of taunts, to name some some of the biggest offenders. What do this cards and their entire archetypes have in common? Simple, mana cheating, you pay a certain price (lower) to either cheat something huge out of your deck or you can set up insane board states that usually would cost at least 20 mana for at most 10 mana (sometimes even lower which is ridiculous)
We thought Blizzard learn their lesson during the year of the raven as they didn't print too much mana cheating overall. The sets had their problem in form of infinite value from time to time but at least it looks like Blizzard kinda learnt about this and stopped making infinite value powerhouses. But it terms of mana cheating, with the year of the dragon and specially with the Descent of Dragons set, the mana cheating came back and it came back hard, to the point where pretty much almost every single meta deck has some sort of mana cheating mechanic that makes it viable and other decks that don't have these unholy swing turns just simply fall behind. Here's a list of the top meta decks, in no particular order and untiered, just naming the most relevant decks:
Embiggen Druid - Mana cheats
Galakrond and Highlander Rogue - Both Mana cheat
Quest Hunter
Highlander Hunter - Mana cheats
Face Hunter
Galakrond Warrior - Mana cheats
Galakrond Warlock - Mana cheats
Resurrect Priest - Mana cheats
I would say those are the decks you'll encounter the most on the ladder and as you can see almost all of them mana cheat but 2 (kinda), Quest and Face Hunter. Quest Hunter is a board centric swarm deck that gets rewarded by doing so with an amazing hero power, on this one the mana cheat is almost not present, we only see this on the side quest (not that big of a deal) and on Veranus as it has an effect that allows you to trade big stuff with your scrubs while developing a nice body. Face Hunter on the other hand is just a hyper aggro deck that pushes everything face everyturn unless there's a taunt on the way, pretty brainless and doesn't seem to have any (major) mana cheating mechanic. Other than that every other single meta deck has some sort of mana cheating aspect to it that puts in on top of every other deck that doesn't have this. This post was mainly inspired by the fact that I tried to play some sort of Book Elemental Dragon Mage after chapter 2 f Galakrond's awakening got realeased and with the new cards (including last's week ones too), Mage got 2 interesting elementals added in Animated Avalanche and Arcane Amplifier (Ironically both represent forms of mana cheat lol). As I said I made a Book build with the best dragons and elementals on standard and also wanted to test Jan'alai before she rotated. After a couple games I realized that a deck like this just simply can't compete against all the mana cheat the top decks have, this type of deck is simply too fair to do anything. Most games I was actually winning by having nice curves and then bop, one swing turn and I got destroyed.
Now I'll give samples of every one of the mentioned decks and how is it exactly they mana cheat and how is that unhealthy (I'll be using the builds I'm currently playing, there could be better/more optimized build but I'll talk from my experience here):
This one has multiple ways of cheating mana, the most obvious is Frizz, she makes all your dragons cost 2 mana less and as almost half of your deck is dragons it means that you're cheating around 20 mana with all your dragons. The less notorious but even bigger offenders are Embiggen and Strength in Numbers, the former boost your deck by 2/2 and the latter cheats out something usually huge by doing nothing more than playing your deck. If you have been playing for somewhere around 2 years you know how powerful Prince Keleseth was and Embiggen is a card that gives you extra 1/1 while being able to run 2 off and it doesn't restrict your deck building, yes it does make everything one mana more expensive but that is usually irrelevant as you're gonna be playing 1 big thing every turn anyways. With the side quest it just feel stupid to me, most sidequest usually make you do something specific or somewhat build the deck around it, but this one is just, play your big boys and get a big boy as a reward. The decks becomes even worse if you get Frizz as you can play both Embiggens and not care cause half of your deck has +4/4 with no backdraw at all. This deck mana cheats a lot.
Putting both on the same category as they do the exact same thing, the only difference is that pure Galakrond is more consistent and Highlander as an extra form of mana cheating. This is by far the biggest offender of the mana cheating fiesta we currently have. These decks can play a total of 7 cards for 0 mana due to Galakrond himself and Heistbaron Togwaggle which is just ridiculous. Tog was a card that saw some play in the past but now it's a core card in this builds as you can generate so many lackeys, you'll always have an activator for him. And also in 99% of the scenarios there's no reason to pick a treasure that's not the wand, only in very few niche scenarios you may want the crown and the other 2 treasures are pretty much obsolete.
And then come Galakrond, mana cheating embodied. This cards gives you an Arcanite Reaper which costs 5 mana, which means that if the total draws cost more that 3 mana then you already started to mana cheat and if you have played this deck you know that this card can easily give you 15 mana worth and obviously the simple swing of drawing 4 cards would cost mana on its own (Sprint) so at worse you're getting 12 mana worth of value without counting the 0 cost cards you'll get. On Highlander we have the extra spice of Dragonqueen Alexstraza, she rewards you by making your deck less consistent and gives you an 8/8 body and 2 free extra dragons which are usually decent, more mana cheat yay! You can argue that all this cards can flop and give you bad results but it's not like the outcome sucks every time, more often than not you'll swing the game and win cause of them. This class is the biggest offender as I said.
This is one of the more "honest" decks we currently have. As I said it almost doesn't mana cheat, you can only see Clear the Way and Veranus as forms of mana cheating and let's be honest, with all the ridiculous swing turns we have on the meta this is pretty acceptable. So if this deck barely mana cheats, how is it so good? Well it's a sort of perfect storm for Quest Hunter, a deck that was previously unplayable became good cause it exploit one of Rogue's weaknesses in being able to swarm the board multiple times, if you pair that with a finisher like post-quest Leeroy + Hounds then you have the perfect Rogue slayer. Also Veranus does play a big role, if it wasn't for him, a deck like Embiggen Druid would absolutely farm you, but he allows you to not fall behind while you finish your quest. Overall is probably the most fair deck we'll see in a while.
My second most hated deck but it's arguably the only one that doesn't mana cheat. You could argue the side quest is a bit of mana cheating but not really, it just happens to click incredibly well with your main and only game plan and it rewards you with more of the same stuff. I hate this deck cause it's just brainless and has 1 plan, push all face and hope you draw enough damage, that's it, but I said this was not a salt post and I intend to keep it that way. A hyper aggresive deck that tries to maximize damage to the face, no mana cheating here.
This deck took a hit with the most recent nerfs but it's still decent. To start with I'll just say that getting 9/6 with rush split into 3 bodies for just 4 mana is pretty "generous", the mana cheating starts in the mid-game with this Warrior deck. With Galakrond it's a different story, to begin with as stated before you get an Arcanite Reaper and draw 4 cards off this bad boy, which by Hearthstone standards it's 12 mana so you already cheated 5 mana to begin with, but then we see a different way of mana cheating, stats buffing, this one might not make your cards cost 0 like rogue does but it gives 4 of your minions +4/+4 making them way stronger than they should be for their mana cost, so this is as well another form to mana cheat, if I play a 1 mana 1/2 then it's okay but if I play a 1 mana 5/6 then that seems a bit unfair and sounds like mana cheating to me.
On this one the mana cheating is like on the middle of the pack, not too strong but impactful and consistent. Invoking gives you 2 1/1s every time and that is obviosly very good, specially when you have cards like Sacrificial Pact and Plague of Flames to push this even further. Then drawing 3 cards and getting a 5/4 on top of that also seems pretty cheaty if you ask me. Finally Galakrond himself also cheats, you get your 5 mana weapon as every other Gala and then 4 random demons, which means that if the combination of them gives you at least 3 worth of stats then you already started to mana cheat and as there are no 0 cost demons it means you always cheat at least 2 extra mana on the worst case scenario. Most builds also run Dragonqueen Alex but I won't talk about her anymore as she's been covered on the Highlander Rogue section.
I'm not even gonna try to hide the fact that this is by far the deck I hate the most on the meta. Priest was my favorite class when I started playing, it seemed like the unicorn class that had not so good cards but you could make decent decks that felt fun, my favorite deck of all time is actually Raza Priest, and I know that deck has been one of the most unhealthy and bullshit on HS history but, what can you do? I just loved it so much. Having said that I've always thought the resurrect mechanic is pure unbalanced bullshit, it's supposed to be balanced by the fact that most resurrect cards are random and you could revive anything but this is easily avoidable by just playing cards that you want to revive thus making your revive pool contain only good cards, this is not enough of a back draw to ever make resurrect even a mediocre mechanic. it's simply the embodiment of mana cheating.
I was so happy when the spellstone and Eternal Servitude rotated and then we get Psychopomp and Mass Resurrection with extra Katrina Muerte flavor on top. The resurrect mechanic is simply lazy and poorly balanced from its core and I'm not afraid to said that it's at least top 3 on the most hated mechanics from the community. Blizzard stopped supporting the Charge mechanic entirely as is felt "uninteractive" and "unfair" and it was "frustrating" to play against and I sincerely can't think about anything more frustrating to play against than the resurrect mechanic as a whole. This deck is just a cesspool of healing, removal and mana cheat.
This post was intended to spark discussion about how people see the current meta and how does it feel, do you feel it's fun or not? Even if it's fun do you agree that it's unhealthy and it comes down mostly to swing turns and to the point of whoever highrolls harder and/or faster wins the game?
I ended up giving some insight and showcasing most of the prominent meta decks right now so if you want to discuss about their composition and how they stand in the meta I guess it's alright as well, any sort of discussion is welcomed. Thank you for reading this long post and sorry for any mistakes.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
Yeah, I didn't say the meta was bad per se, it's probably the most fun one we've had in like a year or so but there are some game where you can be winning and then one turn and your opponent does something so back breaking you simply lose and sometimes there's nothing you can do to play around it even if you know it's gonna happen.
Your definition of mana cheating is very loose. From what I can tell, your definition of mana cheating is any card that puts out more value or stats than a typical card of the same mana cost.
How I understand mana cheating is that it's a mechanic that lets the player play a card earlier than that card was designed to be played. It causes problems because that card was designed for when the opponent has more mana for removal or a bigger board to contend with. Plus, high mana cards run the risk of being dead in hand for a long time. Mana cheating lets cards get around those factors. A 9 drop is much stronger against an opponent with 5 mana and a few early drops than an opponent with 10 mana and a bunch of 5 and 6 drops. So much stronger that it leaves the opponent feeling hopeless, and like they want to quit this god forsaken game.
A good example of mana cheating (imo) that people don't normally think of is the old InnervateVicious Fledgling combo. Flappy bird is a 3/3 for 3, which means it's supposed to be played on turn 3. By that point, the opponent has had time to develop minions and draw removal to kill it. That's fine. But when flappy bird comes down on 1 thanks to innervate, the opponent has drawn fewer cards, has a weaker board if any at all, and fewer mana to cast removals with. Flappy bird on 3 is easy to kill. Flappy bird on 1 is almost impossible. And then it hits windfury, or at least some protection from removal so you still can't kill it, and it wins the game from there. Nobody got to play a game. One player drew the right cards and the other player died.
That's why I don't consider Galakrond, Dragonqueen, etc., mana cheats. They were meant to be played when they are. They're just very overstatted for the cost. Blizzard wanted people to feel good when they play the card they built their deck around, so they make those cards extra powerful. That's what a payoff is. Now, is galakrond good design? No, he's bullshit in every scenario, but he's a different kind of problem.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
I like how you tag "netdecker" on face hunter like EVERY single deck on ladder isn't a net deck. Net decking is fine, but don't act like some stupid part of face hunter is the fact that it was net decked lol.
Your definition of mana cheating is very loose. From what I can tell, your definition of mana cheating is any card that puts out more value or stats than a typical card of the same mana cost.
How I understand mana cheating is that it's a mechanic that lets the player play a card earlier than that card was designed to be played. It causes problems because that card was designed for when the opponent has more mana for removal or a bigger board to contend with. Plus, high mana cards run the risk of being dead in hand for a long time. Mana cheating lets cards get around those factors. A 9 drop is much stronger against an opponent with 5 mana and a few early drops than an opponent with 10 mana and a bunch of 5 and 6 drops. So much stronger that it leaves the opponent feeling hopeless, and like they want to quit this god forsaken tgame.
A good example of mana cheating (imo) that people don't normally think of is the old InnervateVicious Fledgling combo. Flappy bird is a 3/3 for 3, which means it's supposed to be played on turn 3. By that point, the opponent has had time to develop minions and draw removal to kill it. That's fine. But when flappy bird comes down on 1 thanks to innervate, the opponent has drawn fewer cards, has a weaker board if any at all, and fewer mana to cast removals with. Flappy bird on 3 is easy to kill. Flappy bird on 1 is almost impossible. And then it hits windfury, or at least some protection from removal so you still can't kill it, and it wins the game from there. Nobody got to play a game. One player drew the right cards and the other player died.
That's why I don't consider Galakrond, Dragonqueen, etc., mana cheats. They were meant to be played when they are. They're just very overstatted for the cost. Blizzard wanted people to feel good when they play the card they built their deck around, so they make those cards extra powerful. That's what a payoff is. Now, is galakrond good design? No, he's bullshit in every scenario, but he's a different kind of problem.
There are different ways to cheat mana. So what can be considered mana cheating? As its name says, you can consider mana cheating anything that breaks the laws of the mana crystals you have in any way.
Having said that, the thing you said is the most straight forward form of mana cheating, which is putting something on board that isn't supposed to be there via any method. Examples of this are Possed Lackey pulling Voidlord from your deck or Barnes + any resurrect shenanigans. So, let's consider something, would you consider that a card like Dragon's Pack isn't mana cheating by this definition? There's no way currently to play this card before turn 5 but even if you play it on turn 5 then that's a board state that shouldn't be possible by that turn according to Hearthstone standards. That's my point, we've come to the point where Blizzard is printing cards that straight up mana cheat without them necessarily having to be played earlier, if I told you there is a 2 mana 6/6 that can only be played from hand without any "cheating" mechanic and doesn't have any backdraws, just a vanilla 6/6, would you say that card isn't cheating a lot of mana? even if you can pull it out or summon it some weird way it doesn't mean it's ok, it would be a card that isn't supposed to be a thing on that turn according to the historic HS record.
Another definition of mana cheating could be a card that gives you a lot more mana pay off according to the standards there are. As an example of this see Ultimate Infestation this is probably the first card we saw that had too much value for its cost. I think the calc back in the day was that this card gave you like 17.5 worth of mana and you only payed 10 so that also is mana cheating, if you pay 10 mana and get your 10 in return worth of value and then get extra 7 wouldn't you say the Druid cheated with its mana? Nowdays, most Galakronds are a perfect example of this, on their "ultimate" form they all have a 5/2 weapon, which we all know is already a card called Arcanite Reaper and costs 5 mana and then they all give you extra stuff. So you already got 5 mana off that weapon and then drawing 4 free cards, or 4 demons or drawing 4 cards and buffing them by 8 stats each for a total of 32 stats (+4/+4) is indeed a form of mana cheat, you are paying 7 mana for them and then gettting a ton more value and/or tempo as a payoff and the only thing you have to do is playing slightly understated cards that fill your curve and have side effects on top of it, most Galakronds invokers mana cheat slightly and Galakronds throws that mana cheating method off the roof by a mile.
The last way of mana cheating is similar to the first one, you're getting too many stats, the only difference is that you could find it more "fair" as the cards come down in the turn they're supposed to but that doesn't mean thats a good game design. An example of this is when Kathreena Winterwisp pulled a 7+ cost beast that had either rush, taunt or charge from your deck into the board, you didn't only get her 6/6 body but also a giant beast and she floated into another giant beast. Isn't that mana cheating? You couldn't play her before turn 8 on Deathrattle hunter but she gave you way too many stats for her 8 mana cost even if you played her from hand on turn 8. Dragonqueen is an almost identical example. There's usually no way to cheat her out while activating her battlecry but she gives you a ton of stats for just 9 mana, that isn't supposed to happen and there aren't a lot of decks that can deal with this swing turns even on turn 9, you could argue the other player had 9 turns to draw answers to this card but that's not realistic, on a vaccum that's the truth but on reality many variables can happen in 9 turns to the point where even decks that run removal could simply not have one in hand cause they had to use it on previous turn to not lose the game. Cards like this are indeed mana cheating as they bend the laws of what mana is supposed to do.
And of course comparing cards to some other cards that have the same effect for different mana cost is a way to make mana cheating evident lol if not what's the purpose of this old cards? That's the reason we have the term "vanilla minion" on HS, there's a reason a vanilla minion like Yeti doesn't see play anymore, you compare it to other 4 mana minions and the other minions do better stuff or have more stats or are more efficient to play on this same mana slot, this same principle can be applied to mana cheating.
I think you are confusing "Mana cheating" with "Overpowered (OP)". Mana cheating is playing or summoning a minion earlier than expected. Using your example, If you play a vanilla 2-mana 6/6 on turn 2 (or turn 1 with coin), you are not mana cheating, you are just playing an overpowered card that the game designers created to be played on turn 1-2.
Said that, I think Galakrond and lackeys are overpowered and unhealthy. The amount of value you can get from lackeys (especially Rogue's Galakrond) is insane. Also, why lackeys and Galakrond are E.V.I.L exclusive? Why didn't they allow these mechanics to be played for all classes (with another name and lore)? That causes an unbalanced metagame. But somehow it is still funny.
Sorry that I didn’t read the whole post, but I doubt you wouldn’t be able to forgive me for that. I think I got the jist of it. So my question is, what’s the alternative?
They continue to release new cards and there are only so many ways you can express what a 4 mana minion looks like. With HS’s limited keywords and lack of activated abilities the creative space is further challenged. One way to implement variety to to fudge with and manipulate the rules or basic structure of the game.
And isn’t the fact that you have so many examples of mana cheating actually a good thing? Because if only one class or deck had it available to them, then clearly the rest wouldn’t be able to compete.
Sorry that I didn’t read the whole post, but I doubt you wouldn’t be able to forgive me for that. I think I got the jist of it. So my question is, what’s the alternative?
They continue to release new cards and there are only so many ways you can express what a 4 mana minion looks like. With HS’s limited keywords and lack of activated abilities the creative space is further challenged. One way to implement variety to to fudge with and manipulate the rules or basic structure of the game.
And isn’t the fact that you have so many examples of mana cheating actually a good thing? Because if only one class or deck had it available to them, then clearly the rest wouldn’t be able to compete.
Power creeping and printing insane cards is a different thing. Power creeping is inevitable, not just in HS but in any card game. I'm not saying that we should expect a card like Yeti to be forever viable, that's unrealistic and boring but that doesn't mean it's okay for blizzard to print bonkers card, in every set there are ok and good examples of power crept but justifing the insane cards they have been printing with "well you can't expect for them to print cards with the same power level" is just lazy, that same lazyness (and greed) is what pushed blizz to print this insane cards on the first place.
On your second line of thought with the "well good shit everyone has broken shit" then that's also not ok. That's the problem, first of all not all classes are equally powerful, not even close, Mage is behind 7 classes and it's not close and Paladin is almost dead rn. Other than that it isn't healthy that all classes have ridiculous cards, you could think "if everyone is broken then no one is broken" but that isn't a realistic point of view, then that just means the games is less about skill and more about who highrolls harder and/or faster. as I said there are time you can't play around a certain turn even if you know is going to happen, even if it's absolutely obvious, there isn't a single line of play or card in your deck that can save you, that isn't healthy game design.
The thing about that definition is that it's muddy to the point of not being useful. You're essentially saying "this card offers more than you would expect for its mana cost." But the thing is, all cards that see play are good for the cost. That's why they see play. If so, where do you define that line? Is Dwarven Sharpshooter mana cheating? It's a 1/3 with a significant upside, and Crystallizer has seen play in decks where it's text doesn't matter. Doesn't Sharpshooter violate the standard set by Crystallizer? Isn't that mana cheating?
The issue with your definition is that either a) "this card mana cheats" is just another way of saying "this card is good," or b) there's some made up line or numerical value where the card becomes mana cheating. Even if you draw that line somewhere, it just changes "this card is good" to mean "its very good," or "overpowered." That's a useless term right there. A buzzword people use to sound smart. The way I defined mana cheating actually means something. It breaks the game by allowing expensive things to come down before they normally could. It causes problems for a specific reason, that at that point there's little or no hope of beating it because it was designed to come down later.
You can define it however you like, words have the meanings we give them, but the way you're defining it kind of misses the point. It's just another way to say "this card is good," and you tack on some numbers and comparisons so you can prove it.
Woah, huge wall of text out there. For those who don’t want to read it through, the main point is author doesn’t like almost every decent deck in this meta and complains about them being strong.
i don’t see what most of those decks have to do with mana cheating but he says it himself
It's more high-roll-y than I'd like, but in general, I think it's fine.
We see shifts in "the best deck" almost weekly since the first round of Shaman nerfs. Some of this is absolutely due to nerfs and new releases. But it's also because there is so much powerful stuff out there that counters are almost always found to the "best deck" of the week.
There are a lot of decks that are very competitive. And there's a spot for nearly everything...except Paladin really.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
bro,control shaman and warrior get free win vs rez priest, you must be playing it wrong. my beef is with control decks just losing to rogue 's broken turns with all the 0 mana cards. but seriously, u shouldnt never lose to quest or rez priest with control.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
bro,control shaman and warrior get free win vs rez priest, you must be playing it wrong. my beef is with control decks just losing to rogue 's broken turns with all the 0 mana cards. but seriously, u shouldnt never lose to quest or rez priest with control.
Shhh... the longer it takes for everyone to figure out a well placed Hex or Plague of Murlocs played right after Zerek’s cloning gallery the more free wins we can get keep cranking out with rez priest. Seriously, it is one of the easiest decks to tech against.
Please explain the difference between "Fine" and "Just another meta," because right now they combine to 44.1% of the vote, which is a pretty big plurality.
There's 2 problems with the current meta: Mana Cheat and Card Generation. Both are completely out of control right now. All the decks you listed cover the first, but I'd also like to point out that Mountain Giant and Sea Giant have caused this problem for the last year.
Then you get the card generation problem which popped in the last year mostly due to lackeys. A lot of card were added that generate lackies, then those lackies generate more shit. It's hard to play a limited deck right now, cause you can play powerful stuff every turn, but if your opponent is running decks like All rogues, all shamans, gala priest (there is a viable one now), spell mage, gala zoolock, and a few others which have so much card generation that they can run you out of cards by playing more than you and still be having issues keeping their hand under 10.
That problem won't be fixed until the April 2021 rotation. The meta is a mess now, but I'd take this over the Deathknight meta.
I think it'd be beneficial for them to Hof ALL giants (Sea and mountain) and Leeroy in April. Also look into balancing some of the current card. Embiggen needs to be nerfed to only being +1/1. Frizz needs a nerf it's overstatted and undercost for what it does. The lack of decent mid and early game defense options is why face hunter is out of control. All the anti-tech we got was garbage. Hecklebot summons dangerous stuff more often than not. Albatross is too slow to play in an aggro meta. The cast a spell from enemies hand 6 minion never did much useful. Hakkar had some uses and still does, but the problem is that it's slow and it's rotating in april .
Priest might become useless in april since Mass Hysteria and cloning gallery are rotating out.
Fist of all I'll start by saying I'm not salty and I somewhat enjoy this meta, it doesn't feel terrible to play and you can actually enjoy your games (most of the times) but I want to discuss some points about why I think this could be considered as generally unhealthy. THIS IS A LONG POST SO DON'T WHINE ABOUT IT, IF YOU LIKE READING THEN GO AHEAD IF NOT PLEASE DON'T COMMENT ANYTHING STUPID TRYING TO BE FUNNT OR A TROLL.
With the year of the Mammoth set we learned that mana cheating is a terrible mechanic that leads to unh ealthy decks that rely on this absurd turns in where they either burst incredibly fast by putting stuff on board way faster than they should be able to or just playing a lot more than 10 mana if we looked at the stats they put on the table or the cost of said cards. Examples of this are Barnes and the entire resurrect mechanic, Skull of the Man'ari and Bloodreaver Gul'dan, Kathreena Winterwisp and her army of giant beasts or Hadronox and its wall of taunts, to name some some of the biggest offenders. What do this cards and their entire archetypes have in common? Simple, mana cheating, you pay a certain price (lower) to either cheat something huge out of your deck or you can set up insane board states that usually would cost at least 20 mana for at most 10 mana (sometimes even lower which is ridiculous)
We thought Blizzard learn their lesson during the year of the raven as they didn't print too much mana cheating overall. The sets had their problem in form of infinite value from time to time but at least it looks like Blizzard kinda learnt about this and stopped making infinite value powerhouses. But it terms of mana cheating, with the year of the dragon and specially with the Descent of Dragons set, the mana cheating came back and it came back hard, to the point where pretty much almost every single meta deck has some sort of mana cheating mechanic that makes it viable and other decks that don't have these unholy swing turns just simply fall behind. Here's a list of the top meta decks, in no particular order and untiered, just naming the most relevant decks:
I would say those are the decks you'll encounter the most on the ladder and as you can see almost all of them mana cheat but 2 (kinda), Quest and Face Hunter. Quest Hunter is a board centric swarm deck that gets rewarded by doing so with an amazing hero power, on this one the mana cheat is almost not present, we only see this on the side quest (not that big of a deal) and on Veranus as it has an effect that allows you to trade big stuff with your scrubs while developing a nice body. Face Hunter on the other hand is just a hyper aggro deck that pushes everything face everyturn unless there's a taunt on the way, pretty brainless and doesn't seem to have any (major) mana cheating mechanic. Other than that every other single meta deck has some sort of mana cheating aspect to it that puts in on top of every other deck that doesn't have this. This post was mainly inspired by the fact that I tried to play some sort of Book Elemental Dragon Mage after chapter 2 f Galakrond's awakening got realeased and with the new cards (including last's week ones too), Mage got 2 interesting elementals added in Animated Avalanche and Arcane Amplifier (Ironically both represent forms of mana cheat lol). As I said I made a Book build with the best dragons and elementals on standard and also wanted to test Jan'alai before she rotated. After a couple games I realized that a deck like this just simply can't compete against all the mana cheat the top decks have, this type of deck is simply too fair to do anything. Most games I was actually winning by having nice curves and then bop, one swing turn and I got destroyed.
Now I'll give samples of every one of the mentioned decks and how is it exactly they mana cheat and how is that unhealthy (I'll be using the builds I'm currently playing, there could be better/more optimized build but I'll talk from my experience here):
This one has multiple ways of cheating mana, the most obvious is Frizz, she makes all your dragons cost 2 mana less and as almost half of your deck is dragons it means that you're cheating around 20 mana with all your dragons. The less notorious but even bigger offenders are Embiggen and Strength in Numbers, the former boost your deck by 2/2 and the latter cheats out something usually huge by doing nothing more than playing your deck. If you have been playing for somewhere around 2 years you know how powerful Prince Keleseth was and Embiggen is a card that gives you extra 1/1 while being able to run 2 off and it doesn't restrict your deck building, yes it does make everything one mana more expensive but that is usually irrelevant as you're gonna be playing 1 big thing every turn anyways. With the side quest it just feel stupid to me, most sidequest usually make you do something specific or somewhat build the deck around it, but this one is just, play your big boys and get a big boy as a reward. The decks becomes even worse if you get Frizz as you can play both Embiggens and not care cause half of your deck has +4/4 with no backdraw at all. This deck mana cheats a lot.
Putting both on the same category as they do the exact same thing, the only difference is that pure Galakrond is more consistent and Highlander as an extra form of mana cheating. This is by far the biggest offender of the mana cheating fiesta we currently have. These decks can play a total of 7 cards for 0 mana due to Galakrond himself and Heistbaron Togwaggle which is just ridiculous. Tog was a card that saw some play in the past but now it's a core card in this builds as you can generate so many lackeys, you'll always have an activator for him. And also in 99% of the scenarios there's no reason to pick a treasure that's not the wand, only in very few niche scenarios you may want the crown and the other 2 treasures are pretty much obsolete.
And then come Galakrond, mana cheating embodied. This cards gives you an Arcanite Reaper which costs 5 mana, which means that if the total draws cost more that 3 mana then you already started to mana cheat and if you have played this deck you know that this card can easily give you 15 mana worth and obviously the simple swing of drawing 4 cards would cost mana on its own (Sprint) so at worse you're getting 12 mana worth of value without counting the 0 cost cards you'll get. On Highlander we have the extra spice of Dragonqueen Alexstraza, she rewards you by making your deck less consistent and gives you an 8/8 body and 2 free extra dragons which are usually decent, more mana cheat yay! You can argue that all this cards can flop and give you bad results but it's not like the outcome sucks every time, more often than not you'll swing the game and win cause of them. This class is the biggest offender as I said.
This is one of the more "honest" decks we currently have. As I said it almost doesn't mana cheat, you can only see Clear the Way and Veranus as forms of mana cheating and let's be honest, with all the ridiculous swing turns we have on the meta this is pretty acceptable. So if this deck barely mana cheats, how is it so good? Well it's a sort of perfect storm for Quest Hunter, a deck that was previously unplayable became good cause it exploit one of Rogue's weaknesses in being able to swarm the board multiple times, if you pair that with a finisher like post-quest Leeroy + Hounds then you have the perfect Rogue slayer. Also Veranus does play a big role, if it wasn't for him, a deck like Embiggen Druid would absolutely farm you, but he allows you to not fall behind while you finish your quest. Overall is probably the most fair deck we'll see in a while.
My second most hated deck but it's arguably the only one that doesn't mana cheat. You could argue the side quest is a bit of mana cheating but not really, it just happens to click incredibly well with your main and only game plan and it rewards you with more of the same stuff. I hate this deck cause it's just brainless and has 1 plan, push all face and hope you draw enough damage, that's it, but I said this was not a salt post and I intend to keep it that way. A hyper aggresive deck that tries to maximize damage to the face, no mana cheating here.
This deck took a hit with the most recent nerfs but it's still decent. To start with I'll just say that getting 9/6 with rush split into 3 bodies for just 4 mana is pretty "generous", the mana cheating starts in the mid-game with this Warrior deck. With Galakrond it's a different story, to begin with as stated before you get an Arcanite Reaper and draw 4 cards off this bad boy, which by Hearthstone standards it's 12 mana so you already cheated 5 mana to begin with, but then we see a different way of mana cheating, stats buffing, this one might not make your cards cost 0 like rogue does but it gives 4 of your minions +4/+4 making them way stronger than they should be for their mana cost, so this is as well another form to mana cheat, if I play a 1 mana 1/2 then it's okay but if I play a 1 mana 5/6 then that seems a bit unfair and sounds like mana cheating to me.
On this one the mana cheating is like on the middle of the pack, not too strong but impactful and consistent. Invoking gives you 2 1/1s every time and that is obviosly very good, specially when you have cards like Sacrificial Pact and Plague of Flames to push this even further. Then drawing 3 cards and getting a 5/4 on top of that also seems pretty cheaty if you ask me. Finally Galakrond himself also cheats, you get your 5 mana weapon as every other Gala and then 4 random demons, which means that if the combination of them gives you at least 3 worth of stats then you already started to mana cheat and as there are no 0 cost demons it means you always cheat at least 2 extra mana on the worst case scenario. Most builds also run Dragonqueen Alex but I won't talk about her anymore as she's been covered on the Highlander Rogue section.
I'm not even gonna try to hide the fact that this is by far the deck I hate the most on the meta. Priest was my favorite class when I started playing, it seemed like the unicorn class that had not so good cards but you could make decent decks that felt fun, my favorite deck of all time is actually Raza Priest, and I know that deck has been one of the most unhealthy and bullshit on HS history but, what can you do? I just loved it so much. Having said that I've always thought the resurrect mechanic is pure unbalanced bullshit, it's supposed to be balanced by the fact that most resurrect cards are random and you could revive anything but this is easily avoidable by just playing cards that you want to revive thus making your revive pool contain only good cards, this is not enough of a back draw to ever make resurrect even a mediocre mechanic. it's simply the embodiment of mana cheating.
I was so happy when the spellstone and Eternal Servitude rotated and then we get Psychopomp and Mass Resurrection with extra Katrina Muerte flavor on top. The resurrect mechanic is simply lazy and poorly balanced from its core and I'm not afraid to said that it's at least top 3 on the most hated mechanics from the community. Blizzard stopped supporting the Charge mechanic entirely as is felt "uninteractive" and "unfair" and it was "frustrating" to play against and I sincerely can't think about anything more frustrating to play against than the resurrect mechanic as a whole. This deck is just a cesspool of healing, removal and mana cheat.
This post was intended to spark discussion about how people see the current meta and how does it feel, do you feel it's fun or not? Even if it's fun do you agree that it's unhealthy and it comes down mostly to swing turns and to the point of whoever highrolls harder and/or faster wins the game?
I ended up giving some insight and showcasing most of the prominent meta decks right now so if you want to discuss about their composition and how they stand in the meta I guess it's alright as well, any sort of discussion is welcomed. Thank you for reading this long post and sorry for any mistakes.
We've seen worse Meta's, but I whole heartedly agree with you, the big elephant in the room being the big bully for Control decks, Res Priest, sucking out all the Fun that one can have in fairly balanced Matchups like Control Shaman vs Embiggen Druid, both which can get adjusted to the rest of the decks and are generally most fun to play, until you meet the next Soul-less, boring Res Priest or Face Huntet Netdecker.
Yeah, I didn't say the meta was bad per se, it's probably the most fun one we've had in like a year or so but there are some game where you can be winning and then one turn and your opponent does something so back breaking you simply lose and sometimes there's nothing you can do to play around it even if you know it's gonna happen.
Hope that one day they announce Hearthstone 2
Your definition of mana cheating is very loose. From what I can tell, your definition of mana cheating is any card that puts out more value or stats than a typical card of the same mana cost.
How I understand mana cheating is that it's a mechanic that lets the player play a card earlier than that card was designed to be played. It causes problems because that card was designed for when the opponent has more mana for removal or a bigger board to contend with. Plus, high mana cards run the risk of being dead in hand for a long time. Mana cheating lets cards get around those factors. A 9 drop is much stronger against an opponent with 5 mana and a few early drops than an opponent with 10 mana and a bunch of 5 and 6 drops. So much stronger that it leaves the opponent feeling hopeless, and like they want to quit this god forsaken game.
A good example of mana cheating (imo) that people don't normally think of is the old Innervate Vicious Fledgling combo. Flappy bird is a 3/3 for 3, which means it's supposed to be played on turn 3. By that point, the opponent has had time to develop minions and draw removal to kill it. That's fine. But when flappy bird comes down on 1 thanks to innervate, the opponent has drawn fewer cards, has a weaker board if any at all, and fewer mana to cast removals with. Flappy bird on 3 is easy to kill. Flappy bird on 1 is almost impossible. And then it hits windfury, or at least some protection from removal so you still can't kill it, and it wins the game from there. Nobody got to play a game. One player drew the right cards and the other player died.
That's why I don't consider Galakrond, Dragonqueen, etc., mana cheats. They were meant to be played when they are. They're just very overstatted for the cost. Blizzard wanted people to feel good when they play the card they built their deck around, so they make those cards extra powerful. That's what a payoff is. Now, is galakrond good design? No, he's bullshit in every scenario, but he's a different kind of problem.
I like how you tag "netdecker" on face hunter like EVERY single deck on ladder isn't a net deck. Net decking is fine, but don't act like some stupid part of face hunter is the fact that it was net decked lol.
There are different ways to cheat mana. So what can be considered mana cheating? As its name says, you can consider mana cheating anything that breaks the laws of the mana crystals you have in any way.
Having said that, the thing you said is the most straight forward form of mana cheating, which is putting something on board that isn't supposed to be there via any method. Examples of this are Possed Lackey pulling Voidlord from your deck or Barnes + any resurrect shenanigans. So, let's consider something, would you consider that a card like Dragon's Pack isn't mana cheating by this definition? There's no way currently to play this card before turn 5 but even if you play it on turn 5 then that's a board state that shouldn't be possible by that turn according to Hearthstone standards. That's my point, we've come to the point where Blizzard is printing cards that straight up mana cheat without them necessarily having to be played earlier, if I told you there is a 2 mana 6/6 that can only be played from hand without any "cheating" mechanic and doesn't have any backdraws, just a vanilla 6/6, would you say that card isn't cheating a lot of mana? even if you can pull it out or summon it some weird way it doesn't mean it's ok, it would be a card that isn't supposed to be a thing on that turn according to the historic HS record.
Another definition of mana cheating could be a card that gives you a lot more mana pay off according to the standards there are. As an example of this see Ultimate Infestation this is probably the first card we saw that had too much value for its cost. I think the calc back in the day was that this card gave you like 17.5 worth of mana and you only payed 10 so that also is mana cheating, if you pay 10 mana and get your 10 in return worth of value and then get extra 7 wouldn't you say the Druid cheated with its mana? Nowdays, most Galakronds are a perfect example of this, on their "ultimate" form they all have a 5/2 weapon, which we all know is already a card called Arcanite Reaper and costs 5 mana and then they all give you extra stuff. So you already got 5 mana off that weapon and then drawing 4 free cards, or 4 demons or drawing 4 cards and buffing them by 8 stats each for a total of 32 stats (+4/+4) is indeed a form of mana cheat, you are paying 7 mana for them and then gettting a ton more value and/or tempo as a payoff and the only thing you have to do is playing slightly understated cards that fill your curve and have side effects on top of it, most Galakronds invokers mana cheat slightly and Galakronds throws that mana cheating method off the roof by a mile.
The last way of mana cheating is similar to the first one, you're getting too many stats, the only difference is that you could find it more "fair" as the cards come down in the turn they're supposed to but that doesn't mean thats a good game design. An example of this is when Kathreena Winterwisp pulled a 7+ cost beast that had either rush, taunt or charge from your deck into the board, you didn't only get her 6/6 body but also a giant beast and she floated into another giant beast. Isn't that mana cheating? You couldn't play her before turn 8 on Deathrattle hunter but she gave you way too many stats for her 8 mana cost even if you played her from hand on turn 8. Dragonqueen is an almost identical example. There's usually no way to cheat her out while activating her battlecry but she gives you a ton of stats for just 9 mana, that isn't supposed to happen and there aren't a lot of decks that can deal with this swing turns even on turn 9, you could argue the other player had 9 turns to draw answers to this card but that's not realistic, on a vaccum that's the truth but on reality many variables can happen in 9 turns to the point where even decks that run removal could simply not have one in hand cause they had to use it on previous turn to not lose the game. Cards like this are indeed mana cheating as they bend the laws of what mana is supposed to do.
And of course comparing cards to some other cards that have the same effect for different mana cost is a way to make mana cheating evident lol if not what's the purpose of this old cards? That's the reason we have the term "vanilla minion" on HS, there's a reason a vanilla minion like Yeti doesn't see play anymore, you compare it to other 4 mana minions and the other minions do better stuff or have more stats or are more efficient to play on this same mana slot, this same principle can be applied to mana cheating.
I think you are confusing "Mana cheating" with "Overpowered (OP)". Mana cheating is playing or summoning a minion earlier than expected. Using your example, If you play a vanilla 2-mana 6/6 on turn 2 (or turn 1 with coin), you are not mana cheating, you are just playing an overpowered card that the game designers created to be played on turn 1-2.
Said that, I think Galakrond and lackeys are overpowered and unhealthy. The amount of value you can get from lackeys (especially Rogue's Galakrond) is insane. Also, why lackeys and Galakrond are E.V.I.L exclusive? Why didn't they allow these mechanics to be played for all classes (with another name and lore)? That causes an unbalanced metagame. But somehow it is still funny.
Greetings, traveler.
Let's make Hunter great.
Sorry that I didn’t read the whole post, but I doubt you wouldn’t be able to forgive me for that. I think I got the jist of it. So my question is, what’s the alternative?
They continue to release new cards and there are only so many ways you can express what a 4 mana minion looks like. With HS’s limited keywords and lack of activated abilities the creative space is further challenged. One way to implement variety to to fudge with and manipulate the rules or basic structure of the game.
And isn’t the fact that you have so many examples of mana cheating actually a good thing? Because if only one class or deck had it available to them, then clearly the rest wouldn’t be able to compete.
Power creeping and printing insane cards is a different thing. Power creeping is inevitable, not just in HS but in any card game. I'm not saying that we should expect a card like Yeti to be forever viable, that's unrealistic and boring but that doesn't mean it's okay for blizzard to print bonkers card, in every set there are ok and good examples of power crept but justifing the insane cards they have been printing with "well you can't expect for them to print cards with the same power level" is just lazy, that same lazyness (and greed) is what pushed blizz to print this insane cards on the first place.
On your second line of thought with the "well good shit everyone has broken shit" then that's also not ok. That's the problem, first of all not all classes are equally powerful, not even close, Mage is behind 7 classes and it's not close and Paladin is almost dead rn. Other than that it isn't healthy that all classes have ridiculous cards, you could think "if everyone is broken then no one is broken" but that isn't a realistic point of view, then that just means the games is less about skill and more about who highrolls harder and/or faster. as I said there are time you can't play around a certain turn even if you know is going to happen, even if it's absolutely obvious, there isn't a single line of play or card in your deck that can save you, that isn't healthy game design.
The game basics make this unbalanced and uninteractive.
The thing about that definition is that it's muddy to the point of not being useful. You're essentially saying "this card offers more than you would expect for its mana cost." But the thing is, all cards that see play are good for the cost. That's why they see play. If so, where do you define that line? Is Dwarven Sharpshooter mana cheating? It's a 1/3 with a significant upside, and Crystallizer has seen play in decks where it's text doesn't matter. Doesn't Sharpshooter violate the standard set by Crystallizer? Isn't that mana cheating?
The issue with your definition is that either a) "this card mana cheats" is just another way of saying "this card is good," or b) there's some made up line or numerical value where the card becomes mana cheating. Even if you draw that line somewhere, it just changes "this card is good" to mean "its very good," or "overpowered." That's a useless term right there. A buzzword people use to sound smart. The way I defined mana cheating actually means something. It breaks the game by allowing expensive things to come down before they normally could. It causes problems for a specific reason, that at that point there's little or no hope of beating it because it was designed to come down later.
You can define it however you like, words have the meanings we give them, but the way you're defining it kind of misses the point. It's just another way to say "this card is good," and you tack on some numbers and comparisons so you can prove it.
Woah, huge wall of text out there.
For those who don’t want to read it through, the main point is author doesn’t like almost every decent deck in this meta and complains about them being strong.
i don’t see what most of those decks have to do with mana cheating but he says it himself
It's more high-roll-y than I'd like, but in general, I think it's fine.
We see shifts in "the best deck" almost weekly since the first round of Shaman nerfs. Some of this is absolutely due to nerfs and new releases. But it's also because there is so much powerful stuff out there that counters are almost always found to the "best deck" of the week.
There are a lot of decks that are very competitive. And there's a spot for nearly everything...except Paladin really.
The only decks I really hate are Face Hunter and Rogue.
Face Hunter is so stupid. You can win on turn 7 by literally ignoring your opponent and "going face." It's dumb, and really not fun to play against.
Rogue is obnoxious because they have so many ways to generate a million lackeys, and on top of that enjoy the standard busted cards of Van Cleef, etc.
bro,control shaman and warrior get free win vs rez priest, you must be playing it wrong. my beef is with control decks just losing to rogue 's broken turns with all the 0 mana cards. but seriously, u shouldnt never lose to quest or rez priest with control.
Shhh... the longer it takes for everyone to figure out a well placed Hex or Plague of Murlocs played right after Zerek’s cloning gallery the more free wins we can get keep cranking out with rez priest. Seriously, it is one of the easiest decks to tech against.
Please explain the difference between "Fine" and "Just another meta," because right now they combine to 44.1% of the vote, which is a pretty big plurality.
There's 2 problems with the current meta: Mana Cheat and Card Generation. Both are completely out of control right now. All the decks you listed cover the first, but I'd also like to point out that Mountain Giant and Sea Giant have caused this problem for the last year.
Then you get the card generation problem which popped in the last year mostly due to lackeys. A lot of card were added that generate lackies, then those lackies generate more shit. It's hard to play a limited deck right now, cause you can play powerful stuff every turn, but if your opponent is running decks like All rogues, all shamans, gala priest (there is a viable one now), spell mage, gala zoolock, and a few others which have so much card generation that they can run you out of cards by playing more than you and still be having issues keeping their hand under 10.
That problem won't be fixed until the April 2021 rotation. The meta is a mess now, but I'd take this over the Deathknight meta.
I think it'd be beneficial for them to Hof ALL giants (Sea and mountain) and Leeroy in April. Also look into balancing some of the current card. Embiggen needs to be nerfed to only being +1/1. Frizz needs a nerf it's overstatted and undercost for what it does. The lack of decent mid and early game defense options is why face hunter is out of control. All the anti-tech we got was garbage. Hecklebot summons dangerous stuff more often than not. Albatross is too slow to play in an aggro meta. The cast a spell from enemies hand 6 minion never did much useful. Hakkar had some uses and still does, but the problem is that it's slow and it's rotating in april .
Priest might become useless in april since Mass Hysteria and cloning gallery are rotating out.
Mana cheat is drop a card that cost X for X-Y, other than that is not.