Rogue have many good classic cards can keep her in your feet most of the time but is unfair to say is an overpowered class.
Never had a "roguestone" in HS history but...
Have a shamanstone when midrange shaman destroy everything else and in the first week of DoD.
Have a prieststone before Raza nerf.
Have a druidstone after the release of KFT.
Have a paladinstone with MC before the rotation and release of Eater Of Secrets.
In other words, rogue never was in the garbage tier but never was in Tier S too.
Lol what are you talking about never having a roguestone? Keleseth pirate rogue? 2015 miracle rogue? How long ya been playin bud?
In the same time of Keleseth rogue have pirate warrior, paladin and tons of decks abusing of Patches and Creeper, yes, rogue are one of the top dogs in that meta but don't was a Tier S class with nothing else can compete, like shamanstone or Razakus Priest.
Rogue have many good classic cards can keep her in your feet most of the time but is unfair to say is an overpowered class.
Never had a "roguestone" in HS history but...
Have a shamanstone when midrange shaman destroy everything else and in the first week of DoD.
Have a prieststone before Raza nerf.
Have a druidstone after the release of KFT.
Have a paladinstone with MC before the rotation and release of Eater Of Secrets.
In other words, rogue never was in the garbage tier but never was in Tier S too.
Lol what are you talking about never having a roguestone? Keleseth pirate rogue? 2015 miracle rogue? How long ya been playin bud?
In the same time of Keleseth rogue have pirate warrior, paladin and tons of decks abusing of Patches and Creeper, yes, rogue are one of the top dogs in that meta but don't was a Tier S class with nothing else can compete, like shamanstone or Razakus Priest.
And pre leeroy nerf miracle rogue? What even came close save combo Druid? Also, keleseth rogue was absolutely S tier. You can't say just because there were other good decks that rogue wasn't S tier. You specifically said in your post that rogue was never S tier, but keleseth rogue 100% was. And odd rogue definitely was as well.
Backstab and Sap are just ridiculous if you take a closer look at them.
Blizzard tryed and probably will try to make cards with those effects on minions ( like that pirate that saps a guy , but I cannot remember the name atm), but makeing a card that could replace those would be powercreep beyond all madness.
Everytime i play Tirion, and he gets Sap‘d I think " Hmm 2 Mana: make your opponent skip a turn and make his Tirion cost 16 Mana... seems balanced...."
Its an extreme example for sure, but it shows how polarizing the card is.
This is exactly it. It's amazing that of all the hearthpwn complaints, you never hear anything about sap.
Rogue have many good classic cards can keep her in your feet most of the time but is unfair to say is an overpowered class.
Never had a "roguestone" in HS history but...
Have a shamanstone when midrange shaman destroy everything else and in the first week of DoD.
Have a prieststone before Raza nerf.
Have a druidstone after the release of KFT.
Have a paladinstone with MC before the rotation and release of Eater Of Secrets.
In other words, rogue never was in the garbage tier but never was in Tier S too.
Lol what are you talking about never having a roguestone? Keleseth pirate rogue? 2015 miracle rogue? How long ya been playin bud?
In the same time of Keleseth rogue have pirate warrior, paladin and tons of decks abusing of Patches and Creeper, yes, rogue are one of the top dogs in that meta but don't was a Tier S class with nothing else can compete, like shamanstone or Razakus Priest.
And pre leeroy nerf miracle rogue?
At that time we have prenerf druid cards, handlocks with prenerfs preHoF giants but ok... I give that one, if we had a Tier S rogue moment in this game history was in that time, Auctionner for 5 and Leeroy for 4 was absurd in rogue decks.
Backstab and Sap are just ridiculous if you take a closer look at them.
Blizzard tryed and probably will try to make cards with those effects on minions ( like that pirate that saps a guy , but I cannot remember the name atm), but makeing a card that could replace those would be powercreep beyond all madness.
Everytime i play Tirion, and he gets Sap‘d I think " Hmm 2 Mana: make your opponent skip a turn and make his Tirion cost 16 Mana... seems balanced...."
Its an extreme example for sure, but it shows how polarizing the card is.
This is exactly it. It's amazing that of all the hearthpwn complaints, you never hear anything about sap.
Rogue have many good classic cards can keep her in your feet most of the time but is unfair to say is an overpowered class.
Never had a "roguestone" in HS history but...
Have a shamanstone when midrange shaman destroy everything else and in the first week of DoD.
Have a prieststone before Raza nerf.
Have a druidstone after the release of KFT.
Have a paladinstone with MC before the rotation and release of Eater Of Secrets.
In other words, rogue never was in the garbage tier but never was in Tier S too.
Lol what are you talking about never having a roguestone? Keleseth pirate rogue? 2015 miracle rogue? How long ya been playin bud?
In the same time of Keleseth rogue have pirate warrior, paladin and tons of decks abusing of Patches and Creeper, yes, rogue are one of the top dogs in that meta but don't was a Tier S class with nothing else can compete, like shamanstone or Razakus Priest.
And pre leeroy nerf miracle rogue?
At that time we have prenerf druid cards, handlocks with prenerfs preHoF giants but ok... I give that one, if we had a Tier S rogue moment in this game history was in that time, Auctionner for 5 and Leeroy for 4 was absurd in rogue decks.
I appreciate that, but keleseth rogue and odd rogue were also both tier S as well. And that was reflected on any tier list at the time.
Backstab and Sap are just ridiculous if you take a closer look at them.
Blizzard tryed and probably will try to make cards with those effects on minions ( like that pirate that saps a guy , but I cannot remember the name atm), but makeing a card that could replace those would be powercreep beyond all madness.
Everytime i play Tirion, and he gets Sap‘d I think " Hmm 2 Mana: make your opponent skip a turn and make his Tirion cost 16 Mana... seems balanced...."
Its an extreme example for sure, but it shows how polarizing the card is.
This is exactly it. It's amazing that of all the hearthpwn complaints, you never hear anything about sap.
Posts from 2016 dont count since i can only remember stuff from this week.
Joking aside, the reason people dont complain a lot about sap is probably owed the fact sap is just mediocre against aggressive, or decks with only Battlecry minions (like Control Warrior had) .
Still, the polarizing aspect is too high imo. Its like Blizzard would print a card that says : 2 mana heal and set your health to 50..... Pretty useless in a control or midrage mirror , since the card doesnt generate or do anything for the boardstate. But against classes that try to end the game with Burst its unreasonable strong. So strong infact, that the class that uses this spell would never really be bad...
Maybe it was a bad example but u get the point . I also remember a arena (usually i dont watch arena stuff) video coupple years ago where Kripp talked about the same thing. Sap is probably even more broken there. People are just hoping for their opponent to play their big whatever-Bolderfist Ogre, and sap it to get the temposwing.
So much bitching about sap, then you stop thinking for a moment and realize that wasn't played (for obvious reasons) in Keleseth Rogue and Odd Rogue and guess what? Not even quest rogue. And the current highlander deck (of course) only runs one.
Sure, the fact that its core set has backstab, SI7, eviscerate, prep, Edwin, shadowstep (and yes, sap) helps a lot. But I think that hero power plays a big role too. So much tempo. On turn 2 with an empty board and nothing else to do is probably the best (after life tap, but that's also relative).
Also, it could be that it actually benefits from going second, because of the coin that helps activate combo, while for other classes it's usually not so great
"Why is it the only class that ALWAYS has some good to disgunstigly OP deck no matter what the expansion is like?"
If this is true, please list down all the Rogue decks in every meta that are "disgustingly OP".
5 mana draw a card, give all minions in your hand +3/+3 seems a little OP compared to other classes.
I'm not even saying this to counter your post, but have you even seen apocathary since nerf? I've played at least 60 games since patch and have not seen it a single time. Even having faced many rogues along the way.
"Why is it the only class that ALWAYS has some good to disgunstigly OP deck no matter what the expansion is like?"
If this is true, please list down all the Rogue decks in every meta that are "disgustingly OP".
5 mana draw a card, give all minions in your hand +3/+3 seems a little OP compared to other classes.
I'm not even saying this to counter your post, but have you even seen apocathary since nerf? I've played at least 60 games since patch and have not seen it a single time. Even having faced many rogues along the way.
I'm ~rank 10 aanndd I've seen Plenty... more than I would like to have seen, "nerf" didn't seem to change much...
Then again this seems to be the elo that the players are trash, countless misplays, but bc they play the fast aggro decks they climb to here and get stuck, getting all their wins based off lucky card draws
"Why is it the only class that ALWAYS has some good to disgunstigly OP deck no matter what the expansion is like?"
If this is true, please list down all the Rogue decks in every meta that are "disgustingly OP".
5 mana draw a card, give all minions in your hand +3/+3 seems a little OP compared to other classes.
I'm not even saying this to counter your post, but have you even seen apocathary since nerf? I've played at least 60 games since patch and have not seen it a single time. Even having faced many rogues along the way.
I'm ~rank 10 aanndd I've seen Plenty... more than I would like to have seen, "nerf" didn't seem to change much...
Then again this seems to be the elo that the players are trash, countless misplays, but bc they play the fast aggro decks they climb to here and get stuck, getting all their wins based off lucky card draws
The nerf was quite efficient my friend, play that garbage 2/5 card it's almost the same as play mechanical whelp itself.
"Why is it the only class that ALWAYS has some good to disgunstigly OP deck no matter what the expansion is like?"
If this is true, please list down all the Rogue decks in every meta that are "disgustingly OP".
5 mana draw a card, give all minions in your hand +3/+3 seems a little OP compared to other classes.
I'm not even saying this to counter your post, but have you even seen apocathary since nerf? I've played at least 60 games since patch and have not seen it a single time. Even having faced many rogues along the way.
I'm ~rank 10 aanndd I've seen Plenty... more than I would like to have seen, "nerf" didn't seem to change much...
Then again this seems to be the elo that the players are trash, countless misplays, but bc they play the fast aggro decks they climb to here and get stuck, getting all their wins based off lucky card draws
The nerf was quite efficient my friend, play that garbage 2/5 card it's almost the same as play mechanical whelp itself.
The only change was ... +1 mana cost? .... buy yourself one turn... still have 20 cards to pull through in hoping you get your one or two existing answers for One of his four possible buffs... and God forbid he gets both apothecary's and the legend that makes his cards 1 cost 1/1s ... so he can fill his hand with 1 mana 7/7s by turn 7 ... and that's without deathrattle weapon...
:|
And I'm not sure what your measure of efficiency is... but seeing as it is still used pretty commonly... I'm going to have to disagree
EDIT: Literally just played against 3* more, in a row.
How about when kingsbane rogue was in standard before the nerf of leeching poison, and before the DK rotation and HoF of cold light oracle? You could mill someone out, while never running out of cards thanks to double kingsbane and one of those kingsbane cards was enormous with lifesteal and would reshuffle into your deck. That was peak rogue for me. I ran a deck with the darkness as a finisher and thanks to valeera dk, it went off consistently.
Backstab and Sap are just ridiculous if you take a closer look at them.
Blizzard tryed and probably will try to make cards with those effects on minions ( like that pirate that saps a guy , but I cannot remember the name atm), but makeing a card that could replace those would be powercreep beyond all madness.
Everytime i play Tirion, and he gets Sap‘d I think " Hmm 2 Mana: make your opponent skip a turn and make his Tirion cost 16 Mana... seems balanced...."
Its an extreme example for sure, but it shows how polarizing the card is.
This is exactly it. It's amazing that of all the hearthpwn complaints, you never hear anything about sap.
Posts from 2016 dont count since i can only remember stuff from this week.
Joking aside, the reason people dont complain a lot about sap is probably owed the fact sap is just mediocre against aggressive, or decks with only Battlecry minions (like Control Warrior had) .
Still, the polarizing aspect is too high imo. Its like Blizzard would print a card that says : 2 mana heal and set your health to 50..... Pretty useless in a control or midrage mirror , since the card doesnt generate or do anything for the boardstate. But against classes that try to end the game with Burst its unreasonable strong. So strong infact, that the class that uses this spell would never really be bad...
Maybe it was a bad example but u get the point . I also remember a arena (usually i dont watch arena stuff) video coupple years ago where Kripp talked about the same thing. Sap is probably even more broken there. People are just hoping for their opponent to play their big whatever-Bolderfist Ogre, and sap it to get the temposwing.
Yep, Sap is usually crazy strong in arena, it generates a great temposwing in a mode that is, most of the time, all about tempo. I remember having watched Kripp's video about it. The card is usually problematic in constructed too, I agree with you on that. ;)
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fair point but it was very popular and id say those were 'roguestone' times.
It's more accurate to say so about hunter actually. For almost 2 years hunter have been consistently somewhere at the top in the matter of winrate
Lol what are you talking about never having a roguestone? Keleseth pirate rogue? 2015 miracle rogue? How long ya been playin bud?
In the same time of Keleseth rogue have pirate warrior, paladin and tons of decks abusing of Patches and Creeper, yes, rogue are one of the top dogs in that meta but don't was a Tier S class with nothing else can compete, like shamanstone or Razakus Priest.
And pre leeroy nerf miracle rogue? What even came close save combo Druid? Also, keleseth rogue was absolutely S tier. You can't say just because there were other good decks that rogue wasn't S tier. You specifically said in your post that rogue was never S tier, but keleseth rogue 100% was. And odd rogue definitely was as well.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/235101-so-what-about-sap
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/233283-sap-your-game-away
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/187202-hex-sheep-sap-and-entomb-bad-rant
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/153822-my-case-against-sap
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/134418-no-upcoming-nerf-for-innervate-and-sap
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/95058-why-is-sap-only-2-mana
Did you say something???
At that time we have prenerf druid cards, handlocks with prenerfs preHoF giants but ok... I give that one, if we had a Tier S rogue moment in this game history was in that time, Auctionner for 5 and Leeroy for 4 was absurd in rogue decks.
I stand corrected on this. Haven't seen anything on it in the last 1/2 year so it didn't come to mind.
I appreciate that, but keleseth rogue and odd rogue were also both tier S as well. And that was reflected on any tier list at the time.
Because
Posts from 2016 dont count since i can only remember stuff from this week.
Joking aside, the reason people dont complain a lot about sap is probably owed the fact sap is just mediocre against aggressive, or decks with only Battlecry minions (like Control Warrior had) .
Still, the polarizing aspect is too high imo. Its like Blizzard would print a card that says : 2 mana heal and set your health to 50..... Pretty useless in a control or midrage mirror , since the card doesnt generate or do anything for the boardstate. But against classes that try to end the game with Burst its unreasonable strong. So strong infact, that the class that uses this spell would never really be bad...
Maybe it was a bad example but u get the point . I also remember a arena (usually i dont watch arena stuff) video coupple years ago where Kripp talked about the same thing. Sap is probably even more broken there. People are just hoping for their opponent to play their big whatever-Bolderfist Ogre, and sap it to get the temposwing.
So much bitching about sap, then you stop thinking for a moment and realize that wasn't played (for obvious reasons) in Keleseth Rogue and Odd Rogue and guess what? Not even quest rogue. And the current highlander deck (of course) only runs one.
Sure, the fact that its core set has backstab, SI7, eviscerate, prep, Edwin, shadowstep (and yes, sap) helps a lot. But I think that hero power plays a big role too. So much tempo. On turn 2 with an empty board and nothing else to do is probably the best (after life tap, but that's also relative).
Also, it could be that it actually benefits from going second, because of the coin that helps activate combo, while for other classes it's usually not so great
5 mana minion on the board + draw a card + give ALL minions in your hand +3/+3 seems a little OP compared to other classes.
-DadamE
I'm not even saying this to counter your post, but have you even seen apocathary since nerf? I've played at least 60 games since patch and have not seen it a single time. Even having faced many rogues along the way.
I'm ~rank 10 aanndd I've seen Plenty... more than I would like to have seen, "nerf" didn't seem to change much...
Then again this seems to be the elo that the players are trash, countless misplays, but bc they play the fast aggro decks they climb to here and get stuck, getting all their wins based off lucky card draws
-DadamE
The nerf was quite efficient my friend, play that garbage 2/5 card it's almost the same as play mechanical whelp itself.
The only change was ... +1 mana cost? .... buy yourself one turn... still have 20 cards to pull through in hoping you get your one or two existing answers for One of his four possible buffs... and God forbid he gets both apothecary's and the legend that makes his cards 1 cost 1/1s ... so he can fill his hand with 1 mana 7/7s by turn 7 ... and that's without deathrattle weapon...
:|
And I'm not sure what your measure of efficiency is... but seeing as it is still used pretty commonly... I'm going to have to disagree
EDIT: Literally just played against 3* more, in a row.
-DadamE
How about when kingsbane rogue was in standard before the nerf of leeching poison, and before the DK rotation and HoF of cold light oracle? You could mill someone out, while never running out of cards thanks to double kingsbane and one of those kingsbane cards was enormous with lifesteal and would reshuffle into your deck. That was peak rogue for me. I ran a deck with the darkness as a finisher and thanks to valeera dk, it went off consistently.
What do u mean it is bad now after nerf .
Yep, Sap is usually crazy strong in arena, it generates a great temposwing in a mode that is, most of the time, all about tempo. I remember having watched Kripp's video about it. The card is usually problematic in constructed too, I agree with you on that. ;)