A simple search might have helped there - people have been complaining about Leeroy since BETA... :-P
yeah but i think if you gonna search any card you wild find people complain about it xd
Absolutely - but the point was that Leeroy has been complained about plenty of times in the past; in fact, for a while, he was one of the most complained about cards (he even ended up getting nerfed a while back if memory serves) - as opposed to the previous commenter's assertion that "anyone didn't complain about him in the past that much".
I've been thinking about the card myself a bit lately, and a simple lowering of his health (and summon 1 less minion for the opponent) would probably solve a number of current problems. Though I haven't taken a lot of time thinking about the full ramifications of that - just an idea to improve the balance of the card without losing it's core nature and flavour, etc.
While I think that it's possible Leeroy could see the HoF at some point, sending him there wouldn't really change much. Reckless Rocketeer will basically do the exact same thing. You will still get burst down from more than you want to be burst down from.
The break points are slightly different, but people would pretty quickly adapt.
I think the 1 mana difference with Rocketeer (and 1 damage to a lesser extent) makes a significant impact; otherwise, you would see it played a lot more like a safer and more versatile option to Leeroy. (Just my opinion)
Obviously all cards with charge should be HOFed long time ago, when they decided not to make new ones. It's absurd to decide charge is too strong to make new cards, but good enough to leave old ones in game.
Personally I don't have huge problem with the existence of it, but I for sure wouldn't shed tears if it was HoFed. If cards like Rag, Sly and Azure got the axe then I don't see why Leeroy wouldn't. Also they can take Maly too, fuck that dragon
Obviously all cards with charge should be HOFed long time ago, when they decided not to make new ones. It's absurd to decide charge is too strong to make new cards, but good enough to leave old ones in game.
Why?
Because it deals 20+ dmg out of nowhere? Don’t you think Blizzard knows this and somewhat wants this? ( I’m sure you didn’t forget the complaints when Control Warrior was top dog , and many ppl whined about 30+ minute games..) And don’t you think IF Leeroy/chargers gets HoFed, they would simply just print equal replacement cards? Or do you honestly believe they somehow rework Rogue?
Lets face it , they always want an aggressive playstyle to be somewhat competitive. If it’s executed by Leeroy any other charger, spells , whatever it doesn’t matter. There will always be that "cancer"card.
There was a time when people were absolutely SCREAMING for Malygos to be HOF'd because of the burst potential that he allowed.
That wave of bullshit eventually subsided, but it will return some day when another combo comes in to being that utilizes him and the meta is ruled by it.
This whole Leeroy thing right now is no different.
Just as a sidenote, a couple of days ago there was this reddit thread about how Blizzard changed their philosophy from people want : Fun and interactive, stuff.
To, people wanna do: Crazy ( aka broken) stuff.
..And if that’s actually Blizzards opinion, they HAVE to make cards that combo with gamefinishers ( Malygos Leeroy etc.) . An example is the Warloc Legendary that draws 4 cards and generates 2 extra slots . It’s neat but nothing where people get hyped about. Only stuff that has the potential to close games is relevant.
The original take on why cards should be HOF'd was that some cards were auto includes in (nearly) every deck of a certain archetype or would limit future card design. Feel free to correct me or add something if I'm wrong.
Azure drake used to fit in every midrange and control deck. Sylvanas in almost every control deck and Ragnaros fit in midrange, control & even tempo decks sometimes. Same goes for Power Overwhelming though it's limited to warlock only. Idk which streamer but one said that even if it was a 3/3 buff every warlock deck would probably still run it
Conceal & ice lance I think were HOF'd because either it would limit future card designs and/or were problematic in terms of interaction (conceal especially).
The point I'm making is that Leeroy does not limit card designs imo. The card was already nerfed from 4 mana to 5? (wasn't playing back then). The card does see fit in nearly every aggro deck and has seen and could see combo potential. BUT! Like someone said earlier this thread, reckless rocketeer does pretty much the same think but has 1 attack less. The 2 tokens that spawn are futile 9/10 times because it's used as a finisher.
Even if it gets HOF'd the impact will be quite minimal for ranked play. To be fair, I would like to see it HOF'd but that's 100% my own salt. I do like HOF'fing neutral cards over class cards to give classes more of an own identity, which I feel Blizzard struggles with sometimes.
If I remember correctly ( I didn’t played since day1 but still around since 2k14) , Leeroy was 5 mana and got buffed to 4 , and later in the Naxxramas days ( when Loatheb didn’t had the desired effect to stop Rogues go rampage on Ladder (( Rogues used him quite well for themselves)) , Leeroy ( and Auctioneer) got nerfed up by 1 mana.
I think the 1 mana difference with Rocketeer (and 1 damage to a lesser extent) makes a significant impact; otherwise, you would see it played a lot more like a safer and more versatile option to Leeroy. (Just my opinion)
"Safe" IMO, People would still hate it because people don't like burst because they don't like to lose. I think we'd have the same argument in X number of months.
Personally, I am completely okay with Leeroy. Aggro needs finishers too. Aggro needs to exist for a healthy metagame. And so does combo.
Besides, most burst combos take 8 to 10 mana. And you haven't assembled the pieces until late in the game. If you have lost to them, it's your fault for not either (a) winning already or (b) being prepared for it.
Not all classes have armor, and I don't think that they should. There's counterplay to these types of strategies.
With the few exceptions of times where we've had S-tier decks, not all decks are supposed to beat all types of strategies.
EDIT: There's that one tavern brawl that is just basic and classic. People LOVE it. I like it. But it's mostly swinging back and forth with wet noodles until one person bricks or draws one of the few swingy cards from those sets. This would get really old after a month. People would hate it. They would yell for the very few swingy cards to be nerfed. Then it's just a worthless wet noodle fight.
It is played too much for a classic card. In 36.3% of decks according to hsreplay. The next most played classic neutral is Acolyte of Pain at 13.6% which is a huge difference.
I am getting sick of it myself. Whenever I play against an aggro or specific combo deck...it's always the same ,,Hope they don't have Leeroy. It's a legendary, only a one off , on average they shouldn't have it by now... ,, and then it goes ,,LEEEEROOOY JEEENKIIINS,, and I roll my eyes.
I really hope Blizz HoF's it this year. I don't think aggro needs a super good neutral classic aggro card. There is no other classic card that comes close to Leeroy in terms of play rate so why should aggro decks have it any different than the other deck types? I think aggro players are just spoiled having it for so long. If aggro finishers are really that necessary for a healthy meta game...Blizz just needs to print some every now and then ( preferably class specific ones ) . At least it will be a bit different then.
Personally I don't have huge problem with the existence of it, but I for sure wouldn't shed tears if it was HoFed. If cards like Rag, Sly and Azure got the axe then I don't see why Leeroy wouldn't. Also they can take Maly too, fuck that dragon
Precisely why were Rag and Sly sent to the HoF? When those two cards were reintroduced into Standard last summer, they saw sporadic play in a few decks. Neither one made a huge impact on the decks they were played in, nor on the Meta as a whole. They are good cards, but simply being good doesn't necessarily cut it in Ranked play.
The question I'm posing is more than rhetorical. What I am really asking is what are the criteria for HoF? Play rate? Whine rate? Phase of the Moon? It's far from clear to me. That is why I think pondering what cards, if any, should be sent to the HoF to be rather pointless.
I mean he definitely is too strong but i feel like zilliax is even more op. according to hsreplay.net Leeroy is in 36.5% of the decks meanwhile zilliax is in 51%of the decks which means that on average there is a zilliax in every game.
How does popularity relates to balance ? Zilliax is played in almost every deck because every third deck is a aggro deck and Zilliax is the only way many decks can survive aggro. If you remove all aggro, most decks would cut Zilliax for some greedy card.
So Zilliax is just as good as the aggro in the meta, which is always very good.
It is played too much for a classic card. In 36.3% of decks according to hsreplay. The next most played classic neutral is Acolyte of Pain at 13.6% which is a huge difference.
I am getting sick of it myself. Whenever I play against an aggro or specific combo deck...it's always the same ,,Hope they don't have Leeroy. It's a legendary, only a one off , on average they shouldn't have it by now... ,, and then it goes ,,LEEEEROOOY JEEENKIIINS,, and I roll my eyes.
I really hope Blizz HoF's it this year. I don't think aggro needs a super good neutral classic aggro card. There is no other classic card that comes close to Leeroy in terms of play rate so why should aggro decks have it any different than the other deck types? I think aggro players are just spoiled having it for so long. If aggro finishers are really that necessary for a healthy meta game...Blizz just needs to print some every now and then ( preferably class specific ones ) . At least it will be a bit different then.
A counterargument ( wich always gets mentioned by JAlexander , the Rogue streamer) would be If aggressive decks don’t have a good neutral card , there would be nothing to go back to as a safety pick , if a class gets totally shafted an expansion ( JAlexanders words) .
Besides the point that not e every class can play Leeroy effective , he is somewhat right. For him it’s hard to imagine that Blizzard can make equally balanced aggro decks in a new expansion. And in a world without Leeroy etc. Only the class that got the best aggressive tools would see play.... A lot of grey theory
In my opinion it would be enough to make combo cards not so ridiculous by Themselves. Without these Leeroy is a 5 mana Fireball.
It is played too much for a classic card. In 36.3% of decks according to hsreplay. The next most played classic neutral is Acolyte of Pain at 13.6% which is a huge difference.
I am getting sick of it myself. Whenever I play against an aggro or specific combo deck...it's always the same ,,Hope they don't have Leeroy. It's a legendary, only a one off , on average they shouldn't have it by now... ,, and then it goes ,,LEEEEROOOY JEEENKIIINS,, and I roll my eyes.
I really hope Blizz HoF's it this year. I don't think aggro needs a super good neutral classic aggro card. There is no other classic card that comes close to Leeroy in terms of play rate so why should aggro decks have it any different than the other deck types? I think aggro players are just spoiled having it for so long. If aggro finishers are really that necessary for a healthy meta game...Blizz just needs to print some every now and then ( preferably class specific ones ) . At least it will be a bit different then.
A counterargument ( wich always gets mentioned by JAlexander , the Rogue streamer) would be If aggressive decks don’t have a good neutral card , there would be nothing to go back to as a safety pick , if a class gets totally shafted an expansion ( JAlexanders words) .
Besides the point that not e every class can play Leeroy effective , he is somewhat right. For him it’s hard to imagine that Blizzard can make equally balanced aggro decks in a new expansion. And in a world without Leeroy etc. Only the class that got the best aggressive tools would see play.... A lot of grey theory
In my opinion it would be enough to make combo cards not so ridiculous by Themselves. Without these Leeroy is a 5 mana Fireball.
I would like to see Leeroy go HoF, but I agree aggro rogue needs a finisher. I would like to see a charge card added to rogue’s classic set. They added a handful of classic neutral legendaries not so long ago, why not give each class a new classic legendary? Aggro hunter and rogue both need charge, warrior less because of weapons, but aggro shaman, druid, warlock and paladin do not. Get rid of the crutch of neutral aggro staples and add class specific cards that reinforce their strategy. Ideally, the classic neutral set should be things like ironbeak owl and acolyte of pain, general draw or support and tech cards that are for universal mechanics.
Absolutely - but the point was that Leeroy has been complained about plenty of times in the past; in fact, for a while, he was one of the most complained about cards (he even ended up getting nerfed a while back if memory serves) - as opposed to the previous commenter's assertion that "anyone didn't complain about him in the past that much".
I've been thinking about the card myself a bit lately, and a simple lowering of his health (and summon 1 less minion for the opponent) would probably solve a number of current problems.
Though I haven't taken a lot of time thinking about the full ramifications of that - just an idea to improve the balance of the card without losing it's core nature and flavour, etc.
I think the 1 mana difference with Rocketeer (and 1 damage to a lesser extent) makes a significant impact; otherwise, you would see it played a lot more like a safer and more versatile option to Leeroy.
(Just my opinion)
Pls hof it as many other charge cards
#WhineThread
Even if Leeroy is "constantly" killing me, there is no need for him to be HoFed.
Period.
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Obviously all cards with charge should be HOFed long time ago, when they decided not to make new ones. It's absurd to decide charge is too strong to make new cards, but good enough to leave old ones in game.
Personally I don't have huge problem with the existence of it, but I for sure wouldn't shed tears if it was HoFed. If cards like Rag, Sly and Azure got the axe then I don't see why Leeroy wouldn't. Also they can take Maly too, fuck that dragon
Why?
Because it deals 20+ dmg out of nowhere? Don’t you think Blizzard knows this and somewhat wants this? ( I’m sure you didn’t forget the complaints when Control Warrior was top dog , and many ppl whined about 30+ minute games..) And don’t you think IF Leeroy/chargers gets HoFed, they would simply just print equal replacement cards? Or do you honestly believe they somehow rework Rogue?
Lets face it , they always want an aggressive playstyle to be somewhat competitive. If it’s executed by Leeroy any other charger, spells , whatever it doesn’t matter. There will always be that "cancer"card.
There was a time when people were absolutely SCREAMING for Malygos to be HOF'd because of the burst potential that he allowed.
That wave of bullshit eventually subsided, but it will return some day when another combo comes in to being that utilizes him and the meta is ruled by it.
This whole Leeroy thing right now is no different.
Just as a sidenote, a couple of days ago there was this reddit thread about how Blizzard changed their philosophy from people want : Fun and interactive, stuff.
To, people wanna do: Crazy ( aka broken) stuff.
..And if that’s actually Blizzards opinion, they HAVE to make cards that combo with gamefinishers ( Malygos Leeroy etc.) . An example is the Warloc Legendary that draws 4 cards and generates 2 extra slots . It’s neat but nothing where people get hyped about. Only stuff that has the potential to close games is relevant.
The original take on why cards should be HOF'd was that some cards were auto includes in (nearly) every deck of a certain archetype or would limit future card design. Feel free to correct me or add something if I'm wrong.
Azure drake used to fit in every midrange and control deck. Sylvanas in almost every control deck and Ragnaros fit in midrange, control & even tempo decks sometimes. Same goes for Power Overwhelming though it's limited to warlock only. Idk which streamer but one said that even if it was a 3/3 buff every warlock deck would probably still run it
Conceal & ice lance I think were HOF'd because either it would limit future card designs and/or were problematic in terms of interaction (conceal especially).
The point I'm making is that Leeroy does not limit card designs imo. The card was already nerfed from 4 mana to 5? (wasn't playing back then). The card does see fit in nearly every aggro deck and has seen and could see combo potential. BUT! Like someone said earlier this thread, reckless rocketeer does pretty much the same think but has 1 attack less. The 2 tokens that spawn are futile 9/10 times because it's used as a finisher.
Even if it gets HOF'd the impact will be quite minimal for ranked play. To be fair, I would like to see it HOF'd but that's 100% my own salt. I do like HOF'fing neutral cards over class cards to give classes more of an own identity, which I feel Blizzard struggles with sometimes.
If I remember correctly ( I didn’t played since day1 but still around since 2k14) , Leeroy was 5 mana and got buffed to 4 , and later in the Naxxramas days ( when Loatheb didn’t had the desired effect to stop Rogues go rampage on Ladder (( Rogues used him quite well for themselves)) , Leeroy ( and Auctioneer) got nerfed up by 1 mana.
"Safe"
IMO, People would still hate it because people don't like burst because they don't like to lose. I think we'd have the same argument in X number of months.
Personally, I am completely okay with Leeroy. Aggro needs finishers too. Aggro needs to exist for a healthy metagame. And so does combo.
Besides, most burst combos take 8 to 10 mana. And you haven't assembled the pieces until late in the game. If you have lost to them, it's your fault for not either (a) winning already or (b) being prepared for it.
Not all classes have armor, and I don't think that they should. There's counterplay to these types of strategies.
With the few exceptions of times where we've had S-tier decks, not all decks are supposed to beat all types of strategies.
EDIT: There's that one tavern brawl that is just basic and classic. People LOVE it. I like it. But it's mostly swinging back and forth with wet noodles until one person bricks or draws one of the few swingy cards from those sets. This would get really old after a month. People would hate it. They would yell for the very few swingy cards to be nerfed. Then it's just a worthless wet noodle fight.
It is played too much for a classic card. In 36.3% of decks according to hsreplay. The next most played classic neutral is Acolyte of Pain at 13.6% which is a huge difference.
I am getting sick of it myself. Whenever I play against an aggro or specific combo deck...it's always the same ,,Hope they don't have Leeroy. It's a legendary, only a one off , on average they shouldn't have it by now... ,, and then it goes ,,LEEEEROOOY JEEENKIIINS,, and I roll my eyes.
I really hope Blizz HoF's it this year. I don't think aggro needs a super good neutral classic aggro card. There is no other classic card that comes close to Leeroy in terms of play rate so why should aggro decks have it any different than the other deck types? I think aggro players are just spoiled having it for so long. If aggro finishers are really that necessary for a healthy meta game...Blizz just needs to print some every now and then ( preferably class specific ones ) . At least it will be a bit different then.
You know what im really sick and tired in this game period? Getting hit in the face by 14 or 18+ damage for a one drop minion.
Precisely why were Rag and Sly sent to the HoF? When those two cards were reintroduced into Standard last summer, they saw sporadic play in a few decks. Neither one made a huge impact on the decks they were played in, nor on the Meta as a whole. They are good cards, but simply being good doesn't necessarily cut it in Ranked play.
The question I'm posing is more than rhetorical. What I am really asking is what are the criteria for HoF? Play rate? Whine rate? Phase of the Moon? It's far from clear to me. That is why I think pondering what cards, if any, should be sent to the HoF to be rather pointless.
How does popularity relates to balance ? Zilliax is played in almost every deck because every third deck is a aggro deck and Zilliax is the only way many decks can survive aggro. If you remove all aggro, most decks would cut Zilliax for some greedy card.
So Zilliax is just as good as the aggro in the meta, which is always very good.
A counterargument ( wich always gets mentioned by JAlexander , the Rogue streamer) would be If aggressive decks don’t have a good neutral card , there would be nothing to go back to as a safety pick , if a class gets totally shafted an expansion ( JAlexanders words) .
Besides the point that not e every class can play Leeroy effective , he is somewhat right. For him it’s hard to imagine that Blizzard can make equally balanced aggro decks in a new expansion. And in a world without Leeroy etc. Only the class that got the best aggressive tools would see play.... A lot of grey theory
In my opinion it would be enough to make combo cards not so ridiculous by Themselves. Without these Leeroy is a 5 mana Fireball.
I would like to see Leeroy go HoF, but I agree aggro rogue needs a finisher. I would like to see a charge card added to rogue’s classic set. They added a handful of classic neutral legendaries not so long ago, why not give each class a new classic legendary? Aggro hunter and rogue both need charge, warrior less because of weapons, but aggro shaman, druid, warlock and paladin do not. Get rid of the crutch of neutral aggro staples and add class specific cards that reinforce their strategy. Ideally, the classic neutral set should be things like ironbeak owl and acolyte of pain, general draw or support and tech cards that are for universal mechanics.
He just wants to enjoy his chicken in peace :(
... and wants to have some bacon with it. Sorry Huffer, but everything tastes better with bacon.