I'm sorry, but someone has to say this: this community has been pretty awful at predicting outcomes of buffs, nerfs or even new sets. Let's just write down what we know for now.
Shaman is no longer able to coin out Elementalist on 4, to then Dragon's Pack on 5. Those were the power plays. Granted, it's delayed with one turn, but we know from experience that that matters more than we always think beforehand. Also, keeping a 6-mana card in your hand in mulligan is quite risky.
People underestimate the survivability Sludge Slurper gave to Shaman in the early game. Just as an example, it no longer kills or stops a Secretkeeper.
As someone already said, the 1-damage nerf on Faceless Corruptor will make a bigger difference on turn 5 than you think. There are many strong minions that cannot be cleared on turn 5 by one of the copies.
I will admit the Mogu change is a bit weird, and definitely if it evolves into Colossus of the Moon, but chances of that happening are slim. I think the outcome will be the same: you need to remove the minion it evolves into, but now, you have more turns to gather your own resources to deal with it.
The one thing I will admit is weird, is that they didn't touch Necrium Apothecary. Highroll-cards like this have traditionally been extremely bad for the health of the meta, and it makes for very polarizing matchups. My frist thought was also that Dragon's Pack is still too strong, but then I reminded myself that Shaman will atleast have more trouble invoking in a timely manner.
I think the nerfs might be soft, but it is not Blizzard's intention to completely kill a deck. If you would have it your way, with your proposed nerfs, there would be no more Shaman. That's not the intent of nerfs. The intent is to dial it back a bit, to then give other decks more room to breathe, to then atleast shift the meta a little bit. Yes, Shaman will still be strong. But Warlock is strong, Rogue is strong, Warrior is strong, Mage is strong. These changes will influence the meta, mark my words.
Well to go point-for-point;
1) That was a power play maybe, but far from being the only one. There are other ways to invoke Galakrond, so Dragon's Pack is still viable as ever. That is a card needed a nerf. Not keeping Elementalist in the mulligan is the correct play, at 5 or 6 mana. There is early game in that deck.
2) How many Secretkeepers have you seen causing trouble to shaman. Face Hunter does not play her, there is not such thing as Secret Mage or Secret Paladin. Secret Highlander Hunter is the only deck she *might* see some play. There are no early drops, except Flame Imp that it could kill before but it can't now. Maybe some treants and [card]Card NameSky Raider[/card] or Blazing Battlemage if you ever see any. How threatening are any of these, except Imp, again?
Someone has already written the 10-drops somewhere in this post. They are the late game threats. Only understatted ones are King Phaoris and Big Bad Archmage but the latter is still one of your best bets playing Mogu + Mutate. You get 16 stats on board other than these two immediately. Most of the time, you get something hard to kill at that point, Only one option is really really bad, and one of the options just wins you the game, so they even each other out. This is the difference.
You make some good points, and as someone who likes to actually converse properly on the matter, before jumping to conclusions, I appreciate that.
It's important for me to say that I never thought nerfing Galakrond himself would be the best way, but the consistency in which Shaman was able to invoke, particularly compared to all other classes that have their own Galakrond, was the problem for me. Nerfing an extremely important card like Elementalist is therefor a good call. The added bonus of Shaman being able to play Dragon's Pack later now, is even better.
My example of Secretkeeper was perhaps faulty, but I do rest my case with the fact that Shaman becomes more vulnerable to hyper-aggro decks even more. Pirate Warrior can snowball better now, with the nerf to Slurper. You can make better trades now, which shouldn't be underestimated. However, I'll give you the fact that a nerf to Dragon's Pack instead of Slurper might have been even better, but I'd just be scared that that would completely destroy Shaman on ladder.
As for Mogu, yes, 10 drops are good, but the nerf for me is more vital because of the timing in which they can play Mogu. I said the conclusion is the same before, and I stand by it: whatever Mogu evolves into, whether it'd be an 8 or 10 drop, you need to remove it. Having atleast 1 turn more before you can do, as most strong AoE's take place after turn 5, is going to be important.
As for your remark on Corrupt Elementalist in mulligan or not; the highest WR deck on HSReplay shows a whopping 65% WR when Corrupt Elementalist is in your opening hand. I highly disagree with your statement in that regard.
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Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
Wolves are Epic and Shudder/Quest are legendary. These cards would mean too much dust for the Community.
The F2P plebs never stop begging.
Absolutely no F2P Player here. I would even assume that there is no game I spent more money for than HS. But its obvious that Bli$$ard tries to avoid nerfing epics or legendaries just for the mentioned reason - even if these cards currently have a huge impact on the superiority of the shaman class.
dude, can u tell me what do u want? make it useless? wtf u want for shaman to be killed? its balanced enough already, the dragons pack its not as op as u all cry about, whenever i play that card its taken out ez so why the struggle? i bet all kids that comment are playing default decks, OFC IF U PLAY A SHITTY DECK U WILL LOSE AGAINST A PRO MADE ONE
dude, can u tell me what do u want? make it useless? wtf u want for shaman to be killed? its balanced enough already, the dragons pack its not as op as u all cry about, whenever i play that card its taken out ez so why the struggle? i bet all kids that comment are playing default decks, OFC IF U PLAY A SHITTY DECK U WILL LOSE AGAINST A PRO MADE ONE
We've solved it, people, close the thread. Our problem was that we're playing default decks.
Not that pros, streamers, and the community all recognized how problematic shaman is (alongside hunter and rogue, but they won't get touched for another month at best, imo). Couldn't be that.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I suppose nerfing rares usually brings more dust to the community. I have 9+ of those murlocs and 6 faceless corupptor. That's at least a free legendary for me. It's more like to have a lot of rares then it is to have tons of those epics and usually you only have one legendary.
I just wanna say there will be new cards coming with Adventure, so perhaps they arent taking nerfs as hard. Anyway Sludge didnt really need nerf, Faceless should be 3/4 imo, also Dragon's Pack needs the nerf.
Mogu is almost certainly getting a nerf. TBH I'm surprised it didn't happen before the release given that they basically said they were nerfing it. 9 mana maybe? That way the 8 drop isn't happening on Turn 3 or 4.
I imagine Elementalist is bumped to 6 mana. That way you can't Coin+Elementalist into Dragon's Pack.
I think Faceless Corruptor also receives a mana increase. I wonder if it'll go to 7, like Giggling Inventor.
Wouldn't be surprised if that's all we see happen.
More people should listen to me.
Corrupt Elementalist - nailed it. Mogu - Nailed it Faceless Corruptor - nerfed, but differently
Sludge Slurper trading with 2 drops or clearing totems was absolutely obnoxious. That nerf totally took me by surprise but it's very fair. The increase in power it received for midrange decks due to Draconic Lackey I think has contributed - it felt so wrong to be able to play it t1, Draconic Lackey t2, trade them into your opponent's early game and still have a playable card in hand.
Sludge Slurper trading with 2 drops or clearing totems was absolutely obnoxious. That nerf totally took me by surprise but it's very fair. The increase in power it received for midrange decks due to Draconic Lackey I think has contributed - it felt so wrong to be able to play it t1, Draconic Lackey t2, trade them into your opponent's early game and still have a playable card in hand.
I wonder if Sludge Slurper will even see play now. It's a pretty awful 1 drop to get a 1/1 and overload for 1. Just for a lackey? I'm not sold. As you pointed out, the 2/1 attack allowed it to trade into enemy minions and help maintain board control in the first few turns.
I suspect Galakrond Shaman will need a very different early game to have any hope of being tier 1 now.
You know they were going to avoid Legendary's and Epics like the plague, right? That's way too much potential free dust (this isn't an issue for me personally but I still find it pathetic). Honestly, fuck Team 5, they've proved they are COMPLETELY incompetent so this shouldn't come as any surprise.
Mogu is almost certainly getting a nerf. TBH I'm surprised it didn't happen before the release given that they basically said they were nerfing it. 9 mana maybe? That way the 8 drop isn't happening on Turn 3 or 4.
I imagine Elementalist is bumped to 6 mana. That way you can't Coin+Elementalist into Dragon's Pack.
I think Faceless Corruptor also receives a mana increase. I wonder if it'll go to 7, like Giggling Inventor.
Wouldn't be surprised if that's all we see happen.
More people should listen to me.
Corrupt Elementalist - nailed it. Mogu - Nailed it Faceless Corruptor - nerfed, but differently
Sludge Slurper was a surprise.
why should any1 listen to you you was wrong with 2 nerf and allmost each1 said this 2 will be nerfed...
yep you useing it poorly you looking at 7 days and not the last few days
The w/r kept dropping because (1) it was the most heavily targeted deck in the format and (2) the mirror match (which is a 50%) increased significantly.
Obliterated ? lolno.
Haven't lost one game against glakrond shaman, i feel like its a free win. Just get better
You make some good points, and as someone who likes to actually converse properly on the matter, before jumping to conclusions, I appreciate that.
It's important for me to say that I never thought nerfing Galakrond himself would be the best way, but the consistency in which Shaman was able to invoke, particularly compared to all other classes that have their own Galakrond, was the problem for me. Nerfing an extremely important card like Elementalist is therefor a good call. The added bonus of Shaman being able to play Dragon's Pack later now, is even better.
My example of Secretkeeper was perhaps faulty, but I do rest my case with the fact that Shaman becomes more vulnerable to hyper-aggro decks even more. Pirate Warrior can snowball better now, with the nerf to Slurper. You can make better trades now, which shouldn't be underestimated. However, I'll give you the fact that a nerf to Dragon's Pack instead of Slurper might have been even better, but I'd just be scared that that would completely destroy Shaman on ladder.
As for Mogu, yes, 10 drops are good, but the nerf for me is more vital because of the timing in which they can play Mogu. I said the conclusion is the same before, and I stand by it: whatever Mogu evolves into, whether it'd be an 8 or 10 drop, you need to remove it. Having atleast 1 turn more before you can do, as most strong AoE's take place after turn 5, is going to be important.
As for your remark on Corrupt Elementalist in mulligan or not; the highest WR deck on HSReplay shows a whopping 65% WR when Corrupt Elementalist is in your opening hand. I highly disagree with your statement in that regard.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
Absolutely no F2P Player here. I would even assume that there is no game I spent more money for than HS. But its obvious that Bli$$ard tries to avoid nerfing epics or legendaries just for the mentioned reason - even if these cards currently have a huge impact on the superiority of the shaman class.
Control is like Chess - using your given resources wisely.
Aggro is like Russian Roulette - Hope to topdeck the right card/ hope for the opponent to topdeck the wrong card.
Parallels to the IQ of the players of both games are, of course, coincidental ;)
dude, can u tell me what do u want? make it useless? wtf u want for shaman to be killed? its balanced enough already, the dragons pack its not as op as u all cry about, whenever i play that card its taken out ez so why the struggle? i bet all kids that comment are playing default decks, OFC IF U PLAY A SHITTY DECK U WILL LOSE AGAINST A PRO MADE ONE
We've solved it, people, close the thread. Our problem was that we're playing default decks.
Not that pros, streamers, and the community all recognized how problematic shaman is (alongside hunter and rogue, but they won't get touched for another month at best, imo). Couldn't be that.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
shaman is allrdy on 55% win rate with the nerf its gonna be less then 50%
But on the nerfing epic and legendary topic.
I suppose nerfing rares usually brings more dust to the community. I have 9+ of those murlocs and 6 faceless corupptor. That's at least a free legendary for me. It's more like to have a lot of rares then it is to have tons of those epics and usually you only have one legendary.
i like pie...!!!
doctor of Gaming Love and etc!!!
I just wanna say there will be new cards coming with Adventure, so perhaps they arent taking nerfs as hard. Anyway Sludge didnt really need nerf, Faceless should be 3/4 imo, also Dragon's Pack needs the nerf.
More people should listen to me.
Corrupt Elementalist - nailed it.
Mogu - Nailed it
Faceless Corruptor - nerfed, but differently
Sludge Slurper was a surprise.
That is all shaman decks in all ranks. Rather look up the best ones, they are all 60+ and very popular.
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Sludge Slurper trading with 2 drops or clearing totems was absolutely obnoxious. That nerf totally took me by surprise but it's very fair. The increase in power it received for midrange decks due to Draconic Lackey I think has contributed - it felt so wrong to be able to play it t1, Draconic Lackey t2, trade them into your opponent's early game and still have a playable card in hand.
I wonder if Sludge Slurper will even see play now. It's a pretty awful 1 drop to get a 1/1 and overload for 1. Just for a lackey? I'm not sold. As you pointed out, the 2/1 attack allowed it to trade into enemy minions and help maintain board control in the first few turns.
I suspect Galakrond Shaman will need a very different early game to have any hope of being tier 1 now.
This is a good example of how to use HSReplay poorly.
You know they were going to avoid Legendary's and Epics like the plague, right? That's way too much potential free dust (this isn't an issue for me personally but I still find it pathetic). Honestly, fuck Team 5, they've proved they are COMPLETELY incompetent so this shouldn't come as any surprise.
why should any1 listen to you you was wrong with 2 nerf and allmost each1 said this 2 will be nerfed...
you looking at the past 7 days... the past 3 days its 55%.. stop being free to play and you can see the past 3 days.. even 1 day...
yep you useing it poorly you looking at 7 days and not the last few days
The w/r kept dropping because (1) it was the most heavily targeted deck in the format and (2) the mirror match (which is a 50%) increased significantly.
And it was still at 55%.