Just a fun thread. I give two examples to show you what I mean.
First example is Malorne. As a 7 Mana 9/7 he has above curve stats and the card text is an upside. In vacuum space Malorne is undeniably a good card. But even in the set where it was printed, it was already outclassed in every aspect by the same cost Dr. Boom and thus never played.
An example of a "bad" card that is really good is Arcane Intellect. Now everyone would agree that Arcane Intellect is a good card and it is one of the most played cards of all time. But mathematically, it is 1.5 Mana for each card. There are plenty of cards that draw 1 card for 1 Mana, even with upsides like Power Word: Shield, or tutor cards that draw multiple specific cards for less than 1.5 Mana per card.
Still Arcane Intellect is undeniably a strong card because what it does is so important for so many decks. The same can also be implied to other card draw cards like Novice Engineer, which even was nerfed a long time ago yet is still sometimes played in decks that really want to draw a lot.
Seems when an ability is just really good, like card draw, pricing becomes less important.
I play the Wild Format, but examples of such cases exist in both formats. So please share your examples and let's all learn something about the game together!
AKA "The thread where people are surprised by cards because they initially evaluated them using the most basic guidelines without considering any sort of context or synergy."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I don't think Throggzor is even good in vacuum space. It was a huge misevalutaion back then because people were used that high cost minions are huge threat and require immediate removal from a spell. They all overlooked that he was just so understatted that he could easily be traded without the ability triggering, making him unreliable and that's bad. They all basically read it like he has deathrattle.
Just a fun thread. I give two examples to show you what I mean.
First example is Malorne. As a 7 Mana 9/7 he has above curve stats and the card text is an upside. In vacuum space Malorne is undeniably a good card. But even in the set where it was printed, it was already outclassed in every aspect by the same cost Dr. Boom and thus never played.
What exactly about Malorne is good???
His effect makes it slightly harder to fatigue a Druid.. That's literally the only benefit. Otherwise his stats and costs were always about the same as War Golem. A card often heralded as the worst fucking card in the entire game.
His only usage was being a semi decent body from RNG cards that spawned or drafted Malorne. He's never been a "good" card that's bad. He's always been an utterly trash legendary
I don't think Throggzor is even good in vacuum space. It was a huge misevalutaion back then because people were used that high cost minions are huge threat and require immediate removal from a spell. They all overlooked that he was just so understatted that he could easily be traded without the ability triggering, making him unreliable and that's bad. They all basically read it like he has deathrattle.
There were many of spell heavy decks that he was supposed to fight against and back then trading into a 7 mana 6/6 demanded a lot of resources, he literally saw 0 play because Dr. Boom did what he was supposed to do, but better and with even more utility.
Even throwing a spell to kill him would leave a 3/5 with a dangerous effect behind.
Just a fun thread. I give two examples to show you what I mean.
First example is Malorne. As a 7 Mana 9/7 he has above curve stats and the card text is an upside. In vacuum space Malorne is undeniably a good card. But even in the set where it was printed, it was already outclassed in every aspect by the same cost Dr. Boom and thus never played.
What exactly about Malorne is good???
His effect makes it slightly harder to fatigue a Druid.. That's literally the only benefit. Otherwise his stats and costs were always about the same as War Golem. A card often heralded as the worst fucking card in the entire game.
His only usage was being a semi decent body from RNG cards that spawned or drafted Malorne. He's never been a "good" card that's bad. He's always been an utterly trash legendary
War golem was never considered the worst card in the game by anyone other than you right now. There are much worse cards in the classic/basic set and even worse in other sets.
Also I do play Malorne in my Reno druid deck and he is definitely a "bad good card" not even close to being trash. It's a win condition when my opponent burns my Jade Idols.
I don't think Throggzor is even good in vacuum space. It was a huge misevalutaion back then because people were used that high cost minions are huge threat and require immediate removal from a spell. They all overlooked that he was just so understatted that he could easily be traded without the ability triggering, making him unreliable and that's bad. They all basically read it like he has deathrattle.
There were many of spell heavy decks that he was supposed to fight against and back then trading into a 7 mana 6/6 demanded a lot of resources, he literally saw 0 play because Dr. Boom did what he was supposed to do, but better and with even more utility.
Even throwing a spell to kill him would leave a 3/5 with a dangerous effect behind.
Would a 7 mana 6/6 deathrattle summon a 3/5 be good? Sounds comparable to a Piloted Sky Golem. Is 1 mana for 2 more health but no tribal synergies worth it? I don't think it is. I think people just evaluated this card wrong. Think of the situation this is good in. Your opponent has a lot of spells they want to play, can't afford to wait, can't kill you, has things they need to target besides troggzor, their removal isn't strong enough to kill him in one shot, and doesn't have any aoes that could just kill him and his troggs anyway. Think about what match-up that applies to and tell me if it happens more than 10% of games. If it doesn't, the card is bad plain and simple.
Just a fun thread. I give two examples to show you what I mean.
First example is Malorne. As a 7 Mana 9/7 he has above curve stats and the card text is an upside. In vacuum space Malorne is undeniably a good card. But even in the set where it was printed, it was already outclassed in every aspect by the same cost Dr. Boom and thus never played.
What exactly about Malorne is good???
His effect makes it slightly harder to fatigue a Druid.. That's literally the only benefit. Otherwise his stats and costs were always about the same as War Golem. A card often heralded as the worst fucking card in the entire game.
His only usage was being a semi decent body from RNG cards that spawned or drafted Malorne. He's never been a "good" card that's bad. He's always been an utterly trash legendary
War golem was never considered the worst card in the game by anyone other than you right now. There are much worse cards in the classic/basic set and even worse in other sets.
Also I do play Malorne in my Reno druid deck and he is definitely a "bad good card" not even close to being trash. It's a win condition when my opponent burns my Jade Idols.
War Golem has always been considered the weakest card. Regardless of whether or not you use it in a deck.
Here's a tweet from Ben Brode talking about how he made it to be useless.
An example of a "bad" card that is really good is Arcane Intellect. Now everyone would agree that Arcane Intellect is a good card and it is one of the most played cards of all time. But mathematically, it is 1.5 Mana for each card. There are plenty of cards that draw 1 card for 1 Mana, even with upsides like Power Word: Shield, or tutor cards that draw multiple specific cards for less than 1.5 Mana per card.
What cards draw 1 card for 1 mana, straight up? Power Word: Shield is conditional, as you cannot play it without any minions on board (unless you wan't to grant that upside to your opponent). I can't think of any card draw effects I'd rather have over AI. And even in regard to mana per card drawn, Arcane Intellect combines two draws into one card, which has mana value in its own right.
I can't say there aren't wild cards I am missing here, but of the draw-cards in basic and classic, AI comes out on top mana-value wise against other options like Shield Block, Mortal Coil, Shiv etc. Consider that Nourish was "1.66" mana per draw back when it was mostly used for draw, pre-nerf.
I'd say Arcane Intellect is a good card, not a "bad card that is good".
An example of a "bad" card that is really good is Arcane Intellect. Now everyone would agree that Arcane Intellect is a good card and it is one of the most played cards of all time. But mathematically, it is 1.5 Mana for each card. There are plenty of cards that draw 1 card for 1 Mana, even with upsides like Power Word: Shield, or tutor cards that draw multiple specific cards for less than 1.5 Mana per card.
Still Arcane Intellect is undeniably a strong card because what it does is so important for so many decks. The same can also be implied to other card draw cards like Novice Engineer, which even was nerfed a long time ago yet is still sometimes played in decks that really want to draw a lot.
Card draw is very resistant to power creep, it just makes them they draw better stuff.
Good card that is bad: Gahz'rilla. Potentially game breaking, especially if you can give it charge, but hunter just has no way of reliably taking advantage of the effect.
Bad card that is good: Flying Machine. Finally found its home in very strong and annoying handbuff magnetic paladin decks.
This. Countess Ashmore is so good on paper - targeted, specific draw which gets your combo pieces and thins your deck. Yet it has barely seen play apart from when mech paladin was a thing and even then is wasn't in the most popular builds. Just too slow I guess.
Just a fun thread. I give two examples to show you what I mean.
First example is Malorne. As a 7 Mana 9/7 he has above curve stats and the card text is an upside. In vacuum space Malorne is undeniably a good card. But even in the set where it was printed, it was already outclassed in every aspect by the same cost Dr. Boom and thus never played.
An example of a "bad" card that is really good is Arcane Intellect. Now everyone would agree that Arcane Intellect is a good card and it is one of the most played cards of all time. But mathematically, it is 1.5 Mana for each card. There are plenty of cards that draw 1 card for 1 Mana, even with upsides like Power Word: Shield, or tutor cards that draw multiple specific cards for less than 1.5 Mana per card.
Still Arcane Intellect is undeniably a strong card because what it does is so important for so many decks. The same can also be implied to other card draw cards like Novice Engineer, which even was nerfed a long time ago yet is still sometimes played in decks that really want to draw a lot.
Seems when an ability is just really good, like card draw, pricing becomes less important.
I play the Wild Format, but examples of such cases exist in both formats. So please share your examples and let's all learn something about the game together!
Good card that is bad: Troggzor the Earthinator
Bad card that is good: Rin, the First Disciple
Good card is bad : Dragonbane
Bad card is good : Dragonblight Cultist
AKA "The thread where people are surprised by cards because they initially evaluated them using the most basic guidelines without considering any sort of context or synergy."
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Good card that is bad: Waxadred
Bad card that is good: Devoted Maniac
Yeah sure but OPs title has a better ring to it.
(aka you’re right but that doesn’t make this a bad thread)
I don't think Throggzor is even good in vacuum space. It was a huge misevalutaion back then because people were used that high cost minions are huge threat and require immediate removal from a spell. They all overlooked that he was just so understatted that he could easily be traded without the ability triggering, making him unreliable and that's bad. They all basically read it like he has deathrattle.
If you think Waxadred is bad you haven't played it yet.
A good card that is bad: Countess Ashmore
A bad card that is good: Anubisath Warbringer
What exactly about Malorne is good???
His effect makes it slightly harder to fatigue a Druid.. That's literally the only benefit. Otherwise his stats and costs were always about the same as War Golem. A card often heralded as the worst fucking card in the entire game.
His only usage was being a semi decent body from RNG cards that spawned or drafted Malorne. He's never been a "good" card that's bad. He's always been an utterly trash legendary
There were many of spell heavy decks that he was supposed to fight against and back then trading into a 7 mana 6/6 demanded a lot of resources, he literally saw 0 play because Dr. Boom did what he was supposed to do, but better and with even more utility.
Even throwing a spell to kill him would leave a 3/5 with a dangerous effect behind.
War golem was never considered the worst card in the game by anyone other than you right now. There are much worse cards in the classic/basic set and even worse in other sets.
Also I do play Malorne in my Reno druid deck and he is definitely a "bad good card" not even close to being trash. It's a win condition when my opponent burns my Jade Idols.
Would a 7 mana 6/6 deathrattle summon a 3/5 be good? Sounds comparable to a Piloted Sky Golem. Is 1 mana for 2 more health but no tribal synergies worth it? I don't think it is. I think people just evaluated this card wrong. Think of the situation this is good in. Your opponent has a lot of spells they want to play, can't afford to wait, can't kill you, has things they need to target besides troggzor, their removal isn't strong enough to kill him in one shot, and doesn't have any aoes that could just kill him and his troggs anyway. Think about what match-up that applies to and tell me if it happens more than 10% of games. If it doesn't, the card is bad plain and simple.
Somebody introduce OP to the concept of Synergy.
War Golem has always been considered the weakest card. Regardless of whether or not you use it in a deck.
Here's a tweet from Ben Brode talking about how he made it to be useless.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbrode/status/532325358893150208
Waxadred is absolutely terrible dude, unless you like to play some meme deck
What cards draw 1 card for 1 mana, straight up? Power Word: Shield is conditional, as you cannot play it without any minions on board (unless you wan't to grant that upside to your opponent). I can't think of any card draw effects I'd rather have over AI. And even in regard to mana per card drawn, Arcane Intellect combines two draws into one card, which has mana value in its own right.
I can't say there aren't wild cards I am missing here, but of the draw-cards in basic and classic, AI comes out on top mana-value wise against other options like Shield Block, Mortal Coil, Shiv etc. Consider that Nourish was "1.66" mana per draw back when it was mostly used for draw, pre-nerf.
I'd say Arcane Intellect is a good card, not a "bad card that is good".
Card draw is very resistant to power creep, it just makes them they draw better stuff.
Good card that is bad: Gahz'rilla. Potentially game breaking, especially if you can give it charge, but hunter just has no way of reliably taking advantage of the effect.
Bad card that is good: Flying Machine. Finally found its home in very strong and annoying handbuff magnetic paladin decks.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
This. Countess Ashmore is so good on paper - targeted, specific draw which gets your combo pieces and thins your deck. Yet it has barely seen play apart from when mech paladin was a thing and even then is wasn't in the most popular builds. Just too slow I guess.
There is only my justice now
Good cards are bad Galakrond, Azeroth's End Wut? that was supposed to be the shaman card
Bad cards are also bad Angry Chicken