As far as I know with pitty-timer every 30th cardpack a legendary is guaranteed. So you got what they assure.
For example I got on average every 21. a legendary and every 4th an epic. This time it was pretty good.
The last two expansions it was worse and I got a few less. And I always bought some packs with money.
Thats how it is. It doesn´t depent on how much money you spent in game. Or should Blizz gave the payers a better pitty timer? I don´t think so.
There´s no reason to be offended.
First, the pitty timer is 40 packs not 30. Check your data before you post. Second, Blizzard only guarantees average drop rate for legendaries which is one legendary per 20 packs. There is of course variance to this so it is not guaranteed to get that many legendaries but you can also get more. OP got really below average result and I fully understand why he is triggered. I would be as well if I would pay the price for new AAA game and got one fifth of the content.
They don’t guarantee anything, but the community found out by themselves about that 40 packs pity timer. So much for checking data....
In World of Tanks there is something similar going on atm. You can buy Lootboxes , wich always give you a minimum of value. BUT if you’re really lucky you have the chance to open a Tier 8 Tank ( usually 30-40$) . EVERY Contentcreator/Youtuber tells their viewers to NOT buy those boxes in hope to get a Tank out of it. It’s a good deal in general ,but to aim for a Tank is just pure gambling ( maybe even more than in HS) to buy packs/ bundles in hopes of getting X-amount of Legendarys.
People should only expect the minimum and be happy when they get more. Still... I guess some will always complain, even if they are told what can happen.
Paying with real money is actually a very demotivational experience: you open the same common card like 15 times, and then like "really". After opening 120 packs the experience is absolute "Meh" because each pack you open is 90% duplicates which are like trash/trash/40 dust/trash.
They should implement some additional reward/bonus/gamification to make it enjoyable even if you get all dupes.
and that's why they have to give you for free, 'coz otherwise the game would be uber p2w.
I was primarly going to say that gala was like C'Thun, but if i remember right, C'Thun was included in the set of 135 cards back in Old Gods, so there's this "market/business" difference
I do agree policies on rng packs should be changed. I find it strange, that company is selling "chance" to play a game in a way you want to.
I think it would be fair from blizzard to offer "full product" (zero dust but full set) and I'm really curious how much would their price such product. I know they will never do such a thing (unless forced by changes in law) because of possible customer uproar seeing ridiculous high price. ( I would expect 150E)
Guys in all honesty, don't you find it strange, that for 80 EUR you get 70% of the game ? I don't agree with statements "check other TCG like real MTG", First of all when you buy real MTG pack you are owner of cards, and can sell it for nice amount of money if you please, here even if you pay for virtual card, blizzard still owns them.
Jesus Christ, you are so ungreteful!!! >:( They gave you FIVE legendaries for free this time and even so you are still complaining about silly bad luck. Calm down, dude...
he paid alot of money for these packs but got shit reward. Instead of supporting him you defend this garbage rng in packs.. 👎
You know the odds though, right? You go into knowing full well that you're going to get a minimum of 1 in 40 so even if you go through 400 packs and just get 1 in 40, why complain? You're setting your own expectation that you'll get more and so when your disappointed it's really your own fault.
I personally feel 1 in 40 is a bit harsh and would like to see it dropped but if I buy packs I do so knowing full well what my odds are so I either don't buy them because I don't like the odds or I don't cry about it.
I know when we are all opening packs, we just measure theirs quality with number of legendaries we opened. But actually, you should measure it with how much commons, rares and epics you opened. Its because it sucks to waste dust on this cards most of the times, and you should collect dust for crafting legendaries you actually need and want to play. So what, you got 4 legendaries, are they good, can you play some decks with them you like or not? Why would you want to open 10 legendaries for example, from which 8 sucks and will never see play? And how much dust did you get from extras? I mean, you should watch for a big picture
Not gonna participate in the mudthrowing. Seems a lot of users are lacking in decency or personal class. There is nothing cool about being rude if you have no point.
The people saying it is a gamble are totally right, there is no argument to be had. But the thread is about how it felt to OP which some apparently can’t grasp. I am in a similar boat and I got one point you guys should consider.
while it is a gamble, first and foremost it is a product. This particular product did not live up to OPs expectations, just like with me. He has every right to be disgruntled as long as he does not wrongfully portray or accuse Blizzard of foul play.
It was my first purchase, and it could be my last. The feeling when you see players open more legendaries in significantly fewer packs (some variance is expected due to the nature of packs) is not good. Personally after 1st legendary i’ve gone 3 in 104 packs I believe. That is way too high above 1 in 20 to feel good about and you’d be hard pressed to argue this as well as it being a gamble. Just keep your eye on the ball when you comment
Good answer to OP.
One thing though when you speak about expectations: can you really say 1 legendary in 20 packs is "normal" expectation?
The only guarantee is 1 in 40 and the fact the the average luck player gets 1 in 20 in no way guarantees the result of your pack opening. There is a huge gap between lucky and unlucky players which leads to the first ending up with 4 times as many legendaries and that is quite a lot. A luck gap of 2 would make much more sense from a gamer point of view (not from a gambler point of view) but what are exactely CCG?
Don't they do stand a little in between gaming and gambling, don't they? Then isn't 4 a more logical number?
I'm not a gambler and I would prefer every twentiest pack to hold a legendary (opening a good one seems enough luck for my nerves) but that is not the deal offered by Hearthstone.
I fully understand people leaving the game after unlucky streak but maybe the expectations should rely more on the amount of dust gathered than on the legendaries opened because most times you will end up crafting the legendaries/epics you need to make your deck and the ones you opened might end up covered in webs in your collection...
@Ilyanthiel: Thanks for the reply! To your question about expectation I say yes. The 1 in 20 is enforced by statistics over quite a large sample. Deviating heavily is certainly possible, but it should be uncommon. The statistical distribution I suspect is almost bellshaped with a large tail (as 40. pack is a guarantee if not sooner). Lying within one "standard Deviation" of the mean is like 67 % chance (don't quote me) but it is 95 % for 2 standard deviations and over 99 % for 3. I suspect the chance of going over like 1 in 35 should be below 5 % at minimum. This is also why @Alph2760 is wrong. You don't set your own expectations, you look toward stats just like when Blizzard nerf Shaman due to stats.
If you doubt my reasoning.. well I am pretty sure this variance is why blizzard guarantees you that golden legendary on top so that even if you go below curve you are being tied back up to average.
Another user rightfully pointed out that also other cards in packs matter and the quality. I felt reasonably lucky with epics for example and have gotten 6 in the last 10 packs. But legendaries are the build arounds and the lack of them is hurting the average pack dust value. I'm at 9555 dust for the last 104 packs. Average pack value is close to 100. My average has been just under 92. Doesn't sound too bad but even if I got a legendary in my next pack I would still be below average actually even getting two in my next two packs would not take me above just average. It is with that in mind I feel like OP. And the quality of mine? Well Golden Ancharr (NICE!), then Nithogg in pack 8 (cool art, bad card), Talritha in 22, Mindflayer in 53 and Bandersmosh in 92 (I am at 112. now) So I am counting from pack 8 as the distribution is different there. As you can see all the non goldens are either low tier (mindflayer/Talritha) or not even used in the class better decks (Nithogg/Bandersmosh). I don't hide for a second that that felt bad with quite a large number of decent legendaries to pull.
Edit: I forgot to add that the discussions seem MUCH cleaner now and that is good to see :)
Jesus Christ, you are so ungreteful!!! >:( They gave you FIVE legendaries for free this time and even so you are still complaining about silly bad luck. Calm down, dude...
he paid alot of money for these packs but got shit reward. Instead of supporting him you defend this garbage rng in packs.. 👎
Agree, The packs RNG is extreme and might be rigged as well, it's like a casino.
we pay money to play the game, not to play an unfair slot machine!!
there is zero transparency in packs RNG and It completely destroys the entire game.
As far as I know with pitty-timer every 30th cardpack a legendary is guaranteed. So you got what they assure.
For example I got on average every 21. a legendary and every 4th an epic. This time it was pretty good.
The last two expansions it was worse and I got a few less. And I always bought some packs with money.
Thats how it is. It doesn´t depent on how much money you spent in game. Or should Blizz gave the payers a better pitty timer? I don´t think so.
There´s no reason to be offended.
First, the pitty timer is 40 packs not 30. Check your data before you post. Second, Blizzard only guarantees average drop rate for legendaries which is one legendary per 20 packs. There is of course variance to this so it is not guaranteed to get that many legendaries but you can also get more. OP got really below average result and I fully understand why he is triggered. I would be as well if I would pay the price for new AAA game and got one fifth of the content.
They don’t guarantee anything, but the community found out by themselves about that 40 packs pity timer. So much for checking data....
In World of Tanks there is something similar going on atm. You can buy Lootboxes , wich always give you a minimum of value. BUT if you’re really lucky you have the chance to open a Tier 8 Tank ( usually 30-40$) . EVERY Contentcreator/Youtuber tells their viewers to NOT buy those boxes in hope to get a Tank out of it. It’s a good deal in general ,but to aim for a Tank is just pure gambling ( maybe even more than in HS) to buy packs/ bundles in hopes of getting X-amount of Legendarys.
People should only expect the minimum and be happy when they get more. Still... I guess some will always complain, even if they are told what can happen.
I never stated they guarantee the pity timer. Read thoroughly before reacting. I said they guarantee average drop rate of 1 legendary per 20 packs and that is actually true, since they had to reveal this because of Chinese laws.
Honestly there is no point to be unhappy - it is exactly like throwing your money into a slot machine and then complaining that you didn't win anything. You should had gone to the gambit with this in mind since you were fully aware of that.
With Blizzards patented Rng it is possible to open just 4 legendaries in 169 packs (10, 50, 90, 130).
Unregulated gambling industry that targets children, not as bas as some other games. But using these casino schemes in video games is much less than pathetic
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
Jesus Christ, you are so ungreteful!!! >:( They gave you FIVE legendaries for free this time and even so you are still complaining about silly bad luck. Calm down, dude...
he paid alot of money for these packs but got shit reward. Instead of supporting him you defend this garbage rng in packs.. 👎
Agree, The packs RNG is extreme and might be rigged as well, it's like a casino.
we pay money to play the game, not to play an unfair slot machine!!
there is zero transparency in packs RNG and It completely destroys the entire game.
Do you have any idea what a huge, pointless risk it would be for Blizzard to rig their packs? They would be utterly ruined as a company.
And if you think no one would find out, you are very, very wrong. There are several websites that track millions of packs opened by users. Those statistics don't lie, and so far in the history of Hearthstone, they have uncovered exactly one irregularity. Blizzard agreed it was an error, fixed the bug and apologized -- and gave everyone a bunch of free packs as a show of good faith.
So, knowing they're being watched, do you really think they'd try something like that on purpose?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Jesus Christ, you are so ungreteful!!! >:( They gave you FIVE legendaries for free this time and even so you are still complaining about silly bad luck. Calm down, dude...
he paid alot of money for these packs but got shit reward. Instead of supporting him you defend this garbage rng in packs.. 👎
Agree, The packs RNG is extreme and might be rigged as well, it's like a casino.
we pay money to play the game, not to play an unfair slot machine!!
there is zero transparency in packs RNG and It completely destroys the entire game.
Except there is transparency, you know that the drop rate for legendaries is 5% because they've said so publicly, and you're guaranteed a legendary out of every 40 packs.
Epics are 10% and guaranteed 1 in every 10.
Not exactly hard to understand, and not extreme.
Yugioh has a 1/12 chance of getting their rarest cards, but for many you need 3 copies of it, so on average you need to open 36 packs, much higher than HS' 20.
Magic as well, you need 4 copies at a 1/8 chance.
To have one tier 1 deck in a physical card game right now costs $300-$400. Alternately, you can drop $100 on HS and be able to run multiple current Tier 1 decks in most cases. Sucks that some people have bad luck, but it's a much better system than many other card games.
It blows my mind that some people still support the shady business practise of loot boxes. There is a reason that they are increasingly being targeted by legislation, aimed at restricting or banning them entirely.
One of the main reasons for Hearthstone's commercial success was its business model, founded on enabling (mainly) children to gamble. Five years on and some people are still falling for it.
Jesus Christ, you are so ungreteful!!! >:( They gave you FIVE legendaries for free this time and even so you are still complaining about silly bad luck. Calm down, dude...
he paid alot of money for these packs but got shit reward. Instead of supporting him you defend this garbage rng in packs.. 👎
How is this any worse than RL booster packs?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DJ
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They don’t guarantee anything, but the community found out by themselves about that 40 packs pity timer. So much for checking data....
In World of Tanks there is something similar going on atm. You can buy Lootboxes , wich always give you a minimum of value. BUT if you’re really lucky you have the chance to open a Tier 8 Tank ( usually 30-40$) . EVERY Contentcreator/Youtuber tells their viewers to NOT buy those boxes in hope to get a Tank out of it. It’s a good deal in general ,but to aim for a Tank is just pure gambling ( maybe even more than in HS) to buy packs/ bundles in hopes of getting X-amount of Legendarys.
People should only expect the minimum and be happy when they get more. Still... I guess some will always complain, even if they are told what can happen.
Paying with real money is actually a very demotivational experience: you open the same common card like 15 times, and then like "really". After opening 120 packs the experience is absolute "Meh" because each pack you open is 90% duplicates which are like trash/trash/40 dust/trash.
They should implement some additional reward/bonus/gamification to make it enjoyable even if you get all dupes.
The goal of all life is death.
and that's why they have to give you for free, 'coz otherwise the game would be uber p2w.
I was primarly going to say that gala was like C'Thun, but if i remember right, C'Thun was included in the set of 135 cards back in Old Gods, so there's this "market/business" difference
Follow me, i do some sexy/lewd arts:
IG: @ewil.inside
FB: Ewil Art
DA: ewilinside
I do agree policies on rng packs should be changed. I find it strange, that company is selling "chance" to play a game in a way you want to.
I think it would be fair from blizzard to offer "full product" (zero dust but full set) and I'm really curious how much would their price such product. I know they will never do such a thing (unless forced by changes in law) because of possible customer uproar seeing ridiculous high price. ( I would expect 150E)
Guys in all honesty, don't you find it strange, that for 80 EUR you get 70% of the game ? I don't agree with statements "check other TCG like real MTG", First of all when you buy real MTG pack you are owner of cards, and can sell it for nice amount of money if you please, here even if you pay for virtual card, blizzard still owns them.
You know the odds though, right? You go into knowing full well that you're going to get a minimum of 1 in 40 so even if you go through 400 packs and just get 1 in 40, why complain? You're setting your own expectation that you'll get more and so when your disappointed it's really your own fault.
I personally feel 1 in 40 is a bit harsh and would like to see it dropped but if I buy packs I do so knowing full well what my odds are so I either don't buy them because I don't like the odds or I don't cry about it.
I know when we are all opening packs, we just measure theirs quality with number of legendaries we opened. But actually, you should measure it with how much commons, rares and epics you opened. Its because it sucks to waste dust on this cards most of the times, and you should collect dust for crafting legendaries you actually need and want to play. So what, you got 4 legendaries, are they good, can you play some decks with them you like or not? Why would you want to open 10 legendaries for example, from which 8 sucks and will never see play? And how much dust did you get from extras? I mean, you should watch for a big picture
@Ilyanthiel: Thanks for the reply!
To your question about expectation I say yes. The 1 in 20 is enforced by statistics over quite a large sample. Deviating heavily is certainly possible, but it should be uncommon. The statistical distribution I suspect is almost bellshaped with a large tail (as 40. pack is a guarantee if not sooner). Lying within one "standard Deviation" of the mean is like 67 % chance (don't quote me) but it is 95 % for 2 standard deviations and over 99 % for 3. I suspect the chance of going over like 1 in 35 should be below 5 % at minimum.
This is also why @Alph2760 is wrong. You don't set your own expectations, you look toward stats just like when Blizzard nerf Shaman due to stats.
If you doubt my reasoning.. well I am pretty sure this variance is why blizzard guarantees you that golden legendary on top so that even if you go below curve you are being tied back up to average.
Another user rightfully pointed out that also other cards in packs matter and the quality. I felt reasonably lucky with epics for example and have gotten 6 in the last 10 packs. But legendaries are the build arounds and the lack of them is hurting the average pack dust value.
I'm at 9555 dust for the last 104 packs. Average pack value is close to 100. My average has been just under 92. Doesn't sound too bad but even if I got a legendary in my next pack I would still be below average actually even getting two in my next two packs would not take me above just average. It is with that in mind I feel like OP.
And the quality of mine? Well Golden Ancharr (NICE!), then Nithogg in pack 8 (cool art, bad card), Talritha in 22, Mindflayer in 53 and Bandersmosh in 92 (I am at 112. now) So I am counting from pack 8 as the distribution is different there. As you can see all the non goldens are either low tier (mindflayer/Talritha) or not even used in the class better decks (Nithogg/Bandersmosh).
I don't hide for a second that that felt bad with quite a large number of decent legendaries to pull.
Edit: I forgot to add that the discussions seem MUCH cleaner now and that is good to see :)
pointless thread, can we close it?
Agree, The packs RNG is extreme and might be rigged as well, it's like a casino.
we pay money to play the game, not to play an unfair slot machine!!
there is zero transparency in packs RNG and It completely destroys the entire game.
I never stated they guarantee the pity timer. Read thoroughly before reacting. I said they guarantee average drop rate of 1 legendary per 20 packs and that is actually true, since they had to reveal this because of Chinese laws.
Unregulated gambling industry that targets children, not as bas as some other games. But using these casino schemes in video games is much less than pathetic
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
Do you have any idea what a huge, pointless risk it would be for Blizzard to rig their packs? They would be utterly ruined as a company.
And if you think no one would find out, you are very, very wrong. There are several websites that track millions of packs opened by users. Those statistics don't lie, and so far in the history of Hearthstone, they have uncovered exactly one irregularity. Blizzard agreed it was an error, fixed the bug and apologized -- and gave everyone a bunch of free packs as a show of good faith.
So, knowing they're being watched, do you really think they'd try something like that on purpose?
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Except there is transparency, you know that the drop rate for legendaries is 5% because they've said so publicly, and you're guaranteed a legendary out of every 40 packs.
Epics are 10% and guaranteed 1 in every 10.
Not exactly hard to understand, and not extreme.
Yugioh has a 1/12 chance of getting their rarest cards, but for many you need 3 copies of it, so on average you need to open 36 packs, much higher than HS' 20.
Magic as well, you need 4 copies at a 1/8 chance.
To have one tier 1 deck in a physical card game right now costs $300-$400. Alternately, you can drop $100 on HS and be able to run multiple current Tier 1 decks in most cases. Sucks that some people have bad luck, but it's a much better system than many other card games.
i pity those who think they have to buy packs with money, you really don't have to... at all
It blows my mind that some people still support the shady business practise of loot boxes. There is a reason that they are increasingly being targeted by legislation, aimed at restricting or banning them entirely.
One of the main reasons for Hearthstone's commercial success was its business model, founded on enabling (mainly) children to gamble. Five years on and some people are still falling for it.
Seriously Stop Crying Kid
How is this any worse than RL booster packs?
DJ