No it shouldn’t be given up. I think if blizzard needs the motivation to not give back dust then they’ll simply do more to play test before release. Honestly a lot of these things that need nerds should have simply never been released in their current form. I guess my answer is learn from mistakes and make cleaner releases from the start.
This. How TF did the devs not realise that Galakrond Shaman was busted? They are incompetent.
I came to this game from playing a lot of League of Legends. In that game there are regular patches, often twice a month. They tweek this and that and never quite come to perfection but the change at least keeps it from getting stale and gives the player security that if something gets past testing it will be dealt with in a timely manner. If something is too weak, it will eventually get its day in the sun.
Hearthstone is very opposite to this and it drives me absolutely nuts. This game would be so much better if they adopted Riot's model (and most modern game company's for that matter...)
It's really not that hard. If a card has a in-proportionally high play-rate/win-rate then adjust it a little bit. If it's the other way around then give it a little buff. Really basic stuff. Keep the game fresh by continually working on it. Just spraying 135 new cards at players every few months of which only 20% are playable then nerfing to the ground any that cause uproar is just lazy. It baffles me how you people don't realize how cheated you are right now and would prefer to keep dust refunds versus my theory which would mean being able to play more of your cards.
I'm not sure that's a request Blizzard can meet right now. It appears their testing is already at it's limits based on the current state of the game. More frequent Balance changes would greatly reduce the resources the team can allocate to newer content (what seems to be the main focus right now) and they would fall very behind in terms of keeping up with their recent schedule of released content.
You must remember that there are now many ways to play Hearthstone; whether you constantly shove top tier decks up the Ladder to Legend ranks, try to get lucky in the Arena, or experiment with the new Battlegrounds mode. Keeping everything in check is very taxing and I'm more than certain the team is working as far ahead as possible in trying to create new expansions and adventures (notice how a full year teaser for the expansions has been released since Witchwood).
All this to say, I like the fact you're willing to sacrifice a commodity for the continued health of one of your favorite games, but I have to say that whether players receive dust refunds or not will not affect the frequency of balance changes. I understand where you're coming from in thinking about how much players would have to spend on new packs which would then support the company, but I don't think it's a mater of financial resources of that incremental scale at this point. Unless the game explodes next year and Blizzard can hire a lot of new talent, we're never going to see more frequent changes than we are now.
edit: and based on the recent update to the shop where Wild packs can be purchased for gold, I hope a new ladder mode will be added with sets in between Wild and Standard or a rotating set like Arena is now.
If they are only testing manually, sure, but that means they’re doing it wrong. Blizzard have access to all the server side data. They could easily use an ML approach to achieve optimal balance before release, but they don’t want to spend the resources on it. They would rather just “eyeball it” and then adjust cards based on played match data and feedback. Multi-million dollar dCGs should do a lot better, imo.
I came to this game from playing a lot of League of Legends. In that game there are regular patches, often twice a month. They tweek this and that and never quite come to perfection but the change at least keeps it from getting stale and gives the player security that if something gets past testing it will be dealt with in a timely manner. If something is too weak, it will eventually get its day in the sun.
Hearthstone is very opposite to this and it drives me absolutely nuts. This game would be so much better if they adopted Riot's model (and most modern game company's for that matter...)
It's really not that hard. If a card has a in-proportionally high play-rate/win-rate then adjust it a little bit. If it's the other way around then give it a little buff. Really basic stuff. Keep the game fresh by continually working on it. Just spraying 135 new cards at players every few months of which only 20% are playable then nerfing to the ground any that cause uproar is just lazy. It baffles me how you people don't realize how cheated you are right now and would prefer to keep dust refunds versus my theory which would mean being able to play more of your cards.
Big Picture
You
LoL does not have tertiary costs to adjusting to balance changes. Hearthstone does. Which is why you cannot just go around nerfing things left and right the moment the community gets upset over something, unless actual data supports it or it is an issue that impacts intentional shifts but instead leads to stagnation (like a set release). Dust refunds allow you to pivot and account for tertiary expenses. Unlike League where if a hero shifts, you just move onto the next one. Instead, HS requires you to shift multiple factors that were not adjusted simply because a deck may become invalidated because of specific balance changes.
This could be resolved by simply using buffing mechanisms instead of nerfing mechanisms - to a degree. But at the end of the day you still end up with situations where there is a shift in power dynamics that may be unintended.
The big picture is that the dust refund only resolves the part of balance changes that were actually changed, and not the other cards that suddenly become less playable because of the cards that were adjusted.
It may seem like a simple solution, but I can tell you as a designer, that it is more complex than you suggest it to be.
The fact they don't do *enough balance checks is the reason the game doesn't get bigger I would argue.
I would argue that the game does not get bigger because a lot of players that enjoy the competitive aspect of gaming, are turned off by randomized mechanics and that overall, Hearthstone is not the most engaging content you can watch or produce. It is miles better than something like Magic the Gathering in terms of an entertaining spectacle, but not all that significantly.
I don't think not having to refund dust will get them to nerf things more because there are other reasons not to do it. Wotc uses ban/erratas very sparingly in Magic, and they don't give people anything when they do. That's because bans and nerfs are equivalent to admitting a mistake, and companies hate doing that. It's bad PR. Notice how when Blizzard does nerf things, they use language like "it's a little stronger than we intended," which is usually a gross understatement, or they focus on irrelevant side details like making war axe cost more instead of changing the stats because "we didn't want to confuse players who are used to playing war axe on 2 to kill 3 health minions." If they instead say "this made the game unfun and one dimensional, we really messed up, we're sorry," that looks bad. It reduces the consumer's and the shareholder's faith in the company, which means they give less money. Also, Blizzard in general prefers to wait and see if the meta comes up with an answer before changing something. You can see this in their other games.
I don't think not having to refund dust will get them to nerf things more because there are other reasons not to do it. Wotc uses ban/erratas very sparingly in Magic, and they don't give people anything when they do. That's because bans and nerfs are equivalent to admitting a mistake, and companies hate doing that. It's bad PR. Notice how when Blizzard does nerf things, they use language like "it's a little stronger than we intended," which is usually a gross understatement, or they focus on irrelevant side details like making war axe cost more instead of changing the stats because "we didn't want to confuse players who are used to playing war axe on 2 to kill 3 health minions." If they instead say "this made the game unfun and one dimensional, we really messed up, we're sorry," that looks bad. It reduces the consumer's and the shareholder's faith in the company, which means they give less money. Also, Blizzard in general prefers to wait and see if the meta comes up with an answer before changing something. You can see this in their other games.
When was the last time you played MTG? They are banning cards like mad the last couple of years.
I don't think not having to refund dust will get them to nerf things more because there are other reasons not to do it. Wotc uses ban/erratas very sparingly in Magic, and they don't give people anything when they do. That's because bans and nerfs are equivalent to admitting a mistake, and companies hate doing that. It's bad PR. Notice how when Blizzard does nerf things, they use language like "it's a little stronger than we intended," which is usually a gross understatement, or they focus on irrelevant side details like making war axe cost more instead of changing the stats because "we didn't want to confuse players who are used to playing war axe on 2 to kill 3 health minions." If they instead say "this made the game unfun and one dimensional, we really messed up, we're sorry," that looks bad. It reduces the consumer's and the shareholder's faith in the company, which means they give less money. Also, Blizzard in general prefers to wait and see if the meta comes up with an answer before changing something. You can see this in their other games.
When was the last time you played MTG? They are banning cards like mad the last couple of years.
I'm only going to be counting Bo3 standard, since it's a more fair comparison if we just focus on both game's most prominent format. Blizzard has 2 formats as opposed to 5+ so obviously they have fewer things to monitor and fewer problem cards that arise.
They banned Oko, veil, and once upon a time just recently, field of the dead a little before that, and the set before that was January of 2018. Then they had a 3 in 2017, and several years with no bans before that. Maybe the past few years have been ban happy by magic standards, but relative to Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh that's nothing. Magic has 2-3 "balance patches" per year maximum. We get 3, minimum. That's why I say sparingly. They certainly don't jump on the ban hammer any faster than Blizzard does.
I like how people think piddly amounts of dust is what keeps Blizzard from balancing things more often. Take off the tinfoil hate and realize that balancing this game is like walking razor wire. Sometimes changing something by 1 mana can completely break the game.
I came to this game from playing a lot of League of Legends. In that game there are regular patches, often twice a month. They tweek this and that and never quite come to perfection but the change at least keeps it from getting stale and gives the player security that if something gets past testing it will be dealt with in a timely manner. If something is too weak, it will eventually get its day in the sun.
Hearthstone is very opposite to this and it drives me absolutely nuts. This game would be so much better if they adopted Riot's model (and most modern game company's for that matter...)
It's really not that hard. If a card has a in-proportionally high play-rate/win-rate then adjust it a little bit. If it's the other way around then give it a little buff. Really basic stuff. Keep the game fresh by continually working on it. Just spraying 135 new cards at players every few months of which only 20% are playable then nerfing to the ground any that cause uproar is just lazy. It baffles me how you people don't realize how cheated you are right now and would prefer to keep dust refunds versus my theory which would mean being able to play more of your cards.
Big Picture
You
Dude in hearthstone changing something by 1 health or 1 mana can mean the difference between unplayable and totally busted. Comparing LoL to this is like comparing checkers to chess.
Well, I guess there's nowhere to go short of a 'yuh huh/nuh uh' argument. If every three weeks they changed a few standout problematic or underachieving cards a notch or two I think it would really help the game and would make for extra excitement like when they did the boomsday buffs.
Take the 5/4 copy self dude for example. I think that card would be perfectly fine as a 4/4. Its playrate is through the roof right now in so many different decks that it's clear it isn't just good, it's overtuned. Whatever the patch notes they give it, getting around to changing it would not look bad. It would look good. Think of the new player. It would send the message that this game is more than just awesome, it's responsive.
And Aegis, we've seen plenty of examples through tbe years where 1 stat changes were needed and left behind perfectly good cards (eg Knife Juggler). Stat adjusts are usually better than mana in my opinion (eg Mana Wyrm).
Well, I guess there's nowhere to go short of a 'yuh huh/nuh uh' argument. If every three weeks they changed a few standout problematic or underachieving cards a notch or two I think it would really help the game and would make for extra excitement like when they did the boomsday buffs.
Take the 5/4 copy self dude for example. I think that card would be perfectly fine as a 4/4. Its playrate is through the roof right now in so many different decks that it's clear it isn't just good, it's overtuned. Whatever the patch notes they give it, getting around to changing it would not look bad. It would look good. Think of the new player. It would send the message that this game is more than just awesome, it's responsive.
And Aegis, we've seen plenty of examples through tbe years where 1 stat changes were needed and left behind perfectly good cards (eg Knife Juggler). Stat adjusts are usually better than mana in my opinion (eg Mana Wyrm).
One example out of all of the nerfs that made cards unplayable...yeah good call.
i didn’t say it wasn’t doable, I said it wasn’t easy, there’s a difference. Take quest rogue. When they nerfed the deck the first time it was like tier 3, but nerfing it made druid roflstomp everyone else because quest rogue was the only thing keeping druid back. I don’t know why we’re having this discussion, a balance patch was already announced for next week
I think all of us should at least agree that the power level of a card isn’t really correlated to its rarity. Lots of busted cards are commons. That is blizzard style of making the deck more affordable. While lots of us claim that the game is expensive, I rather blizzard keep the current practice rather than align the rarity of a card with power level, then give us dust refund for all the nerf cards. It is more frustrated and unfair for the majority of paying customers to open unless legendary and epics cards, and give full dust refunds for frequent balance.
Unfortunately the cheaper the deck is, the less incentive for players to buy packs. In a perfect world blizzard will always release perfectly balance expansion. In real life, it is not possible. I have stopped buying packs because I realized that buying Packs doesn’t really help me to play competitively. Blizzard is generous enough. I have stopped buying packs for more than year now and still can craft about 2 competitive decks each meta.
Frequent meta changes are good for the game, even just slowly release new cards or bring back old cards for a period of time.
I think all of us should at least agree that the power level of a card isn’t really correlated to its rarity. Lots of busted cards are commons. That is blizzard style of making the deck more affordable. While lots of us claim that the game is expensive, I rather blizzard keep the current practice rather than align the rarity of a card with power level, then give us dust refund for all the nerf cards. It is more frustrated and unfair for the majority of paying customers to open unless legendary and epics cards, and give full dust refunds for frequent balance.
Unfortunately the cheaper the deck is, the less incentive for players to buy packs. In a perfect world blizzard will always release perfectly balance expansion. In real life, it is not possible. I have stopped buying packs because I realized that buying Packs doesn’t really help me to play competitively. Blizzard is generous enough. I have stopped buying packs for more than year now and still can craft about 2 competitive decks each meta.
Frequent meta changes are good for the game, even just slowly release new cards or bring back old cards for a period of time.
I disagree, there are commons which are busted cards, but legendaries/epics are the cards which make thse cards busted in a deck. Odd/Even decks -> Genn/Baku. Shaman: Quest, Shudder, and so on.
We get it op. U are rich as fuck and dont care about dust. The dust refund policy is already skewed as some expensive cards are rendered useless just cause a rare or common got nerfed. Example leeching poison a common that never gave problems got nerfed and kingsbane a legendary and the true perpetrator remained the same meaning ppl that crafted the weapon only got the common dust back and were left with their thumbs up their asses.
Some ppl are low on dust even those that buy packs and preorder. You craft a couple of legionaries and u are out. Thus dust refunds helps players stay afloat. I have been a free to play for 2 years and i havent spent any dust on cards since mid rise of shadows expansion. Im sitting on 7k dust. Imagine if i crafted legendaries.
Yeah I also feel like the people who spent a lot of money on Hearthstone try to destroy the f2p players. (I'm talking about this forum). I just wanna play Hearthstone and sometimes I spend some moneys on the game, because I play the game and thinks they deserve some money from me. I would say around 30euro a year. I play this game for 4 years. That is 120euro! That is fcking crazy, I don't understand why people preorder every exp. Don't they feel that they are getting scammed? You pay 50 or 80euro! That is a full new game!!! They only make some new cards, not a mew game.
I came to this game from playing a lot of League of Legends. In that game there are regular patches, often twice a month. They tweek this and that and never quite come to perfection but the change at least keeps it from getting stale and gives the player security that if something gets past testing it will be dealt with in a timely manner. If something is too weak, it will eventually get its day in the sun.
Hearthstone is very opposite to this and it drives me absolutely nuts. This game would be so much better if they adopted Riot's model (and most modern game company's for that matter...)
You are overlooking the reasons that frequent balance patches would not be acceptable in Hearthstone. It's a different game than LOL.
And you are totally clueless is you think dust is the reason Blizzard will not do frequent balance patches.
Blizzard doesn't care about you, puny humans. They have admitted cards in wild are beyond broken (Voidcaller) and they simply don't care about average player experience because people will still preorder everything just for "Oh look, twelveth skin on my Warrior!"
Do you really think nerfing shaman will change a lot? There are just broken decks countered by shaman waiting for their time to shine. Give it two weeks and everyone will shout for nerf on mage with 0 mana spells or pirate warrior ... or something else.
I would be totally ok with giving up dust. Magic the gatering also doesn't return money once they ban a card.
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Favourite HS quote? "Did I miss it?" - Doomsayer
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People spend money on the content that is given to them. To take that away warrants a refund of dust regardless of how frequently you patch it.
As long as there is money involved, no: players should receive dust refunds.
This. How TF did the devs not realise that Galakrond Shaman was busted? They are incompetent.
I came to this game from playing a lot of League of Legends. In that game there are regular patches, often twice a month. They tweek this and that and never quite come to perfection but the change at least keeps it from getting stale and gives the player security that if something gets past testing it will be dealt with in a timely manner. If something is too weak, it will eventually get its day in the sun.
Hearthstone is very opposite to this and it drives me absolutely nuts. This game would be so much better if they adopted Riot's model (and most modern game company's for that matter...)
It's really not that hard. If a card has a in-proportionally high play-rate/win-rate then adjust it a little bit. If it's the other way around then give it a little buff. Really basic stuff. Keep the game fresh by continually working on it. Just spraying 135 new cards at players every few months of which only 20% are playable then nerfing to the ground any that cause uproar is just lazy. It baffles me how you people don't realize how cheated you are right now and would prefer to keep dust refunds versus my theory which would mean being able to play more of your cards.
Big Picture
You
I'm not sure that's a request Blizzard can meet right now. It appears their testing is already at it's limits based on the current state of the game. More frequent Balance changes would greatly reduce the resources the team can allocate to newer content (what seems to be the main focus right now) and they would fall very behind in terms of keeping up with their recent schedule of released content.
You must remember that there are now many ways to play Hearthstone; whether you constantly shove top tier decks up the Ladder to Legend ranks, try to get lucky in the Arena, or experiment with the new Battlegrounds mode. Keeping everything in check is very taxing and I'm more than certain the team is working as far ahead as possible in trying to create new expansions and adventures (notice how a full year teaser for the expansions has been released since Witchwood).
All this to say, I like the fact you're willing to sacrifice a commodity for the continued health of one of your favorite games, but I have to say that whether players receive dust refunds or not will not affect the frequency of balance changes. I understand where you're coming from in thinking about how much players would have to spend on new packs which would then support the company, but I don't think it's a mater of financial resources of that incremental scale at this point. Unless the game explodes next year and Blizzard can hire a lot of new talent, we're never going to see more frequent changes than we are now.
edit: and based on the recent update to the shop where Wild packs can be purchased for gold, I hope a new ladder mode will be added with sets in between Wild and Standard or a rotating set like Arena is now.
This space is intentionally blank.
If they are only testing manually, sure, but that means they’re doing it wrong. Blizzard have access to all the server side data. They could easily use an ML approach to achieve optimal balance before release, but they don’t want to spend the resources on it. They would rather just “eyeball it” and then adjust cards based on played match data and feedback. Multi-million dollar dCGs should do a lot better, imo.
The fact they don't do *enough balance checks is the reason the game doesn't get bigger I would argue.
LoL does not have tertiary costs to adjusting to balance changes. Hearthstone does. Which is why you cannot just go around nerfing things left and right the moment the community gets upset over something, unless actual data supports it or it is an issue that impacts intentional shifts but instead leads to stagnation (like a set release). Dust refunds allow you to pivot and account for tertiary expenses. Unlike League where if a hero shifts, you just move onto the next one. Instead, HS requires you to shift multiple factors that were not adjusted simply because a deck may become invalidated because of specific balance changes.
This could be resolved by simply using buffing mechanisms instead of nerfing mechanisms - to a degree. But at the end of the day you still end up with situations where there is a shift in power dynamics that may be unintended.
The big picture is that the dust refund only resolves the part of balance changes that were actually changed, and not the other cards that suddenly become less playable because of the cards that were adjusted.
It may seem like a simple solution, but I can tell you as a designer, that it is more complex than you suggest it to be.
I would argue that the game does not get bigger because a lot of players that enjoy the competitive aspect of gaming, are turned off by randomized mechanics and that overall, Hearthstone is not the most engaging content you can watch or produce. It is miles better than something like Magic the Gathering in terms of an entertaining spectacle, but not all that significantly.
I don't think not having to refund dust will get them to nerf things more because there are other reasons not to do it. Wotc uses ban/erratas very sparingly in Magic, and they don't give people anything when they do. That's because bans and nerfs are equivalent to admitting a mistake, and companies hate doing that. It's bad PR. Notice how when Blizzard does nerf things, they use language like "it's a little stronger than we intended," which is usually a gross understatement, or they focus on irrelevant side details like making war axe cost more instead of changing the stats because "we didn't want to confuse players who are used to playing war axe on 2 to kill 3 health minions." If they instead say "this made the game unfun and one dimensional, we really messed up, we're sorry," that looks bad. It reduces the consumer's and the shareholder's faith in the company, which means they give less money. Also, Blizzard in general prefers to wait and see if the meta comes up with an answer before changing something. You can see this in their other games.
When was the last time you played MTG? They are banning cards like mad the last couple of years.
I'm only going to be counting Bo3 standard, since it's a more fair comparison if we just focus on both game's most prominent format. Blizzard has 2 formats as opposed to 5+ so obviously they have fewer things to monitor and fewer problem cards that arise.
They banned Oko, veil, and once upon a time just recently, field of the dead a little before that, and the set before that was January of 2018. Then they had a 3 in 2017, and several years with no bans before that. Maybe the past few years have been ban happy by magic standards, but relative to Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh that's nothing. Magic has 2-3 "balance patches" per year maximum. We get 3, minimum. That's why I say sparingly. They certainly don't jump on the ban hammer any faster than Blizzard does.
I like how people think piddly amounts of dust is what keeps Blizzard from balancing things more often. Take off the tinfoil hate and realize that balancing this game is like walking razor wire. Sometimes changing something by 1 mana can completely break the game.
Dude in hearthstone changing something by 1 health or 1 mana can mean the difference between unplayable and totally busted. Comparing LoL to this is like comparing checkers to chess.
Well, I guess there's nowhere to go short of a 'yuh huh/nuh uh' argument. If every three weeks they changed a few standout problematic or underachieving cards a notch or two I think it would really help the game and would make for extra excitement like when they did the boomsday buffs.
Take the 5/4 copy self dude for example. I think that card would be perfectly fine as a 4/4. Its playrate is through the roof right now in so many different decks that it's clear it isn't just good, it's overtuned. Whatever the patch notes they give it, getting around to changing it would not look bad. It would look good. Think of the new player. It would send the message that this game is more than just awesome, it's responsive.
And Aegis, we've seen plenty of examples through tbe years where 1 stat changes were needed and left behind perfectly good cards (eg Knife Juggler). Stat adjusts are usually better than mana in my opinion (eg Mana Wyrm).
One example out of all of the nerfs that made cards unplayable...yeah good call.
i didn’t say it wasn’t doable, I said it wasn’t easy, there’s a difference. Take quest rogue. When they nerfed the deck the first time it was like tier 3, but nerfing it made druid roflstomp everyone else because quest rogue was the only thing keeping druid back. I don’t know why we’re having this discussion, a balance patch was already announced for next week
I think all of us should at least agree that the power level of a card isn’t really correlated to its rarity. Lots of busted cards are commons. That is blizzard style of making the deck more affordable. While lots of us claim that the game is expensive, I rather blizzard keep the current practice rather than align the rarity of a card with power level, then give us dust refund for all the nerf cards. It is more frustrated and unfair for the majority of paying customers to open unless legendary and epics cards, and give full dust refunds for frequent balance.
Unfortunately the cheaper the deck is, the less incentive for players to buy packs. In a perfect world blizzard will always release perfectly balance expansion. In real life, it is not possible. I have stopped buying packs because I realized that buying Packs doesn’t really help me to play competitively. Blizzard is generous enough. I have stopped buying packs for more than year now and still can craft about 2 competitive decks each meta.
Frequent meta changes are good for the game, even just slowly release new cards or bring back old cards for a period of time.
I disagree, there are commons which are busted cards, but legendaries/epics are the cards which make thse cards busted in a deck. Odd/Even decks -> Genn/Baku. Shaman: Quest, Shudder, and so on.
We get it op. U are rich as fuck and dont care about dust. The dust refund policy is already skewed as some expensive cards are rendered useless just cause a rare or common got nerfed. Example leeching poison a common that never gave problems got nerfed and kingsbane a legendary and the true perpetrator remained the same meaning ppl that crafted the weapon only got the common dust back and were left with their thumbs up their asses.
Some ppl are low on dust even those that buy packs and preorder. You craft a couple of legionaries and u are out. Thus dust refunds helps players stay afloat. I have been a free to play for 2 years and i havent spent any dust on cards since mid rise of shadows expansion. Im sitting on 7k dust. Imagine if i crafted legendaries.
Yeah I also feel like the people who spent a lot of money on Hearthstone try to destroy the f2p players. (I'm talking about this forum). I just wanna play Hearthstone and sometimes I spend some moneys on the game, because I play the game and thinks they deserve some money from me. I would say around 30euro a year. I play this game for 4 years. That is 120euro! That is fcking crazy, I don't understand why people preorder every exp. Don't they feel that they are getting scammed? You pay 50 or 80euro! That is a full new game!!! They only make some new cards, not a mew game.
You are overlooking the reasons that frequent balance patches would not be acceptable in Hearthstone. It's a different game than LOL.
And you are totally clueless is you think dust is the reason Blizzard will not do frequent balance patches.
Blizzard doesn't care about you, puny humans. They have admitted cards in wild are beyond broken (Voidcaller) and they simply don't care about average player experience because people will still preorder everything just for "Oh look, twelveth skin on my Warrior!"
Do you really think nerfing shaman will change a lot? There are just broken decks countered by shaman waiting for their time to shine. Give it two weeks and everyone will shout for nerf on mage with 0 mana spells or pirate warrior ... or something else.
I would be totally ok with giving up dust. Magic the gatering also doesn't return money once they ban a card.
Favourite HS quote?
"Did I miss it?" - Doomsayer