So at this point the game has been out for about half a decade, there have been 17 expansions (adventures & sets) released, and we currently have 8 sets that are viable in the standard gameplay format.
But at this point, there are a number of factors which I think make the basic and classic set have a number of issues.
1) The Legendary Pool. There are a lot of cards and effects that rely on the power of the legendary pool, and there are a lot of really out of date, very weak legendaries from the classic set. In addition, the balance between class legendaries is very skewed. Antonidas, Tirion, Van Cleef, all have generally strong, general purpose power in a wide variety of decks. While Al'akir, Cenarius and King Krush are far more situational.
2) Lack of newer "evergreen" mechanics. Rush in particular is a good mechanic that would help to bring a lot of cards into balance.
3) The lack of balance between the basic & classic sets of the classes. Mage has a really generally very powerful core set, where the cards are reasonably balanced and fit into a number of different decks. While the priest set... is trash.
4) Snowball cards are kind of a problem. Snowball cards are fine in the sets that rotate, but I think the classic & basic set should mostly be composed of "fair cards".
5) A lot of the core archetypes (healing, discard in warlock, overload) don't really work. They're undertuned, weak, and sometimes just detrimental. I think it's possible to bring in some of the newer cards and fix these issues in a big way.
Blizzard has slowly been trying to fix this over time, mostly by sending certain problem cards to the hall of fame and replacing them with absolute garbage. But I think with the upcoming end of the year rotation they have an opportunity to make larger, more sweeping changes all at once. So to fix these issues I think there's a few easy solutions.
A) Graduate a lot of the cards from the basic and classic set to the Hall of Fame, and begin selling "Hall of Fame" packs.
B) Introduce a new series of cards, combining cards from sets that have rotated, new cards and retaining working cards from the existing classic & basic set.
Now, I'm not sure about how players would be compensated for this type of rotation. If players would just get dust for all of the rotated cards, or if there would maybe just be a flat amount of dust granted to players for the rotation in general.
I've made an (unfinished) list of cards that I think would be interesting, and if people are interested I'll share it!
NO Just live the classic set alone! It has been nerfed to dust lately! Let me f*ing finish the classic set already after all these years, and stop adding new crap to it! i want that 100 gold achievement for the god's sake!!!
NO Just live the classic set alone! It has been nerfed to dust lately! Let me f*ing finish the classic set already after all these years, and stop adding new crap to it! i want that 100 gold achievement for the god's sake!!!
I would tweak it tbh. Its important classic/basic is reasonably balanced so that the devs have adequate design space to bring in impactful and fun expansion cards. Priest and Rogue have suffered for Classic-set-restriction-itus in Divine Spirit / Inner Fire / Prep respectively and there are problems elsewhere. We recently saw Prep nerfed and it seems to have given devs more space to create balanced rogue spells. I don't think changes should be massive however.
At least Priest needs some buffs in their Classic set. They have the worst set, yet they only got nerfed and now see where Priest is at. A measly 37% winrate. And why? Because the new set was not good for priest and the basic set just plain sucks, except for divine spirit and inner fire. But I hope all others are just as tired of that combo as I am.
NO Just live the classic set alone! It has been nerfed to dust lately! Let me f*ing finish the classic set already after all these years, and stop adding new crap to it! i want that 100 gold achievement for the god's sake!!!
...okay, but beyond wanting an achievement, do you LIKE the design of the classic & basic set? And while Blizzard has been nerfing the cards from classic but they don't have to do it that way. I mean I'm specifically suggesting they make some pretty sweeping changes.
Though I think the classic set should be easier to collect than the annual sets. Probably half the dust/gold/money cost. (But half the return on disenchanting and such) This gives newer players a sense of accomplishment from collecting, while helping with the cost of buying 3 sets a year.
I would tweak it tbh. Its important classic/basic is reasonably balanced so that the devs have adequate design space to bring in impactful and fun expansion cards. Priest and Rogue have suffered for Classic-set-restriction-itus in Divine Spirit / Inner Fire / Prep respectively and there are problems elsewhere. We recently saw Prep nerfed and it seems to have given devs more space to create balanced rogue spells. I don't think changes should be massive however.
I just think there are a lot of design issues. Divine Spirit is definitely a problem; Inner Fire in of itself isn't that big an issue, just Priest's ability to raise a mid-health minion to be a 20+ health minion in a single turn thanks to Divine Spirit.
Shaman, Warlock and Priest's basic/classic set is just so, so weak. And they keep basically nerfing it when they add new cards.
I'd do more than revamp the evergreen cards. I'd completely redesign a class or two. I hope those are the "big changes" Blizz has hinted at for next year.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I'd do more than revamp the evergreen cards. I'd completely redesign a class or two. I hope those are the "big changes" Blizz has hinted at for next year.
It might be a new, rotating set with old cards. Kindda goes hand in hand with them allowing us to buy wild packs with gold.
I'd do more than revamp the evergreen cards. I'd completely redesign a class or two. I hope those are the "big changes" Blizz has hinted at for next year.
That's more or less what I meant, though. A lot of the RNG effects are in basic & classic too.
For example, here's some concepts for I wrote up for the druid class. (I've done a whole document with almost every class and most of the tribal cards, but I'm not sure how to safely share it).
For one thing, like modern sets, the classic set should probably have two legendaries (likely for two different styles of decks).
So at this point the game has been out for about half a decade, there have been 17 expansions (adventures & sets) released, and we currently have 8 sets that are viable in the standard gameplay format.
But at this point, there are a number of factors which I think make the basic and classic set have a number of issues.
1) The Legendary Pool. There are a lot of cards and effects that rely on the power of the legendary pool, and there are a lot of really out of date, very weak legendaries from the classic set. In addition, the balance between class legendaries is very skewed. Antonidas, Tirion, Van Cleef, all have generally strong, general purpose power in a wide variety of decks. While Al'akir, Cenarius and King Krush are far more situational.
2) Lack of newer "evergreen" mechanics. Rush in particular is a good mechanic that would help to bring a lot of cards into balance.
3) The lack of balance between the basic & classic sets of the classes. Mage has a really generally very powerful core set, where the cards are reasonably balanced and fit into a number of different decks. While the priest set... is trash.
4) Snowball cards are kind of a problem. Snowball cards are fine in the sets that rotate, but I think the classic & basic set should mostly be composed of "fair cards".
5) A lot of the core archetypes (healing, discard in warlock, overload) don't really work. They're undertuned, weak, and sometimes just detrimental. I think it's possible to bring in some of the newer cards and fix these issues in a big way.
Blizzard has slowly been trying to fix this over time, mostly by sending certain problem cards to the hall of fame and replacing them with absolute garbage. But I think with the upcoming end of the year rotation they have an opportunity to make larger, more sweeping changes all at once. So to fix these issues I think there's a few easy solutions.
A) Graduate a lot of the cards from the basic and classic set to the Hall of Fame, and begin selling "Hall of Fame" packs.
B) Introduce a new series of cards, combining cards from sets that have rotated, new cards and retaining working cards from the existing classic & basic set.
Now, I'm not sure about how players would be compensated for this type of rotation. If players would just get dust for all of the rotated cards, or if there would maybe just be a flat amount of dust granted to players for the rotation in general.
I've made an (unfinished) list of cards that I think would be interesting, and if people are interested I'll share it!
NO
Just live the classic set alone! It has been nerfed to dust lately!
Let me f*ing finish the classic set already after all these years, and stop adding new crap to it!
i want that 100 gold achievement for the god's sake!!!
Same.
I would tweak it tbh. Its important classic/basic is reasonably balanced so that the devs have adequate design space to bring in impactful and fun expansion cards. Priest and Rogue have suffered for Classic-set-restriction-itus in Divine Spirit / Inner Fire / Prep respectively and there are problems elsewhere. We recently saw Prep nerfed and it seems to have given devs more space to create balanced rogue spells. I don't think changes should be massive however.
At least Priest needs some buffs in their Classic set. They have the worst set, yet they only got nerfed and now see where Priest is at.
A measly 37% winrate. And why? Because the new set was not good for priest and the basic set just plain sucks, except for divine spirit and inner fire. But I hope all others are just as tired of that combo as I am.
Priest needs a revamp.
...okay, but beyond wanting an achievement, do you LIKE the design of the classic & basic set? And while Blizzard has been nerfing the cards from classic but they don't have to do it that way. I mean I'm specifically suggesting they make some pretty sweeping changes.
Though I think the classic set should be easier to collect than the annual sets. Probably half the dust/gold/money cost. (But half the return on disenchanting and such) This gives newer players a sense of accomplishment from collecting, while helping with the cost of buying 3 sets a year.
I just think there are a lot of design issues. Divine Spirit is definitely a problem; Inner Fire in of itself isn't that big an issue, just Priest's ability to raise a mid-health minion to be a 20+ health minion in a single turn thanks to Divine Spirit.
Shaman, Warlock and Priest's basic/classic set is just so, so weak. And they keep basically nerfing it when they add new cards.
I'd do more than revamp the evergreen cards. I'd completely redesign a class or two. I hope those are the "big changes" Blizz has hinted at for next year.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
It might be a new, rotating set with old cards. Kindda goes hand in hand with them allowing us to buy wild packs with gold.
That's more or less what I meant, though. A lot of the RNG effects are in basic & classic too.
For example, here's some concepts for I wrote up for the druid class. (I've done a whole document with almost every class and most of the tribal cards, but I'm not sure how to safely share it).
For one thing, like modern sets, the classic set should probably have two legendaries (likely for two different styles of decks).