OP, I agree with you. This expansion has been a massive disappointment imo, and it sucks as I had very high hopes for it. Nerfing an entire class a week in is pretty brutal imo and indicates some serious issues with testing / development.
Which testing? 😂😂 I don‘t think they do lots of testing to be honest. There is so much obvious stuff like crashes which can just not be overseen if u try to test at least once.
Never in the history of HS have I hated an expansion, never. Never have I hated a meta that was unfair or even annoying, but the amount of decks that are aggravating beyond belief and make me lose my fun after so many years is staggering.
I am this close to uninstall this game for good and never return.
Peace out
Do you remember Naxx lajnch? Do you remember Secret Pally? Do you remeber Shamanstone 1.0 or Cubelock? We had this for months and now they react in a week? Do you remember the "we don't fix cards in the first 3 months...
The first couple of days after an expansion launches are supposed to be the most fun, nothing settled, experimenting your heart out. Maybe a deck is clearly good from the start but then you have fun trying the counter and then that gets popular too, rinse repeat.
that’s just not the case here. I quit hs quite soon after uldum, picked it up again when n’zoth and then quit soon after. Not because I didn’t like hs, but because it takes up too much of time that I want to spend on other things. Uldum is actually the most fun I ever had in HS for the period I played it. willing to pay for that even if I only play for three weekends after launch.
this expansion didn’t appeal to me. No fun new archetype seemed to emerge. Every class a dragon deck? Seems kind of boring, no? Revisiting handlock, pirate warrior and other old archetypes? Why? Galakrond did kind of interest me but there was not enough to preorder.
However I did have some gold and had to get to 30 packs for battlegrounds anyway, so I gave some decks a go. But after 4 shamans in a row I was already gone.
If a clearly op deck emerges so quickly, you are going to lose players. ESPECIALLY those who will potentially pay because they need more cards to be able to experiment or those wo don’t play year round. I don’t know how much I will play after nerfs, but this early nerf is definitely the right (business) move.
The Hearthpwn community makes up about .00001% of them.
I'm sorry that some of you feel this expansion "sucks", "is too powerful", etc. My experience is that I am having a hell of a good time trying Dragonbane hunter, Shu'ma quest hunter, Galkrond shaman, Galakrond rogue, pirate warrior, treeant druid, and a few others. This meta is just a few days old. This bitching and moaning about things happens after every expansion comes out. The early powerhouses will subside as decks are refined. Keep calm, play on, and most importantly have fun. It's a game. If you aren't having fun, take a step back from it.
You are aware of the nerf announcement, are you? Maybe, just maybe, sometimes the bitching is justified. I rarely bitch (last two times were sn1p sn4p and shudder), but to be honest experimentation was NEVER as little fun as in this expansion.
I am, and that's fine. Some tweaks here and there are probably needed. This doom and gloom shit, however, is tired. The game is fine. The developers make mistakes sometimes. It happens. It doesn't mean the sky is falling. Your experience with experimentation being stifled is subjective, just like mine of enjoying things right now is subjective. My point is that out of 100 million players, the infintesimaly small amount of them represented here is not an accurate representation of the player base, and by and large it seems players are happy. Check out Reddit and other avenues for HS discussion to see what I mean. Hearthpwn is a unique community in that, overall, we are fairly whiney.
I agree with most of your points and they are well expressed. this community is sometimes having a hard time to get the complaints right. If most of the players are happy, that is also fine. Still, I feel lile expressing frustations is good feedback.
Personally, I had a shitty experience. Build 12 decks and ran into 25 / 30 shamans (7 in a row) and I went back to battlegrounds, because it was just not much fun tbh. Hope I have another shot next week.
All this^ I'm doing my best to enjoy the ladder matches and sometimes I do (win or lose) but shaman is strangling the joy out of experimentation for me. Even when I caved last night and ran shaman, it was not fun to play. Every other match was a mirror. The nerfs are unquestionably needed, but it's not "SHAMAN IS TIER S" like a lot of people on here are saying. It has counters, it's just that those counters are not what everyone wants to play (control dragon mage and OTK pally are wrecking shaman, btw).
Rough meta game will get better after the patch. Then we can all find another thing to complain about!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Blizzard has proven time after time, especially during the last couple of years, that they dislike archetypes that have more than 55% win ratio in standard. Thus, they will soon make whatever changes are need to reach this status.
As a set I think this expansion is pretty great. But, Shaman is a big issue and is ruining most of the fun for a lot of players, myself included. I’m not one to call for nerfs especially less than a week after an expansion releases but something has to be done about Shaman. There are loads of pretty interesting decks to try but the Shaman archetypes just steamroll almost anything you throw at them. I’ve managed to pick up a few wins against Shaman with Enbiggen Dragon Druid and Reno Mage but I needed to high roll big time. Almost every Shaman archetype is so much stronger than anything else at this point and it really does get frustrating when it seems like more than 80% of the people I queue into are playing Shaman. You kinda feel like ‘what’s the point really?’ when you know you’re just gonna get thrashed.
The first week has not been as enjoyable as I’d hoped it would be and Shaman is the main reason for that. It’s just too much stronger than anything else. They can nerf that Faceless Corruptor crap as well. How that made it thru play testing is beyond me. It was clear after one game that that card was too powerful.
Anyway, let’s hope for a little more diverse and ‘balanced’ meta once the changes come into effect.
I'm not sure paladin got nothing strong. Just nothing big.
I think the pure paladin deck has some legs as an effective rush deck that can keep itself fueled for longer than most rush decks. But if this isn't a paladin deck you want to run, you may have hit a snag.
Weirdly enough, I thought we were going to get big paladin as a thing this time round after nozdormu was announced, but instead it seems to be slotting in as a big late game tempo card for a more aggro styled deck. Most decks have a bit of problems dealing with a turn 8 double nozdormu if you generate 1 off of crusader turn 7. Just hope galakrond shaman hasn't done all it's set up by that point.
Never in the history of HS have I hated an expansion, never. Never have I hated a meta that was unfair or even annoying, but the amount of decks that are aggravating beyond belief and make me lose my fun after so many years is staggering.
I am this close to uninstall this game for good and never return.
Peace out
Do you remember Naxx lajnch? Do you remember Secret Pally? Do you remeber Shamanstone 1.0 or Cubelock? We had this for months and now they react in a week? Do you remember the "we don't fix cards in the first 3 months...
This is a lot better
I remember some of those days. I even played a bit of cubelock myself. Nothing will beat the pain that was pre nerf undertaker snowballing. Still sends shivers down my spine.
The golden age of Hearthstone is firmly in the rearview mirror. Meaningful experimentation is over. Finding interesting interactions and strategies is over. Everyone knew exactly what would be OP as soon as they released the cards and any attempt to homebrew against the established power curve is hilariously pointless.
The game is too swingy and they seem unable to playtest their own game before releasing it. I've been here since beta and have watched misstep after misstep with Hearthstone.
Remember when academic espionage rogue was almost viable? Probably one of the healthier metas but even then Odd Pally made too many matches an oppressive slog. There was still room to try things though.
I really feel that the lackeys were a mistake. 1 mana 1/1's with ridiculous effects that combo off tons of other things makes the game a race to lethal instead of an interesting strategy of counterplay.
But if we want to talk about the design issues for a moment look at Corrupt the Waters and the Druid quest, Untapped Potential (one of the stronger quests).
With the Druid quest, you have to have mana unspent for 4 turns. This is an actual sacrifice. You are losing tempo for 4 crucial turns to get a strong effect for the rest of the game as a reward. The strong effect is that the choose one cards are combined. It's a good quest and well designed. It doesn't automatically steamroll opponents but is a strong effect that is worth the sacrifice of tempo loss in decks that design around it.
Now, look at Corrupt the Waters. Play 6 Battlecry minions and for the rest of the game, you can spend 2 mana to double all battlecries.
Now on the surface, this looks like it has some disadvantages to the Druid quest. Firstly 6 minions vs 4 turns. Well, we all know that with lackey generation and the fact that you WANT to be playing Battlecry cards anyway this is no hindrance and the quest can often be finished by turn 4 anyway without any of the tempo loss. The requirements are much better than the Druid quest.
So the reward is clearly better than the choose one combined effect so you have to spend 2 mana each turn activating the effect as opposed to the Druid quest that remains passive.
You can see the logic behind how they attempted to balance it but it shows how badly thought out their balancing actually is. It simply doesn't take in to account how easy it is to spend 2 mana a turn with the sheer amount of strong Battlecrys attached to cheap bodies in the game.
OK, so it's a bit of a screw-up so you expect them to not make the same mistake twice...
Nope. They don't just ignore the issue they actively decide what it really needs is to be buffed with even more ridiculous Battlecry cards that make it even stronger.
How is this stupidity getting through playtesting? It's not feasible for a competent team.
If you are still not convinced imagine you had seen all the cards for DoD on the Custom Hearthstone subreddit. What would have been your honest reaction to most of them?
I'm not sure paladin got nothing strong. Just nothing big.
I think the pure paladin deck has some legs as an effective rush deck that can keep itself fueled for longer than most rush decks. But if this isn't a paladin deck you want to run, you may have hit a snag.
Weirdly enough, I thought we were going to get big paladin as a thing this time round after nozdormu was announced, but instead it seems to be slotting in as a big late game tempo card for a more aggro styled deck. Most decks have a bit of problems dealing with a turn 8 double nozdormu if you generate 1 off of crusader turn 7. Just hope galakrond shaman hasn't done all it's set up by that point.
I've been doing okay with Pure Pally. Despite its random nature, Lightforged Crusader is a surprisingly strong card.
This is the quite the quick nerf bat hammering down. You can spin it two ways I guess. Perhaps they are just being more proactive and responding quicker. Or perhaps they realize the poor state of the meta they created with an OP set introduced and lack of said playtesting.
Which testing? 😂😂 I don‘t think they do lots of testing to be honest. There is so much obvious stuff like crashes which can just not be overseen if u try to test at least once.
"Look at me, guys. Pay attention to me, guys!"
Do you remember Naxx lajnch? Do you remember Secret Pally? Do you remeber Shamanstone 1.0 or Cubelock? We had this for months and now they react in a week? Do you remember the "we don't fix cards in the first 3 months...
This is a lot better
The first couple of days after an expansion launches are supposed to be the most fun, nothing settled, experimenting your heart out. Maybe a deck is clearly good from the start but then you have fun trying the counter and then that gets popular too, rinse repeat.
that’s just not the case here. I quit hs quite soon after uldum, picked it up again when n’zoth and then quit soon after. Not because I didn’t like hs, but because it takes up too much of time that I want to spend on other things. Uldum is actually the most fun I ever had in HS for the period I played it. willing to pay for that even if I only play for three weekends after launch.
this expansion didn’t appeal to me. No fun new archetype seemed to emerge. Every class a dragon deck? Seems kind of boring, no? Revisiting handlock, pirate warrior and other old archetypes? Why? Galakrond did kind of interest me but there was not enough to preorder.
However I did have some gold and had to get to 30 packs for battlegrounds anyway, so I gave some decks a go. But after 4 shamans in a row I was already gone.
If a clearly op deck emerges so quickly, you are going to lose players. ESPECIALLY those who will potentially pay because they need more cards to be able to experiment or those wo don’t play year round. I don’t know how much I will play after nerfs, but this early nerf is definitely the right (business) move.
All this^
I'm doing my best to enjoy the ladder matches and sometimes I do (win or lose) but shaman is strangling the joy out of experimentation for me. Even when I caved last night and ran shaman, it was not fun to play. Every other match was a mirror. The nerfs are unquestionably needed, but it's not "SHAMAN IS TIER S" like a lot of people on here are saying. It has counters, it's just that those counters are not what everyone wants to play (control dragon mage and OTK pally are wrecking shaman, btw).
Rough meta game will get better after the patch. Then we can all find another thing to complain about!
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
AHAHAHAHA APPARENTLY CLASSES WÄ°THOUT GALAKRONDS DO NOT EVEN EXÄ°ST
Jaina doesn't agree. Highlander mage feasts on those pesky shaman.
Ha ha ha ha...good one.
As a set I think this expansion is pretty great. But, Shaman is a big issue and is ruining most of the fun for a lot of players, myself included. I’m not one to call for nerfs especially less than a week after an expansion releases but something has to be done about Shaman. There are loads of pretty interesting decks to try but the Shaman archetypes just steamroll almost anything you throw at them. I’ve managed to pick up a few wins against Shaman with Enbiggen Dragon Druid and Reno Mage but I needed to high roll big time. Almost every Shaman archetype is so much stronger than anything else at this point and it really does get frustrating when it seems like more than 80% of the people I queue into are playing Shaman. You kinda feel like ‘what’s the point really?’ when you know you’re just gonna get thrashed.
The first week has not been as enjoyable as I’d hoped it would be and Shaman is the main reason for that. It’s just too much stronger than anything else. They can nerf that Faceless Corruptor crap as well. How that made it thru play testing is beyond me. It was clear after one game that that card was too powerful.
Anyway, let’s hope for a little more diverse and ‘balanced’ meta once the changes come into effect.
Missing lethal since June 2015.
Actually, the meta (yet excluding shaman) is pretty fine, I'm having a lot of fun.
I'm playing mostly Singleton Dragon Mage.
Not me! I never left.
I'm not sure paladin got nothing strong. Just nothing big.
I think the pure paladin deck has some legs as an effective rush deck that can keep itself fueled for longer than most rush decks. But if this isn't a paladin deck you want to run, you may have hit a snag.
Weirdly enough, I thought we were going to get big paladin as a thing this time round after nozdormu was announced, but instead it seems to be slotting in as a big late game tempo card for a more aggro styled deck. Most decks have a bit of problems dealing with a turn 8 double nozdormu if you generate 1 off of crusader turn 7. Just hope galakrond shaman hasn't done all it's set up by that point.
I remember some of those days. I even played a bit of cubelock myself. Nothing will beat the pain that was pre nerf undertaker snowballing. Still sends shivers down my spine.
Yea, it's called Shaman, and not Shaman.
I've had a high winrate playing with Making Mummies decks with the current meta so idk.
The golden age of Hearthstone is firmly in the rearview mirror. Meaningful experimentation is over. Finding interesting interactions and strategies is over. Everyone knew exactly what would be OP as soon as they released the cards and any attempt to homebrew against the established power curve is hilariously pointless.
The game is too swingy and they seem unable to playtest their own game before releasing it. I've been here since beta and have watched misstep after misstep with Hearthstone.
Remember when academic espionage rogue was almost viable? Probably one of the healthier metas but even then Odd Pally made too many matches an oppressive slog. There was still room to try things though.
I really feel that the lackeys were a mistake. 1 mana 1/1's with ridiculous effects that combo off tons of other things makes the game a race to lethal instead of an interesting strategy of counterplay.
But if we want to talk about the design issues for a moment look at Corrupt the Waters and the Druid quest, Untapped Potential (one of the stronger quests).
With the Druid quest, you have to have mana unspent for 4 turns. This is an actual sacrifice. You are losing tempo for 4 crucial turns to get a strong effect for the rest of the game as a reward. The strong effect is that the choose one cards are combined. It's a good quest and well designed. It doesn't automatically steamroll opponents but is a strong effect that is worth the sacrifice of tempo loss in decks that design around it.
Now, look at Corrupt the Waters. Play 6 Battlecry minions and for the rest of the game, you can spend 2 mana to double all battlecries.
Now on the surface, this looks like it has some disadvantages to the Druid quest. Firstly 6 minions vs 4 turns. Well, we all know that with lackey generation and the fact that you WANT to be playing Battlecry cards anyway this is no hindrance and the quest can often be finished by turn 4 anyway without any of the tempo loss. The requirements are much better than the Druid quest.
So the reward is clearly better than the choose one combined effect so you have to spend 2 mana each turn activating the effect as opposed to the Druid quest that remains passive.
You can see the logic behind how they attempted to balance it but it shows how badly thought out their balancing actually is. It simply doesn't take in to account how easy it is to spend 2 mana a turn with the sheer amount of strong Battlecrys attached to cheap bodies in the game.
OK, so it's a bit of a screw-up so you expect them to not make the same mistake twice...
Nope. They don't just ignore the issue they actively decide what it really needs is to be buffed with even more ridiculous Battlecry cards that make it even stronger.
How is this stupidity getting through playtesting? It's not feasible for a competent team.
If you are still not convinced imagine you had seen all the cards for DoD on the Custom Hearthstone subreddit. What would have been your honest reaction to most of them?
Be honest.
I've been doing okay with Pure Pally. Despite its random nature, Lightforged Crusader is a surprisingly strong card.
Problem is, most of the power is in just a few cards, and there is no way to combat them. The double 5/6 taunts is just plain stupid.
This 100%
This is the quite the quick nerf bat hammering down. You can spin it two ways I guess. Perhaps they are just being more proactive and responding quicker. Or perhaps they realize the poor state of the meta they created with an OP set introduced and lack of said playtesting.
the only class that keeps me from playing ranked right now is just shaman... this *** class just has way too many OP cards...