I know that shaman is very strong but you could change your deck. I was playing galakronk rogue and I was crushed by shamans but I changed my deck to treant druid and now I have a very good winrate against shamans
I think a big part of the problem is that Shaman is very good against the kinds of decks a lot of people want to play.
This has always been an issue in Hearthstone -- whether they are strong or not, decks that don't allow any real Arena-style curvestone play are always the first to draw hate.
And though the word "curvestone" may seem disparaging, I don't mean it as such. It's actually the foundation of the game, and it's the baseline expectation most players probably have when they fire up Hearthstone.
But due to the constant stream of super-easy removal inherent with Galakrond, the Tempest, heavily minion-based strategies don't work so well against it. It is totally understandable that players would not be thrilled about that, as minions are the heart and soul of Hearthstone -- particularly now, with the expansion being so focused on Dragons.
So in the end, are there ways to beat Shaman? Yes, and several of them are pretty consistent in doing so. But are those the decks people were actually excited about when they bought the expansion? In most cases, probably not.
It would have been a wiser move on Blizzard's part to ensure that no Galakrond deck would be a curvestone-killer in an expansion where (typically midrangey) Dragon decks are the style they specifically hyped everyone to get excited about.
I know that shaman is very strong but you could change your deck. I was playing galakronk rogue and I was crushed by shamans but I changed my deck to treant druid and now I have a very good winrate against shamans
81% vs druids... i really want you to link your special druid deck that beats shaman that easy...
KEKW. "Save your removals" they said. "That is the solution" they said. Not really a possibility when that deck fills the board every-single-fking-turn.
Wondering - how on earth you can put hope in Control Mage? How can mage beat 4 8/8 with 5/2 weapon??
Yes, it is early, decks are not refined. So is Shaman. It evolves, and becomes stronger, it knows already how to incorporate quest - instead of trying to use Galakrond package in quest build.
It has to be nerfed very fast and not a one card nerf will be enough.
i see everyone complaining about galakrond shaman but their entire game plan is around 2/4 8\8s what everyone can easily beat playing an aggressive deck (killing before the galakrond) or a control deck (killing the 8/8s until you have enough value)
that deck is not even that strong people just don’t know how to save removals anymore
by the way tempo rogue is waaay stronger
all the stats say otherwise. that makes your statement look pretty ignorant.
look, they need to nerf shaman with the big blizzard hammer, like we are used to. the deck is completely over powered. in addition to the already way too strong deck, if aggro comes up in the meta, they tech in AOE removal, if control warrior gets to strong, they tech in platebreaker.
there are way to many problems with shaman. they have to nerf it.
Wondering - how on earth you can put hope in Control Mage? How can mage beat 4 8/8 with 5/2 weapon??
Yes, it is early, decks are not refined. So is Shaman. It evolves, and becomes stronger, it knows already how to incorporate quest - instead of trying to use Galakrond package in quest build.
It has to be nerfed very fast and not a one card nerf will be enough.
Zephyrs and Malygos Flamestrike say high. I’ve been running Reno dragon mage. My only losses to shaman have been in the early game vs an overload variant. Late game mage can make actual threats without relying on a one off battlecry.
I'm more concerned about mage's potential once all the dunces stop trying to play a tempo game and start running it as a control build. Then it steamrolls; I've seen it handily beat every meta deck in the game, and the win rates for mage aren't going to reflect its potential as long as it's used incorrectly. (This wasn't anything I discovered on my own, btw, but a control buddy of mine that has really cleaned up with it).
You are right, OP: it's still very early to declare shaman as utterly broken, but it's not fair to decide that a whole community has it wrong and that shaman isn't crazy overpowered going from Saviors of Uldum meta to Descent of Dragons meta. I think we've had enough of Blizzard mishandling shaman's power levels because they can't balance the overload mechanic.
Dude Reno dragon mage is nuts when played like a control deck. I just need to refine my list a bit and I’ll be golden but so far it fairs pretty well vs shaman.
I wish this were true unfortunately its not. Without terrible draws its one of the best standard decks I’ve seen. It can flood the board with huge minions at least 8 times and will be chipping your heal the whole time. It still retains its burst potential too. Even worse than the 8/8s sometimes is the 5/5 weapon they can get twice for basically fee. If you have a deck code that is proven to do well against it I’d love to know what it is because I’ve tried just about all of them now and haven't found anything consistently beats it.
Did you try trump tempo rogue?
I think the problem you are having here is your overstatement of the situation. I would agree that tempo rogue is probably a bit better. But that fact doesn't mean Shaman isn't that strong. Shaman is still VERY strong. But maybe not as good as Tempo Rogue.
That being said just because 2/1's are easy to kill doesn't mean much. When the 2/1s are being produced if you are using a card to clear my summoned minions I won't cry about it.
I will say that tempo rogue feels good against Galakrond quest shaman for the simple fact that tempo rogue's minions hit awkward break points. 5 and 7 health respectively making trades not terribly clean for the 2/1s. Additionally the rush mechanic is punshied badly against a board that benefits so heavily from death rattle.
But against almost every other deck Galakrond shaman is handling quite well on average. That doesn't make it a bad deck if it has one bad match up.
Lastly you simply can not point to the freshness of a meta as a counter point to other people's arguments without simultaneously undermining your own argument. We can only deal in what information we have and unfortunately current information shows that Galakrond/Quest shaman is quite strong.
Lastly, tech in some silence mechanics and Tempo Rogue suffers badly. That is what I did and the deck is MUUUCH easier to manage.
lmao this thread. Battlecry Shaman is definitely benefiting from the unrefined meta and having such a simple gameplan (just play battlecries 4Head). But even if other decks become stronger, it won't change that Battlecry Shaman's power basically comes from itself. I don't see it being anywhere less than Tier 1 when the meta settles.
I know that shaman is very strong but you could change your deck. I was playing galakronk rogue and I was crushed by shamans but I changed my deck to treant druid and now I have a very good winrate against shamans
<image of shaman win rate versus each class>
81% vs druids... i really want you to link your special druid deck that beats shaman that easy...
There are at least three Druid archetypes right now, so the win rate vs the class as a whole is meaningless.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The deck is quite oppressive. Sure some control decks, face decks (very few and still sub 50% wr) and otk (holywrath is the best deck vs it) decks can beat Shaman; I've had success with deathrattle rogue (@P_W0LF), Shaman just shouldn't be able to get to full invoked galakrond so consistently while also maintaining board control. Personally, I think they will adjust the deck slightly by maybe nerfing the spirits to 1/1's or doing something about the 5 mana 3/3.
Wondering - how on earth you can put hope in Control Mage? How can mage beat 4 8/8 with 5/2 weapon??
Yes, it is early, decks are not refined. So is Shaman. It evolves, and becomes stronger, it knows already how to incorporate quest - instead of trying to use Galakrond package in quest build.
It has to be nerfed very fast and not a one card nerf will be enough.
Zephyrs and Malygos Flamestrike say high. I’ve been running Reno dragon mage. My only losses to shaman have been in the early game vs an overload variant. Late game mage can make actual threats without relying on a one off battlecry.
My experience is it's easy to steam roll mage with shaman if I get galakrond early, I can kill them before they can stabilize. If I draw bad then yeah mage can be a pain. Still would think shaman us favored overall
Shaman is definitely strong, but it is way too early to call for nerfs. The meta hasn't even stopped churning yet.
The build linked in this thread beats aggro but loses to midrange. I went against a dragon pally with my shaman that beat me even though I got a solid set of minions, Nozari healadin annihilates this build. Rogue with Flik can clear all four 8/8s for 6 mana. Pirate warrior can rush it down before it gets going. Same with Highlander Hunter. Priest can just Murozond to clear, or drop their own Galakrond.
It'll be a week or two before the meta solidifies and people start playing anti meta decks, and then it will diversify.
I know that shaman is very strong but you could change your deck. I was playing galakronk rogue and I was crushed by shamans but I changed my deck to treant druid and now I have a very good winrate against shamans
I think a big part of the problem is that Shaman is very good against the kinds of decks a lot of people want to play.
This has always been an issue in Hearthstone -- whether they are strong or not, decks that don't allow any real Arena-style curvestone play are always the first to draw hate.
And though the word "curvestone" may seem disparaging, I don't mean it as such. It's actually the foundation of the game, and it's the baseline expectation most players probably have when they fire up Hearthstone.
But due to the constant stream of super-easy removal inherent with Galakrond, the Tempest, heavily minion-based strategies don't work so well against it. It is totally understandable that players would not be thrilled about that, as minions are the heart and soul of Hearthstone -- particularly now, with the expansion being so focused on Dragons.
So in the end, are there ways to beat Shaman? Yes, and several of them are pretty consistent in doing so. But are those the decks people were actually excited about when they bought the expansion? In most cases, probably not.
It would have been a wiser move on Blizzard's part to ensure that no Galakrond deck would be a curvestone-killer in an expansion where (typically midrangey) Dragon decks are the style they specifically hyped everyone to get excited about.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
81% vs druids... i really want you to link your special druid deck that beats shaman that easy...
galakrond rogue with magic carpet wrecks every shaman deck i've faced so far, currently 9-1 at rank 4 :)
KEKW. "Save your removals" they said. "That is the solution" they said. Not really a possibility when that deck fills the board every-single-fking-turn.
ignore this guy, he's just scared because his beloved shaman is about to get nerfed.
Wondering - how on earth you can put hope in Control Mage? How can mage beat 4 8/8 with 5/2 weapon??
Yes, it is early, decks are not refined. So is Shaman. It evolves, and becomes stronger, it knows already how to incorporate quest - instead of trying to use Galakrond package in quest build.
It has to be nerfed very fast and not a one card nerf will be enough.
With the Warrior Deathwing in the pool, Fleshshaper can now become a 12/12 as well, to add more injury to the insult.
That sounds like a really interesting deck. I struggle to find rogue builds that I enjoy. Could you link/post it here?
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
all the stats say otherwise. that makes your statement look pretty ignorant.
look, they need to nerf shaman with the big blizzard hammer, like we are used to. the deck is completely over powered. in addition to the already way too strong deck, if aggro comes up in the meta, they tech in AOE removal, if control warrior gets to strong, they tech in platebreaker.
there are way to many problems with shaman. they have to nerf it.
Zephyrs and Malygos Flamestrike say high. I’ve been running Reno dragon mage. My only losses to shaman have been in the early game vs an overload variant. Late game mage can make actual threats without relying on a one off battlecry.
yea bcs it got nerfed #facepalm
Dude Reno dragon mage is nuts when played like a control deck. I just need to refine my list a bit and I’ll be golden but so far it fairs pretty well vs shaman.
I think the problem you are having here is your overstatement of the situation. I would agree that tempo rogue is probably a bit better. But that fact doesn't mean Shaman isn't that strong. Shaman is still VERY strong. But maybe not as good as Tempo Rogue.
That being said just because 2/1's are easy to kill doesn't mean much. When the 2/1s are being produced if you are using a card to clear my summoned minions I won't cry about it.
I will say that tempo rogue feels good against Galakrond quest shaman for the simple fact that tempo rogue's minions hit awkward break points. 5 and 7 health respectively making trades not terribly clean for the 2/1s. Additionally the rush mechanic is punshied badly against a board that benefits so heavily from death rattle.
But against almost every other deck Galakrond shaman is handling quite well on average. That doesn't make it a bad deck if it has one bad match up.
Lastly you simply can not point to the freshness of a meta as a counter point to other people's arguments without simultaneously undermining your own argument. We can only deal in what information we have and unfortunately current information shows that Galakrond/Quest shaman is quite strong.
Lastly, tech in some silence mechanics and Tempo Rogue suffers badly. That is what I did and the deck is MUUUCH easier to manage.
lmao this thread. Battlecry Shaman is definitely benefiting from the unrefined meta and having such a simple gameplan (just play battlecries 4Head). But even if other decks become stronger, it won't change that Battlecry Shaman's power basically comes from itself. I don't see it being anywhere less than Tier 1 when the meta settles.
There are at least three Druid archetypes right now, so the win rate vs the class as a whole is meaningless.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The deck is quite oppressive. Sure some control decks, face decks (very few and still sub 50% wr) and otk (holywrath is the best deck vs it) decks can beat Shaman; I've had success with deathrattle rogue (@P_W0LF), Shaman just shouldn't be able to get to full invoked galakrond so consistently while also maintaining board control. Personally, I think they will adjust the deck slightly by maybe nerfing the spirits to 1/1's or doing something about the 5 mana 3/3.
Only free on the weekends :(
My experience is it's easy to steam roll mage with shaman if I get galakrond early, I can kill them before they can stabilize. If I draw bad then yeah mage can be a pain. Still would think shaman us favored overall
Shaman is definitely strong, but it is way too early to call for nerfs. The meta hasn't even stopped churning yet.
The build linked in this thread beats aggro but loses to midrange. I went against a dragon pally with my shaman that beat me even though I got a solid set of minions, Nozari healadin annihilates this build. Rogue with Flik can clear all four 8/8s for 6 mana. Pirate warrior can rush it down before it gets going. Same with Highlander Hunter. Priest can just Murozond to clear, or drop their own Galakrond.
It'll be a week or two before the meta solidifies and people start playing anti meta decks, and then it will diversify.
you can somehow manage the galakrond turn, but when they shudder afterwards it becomes impossible