One person experiencing a personal high win rate at an unspecified rank proves less than nothing.
Other decks use N'Zoth. Other decks can copy N'Zoth. Other decks do it better than Warlock.
Warlock is still dumpster-tier.
Come on, there is no need to be so aggressive. I am not trying to prove anything, I'm just saying that I'm surprised that warlock is at the lowest tier
Overall class win-rates aren't indicative of the relative health of the classes - Zoo is fine, at the bottom of Tier 2, and the class win-rate for Warlock is being tanked by all the crappy decks people are choosing to play.
Another limitation of citing overall win-rates is that most folks who play the game are C-students, or worse. The relative health of a class often looks much different when considering the high-end meta-game - for example, Grandmasters routinely showcases Tier 3 HSReplays decks, because those are the best decks in the game when clever folks pilot them, while the Tier 1 HSReplays decks are often considered low-tier among better players.
This is usually how hs works. Rember agro shaman from couple years ago? After it dominated meta sham was dead for long time. Same with pirate warrior, after it died there was no war archetype for long time.
This is how things go here. Strongest classes got bigest nerf hits and need to wait couple expansion to recover. No worries - warlock will be good again after some time.
This is why they need to perform regular balance checks. An entire class being at 43% winrate is unacceptable. Why do you people not make more noise for balance checks????
for example, Grandmasters routinely showcases Tier 3 HSReplays decks, because those are the best decks in the game when clever folks pilot them, while the Tier 1 HSReplays decks are often considered low-tier among better players.
Its the Conquest/Shield system that makes these decks better in GM than on Ladder, not the skill of the players. Not that I think HSR is necessarily indicative of a deck's performance at high level (although Vicious Syndicate does this very well), but you won't see Holy Wrath Paladin perform particularly well at top 100 ladder in any region despite the fact that it was a very solid pick at GM due to the tournament format and it queuing favourably into the most highly represented decks - they were almost guaranteed a Combo Priest match every series.
Don't forget that Masters and Grandmasters players all play on ladder as well, and there are plenty of non-pro ladder only players that have a similar skill level to those who compete in tournaments. The tier lists are generally geared towards ladder where your build has to be good against a much wider variety of decks, and can't get by simply by having a good matchup against Combo Priest and Quest Shaman, for example.
Overall class win-rates aren't indicative of the relative health of the classes - Zoo is fine, at the bottom of Tier 2, and the class win-rate for Warlock is being tanked by all the crappy decks people are choosing to play.
Another limitation of citing overall win-rates is that most folks who play the game are C-students, or worse. The relative health of a class often looks much different when considering the high-end meta-game - for example, Grandmasters routinely showcases Tier 3 HSReplays decks, because those are the best decks in the game when clever folks pilot them, while the Tier 1 HSReplays decks are often considered low-tier among better players.
U talk about C-students, academic theory in a children's game? Seriously dude? Bad comparision...a game doesn't have anything to do with the lvl of student u're. U can be a shitty student and still win millions in Poker...know ur sh*** before talk.
Edit: Even so, Poker is still way hard than this game...
Mage is basically in the exact same spot that it was after the nerfs. Its winrate hasn't change, but Warlock dropped below. More than likely because it deserved a better card than Renounce.
Felt like Warlock was in a good place when standard changed with the expired merchants and almost infinite nzoths. Guessing it changed recently but I've havent played in awhile. Tried to do resurrect Priest but felt like Warlock was a bit better. Did the meta change allot to hurt Warlock?
Warlock is suffering in standard :( . Garbage winrates, garbage archetypes.
Realy? Actually I am having the highest win rate with warlock since bloodreaver Guldan left standard right now
Which deck? Zoo seems weak right now..
The only thing keeping mage one step ahead is Flamewaker, but the class is trash too in Standard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBSU1sRzc18&t=195s
The one in this video. It uses Expired Merchant to duplicate N'Zoth
One person experiencing a personal high win rate at an unspecified rank proves less than nothing.
Other decks use N'Zoth. Other decks can copy N'Zoth. Other decks do it better than Warlock.
Warlock is still dumpster-tier.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Come on, there is no need to be so aggressive. I am not trying to prove anything, I'm just saying that I'm surprised that warlock is at the lowest tier
yeah warlock is in the dumpster tier.
Overall class win-rates aren't indicative of the relative health of the classes - Zoo is fine, at the bottom of Tier 2, and the class win-rate for Warlock is being tanked by all the crappy decks people are choosing to play.
Another limitation of citing overall win-rates is that most folks who play the game are C-students, or worse. The relative health of a class often looks much different when considering the high-end meta-game - for example, Grandmasters routinely showcases Tier 3 HSReplays decks, because those are the best decks in the game when clever folks pilot them, while the Tier 1 HSReplays decks are often considered low-tier among better players.
This is usually how hs works. Rember agro shaman from couple years ago? After it dominated meta sham was dead for long time. Same with pirate warrior, after it died there was no war archetype for long time.
This is how things go here. Strongest classes got bigest nerf hits and need to wait couple expansion to recover. No worries - warlock will be good again after some time.
i just climbed from r10 to r4 with zoo. ;)
This is why they need to perform regular balance checks. An entire class being at 43% winrate is unacceptable. Why do you people not make more noise for balance checks????
Its the Conquest/Shield system that makes these decks better in GM than on Ladder, not the skill of the players. Not that I think HSR is necessarily indicative of a deck's performance at high level (although Vicious Syndicate does this very well), but you won't see Holy Wrath Paladin perform particularly well at top 100 ladder in any region despite the fact that it was a very solid pick at GM due to the tournament format and it queuing favourably into the most highly represented decks - they were almost guaranteed a Combo Priest match every series.
Don't forget that Masters and Grandmasters players all play on ladder as well, and there are plenty of non-pro ladder only players that have a similar skill level to those who compete in tournaments. The tier lists are generally geared towards ladder where your build has to be good against a much wider variety of decks, and can't get by simply by having a good matchup against Combo Priest and Quest Shaman, for example.
On topic, yeah Warlock is dreadful and needs help.
U talk about C-students, academic theory in a children's game? Seriously dude? Bad comparision...a game doesn't have anything to do with the lvl of student u're. U can be a shitty student and still win millions in Poker...know ur sh*** before talk.
Edit: Even so, Poker is still way hard than this game...
Mage is basically in the exact same spot that it was after the nerfs. Its winrate hasn't change, but Warlock dropped below. More than likely because it deserved a better card than Renounce.
Felt like Warlock was in a good place when standard changed with the expired merchants and almost infinite nzoths. Guessing it changed recently but I've havent played in awhile. Tried to do resurrect Priest but felt like Warlock was a bit better. Did the meta change allot to hurt Warlock?
Not sure if hyped yet.
the list is total wrong if this was true then each1 will have a win rate of 48.7... where did the last 1.3% go?
For such a long time it was the most op champ in HS. Its fair.