I just can't get why people complain about this deck. It's easily predictable, loses against both aggro and control, if they don't complete the quest by turn 5 they lose like 90% of times, and shudderwock is basically a dice roll beacause except for lifedrinker that always targets face the other battlecries can hit your opponent's hero or his other minions. And also weaponized wasp needs a lackey on your board to activate its battlecry so unless you want to lose you just kill those lackeys, which are 1/1 so it won't be that hard. Mogu is another thing, but it's dangerous mostly to aggro decks when it evolves into something good beacause aggro usually lacks hard removal. So to win against quest shaman you just need to do good trades and avoid to stay below or at 6-12 health to avoid their wasps and lifedrinker; and don't play all your good minions at once so MCT is useless. To conclude this remember that ANY deck can have some really lucky draws or rng sometimes, so just don't cry over it.
When do they NOT complete the quest by turn 5? Anybody playing it right easily does this every game. If you look at hsreplay, you can see this deck is dominating the ladder. I guess you are just the exception to the rule of most people losing to this deck.
I just can't get why people complain about this deck. It's easily predictable, loses against both aggro and control, if they don't complete the quest by turn 5 they lose like 90% of times, and shudderwock is basically a dice roll beacause except for lifedrinker that always targets face the other battlecries can hit your opponent's hero or his other minions. And also weaponized wasp needs a lackey on your board to activate its battlecry so unless you want to lose you just kill those lackeys, which are 1/1 so it won't be that hard. Mogu is another thing, but it's dangerous mostly to aggro decks when it evolves into something good beacause aggro usually lacks hard removal. So to win against quest shaman you just need to do good trades and avoid to stay below or at 6-12 health to avoid their wasps and lifedrinker; and don't play all your good minions at once so MCT is useless. To conclude this remember that ANY deck can have some really lucky draws or rng sometimes, so just don't cry over it.
It is only predictable in as much as it plays a pretty solved deck list, but you still have a lot of variations of Lackey/Spell generation to play around. It is also predictable that they might play Desert Hare > Evolve on turn 4. Predicting that doesn't mean you can beat it. Aggro can beat Quest Shaman if it curves well, yes, but if you're beating them with Control decks consistently they have no idea what they are doing. Quest Shaman can generate about three deck's worth of resources and deal upwards of 20 burst in a turn - Control doesn't beat that. Not sure how to answer your randomly generated quest completion statistic - obviously the deck's win rate doesn't plummet to 10% if they miss turn 5 quest completion. They might struggle with aggro if they have a slow draw on Quest but it doesn't really affect slower matchups. Shudderwock is not there to hit the opponent's face in most cases (unless they are low and you have 3 or 4 lifedrinkers loaded) it it used to completely refill your hand (sometimes also board depending on the build). Its half the reason Control decks can't win against the deck. Lackeys are 1/1 and easy to kill, correct, but they are also 1 mana and are a lot harder to kill when they're not on the board yet. It isn't hard for your opponent to wait a turn and play Lackey > Wasp on the same turn before you can react. Mogu > Mutate is a moronic combo against almost everything because dealing with an 8 drop on turn 4 isn't easy for any deck. You've got the 1 of Polymorph in Reno Mage, a couple of Hexes in Control Shaman and some fringe Shield Slam scenarios. Even in these situations, you're forced to skip your turn 4 or 5 instead of developing on to the board, and the Mogu is a pretty expendable resource for the Shaman. Win the board and don't die is pretty solid advice to win against any deck, but being limited to playing 3 decent minions at a time while the Shaman is free to develop wide boards whenever they want doesn't allow you to do this. Also MCT is a very strong play into N'Zoth, which most decks that can otherwise afford to not go wide are playing. Idk what rank you are playing at but it sounds like all the Quest Shaman players there are morons.
It is only predictable in as much as it plays a pretty solved deck list, but you still have a lot of variations of Lackey/Spell generation to play around
Most players use the same list, maybe they put a few different minions,(Swampqueen Hagatha, two Giggling Inventor instead of one, maybe Emperor Thaurissan to reduce shudderwock cost to 8) but the structure of the deck is the same every time otherwise it wouldn't work that well. So it is predictable most of the times. Also lackeys/spells aren't always the perfect answer at the perfect moment.
Predicting that doesn't mean you can beat it.
Predicting usually means that you plan how to respond to the possible actions the opponent is going to make and by doing that you can have an advantage that can let you win the game if you don't make stupid plays and use it correctly
Quest Shaman can generate about three deck's worth of resources and deal upwards of 20 burst in a turn - Control doesn't beat that.
Quest Shaman CAN generate a lot of value, but i doesn't mean that is the right value at the right time. Rng alone can make them lose sometimes. Also 20 burst in a turn comes in at turn 10 if they did keep all the cards in their hand for who knows how long, which is unlikely cause both wasps and damage lackeys are often used to clear threats on the board or used in more turns rather than all on turn ten. How control can't beat that is just plain stupid, considering that for example a control warrior alive on turn 10 probably stabilized and can have more than 20 armor if you kept your burst dmg in hand. Control priest on turn ten has access to his best cards, and can have plenty of healing, hard removal and board clears avaiable from the beginning of the match.
Not sure how to answer your randomly generated quest completion statistic - obviously the deck's win rate doesn't plummet to 10% if they miss turn 5 quest completion. They might struggle with aggro if they have a slow draw on Quest but it doesn't really affect slower matchups
You're right, it doesn't plummet to 10%, but still the more they slow down the more they are likely to lose. It does affect slower matchups too, if they can't put pressure on a control deck from like turn 2/3 and have to wait for turn 5/6 to make huge swings, they can lose simply beacause their opponent has access to his best board clears from that turn onwards.
Shudderwock is not there to hit the opponent's face in most cases (unless they are low and you have 3 or 4 lifedrinkers loaded) it it used to completely refill your hand (sometimes also board depending on the build)
While Shudderwock is rarely a finisher, the order in which cards are given to them and what they target is based on rng. I said it previously every deck can have a good rng swing and win, just don't cry over it. Also the refill cause them to burn something the turn later and is also a random refill. They may get one or two good answers but they can also get garbage and lose
Lackeys are 1/1 and easy to kill, correct, but they are also 1 mana and are a lot harder to kill when they're not on the board yet. It isn't hard for your opponent to wait a turn and play Lackey > Wasp on the same turn before you can react.
Still if they have to complete the quest they are going to use them instantly, and you can simply pay attention and try to keep track on what they have on their hand. Its not that hard to figure out that if on turn 3 for example they generated one or two lackeys on turn 4 they might play a lackey and a wasp
Mogu > Mutate is a moronic combo against almost everything because dealing with an 8 drop on turn 4 isn't easy for any deck. You've got the 1 of Polymorph in Reno Mage, a couple of Hexes in Control Shaman and some fringe Shield Slam scenarios. Even in these situations, you're forced to skip your turn 4 or 5 instead of developing on to the board, and the Mogu is a pretty expendable resource for the Shaman.
On this one i do agree, it's too much unless you play control and still problematic in those cases sometimes. But i fail to see how this is something they can pull out every match, it's just based on a good draw on their part.
Win the board and don't die is pretty solid advice to win against any deck, but being limited to playing 3 decent minions at a time while the Shaman is free to develop wide boards whenever they want doesn't allow you to do this. Also MCT is a very strong play into N'Zoth, which most decks that can otherwise afford to not go wide are playing.
MCT is their only comeback from losing the board, and can steal shitty minions too. If it was a choose one of your opponent minions and gain control of it effect, it would be broken, but it's not like that and so it doesn't need a nerf.
Idk what rank you are playing at but it sounds like all the Quest Shaman players there are morons.
That's the worst point you made so far. I'm currently playing between rank 2-3 and trying to get to legend before the end of the month. Maybe i beated some morons, but it's a bit hard to believe that every quest shaman player i encountered was a retard. Been doing good with quest maly druid, and most of the time i don't need to pull of the maly combo to win against shamans. Still i do lose sometimes against those but you can't always win.
I main a quest/evolve shammy right now, and I lose to:
combo priests if they draw the nuts early on
N'Zoth anything
control shaman or warrior
edit: I also lose to aggro decks if they get good early draw and I do not, but this isn't the rule
Practice more. The only one of these matchups that's unfavoured is Combo Priest.
Danjo is right, those decks if played well can crush quest shaman. In conclusion Quest shaman, with or without the evolve package, it's a deck that relies too much on rng to win, so it's inconsistent most of the times. If you lose to them beacause of some highroll on their part remember that ANY deck has the chance to highroll and win easily. It just happens. Also we had some more cancerous decks like combo priest, that needed and still needs a nerf, but yeah let's just complain about shaman.
you can defend Shaman all you want. When more than 30% at all ranks and over 40% at rank 1 is Shaman (check vicious syndicate last report) it is because it is stupidly OP.
And yes, I think priest is too good as well, you just don't see it as much as Shaman nowadays and therefore is less of an issue. This will probably change once the wild cards move out.
you can defend Shaman all you want. When more than 30% at all ranks and over 40% at rank 1 is Shaman (check vicious syndicate last report) it is because it is stupidly OP.
And yes, I think priest is too good as well, you just don't see it as much as Shaman nowadays and therefore is less of an issue. This will probably change once the wild cards move out.
No, people don't play it beacause it's OP. People play it beacause it's somewhat cheap ( only the quest itself and shudderwock are required and considering that highlander decks requires atleast four legendaries it's just easier to craft a shaman deck), it's not that hard to pilot and simply beacause a good amount of the players are sheeps who play the most popular deck out there beacause in their mind Popular=OP.Want proofs for this last statement? look at combo priest: it's still strong it wrecks shamans,hunters,mages,druids,and even other priests and it's even cheaper. Before this event it had the same playrate as shaman and i think even a better winrate overall, but everyone moved on new decks and it was forgotten. From rank 5 to 2 in one week i saw only one combo priest and i lost against him, so its still a solid deck. Same goes for highlander hunter it was really good and it's still somewhat good but people play other decks. Also by your reasoning every deck that becomes popular needs to be put down beacause popularity means op, and actual op or broken decks don't need balancing beacause are played by a smaller group of players.
i think it’s Same people ever expansion. Hearthpwn.com people playing rank 20 - rank 5 with their self copied netdecks. But on hearthpwn forum they suddenly become legendary grandmaster players. They state their experience as the meta and their opinion as a Fact.
Edit: oh sometimes they also think solo adventures are too difficult. Lmao
I have read a number of posts saying that Quest Shaman is not overpowered, and that only amateurs have trouble beating it. I assume over 90% of hearthstone players are amateurs, so I am wondering from the pros or experts that say quest shaman is not too strong, are there any decks currently in the meta that you see as a problem? Or do you think the game is actually pretty balanced right now?
i think it’s Same people ever expansion. Hearthpwn.com people playing rank 20 - rank 5 with their self copied netdecks. But on hearthpwn forum they suddenly become legendary grandmaster players. They state their experience as the meta and their opinion as a Fact.
Edit: oh sometimes they also think solo adventures are too difficult. Lmao
I have read a number of posts saying that Quest Shaman is not overpowered, and that only amateurs have trouble beating it. I assume over 90% of hearthstone players are amateurs, so I am wondering from the pros or experts that say quest shaman is not too strong, are there any decks currently in the meta that you see as a problem? Or do you think the game is actually pretty balanced right now?
purple currently concedes every game against shamans on stream :) "it's so toxic, maybe they will do something about it"
I have read a number of posts saying that Quest Shaman is not overpowered, and that only amateurs have trouble beating it. I assume over 90% of hearthstone players are amateurs, so I am wondering from the pros or experts that say quest shaman is not too strong, are there any decks currently in the meta that you see as a problem? Or do you think the game is actually pretty balanced right now?
not 90%, less than that as 30%-40% Is playing shaman and half of them got free legend this month.
i think it’s Same people ever expansion. Hearthpwn.com people playing rank 20 - rank 5 with their self copied netdecks. But on hearthpwn forum they suddenly become legendary grandmaster players. They state their experience as the meta and their opinion as a Fact.
Edit: oh sometimes they also think solo adventures are too difficult. Lmao
They also become senior game developers when they don't like the game. "If i was in charge, HS would be so much better". Cute.
Also, you can do 20 face damage from an empty board with the deck once you hit 10 mana. Hero power, 2-damage lackey x2, weaponized wasp x2. People used to bemoan the force of nature + savage roar combo for 14 damage... but the shaman one can do this straight to your face no matter how many taunt minions you have out. It’s kind of crazy.
20 damage from a 2+ Turn, 5+ card combo which also requires some pretty heavy high rolls in RNG to pull off (if at all) It's not really something that is going to concern most people too much.
This is pretty much why the deck has a fairly middle-of-the-road win rate and isn't being considered for retroactive updating.
i think it’s Same people ever expansion. Hearthpwn.com people playing rank 20 - rank 5 with their self copied netdecks. But on hearthpwn forum they suddenly become legendary grandmaster players. They state their experience as the meta and their opinion as a Fact.
Edit: oh sometimes they also think solo adventures are too difficult. Lmao
I have read a number of posts saying that Quest Shaman is not overpowered, and that only amateurs have trouble beating it. I assume over 90% of hearthstone players are amateurs, so I am wondering from the pros or experts that say quest shaman is not too strong, are there any decks currently in the meta that you see as a problem? Or do you think the game is actually pretty balanced right now?
purple currently concedes every game against shamans on stream :) "it's so toxic, maybe they will do something about it"
You don't let them have minion on board and you win. I think there are more toxic decks but they are sorta expensive not much people play it such as Highlander Paladin. I fkn hated Mysterious Challenger back in time and it seems I still hate it. I also hate Flamewaker
While I think your message could be a bit friendlier my feelings are about the same.
I don't know what to tell ya guy. Its just how its working. Its far from unbeatable. However you're basically playing a rock papper scissors game. Your deck might win against one type but lose to another. Its just how it goes. Can't remove the Rock just because you're always scissors.
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I just can't get why people complain about this deck. It's easily predictable, loses against both aggro and control, if they don't complete the quest by turn 5 they lose like 90% of times, and shudderwock is basically a dice roll beacause except for lifedrinker that always targets face the other battlecries can hit your opponent's hero or his other minions. And also weaponized wasp needs a lackey on your board to activate its battlecry so unless you want to lose you just kill those lackeys, which are 1/1 so it won't be that hard. Mogu is another thing, but it's dangerous mostly to aggro decks when it evolves into something good beacause aggro usually lacks hard removal. So to win against quest shaman you just need to do good trades and avoid to stay below or at 6-12 health to avoid their wasps and lifedrinker; and don't play all your good minions at once so MCT is useless. To conclude this remember that ANY deck can have some really lucky draws or rng sometimes, so just don't cry over it.
I main a quest/evolve shammy right now, and I lose to:
combo priests if they draw the nuts early on
N'Zoth anything
control shaman or warrior
edit: I also lose to aggro decks if they get good early draw and I do not, but this isn't the rule
please do tell me about this control aggro deck you are referring to
When do they NOT complete the quest by turn 5? Anybody playing it right easily does this every game. If you look at hsreplay, you can see this deck is dominating the ladder. I guess you are just the exception to the rule of most people losing to this deck.
It is only predictable in as much as it plays a pretty solved deck list, but you still have a lot of variations of Lackey/Spell generation to play around. It is also predictable that they might play Desert Hare > Evolve on turn 4. Predicting that doesn't mean you can beat it.
Aggro can beat Quest Shaman if it curves well, yes, but if you're beating them with Control decks consistently they have no idea what they are doing. Quest Shaman can generate about three deck's worth of resources and deal upwards of 20 burst in a turn - Control doesn't beat that.
Not sure how to answer your randomly generated quest completion statistic - obviously the deck's win rate doesn't plummet to 10% if they miss turn 5 quest completion. They might struggle with aggro if they have a slow draw on Quest but it doesn't really affect slower matchups.
Shudderwock is not there to hit the opponent's face in most cases (unless they are low and you have 3 or 4 lifedrinkers loaded) it it used to completely refill your hand (sometimes also board depending on the build). Its half the reason Control decks can't win against the deck.
Lackeys are 1/1 and easy to kill, correct, but they are also 1 mana and are a lot harder to kill when they're not on the board yet. It isn't hard for your opponent to wait a turn and play Lackey > Wasp on the same turn before you can react.
Mogu > Mutate is a moronic combo against almost everything because dealing with an 8 drop on turn 4 isn't easy for any deck. You've got the 1 of Polymorph in Reno Mage, a couple of Hexes in Control Shaman and some fringe Shield Slam scenarios. Even in these situations, you're forced to skip your turn 4 or 5 instead of developing on to the board, and the Mogu is a pretty expendable resource for the Shaman.
Win the board and don't die is pretty solid advice to win against any deck, but being limited to playing 3 decent minions at a time while the Shaman is free to develop wide boards whenever they want doesn't allow you to do this. Also MCT is a very strong play into N'Zoth, which most decks that can otherwise afford to not go wide are playing.
Idk what rank you are playing at but it sounds like all the Quest Shaman players there are morons.
Practice more. The only one of these matchups that's unfavoured is Combo Priest.
Let me explain myself better then:
Most players use the same list, maybe they put a few different minions,(Swampqueen Hagatha, two Giggling Inventor instead of one, maybe Emperor Thaurissan to reduce shudderwock cost to 8) but the structure of the deck is the same every time otherwise it wouldn't work that well. So it is predictable most of the times. Also lackeys/spells aren't always the perfect answer at the perfect moment.
Predicting usually means that you plan how to respond to the possible actions the opponent is going to make and by doing that you can have an advantage that can let you win the game if you don't make stupid plays and use it correctly
Quest Shaman CAN generate a lot of value, but i doesn't mean that is the right value at the right time. Rng alone can make them lose sometimes. Also 20 burst in a turn comes in at turn 10 if they did keep all the cards in their hand for who knows how long, which is unlikely cause both wasps and damage lackeys are often used to clear threats on the board or used in more turns rather than all on turn ten. How control can't beat that is just plain stupid, considering that for example a control warrior alive on turn 10 probably stabilized and can have more than 20 armor if you kept your burst dmg in hand. Control priest on turn ten has access to his best cards, and can have plenty of healing, hard removal and board clears avaiable from the beginning of the match.
You're right, it doesn't plummet to 10%, but still the more they slow down the more they are likely to lose. It does affect slower matchups too, if they can't put pressure on a control deck from like turn 2/3 and have to wait for turn 5/6 to make huge swings, they can lose simply beacause their opponent has access to his best board clears from that turn onwards.
While Shudderwock is rarely a finisher, the order in which cards are given to them and what they target is based on rng. I said it previously every deck can have a good rng swing and win, just don't cry over it. Also the refill cause them to burn something the turn later and is also a random refill. They may get one or two good answers but they can also get garbage and lose
Still if they have to complete the quest they are going to use them instantly, and you can simply pay attention and try to keep track on what they have on their hand. Its not that hard to figure out that if on turn 3 for example they generated one or two lackeys on turn 4 they might play a lackey and a wasp
On this one i do agree, it's too much unless you play control and still problematic in those cases sometimes. But i fail to see how this is something they can pull out every match, it's just based on a good draw on their part.
MCT is their only comeback from losing the board, and can steal shitty minions too. If it was a choose one of your opponent minions and gain control of it effect, it would be broken, but it's not like that and so it doesn't need a nerf.
That's the worst point you made so far. I'm currently playing between rank 2-3 and trying to get to legend before the end of the month. Maybe i beated some morons, but it's a bit hard to believe that every quest shaman player i encountered was a retard. Been doing good with quest maly druid, and most of the time i don't need to pull of the maly combo to win against shamans. Still i do lose sometimes against those but you can't always win.
Danjo is right, those decks if played well can crush quest shaman. In conclusion Quest shaman, with or without the evolve package, it's a deck that relies too much on rng to win, so it's inconsistent most of the times. If you lose to them beacause of some highroll on their part remember that ANY deck has the chance to highroll and win easily. It just happens. Also we had some more cancerous decks like combo priest, that needed and still needs a nerf, but yeah let's just complain about shaman.
you can defend Shaman all you want. When more than 30% at all ranks and over 40% at rank 1 is Shaman (check vicious syndicate last report) it is because it is stupidly OP.
And yes, I think priest is too good as well, you just don't see it as much as Shaman nowadays and therefore is less of an issue. This will probably change once the wild cards move out.
I HOPE EVERY SHAMAN PLAYER GETS CANCER
No, people don't play it beacause it's OP. People play it beacause it's somewhat cheap ( only the quest itself and shudderwock are required and considering that highlander decks requires atleast four legendaries it's just easier to craft a shaman deck), it's not that hard to pilot and simply beacause a good amount of the players are sheeps who play the most popular deck out there beacause in their mind Popular=OP.Want proofs for this last statement? look at combo priest: it's still strong it wrecks shamans,hunters,mages,druids,and even other priests and it's even cheaper. Before this event it had the same playrate as shaman and i think even a better winrate overall, but everyone moved on new decks and it was forgotten. From rank 5 to 2 in one week i saw only one combo priest and i lost against him, so its still a solid deck. Same goes for highlander hunter it was really good and it's still somewhat good but people play other decks. Also by your reasoning every deck that becomes popular needs to be put down beacause popularity means op, and actual op or broken decks don't need balancing beacause are played by a smaller group of players.
Well another mature and not toxic comment....
Only amateurs call shaman overpowered.
i think it’s Same people ever expansion. Hearthpwn.com people playing rank 20 - rank 5 with their self copied netdecks. But on hearthpwn forum they suddenly become legendary grandmaster players. They state their experience as the meta and their opinion as a Fact.
Edit: oh sometimes they also think solo adventures are too difficult. Lmao
I have read a number of posts saying that Quest Shaman is not overpowered, and that only amateurs have trouble beating it. I assume over 90% of hearthstone players are amateurs, so I am wondering from the pros or experts that say quest shaman is not too strong, are there any decks currently in the meta that you see as a problem? Or do you think the game is actually pretty balanced right now?
Your tears sustain us and provide cancer resistance.
purple currently concedes every game against shamans on stream :) "it's so toxic, maybe they will do something about it"
not 90%, less than that as 30%-40% Is playing shaman and half of them got free legend this month.
They also become senior game developers when they don't like the game. "If i was in charge, HS would be so much better". Cute.
20 damage from a 2+ Turn, 5+ card combo which also requires some pretty heavy high rolls in RNG to pull off (if at all)
It's not really something that is going to concern most people too much.
This is pretty much why the deck has a fairly middle-of-the-road win rate and isn't being considered for retroactive updating.
Purple is literally playing a version of this deck with Firebat right now... ^_^
And he didnt concede this mirror-match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbtX7UspOi8
You don't let them have minion on board and you win. I think there are more toxic decks but they are sorta expensive not much people play it such as Highlander Paladin. I fkn hated Mysterious Challenger back in time and it seems I still hate it. I also hate Flamewaker
While I think your message could be a bit friendlier my feelings are about the same.
I don't know what to tell ya guy. Its just how its working. Its far from unbeatable. However you're basically playing a rock papper scissors game. Your deck might win against one type but lose to another. Its just how it goes. Can't remove the Rock just because you're always scissors.