Hearthpwn

Quote from Ehronatha >>

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

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IDK what you guys want to achieve with these posts... Blitzhchung and  the  casters broke the rules and Blizzard has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

Also I dont think Blizzard gives a fuck about a few people and 1 caster who quit HS. This is a huge company and tons of people are interested in working for it

 

 You Sir, finally opened my eyes! For this i want to thank you from the bottom of my Heart.

There were Rules , in Black and white god damit, he should have known what happened . Like in the real World , without exactly enforching those rules there would only be Sodom and Gomorrah. You are so right. Blizzard and every authority has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

 

 

 Have you read the actual text of the rule?  It is NOT black and white.  "Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image..."

That's not black and white: that's an arbitrary judgment call.  The rule doesn't even cite politics specifically.  

Struggling with the words in Blizzard's sole discretion, are you?

English not your first language?

Quote from TardisGreen >>

Quote from Ehronatha >>

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from Banner_hs >>

IDK what you guys want to achieve with these posts... Blitzhchung and  the  casters broke the rules and Blizzard has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

Also I dont think Blizzard gives a fuck about a few people and 1 caster who quit HS. This is a huge company and tons of people are interested in working for it

 

 You Sir, finally opened my eyes! For this i want to thank you from the bottom of my Heart.

There were Rules , in Black and white god damit, he should have known what happened . Like in the real World , without exactly enforching those rules there would only be Sodom and Gomorrah. You are so right. Blizzard and every authority has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

 

 

 Have you read the actual text of the rule?  It is NOT black and white.  "Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image..."

That's not black and white: that's an arbitrary judgment call.  The rule doesn't even cite politics specifically.  

Struggling with the words in Blizzard's sole discretion, are you?

English not your first language?

 And people don't feel "Blizzard's sole discretion" was an ethical or moral decision.  Pretty simple actually.  

Don't you guys have morals/ethics?

Sad

Money should never matter more than humanity and liberty. Otherwise we will slowly destroy this planet and each other. Boycott Bizzare Entertainment!

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Dunscot>>

I'm glad that this community is so critical of Blizzard's decision, even when some of it goes too far or in the wrong direction for my taste. But I hope some people will take this incidence to reconsider what kind of climate they have established here.

Despite my previous comment, if the situation improves and everything goes back to normal, I promise to change my attitude in the forum and this time is for real. I have to admit that sometimes things really get out of control. Considering I have been a very active user for more than four years and the fact I like to make some jokes here and there when it's not really adequate, I'm guilty of that, just like many others too. I'm really sorry if you have not feel comfortable posting here in the past, I hope others change their attitude from now on too. :)

 Wow Sherman I've never seen you be so wholesome before :)

I always knew that if a post was from you I would be amused or triggered. I'm glad we have your internet powers on our side in this discussion!

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from TardisGreen >>

Quote from Ehronatha >>

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from Banner_hs >>

IDK what you guys want to achieve with these posts... Blitzhchung and  the  casters broke the rules and Blizzard has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

Also I dont think Blizzard gives a fuck about a few people and 1 caster who quit HS. This is a huge company and tons of people are interested in working for it

 

 You Sir, finally opened my eyes! For this i want to thank you from the bottom of my Heart.

There were Rules , in Black and white god damit, he should have known what happened . Like in the real World , without exactly enforching those rules there would only be Sodom and Gomorrah. You are so right. Blizzard and every authority has the full right to punish people who break their rules.  Simple as that.

 

 

 Have you read the actual text of the rule?  It is NOT black and white.  "Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image..."

That's not black and white: that's an arbitrary judgment call.  The rule doesn't even cite politics specifically.  

Struggling with the words in Blizzard's sole discretion, are you?

English not your first language?

 And people don't feel "Blizzard's sole discretion" was an ethical or moral decision.  Pretty simple actually.  

Don't you guys have morals/ethics?

By imposing/projecting your own moral and ethical beliefs onto others you are showing you have no respect for them.

Which is basically what Blitzchung did.  The rules are B&W, and he said "Blizzard I don't give a chit about your rules.  MY interests are more important. It's all about ME.  I don't care how much revenue you might lose because of my actions.  I am special."  If this was a momentary loss of reason or a misunderstanding of some sort, an apology/explanation/clarification could have come out of his mouth in the three days that followed the incident.  It might have made a difference.

The organizations that run sporting events, whether they be small fries like Blizzard or giants like the NFL, have rules in place to protect their interests.  Because if a company is successful financially, they have an intense desire to remain doing so.  If fact, they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do so.  One of their rules is to prevent their participants from doing anything that might possibly damage their image.  Statements about matters of politics, people of a certain race/religion/sex/gender, etc - there are OFF LIMITS.  There is no upside, but a huge downside to having your participants spout off about whatever they feel like saying.  Therefore it is not permitted.

It's that simple.

If you can't understand this, try accepting it.

@Dunscot

He writes these long diatribes about every aspect of the game being designed with active malice.  Some of the theories are actually quite entertaining.

@Ehronatha

Did you really miss the sarcasm in WingsDude's post?  If you didn't, and I'm getting trolled, kudos to you.  But it sure sounds like you thought his comments were genuine.

I don't really think a lot productive has been added to this topic in the last 24 hrs, but I had to come back and note that Brian Kibler is one of the worst people to be holding up as someone with a reasonable stance on this whole thing.  I vividly remember him handing out bans for years straight to anyone who would suggest that maybe, possibly, we shouldn't be building the gallows to hang Trump over Russiagate.  THEN, when the Mueller report hit and the whole narrative was disproven, he bans at least 8 people that day for asking if he'd read the report, including two subscribers who had been subbed for multiple years.

None of this is to suggest he isn't fully within his rights in all of these actions, but I just can't keep a straight face as people venerate him for having some claim to wisdom on this topic.

It will be interesting to see whether Hearthstone actually takes a tangible hit in revenue this quarter.  After all the hubbub and rhetoric, it would be spectacularly embarrassing for the community to NOT have put its money where its mouth is.  In the past, however, the talk has rarely translated into any collective action with any bite behind it.

Despite my not being very impressed with the cause celeb this time around, I actually am rooting for those of you who want to see Blizzard take a hit.  Despite the shit some folks want to talk in their indecipherable rants, I DO want to see a community able to affect some change in the company that makes and maintains so many games I love.  BUT, it won't happen for you.  This will all be forgotten in plenty of time for sales to hike on the upcoming new expansion in December, UNLESS those of you who care do what it takes to make sure this is not forgotten.

Good luck.

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

@Dunscot

He writes these long diatribes about every aspect of the game being designed with active malice.  Some of the theories are actually quite entertaining.

@Ehronatha

Did you really miss the sarcasm in WingsDude's post?  If you didn't, and I'm getting trolled, kudos to you.  But it sure sounds like you thought his comments were genuine.

 

 

I don't really think a lot productive has been added to this topic in the last 24 hrs, but I had to come back and note that Brian Kibler is one of the worst people to be holding up as someone with a reasonable stance on this whole thing.  I vividly remember him handing out bans for years straight to anyone who would suggest that maybe, possibly, we shouldn't be building the gallows to hang Trump over Russiagate.  THEN, when the Mueller report hit and the whole narrative was disproven, he bans at least 8 people that day for asking if he'd read the report, including two subscribers who had been subbed for multiple years.

None of this is to suggest he isn't fully within his rights in all of these actions, but I just can't keep a straight face as people venerate him for having some claim to wisdom on this topic.

 

It will be interesting to see whether Hearthstone actually takes a tangible hit in revenue this quarter.  After all the hubbub and rhetoric, it would be spectacularly embarrassing for the community to NOT have put its money where its mouth is.  In the past, however, the talk has rarely translated into any collective action with any bite behind it.

Despite my not being very impressed with the cause celeb this time around, I actually am rooting for those of you who want to see Blizzard take a hit.  Despite the shit some folks want to talk in their indecipherable rants, I DO want to see a community able to affect some change in the company that makes and maintains so many games I love.  BUT, it won't happen for you.  This will all be forgotten in plenty of time for sales to hike on the upcoming new expansion in December, UNLESS those of you who care do what it takes to make sure this is not forgotten.

Good luck.

 If Blizzard makes budget this quarter it will be a substantial disgrace for its gamers. Blizzard has already taken massive loses this year. However, if the trend continues it's not necessarily indicative of community response to HK . I don't feel like spending any money on Activision Blizzard until they fix management. It's easy for me to stay away. I've never been a fan of COD and haven't play WOW since it first came out. COD seems to be losing steam as a franchise and I think WOW subscriptions are taking a hit. Time will tell, but my guess is Blizzard continues its worst year financially.

A lot of people have this whole thing upside down, thinking its about Blitzchung's right to free speech and/or his political beliefs. It is not, it's about Blizzard's.  

In this situation Blizz was/is the responsible adult and they should have acted like it, punished Blitzchung fairly and released a statement that they have no political view whatsoever. Instead they chose a nuclear response, and in doing so made a very public, very clear political stand, siding with China against the people of Hong Kong. 

How anyone can defend Blizzard in this is beyond me.  

Quote from Kwakdizzle >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Dunscot>>

I'm glad that this community is so critical of Blizzard's decision, even when some of it goes too far or in the wrong direction for my taste. But I hope some people will take this incidence to reconsider what kind of climate they have established here.

Despite my previous comment, if the situation improves and everything goes back to normal, I promise to change my attitude in the forum and this time is for real. I have to admit that sometimes things really get out of control. Considering I have been a very active user for more than four years and the fact I like to make some jokes here and there when it's not really adequate, I'm guilty of that, just like many others too. I'm really sorry if you have not feel comfortable posting here in the past, I hope others change their attitude from now on too. :)

 Wow Sherman I've never seen you be so wholesome before :)

I always knew that if a post was from you I would be amused or triggered. I'm glad we have your internet powers on our side in this discussion!

Hehe, thank you very much!!! I'm very happy for having made this decision!!! :)

Quote from xskarma >>

Blizzard announced an adjustment in the Blitzchung affair, check news article: https://www.hearthpwn.com/news/6994-blizzard-adjusts-and-explains-decision-on

Such a bad speech for such a hot topic, who the hell advises these people??? They really don't know how to reach the community (we have seen this problem several times already) and everything they say feels so empty, lacking any kind of emotion. The worst part is they didn't learn anything from Ben Brode either.

All of this looks so terrible. It doesn't seem like things are going to improve, but to go downhill maybe... :(

Quote from Dunscot >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

 Well then, mr. well though through, nuanced, fatherly figure,

I applaud your impeccable comment. I'm not sure what you are trying to say and to whom. If you are talking about people commenting here, you must know by now that the comments are a reflection of who and what Blizzard is. And what is provoked has its petrification here.

Like China as a country, Blizzard is an authoritarian company that show little effort to be friendly and open. People sense that. Everything is reasoned from a marketing perspective and psychological maipulation just to play their games and as for Hearthstone concerned to buy their packs. People sense that. 

What makes things worse is the pretence of the good. In Hearthstone they talk "balance changes", while you know there is non. They print cards that have the feel of unfairness, and  are skill-killing (zephrys). The game is overly aggressive. They don't give skill the place it deserves. Diversity is a problem. Everything they do is to provoke emotions. And emotions buys packs. There is a tension here. Like something, but it comes with a prize of the feeling of unfairness. People sense that. They become angry. 

The only good thing that they do is make games that people love. But their likebility is zero to non. The are seclusive, you must assume RNG is not rigged. That's why debate seems to be less civil, arguments are poor, people snap at each other. The Hearthstone community is an unhappy community. There's a reason for that. Look at the Tesla-community, or the Apple- community. Most consumers are happy there.

Blizzard lives of polarization. The reflection of that can be seen on fora like these. So don't try to make things better that needs fixing elsewhere.

 

 So, you think that all hostility here comes from Blizzard's product design? Sorry, I'm not buying that. You are still responsible for your own behavior, which includes giving me a sarcastic title for no reason. And there are still enough people on this board who demonstrate that you can play this game without becoming uncivil.

What and who was I talking about? Well, you just gave a good example. In your picture, Blizzard is essentially the pure evil, an authoritarian company that lives on controversy and spurs it knowingly, all with the goal of making money - that kind of characterization would be the setup for a very simple world view, in which every person is either good (opposing Blizzard) or evil (not doing that). That would give you a great reason to not consider any opinion you would not agree with (since they are "evil"), and coming at me (you know, telling me to waste my energy elsewhere) on the assumption that I might take the wind out of your wings. Such rhetoric is, as I said, not in the sense of free speech, that you are (perhaps) trying to fight for here.

And make no mistake, a problematic debate culture is something worth fixing regardless of what goes on in the world. If nothing else can be achieved, I at least want to talk to people who consider their words, even when in anger.

By the way, funny that you mention Tesla as an example for a company with happy customers. I mean, I'm not one of them, but I'd think their happiness goes down a little if their car manufacturer is getting close to bankruptcy, partially because of cars (the Model S) that sometimes go up in flames for no obvious reason.

The lure and pressure of being found nice and friendly towards Big Brother is watching you -- Blizzard is on the rise. But there is no need to defend Blizzard with the call to civility on the forum. It won't help.

People are unhappy not for game design, but card design. Many threads are made to discuss expansions, cards, Polarization is Blizzards way to keep you posting. Unfair card design creates anger, especially when the so called, I know - you don't know, come here and defend any unfairness smacked in your face to show-off their 'insight' in the ' wonderful' wisdom of card designers. Yes Blizzards in the business of creating controversy, odd as it may seem is designed to buy even more packs. 

It's like the impeachment procedure against D. Trump. Polarization energizes his base to re-elect him. That's how it works. Reason and civility is far far away from home. What you see in US politics is exactly what happens on this forum. Truth, fairness, civility all gone created by those bandwagon pundits having interest in creating havoc.

Now this controversy with Bltzchung has gone too far. Even reduction of punishment remains a slap in the face of core values which made Blizzard successful in the first place. Better would have been to ask Blitzchung not to do this anymore because a tournament is not the place nor platform for political acton. That would have increased the reasonability, discussion and civility in the community you seem to be asking for. The next time everyone would have found it reasonable and fair to expel him. Instead an immediate China-style punishment. What goes around comes around.

Reasonability and civility is created, not ask for.

Calling for civility even in the context of the revised decision is a call for accepting the unfairness and harsh authoritarian style of Blizzard. It won't help. I'm amazed you don't see the condition and requirements for a healthy debate culture.

Quote from Lulchina >>

I will just quote myself here:

This is good. I mean, for those of you who are still outraged, what the fuck were you expecting? Were you seriously expecting them to throw their business plans under the bus and say ''yea, we did it because of China lol'' don't be fucking naive. Given the circumstances, even if the apology was sloppy written, they did the best that they could in a given situation:

- The player still broke the rules so a ban is still in order but cutting it to 6 months seems quite fair

- The casters who had goaded him into saying it are no longer fired, they got their livelihoods back and they are suspended for 6 months

- The winner got to keep his hard earned money

In no reality is this not fair.

No, I wouldn't have recommended them to say they did it because of China, that would have put them in another huge trouble, but the amount of bullshit written around what it seems to be their vision: "to bring the world together through epic entertainment" made me lost the few faith I had in them. Blizzard's president insists they are still commited to their values (Think Globally, Lead Responsibly, and especially, Every Voice Matters) which is 100% false, and instead of avoiding the topic, because their values are too idealistic, impractical and above all else completly unrealistic for what a  video game company these days can do without starting a media war with very little chance of winning (at least for good) that could seriously affect all involved professionaly and personally, he tried to demostrate at Blizzard they are just a bunch of very nice people full of values in a poor manner while trying to confuse the audience with constant incosistencies.

These people will continue lying blatantly to people even in the face of armageddon, without any sign of remorse and without any clear change of attitude towards the future. These people are nothing else than a bunch of terrible liars full of fear that constantly understimate others and treat all of them like idiots.

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

I will just quote myself here:

This is good. I mean, for those of you who are still outraged, what the fuck were you expecting? Were you seriously expecting them to throw their business plans under the bus and say ''yea, we did it because of China lol'' don't be fucking naive. Given the circumstances, even if the apology was sloppy written, they did the best that they could in a given situation:

- The player still broke the rules so a ban is still in order but cutting it to 6 months seems quite fair

- The casters who had goaded him into saying it are no longer fired, they got their livelihoods back and they are suspended for 6 months

- The winner got to keep his hard earned money

In no reality is this not fair.

No, I wouldn't have recommended them to say they did it because of China, that would have put them in another huge trouble, but the amount of bullshit written around what it seems to be their vision: "to bring the world together through epic entertainment" made me lost the few faith I had in them. Blizzard's president insists they are still commited to their values (Think Globally, Lead Responsibly, and especially, Every Voice Matters) which is 100% false, and instead of avoiding the topic, because their values are too idealistic, impractical and above all else completly unrealistic for what a  video game company these days can do without starting a media war with very little chance of winning (at least for good) that could seriously affect all involved professionaly and personally, he tried to demostrate at Blizzard they are just a bunch of very nice people full of values in a poor manner while trying to confuse the audience with constant incosistencies.

These people will continue lying blatantly to people even in the face of armageddon, without any sign of remorse and without any clear change of attitude towards the future. These people are nothing else than a bunch of terrible liars full of fear that constantly understimate others and treat all of them like idiots.

 Ok, what would you have done in his place?

Hehe, just give me some time to write what I would have said instead, this is going to be a lot of fun!!! :D :D :D

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

I will just quote myself here:

This is good. I mean, for those of you who are still outraged, what the fuck were you expecting? Were you seriously expecting them to throw their business plans under the bus and say ''yea, we did it because of China lol'' don't be fucking naive. Given the circumstances, even if the apology was sloppy written, they did the best that they could in a given situation:

- The player still broke the rules so a ban is still in order but cutting it to 6 months seems quite fair

- The casters who had goaded him into saying it are no longer fired, they got their livelihoods back and they are suspended for 6 months

- The winner got to keep his hard earned money

In no reality is this not fair.

No, I wouldn't have recommended them to say they did it because of China, that would have put them in another huge trouble, but the amount of bullshit written around what it seems to be their vision: "to bring the world together through epic entertainment" made me lost the few faith I had in them. Blizzard's president insists they are still commited to their values (Think Globally, Lead Responsibly, and especially, Every Voice Matters) which is 100% false, and instead of avoiding the topic, because their values are too idealistic, impractical and above all else completly unrealistic for what a  video game company these days can do without starting a media war with very little chance of winning (at least for good) that could seriously affect all involved professionaly and personally, he tried to demostrate at Blizzard they are just a bunch of very nice people full of values in a poor manner while trying to confuse the audience with constant incosistencies.

These people will continue lying blatantly to people even in the face of armageddon, without any sign of remorse and without any clear change of attitude towards the future. These people are nothing else than a bunch of terrible liars full of fear that constantly understimate others and treat all of them like idiots.

 Ok, what would you have done in his place?

Hehe, just give me some time to write what I would have said instead, this is going to be a lot of fun!!! :D :D :D

 Hey, as long as your keep in realistic and backed up with arguments take your time and go wild :P

Ok, I have finished. :) I used the original one as a reference, but this one is much shorter and much more concise (although I admit it can be improved). Here we go:

Dear Community,

We at Blizzard are fully sorry for the subsquent events to the Hearthstone Grandmasters tournament this past weekend. On Monday, we made the decision to take action against the professional Hearthstone player and tournament winner Wai Chung, also known as blitzchung, and towards the two shoutcasters, Virtual and Mr. Yee, after Chung shared his position and views about what's happening in Hong Kong on our official braodcast channel.

Thanks to you, we changed our minds and realized there was injustice in our actions, considering the punishment was too harsh. That said, we still believe some kind of action towards them is appropiate, because our platform is not made for political propaganda. The reason is simple: we are just a video game company, and while we, just like most people out there, want everyone's point of view to be listened and respected, we can't allow our corporation image to suffer this kind of damage, but especially, we can't put at risk our employees professional career for being stuck to political activities in which they are not involved.

We now believe that blitzchung should receive his prizing and suspending him for six months is more fair. With regards to the casters, remember their purpose is to keep the event focused on the tournament, which didn't happen here, and so, we are setting their suspension to six months as well, instead of completely firing them from the company.

In the future, we will probably be more severe if a similar situation takes places, mostly because our employees all around the world are our first priority and we can't allow them to feel or being harmed by third party actions.

Thank you for your patience with us as always, we appreciate all of you a lot. You make us grow day by day both professionally and personally and that is invaluable. Again, thanks for everything, we hope you find our actions and the reasons behind them completely fair and reasonable.

Sincerely,

Sherman1986
President of Blizzard Entertainment 

XD XD XD