Hearthpwn

I'm glad I can finally post this gif I made one year ago without being called a troll or something like that... :D :D :D

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Lulchina stayed out of it long enough for me to become the antiChrist of the thread for daring to point out a hole or two in the story, and now what are you supposed to call him?  No truer evil has been seen in this world, I'm sure.

I agree with whoever called out the "fake outrage" comment.  There's no particular reason to believe most of these guys are being disingenuous, nor is that required for the argument I'm trying to make.

I will say one thing by way of slight apology:  I would never have believed that the amount of publicity towards this story would ever have been generated thru a Hearthstone tournament.  Nevertheless, it is clear those of you who set out to make some noise have clearly succeeded.  I don't know yet if there's anything material to come out of it, but you got farther (further?) than I expected you could.

It's going to be interesting to see if any of the other Asia-Pacific players feel the need to say or do something in protest of Blitzchung's treatment this weekend for the GM series.  I hope no one else loses their career over it, but everyone has to decide how best to fight the bullshit of the world.

 C'mon Trump, true evil is a bit harsh :P

My main point still stands: the rules were broken and the punishment was given, all is right. Was the punishment harsh? Personally, I would still ban him but I wouldn't take away his winnings. He earned that money fair and square. Fair is fair. If getting punished for breaking the rules is fair then keeping your earned money is fair too. No need to be a hypocrite.

There is a misunderstanding among children that I support China. Let me be clear on this: I couldn't care less about China. I don't agree with their politics and that is where involvement of any kind with it ends. I care about this situation that we have here and nothing beyond that.

I fully support Blizzard's decision and right to execute a punishment although I agree that it is too severe. This has nothing to do with being ''a blind fanboy'' or something, if it were any other video game company, literally any other, in the exact same situation I'd support them in it. It is easy to look at the situation from an emotional stance but look at it from another point of view: IF Blizzard didn't ban him then what would the consequences for it be? First off, nobody would talk about Blizzard supporting HK because there wouldn't be as much attention to it if they just didn't do anything. Second, butthurt China lashes out and now you need to ask yourself the following question: what about Blizzard's employees in China? Worse, what about Chinese Blizzard's employees in China? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself what happens to them if their country sees them as taking the side of HK? Next, China bans all Blizzard games. Do you think that we're the only ones finding enjoyment in them? What about all other Chinese casters and pro players? What about other normal people who just play these games? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself that? Blizzard not doing anything will look as if they stand with ''the enemy'' and millions of people would get ''caught in the crossfire'' with some, chinese employees, probably facing some really fucked up consequences and all for what, for one kid saying something somewhere where he KNEW that he shouldn't do so and that it will have consequences for other people besides him?

 You aren't wrong, but if you do the right thing and that causes someone else to harm someone else, you aren't morally culpable at all.

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Hooghout>>

And here's the thing. These people who talk about 'fake outrage' are fundamentally the reason why Blizzard can be that harsh. These people are morally responsible for what Blizzard was able to do. Like Donald Trump can do what is doing....because his base supports him. He can be repulsive, because his base is repulsive.

I guess I'm a repulsive person then... XD XD XD

 If you think I was referring to you... so be it.  But you are too playful to even be a nominee. Kinda puppy.

Quote from Hooghout >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Hooghout>>

And here's the thing. These people who talk about 'fake outrage' are fundamentally the reason why Blizzard can be that harsh. These people are morally responsible for what Blizzard was able to do. Like Donald Trump can do what is doing....because his base supports him. He can be repulsive, because his base is repulsive.

I guess I'm a repulsive person then... XD XD XD

 If you think I was referring to you... so be it.  But you are too playful to even be a nominee. Kinda puppy.

I will take that as a compliment... XD

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Murolith >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Lulchina stayed out of it long enough for me to become the antiChrist of the thread for daring to point out a hole or two in the story, and now what are you supposed to call him?  No truer evil has been seen in this world, I'm sure.

I agree with whoever called out the "fake outrage" comment.  There's no particular reason to believe most of these guys are being disingenuous, nor is that required for the argument I'm trying to make.

I will say one thing by way of slight apology:  I would never have believed that the amount of publicity towards this story would ever have been generated thru a Hearthstone tournament.  Nevertheless, it is clear those of you who set out to make some noise have clearly succeeded.  I don't know yet if there's anything material to come out of it, but you got farther (further?) than I expected you could.

It's going to be interesting to see if any of the other Asia-Pacific players feel the need to say or do something in protest of Blitzchung's treatment this weekend for the GM series.  I hope no one else loses their career over it, but everyone has to decide how best to fight the bullshit of the world.

 C'mon Trump, true evil is a bit harsh :P

My main point still stands: the rules were broken and the punishment was given, all is right. Was the punishment harsh? Personally, I would still ban him but I wouldn't take away his winnings. He earned that money fair and square. Fair is fair. If getting punished for breaking the rules is fair then keeping your earned money is fair too. No need to be a hypocrite.

There is a misunderstanding among children that I support China. Let me be clear on this: I couldn't care less about China. I don't agree with their politics and that is where involvement of any kind with it ends. I care about this situation that we have here and nothing beyond that.

I fully support Blizzard's decision and right to execute a punishment although I agree that it is too severe. This has nothing to do with being ''a blind fanboy'' or something, if it were any other video game company, literally any other, in the exact same situation I'd support them in it. It is easy to look at the situation from an emotional stance but look at it from another point of view: IF Blizzard didn't ban him then what would the consequences for it be? First off, nobody would talk about Blizzard supporting HK because there wouldn't be as much attention to it if they just didn't do anything. Second, butthurt China lashes out and now you need to ask yourself the following question: what about Blizzard's employees in China? Worse, what about Chinese Blizzard's employees in China? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself what happens to them if their country sees them as taking the side of HK? Next, China bans all Blizzard games. Do you think that we're the only ones finding enjoyment in them? What about all other Chinese casters and pro players? What about other normal people who just play these games? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself that? Blizzard not doing anything will look as if they stand with ''the enemy'' and millions of people would get ''caught in the crossfire'' with some, chinese employees, probably facing some really fucked up consequences and all for what, for one kid saying something somewhere where he KNEW that he shouldn't do so and that it will have consequences for other people besides him?

 You aren't wrong, but if you do the right thing and that causes someone else to harm someone else, you aren't morally culpable at all.

 So you would throw all of your employees in China, people that you're actually responsible for, under the bus (some into prison because you bet that China would throw all of your Chinese workers into prisons) and sanction millions of people as your products get pulled out of the biggest marketplace in the world just so that you can say ''well, I was morally right!''. Nice morals!

 Wow that is pathetic why are you trying to protect Blizzard so hard? You know the China is governed by workers party their first literal job is to protect workers right as much as possible. So it is the Chinese government's job to protect Chinese Employees who works for Blizzard not vice versa. 

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Murolith >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Lulchina stayed out of it long enough for me to become the antiChrist of the thread for daring to point out a hole or two in the story, and now what are you supposed to call him?  No truer evil has been seen in this world, I'm sure.

I agree with whoever called out the "fake outrage" comment.  There's no particular reason to believe most of these guys are being disingenuous, nor is that required for the argument I'm trying to make.

I will say one thing by way of slight apology:  I would never have believed that the amount of publicity towards this story would ever have been generated thru a Hearthstone tournament.  Nevertheless, it is clear those of you who set out to make some noise have clearly succeeded.  I don't know yet if there's anything material to come out of it, but you got farther (further?) than I expected you could.

It's going to be interesting to see if any of the other Asia-Pacific players feel the need to say or do something in protest of Blitzchung's treatment this weekend for the GM series.  I hope no one else loses their career over it, but everyone has to decide how best to fight the bullshit of the world.

 C'mon Trump, true evil is a bit harsh :P

My main point still stands: the rules were broken and the punishment was given, all is right. Was the punishment harsh? Personally, I would still ban him but I wouldn't take away his winnings. He earned that money fair and square. Fair is fair. If getting punished for breaking the rules is fair then keeping your earned money is fair too. No need to be a hypocrite.

There is a misunderstanding among children that I support China. Let me be clear on this: I couldn't care less about China. I don't agree with their politics and that is where involvement of any kind with it ends. I care about this situation that we have here and nothing beyond that.

I fully support Blizzard's decision and right to execute a punishment although I agree that it is too severe. This has nothing to do with being ''a blind fanboy'' or something, if it were any other video game company, literally any other, in the exact same situation I'd support them in it. It is easy to look at the situation from an emotional stance but look at it from another point of view: IF Blizzard didn't ban him then what would the consequences for it be? First off, nobody would talk about Blizzard supporting HK because there wouldn't be as much attention to it if they just didn't do anything. Second, butthurt China lashes out and now you need to ask yourself the following question: what about Blizzard's employees in China? Worse, what about Chinese Blizzard's employees in China? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself what happens to them if their country sees them as taking the side of HK? Next, China bans all Blizzard games. Do you think that we're the only ones finding enjoyment in them? What about all other Chinese casters and pro players? What about other normal people who just play these games? Did you stop for a second to ask yourself that? Blizzard not doing anything will look as if they stand with ''the enemy'' and millions of people would get ''caught in the crossfire'' with some, chinese employees, probably facing some really fucked up consequences and all for what, for one kid saying something somewhere where he KNEW that he shouldn't do so and that it will have consequences for other people besides him?

 You aren't wrong, but if you do the right thing and that causes someone else to harm someone else, you aren't morally culpable at all.

 So you would throw all of your employees in China, people that you're actually responsible for, under the bus (some into prison because you bet that China would throw all of your Chinese workers into prisons) and sanction millions of people as your products get pulled out of the biggest marketplace in the world just so that you can say ''well, I was morally right!''. Nice morals!

Dude, you realize the fact something like that (what you described) could have happened only means Blizzard has obviously always been totally aware of that, don't you? That makes them even more despicable and they should have never had employees in China in the first place, considering how influential they have been on this side of the world, the hot topics they put into their games and the chances of something really bad happening... Playing with other people lives just for money is aborrent!!!

What a joke of a video game company they are... They deserve all our hate and even more!!!

C U Next Tuesday Blizzard!!!

South Park must be morally culpable for being banned in China apparently. Because they value democratic values above money. As if they banned themselves. You realize almost any other country can get criticized and not start banning and silencing left and right? Accepting that as fact and saying you shouldn't allow criticism because you'll deny millions of people hearthstone because it might be banned is forgetting that the banning itself is the result of an authoritian government. If we all accept that we can't criticized  china because of practical reasons, what kind of world are we accepting? Of course there will be consequences. But it's for a cause, dammit.

South parks apology for the China episode:

"Like the N.B.A., we welcome the Chinese censors into our homes and into our hearts. We too love money more than freedom and democracy. Xi doesn’t look just like Winnie the Pooh at all.”

Take a page out of their book. Principles first.

Quote from Kwakdizzle >>

South Park must be morally culpable for being banned in China apparently. Because they value democratic values above money. As if they banned themselves. You realize almost any other country can get criticized and not start banning and silencing left and right? Accepting that as fact and saying you shouldn't allow criticism because you'll deny millions of people hearthstone because it might be banned is forgetting that the banning itself is the result of an authoritian government. If we all accept that we can't criticized  china because of practical reasons, what kind of world are we accepting? Of course there will be consequences. But it's for a cause, dammit.

South parks apology for the China episode:

"Like the N.B.A., we welcome the Chinese censors into our homes and into our hearts. We too love money more than freedom and democracy. Xi doesn’t look just like Winnie the Pooh at all.”

Take a page out of their book. Principles first. 

The fact many people out there have always despised South Park for it's black humor and no sense (well, according to them ;)) and criticized their audience for several stupid reasons always annoyed me a bit. This "apology" (LOL XD) makes me feel really good. :)

……...…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

 I see your moral upbringing has been compromized and underdeveloped to such an extent that you are hiding behind:

1.   I don't give into outrage of the month
2.   Bad shit happens to people all the time
3.   Sorry, I'm not going to start pretending that I care now.
4.   Blizzard had every right to do what they did.
5.   there are real consequences to them not punishing the guy, 
6.   Blizzard doing what they did -> some bad PR but not actual consequences of worth.
7.   The China vs HK situation would't magically get worse due to Blizzards action.
8.   Keep being outraged and I'll still see you all when the next set drops.
9.   The rest of you are just outrage monkeys.

ad. 1  Good for you. You seem to be a very stable person.

ad. 2  That is not the point, is it?

ad. 3  Nobody expects you to.

ad. 4. Legally yes, But this is about the choice of punishment. And that was a moral choice. A choice to appease China and recognise them in their unfair power over people.

ad. 5. Severe consequences?  Some learning time for you buddy in the ethical field. I refer you to this article on CNN about the position of the NBA and their respons contrary to Bizzard. Even Donald Trump, yes Donald Trump -the ethics-free President doesn't agree with you. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/10/sport/popovich-donald-trump-kerr-nba-china-spt-intl/index.html

ad. 6.  This is called decisionism. Look it up. A leadership choice you should respect. This is the authoritarian  power argument. If you can't retaliate because I have the bigger gun, my actions are justified? You still have to learn a lot buddy. So If a come down to your house with my buddies and smack you in the face, my deed is justified you can do nothing about it? -  Please look for better arguments.

ad. 7.  Right. You see wrong doings and just walk by and keep silent because because you can't do nothing about it? Not keeping silent, even if there is no immediate change is what makes the world a better place. Once again, come to your house and punch your mother in the face togethe  with my buddies. You can do nothng about it. Still keeping silent? -  Please look for better arguments.

ad. 8.  ? There is no relation between playing the game and speaking out if  Blizzard f*cks-up

ad. 9.  Maybe you are the outrage monkey who is outraged over the outraged of others.

Btw guys forget about Honkong and Blitzchung Are you really okay with the fact that those companies impose Chinese censorship on you to please Chinese government?  will you let china decide what content you are going to see in the games in the future? are you okay with hearing things only approved by China? 

Quote from Lulchina >>

ad. 8.  ? There is no relation between playing the game and speaking out if  Blizzard f*cks-up

There is a relation where people come here and protest by saying that they will never play HS or any other Blizzard games ever again. I'm simply telling them to put their money where their mouth is. The fact that nobody did so besides Sherman tells you volumes on how much are these people willing to stick to their word and their decision regarding something as important as this.

 Is ad.8 the only point to respond to? What about the others? Please take your time.

All I can say is that blizzard is facing real pressure from the amount of displeasure being voiced. Hurting their numbers is better, quitting is better, not buying Chinese products is better, hell, going to Hong Kong is better. But I welcome the media outrage, because the pressure isn't imagined. I haven't quit and I don't intend to, and I apologize to those who want me and everyone to take the extra step, but it's practically the only game I play and there's a lot of time that has gone into my collection. I will, however, stop watching their twitch and will try to have discussions with my Chinese friends and family as well as people who simply aren't informed about the protest (I'm half Chinese but half Dutch and American raised, and I've been following the protests for a while and I'm happy that it took a game company screw up to bring this into the public discourse as much as it is now). And I'll try to keep the discussion alive.

I simply urge people to do what they're comfortable with. If you think what blizzard did is fine, fine. But I'm not for attacking people who oppose blizzard with faulty arguments. 

And to those who did quit and delete their accounts, you have my respect. 

Quote from Lulchina >>

ad. 8.  ? There is no relation between playing the game and speaking out if  Blizzard f*cks-up

There is a relation where people come here and protest by saying that they will never play HS or any other Blizzard games ever again. I'm simply telling them to put their money where their mouth is. The fact that nobody did so besides Sherman tells you volumes on how much are these people willing to stick to their word and their decision regarding something as important as this.

To be more precise, that is what I call fake outrage. The ''grrrrr Blizz I'm so mad that I will uninstall all of your stuff and never touch it again!!!! GRRRRR!!!!'' attitude.

I understand where you are coming from, but you have to considere people are not only angry with Blizzard this time, but also afraid of them, for several reasons. People usually have a hard time to demostrate some kind of weakness in front of others (even on the internet) and that is why almost no one wants to admit it, but gladly for me I can do it, so I think I should speak for some of them this time:

We are really afraid of this bastards (Blizzard and China's goverment), we are not going to support a company who represents a threat for ourselves and our beloved ones, a company that is totally against freedom of speech (considering how harsh was their response towards Blitzchung, there is no doubt about it), we are not going to risk exchanging everyone's safety for just for a bit of entertainment, we are not going to give much more power to our already powerful enemies in our own territory, because the future is uncertain and we really don't even know what could happen tomorrow...

Blizzard crossed the red line here, they literally sold their soul to the devil, becoming just as dangerous as the villains of their own games, which is funny and sad at the same time. Yeah, again, I'm terrified, and so are most people here, but we have to be brave and express ourselves against this with all our fury... And the only time one can be brave is when one is afraid (yeah, this last sentence is a quote from Game of Thrones :P).

There are a lot of chinese companies in our territory already, but the fact Blizzard is a huge american one makes it a thousand times more dangerous, because it could contamine our roots, and that would totally suck. They could propagate like a plague and spread their ideals to other ones, which would put us in a big trouble, threatening nothing more and nothing else than the most noble values of our own society.

Quote from Lulchina>>

Bad shit happens to people all the time yet no one here hasn't mentioned a word about any atrocity since...well, ever.  

That's because most of the time we only react to something like this when we are in danger (or someone we really care about is threatened), not random people out there. It's the hard truth, but the truth after all... Of course, there are exceptions to this, people who doesn't give a shit  about no one else (not even about themselves) and others who care about most people out there. Yeah, most of us are selfish bastards at our core, but that doesn't make us automatically evil, just...well... people... ;)