"In Hearthstone, some players do in fact get better outcomes from random effects more often than others, but it is because they have played toward those outcomes, not because of luck."
Are you saying 'luck' doesn't exist like thinking some people are luckier than others or are you actually trying to say that chance doesn't exist and totally random events like which cards you get from say Babbling Book is manipulated using voodoo magic by more skillful players? If it's the latter I recommend psychiatric help.
That is literally exactly the same as saying no one is any luckier than anyone else.
Bingo! The more you play the game, the law of large numbers dictate that you will have an equal amount of lucky and unlucky run. That is why beginners hate RNG because they just have a bad luck streak which will get better if they persevere.
In the end, because luck is not a factor in the long run, even a 1% skill in the game make a difference.
"In Hearthstone, some players do in fact get better outcomes from random effects more often than others, but it is because they have played toward those outcomes, not because of luck."
Are you saying 'luck' doesn't exist like thinking some people are luckier than others or are you actually trying to say that chance doesn't exist and totally random events like which cards you get from say Babbling Book is manipulated using voodoo magic by more skillful players? If it's the latter I recommend psychiatric help.
Obviously, random events occur. This is more about the perception some people have of consistently getting worse outcomes than those around them.
I'm saying there's no magical force called "luck" that some people have more of than others.
If you are consistently "unluckier" than you perceive other players to be, it's because they have skills that you lack in terms of "playing to their outs."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
My runs are getting better recently. Going 4-3, 10-3, 5-3, 8-3 is not a bad result for a guy that doesn't play arena except for events like me. However, in my losses, I cannot counter such Mass Hysteria from Priest. 1 AOE and it counters my whole carefully built board. Eventually, the Puzzle Box of Yogg Saron in Arena is totally BS. Using Luck to comeback from a loss battle seems dirty to me.
I love how people say that Hearthstone takes no skill and yet season after season you can consistently see the same top 10 legend players, or the players that make a new account and with their first 1-300 gold go infinite in arena. But yeah, no skill required. /sarcasm
As to address the OP's original topic, luck does play a role, both good and bad. If you play long enough, you're going to find yourself doing arena runs where you draft a pretty reasonable deck and you simply draw dead over and over, even though statistically it shouldn't be happening. It's rare but it does happen and there's simply nothing you can do about it. Of course, the opposite holds true as well where you'll have a lucky streak and happen to draw a perfect curve and perfect answers repeatedly, even though you were statistically unlikely to do so. Not to mention this holds true for literally everyone else that plays so while you may not have even realized it, you've almost certainly defeated players who simply drew a terrible hand who by all rights, had a better deck and was overall more skilled (and vice-versa). I can't tell you how many times I've lost to absolute terrible players that had no business winning because they were so bad. But, everyone that's played the game for more than a week has experienced this. It's just how the game works.
However, luck is not the deciding factor here. It's the person's individual skill that averages out the overall win/loss ratio for each player. With enough knowledge of the game, you can reliably go infinite in arena, and all it takes is for you to be above average. Honestly, that's it. Be an above average player. And this goes beyond just drafting a good deck or making the most out of your cards. It's also knowing all the classes, the general rarity of their draft buckets, reading your opponent and knowing what to play around and what not to and ultimately, doing all that better than the other player.
Thank you for your detailed answer. I am disappointed that many opponents have insane draws late game while I sit there and "enjoy" being destroyed by bad draws. How can this be improved?
I wonder how people can get such high-quality cards and can play those minions on curve while I can't. Can you guys suggest me a solution to match less lucky opponent?
Going by your question, you'd probably have a better chance of asking how to stop a dice from rolling random numbers when you just want it to roll a 6 every time.
That said, while Hearthstone (and Arena in particular) do involve an amount of fortune both in drafting, and in the game play itself, as others have pointed out, you can help improve your "luck" in the game by making better card choices, looking at what cards synergise better with the cards you've always drafted. For example, I recently played a guy who slammed Y'Saarj on the board. Now, some might say he was luckier than me, because he drafted an amazing legendary. However, it was a turn 10 play, when he was already facing lethal on the board from me. So that supposed luck didn't help in the end.
Drafting is a super-fine-art and it is certainly a difficult skill to master. I'm not that good at it myself; I rely more heavily on being able to win through trying to play my badly drafted deck as best as I can. That's my own experience. But some things to consider: - Don't just take the "shiny" card. It may look like the best pick but one of the others might be better suited to the deck you are building - Don't be greedy. Grabbing all the biggest, expensive minions you can see is fine if your opponent did the same, or has bad draw. But against any good drafted deck, you will be crushed in the early game - Learn to create a good tempo curve. let's face it: Arena is basically a Minion-Based brawl-fest. Unless you have an amazing luck-draft, you aren't going to be playing combo decks, and probably not much control either. The best decks are usually ones that stay on tempo and play to the curve.
Lastly, the skill-type of players in Arena is different to Constructed. in Constructed, you know what to expect from decks, yuo can predict cards, etc. In Arena, that's near-impossible, because there is no standard deck and the cards can be all sorts (barring the more commonly seen ones that you can predict). So you need to learn to be adaptable and to play to your strengths rather than trying to second guess the opponent.
I figure it out that my opponent tends to have such Tar Creeper, Plume Phoenix-like quality cards. I guess they picked a better deck than mine. Well, I must accept the fact and use my skill to outplay my opponent card quality. Eventually, thank you for your detailed reply. Have a good day. :)
Luck exists. Some ppl are born into life successful and beautiful while others arrive ugly mentally ill and poor. Deal with it and do your best with what youre given. We like to deny that luck exists because its offensive that fortune favors some more than others so we say it doesnt exist and stigmatize anyone who cries bad luck as a whiner. While I agree it is bad fashion whats worse is pretending something doesnt exist that clearly does.
Thank you for your detailed answer. I am disappointed that many opponents have insane draws late game while I sit there and "enjoy" being destroyed by bad draws. How can this be improved?
If this happens consistently, it means you are not drafting correctly.
You absolutely cannot simply take the card with the highest Arena tier rating every time. You have to consider your curve, early vs late game, card draw/generation, removal, and deck synergies. People with so-called "lucky draws" have done this, improving their chances of getting something useful at every stage of the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Simple tips who will let improve your game in arena (atleast u should get 5-3)
1. Control board. No board in your side - then u dead. U need to traide smart. u always need to have more minions in board than your enemy
2. Play on curve. I mean arena is about tempo - so play with minions who is almost same mana with stats like 3 3/4 or 4 3/3 same effect
3. 3 the best hero powers in arena is rogue, mage and warlock. Remember that.
4. Boardclear is amazing thing i arena. If u see it - choose that. example (hellfire, flamestrike, blizzard)
5, pick cards which you see the mostly in your enemy deck. example (Tar creeper, bone mare, fire plume pheonix, fungal mancer, fire fly)
6. the most important cards is between 2 - 6 mana. and of course u can pick some late game minions (Violet wurm, North sea craken and bog creeper) taunts good too.
Luck come from skills. Skills come from practice. Don't listen others if they don't want to help you.
First, you need to learn, understand, and internalize the fact that there is no such thing as luck.
Once you have accepted that your decisions have led to your outcomes, you can focus on making better decisions, and the skills needed to do so.
the force is strong with this one......you just have to laugh..
arena is nothing but curvestone...draft so that you get enough shit to play each turn and take the best card that synergizes with the cards you have. most of the geniuses here use that auto draft picker for them because they are geniuses and cant be bothered to pick the cards themeselves. I get 5-9 wins with the lamest curve out bullshit cards all the time. it usually takes me 3-5 days to even complete an arena because the boredom comes quick. Arena is pretty dam easy to pick. Stop overthinking it. play shit on curve keep removals to push damage and win dude. This game isnt rocket science.
There is such a thing as luck. Some people are just luckier than others. Maybe God loves them more but if you really study trends you do notice that certain ppl have more fortunate returns than others do. Sorry math heads but it's always been the case.
Luck exists. Some ppl are born into life successful and beautiful while others arrive ugly mentally ill and poor. Deal with it and do your best with what youre given. We like to deny that luck exists because its offensive that fortune favors some more than others so we say it doesnt exist and stigmatize anyone who cries bad luck as a whiner. While I agree it is bad fashion whats worse is pretending something doesnt exist that clearly does.
"Some people are just luckier than others"
"Maybe God loves them more but if you really study trends you do notice that certain ppl have more fortunate returns than others do."
"Some ppl are born into life successful and beautiful while others arrive ugly mentally ill and poor"
Wow, the envy is strong on this one... Even when you said "Deal with it and do your best with what youre given", it's pretty obvious these are recurrent thoughts in your mind, considering you posted almost the same thing two times already on this short thread.
These kind of thoughts will never help anyone to improve at Hearthstone, neither at life. Stop looking and comparing yourself with other people and live your own life without being a nuisance to others, thank you. And no, life is not about doing your best with what you are given, it's about trying to improve and be a better version of yourself day by day. Sorry, but this only makes you look like a very toxic person and you are not helping anyone.
Luck doesn't exists, only chance, and such a thing applies while playing Hearthstone too. OP very probably needs to learn to draft better when things are in his favour while considering every factor while do so.
My results have been better with 6+ wins arena. But a 2W-3L run just shut my streak with really bad drafting pool. How can I pick better cards if it offers me low quality cards. I just need to solve this problem.
My results have been better with 6+ wins arena. But a 2W-3L run just shut my streak with really bad drafting pool. How can I pick better cards if it offers me low quality cards. I just need to solve this problem.
Thank you for your detailed answer. I am disappointed that many opponents have insane draws late game while I sit there and "enjoy" being destroyed by bad draws. How can this be improved?
If this happens consistently, it means you are not drafting correctly.
You absolutely cannot simply take the card with the highest Arena tier rating every time. You have to consider your curve, early vs late game, card draw/generation, removal, and deck synergies. People with so-called "lucky draws" have done this, improving their chances of getting something useful at every stage of the game.
ConCuThanKy1292, drafting in arena is not just about picking good quality cards and avoiding bad ones, that is the most common mistake many players make while playing this game mode. You need to make good use of the poor quality cards you are offered, sometimes even picking them over high quality ones, and FortyDust explained that well.
I know that having the synergy instead of just picking the high quality card is best for business. But it seems that my op cards is out-valuing mine. Really hard to beat those good tempo minions.
"In Hearthstone, some players do in fact get better outcomes from random effects more often than others, but it is because they have played toward those outcomes, not because of luck."
Are you saying 'luck' doesn't exist like thinking some people are luckier than others or are you actually trying to say that chance doesn't exist and totally random events like which cards you get from say Babbling Book is manipulated using voodoo magic by more skillful players? If it's the latter I recommend psychiatric help.
Bingo! The more you play the game, the law of large numbers dictate that you will have an equal amount of lucky and unlucky run. That is why beginners hate RNG because they just have a bad luck streak which will get better if they persevere.
In the end, because luck is not a factor in the long run, even a 1% skill in the game make a difference.
Vote for my Card Design Submission! I love this one!
Obviously, random events occur. This is more about the perception some people have of consistently getting worse outcomes than those around them.
I'm saying there's no magical force called "luck" that some people have more of than others.
If you are consistently "unluckier" than you perceive other players to be, it's because they have skills that you lack in terms of "playing to their outs."
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
My runs are getting better recently. Going 4-3, 10-3, 5-3, 8-3 is not a bad result for a guy that doesn't play arena except for events like me.
However, in my losses, I cannot counter such Mass Hysteria from Priest. 1 AOE and it counters my whole carefully built board. Eventually, the Puzzle Box of Yogg Saron in Arena is totally BS. Using Luck to comeback from a loss battle seems dirty to me.
draft the darkness! i did it and went 11-2 as my only legendary :)
No skill heartstone, just money and money fuck blizzard
Signature move
I love how people say that Hearthstone takes no skill and yet season after season you can consistently see the same top 10 legend players, or the players that make a new account and with their first 1-300 gold go infinite in arena. But yeah, no skill required. /sarcasm
As to address the OP's original topic, luck does play a role, both good and bad. If you play long enough, you're going to find yourself doing arena runs where you draft a pretty reasonable deck and you simply draw dead over and over, even though statistically it shouldn't be happening. It's rare but it does happen and there's simply nothing you can do about it. Of course, the opposite holds true as well where you'll have a lucky streak and happen to draw a perfect curve and perfect answers repeatedly, even though you were statistically unlikely to do so. Not to mention this holds true for literally everyone else that plays so while you may not have even realized it, you've almost certainly defeated players who simply drew a terrible hand who by all rights, had a better deck and was overall more skilled (and vice-versa). I can't tell you how many times I've lost to absolute terrible players that had no business winning because they were so bad. But, everyone that's played the game for more than a week has experienced this. It's just how the game works.
However, luck is not the deciding factor here. It's the person's individual skill that averages out the overall win/loss ratio for each player. With enough knowledge of the game, you can reliably go infinite in arena, and all it takes is for you to be above average. Honestly, that's it. Be an above average player. And this goes beyond just drafting a good deck or making the most out of your cards. It's also knowing all the classes, the general rarity of their draft buckets, reading your opponent and knowing what to play around and what not to and ultimately, doing all that better than the other player.
Thank you for your detailed answer. I am disappointed that many opponents have insane draws late game while I sit there and "enjoy" being destroyed by bad draws. How can this be improved?
Going by your question, you'd probably have a better chance of asking how to stop a dice from rolling random numbers when you just want it to roll a 6 every time.
That said, while Hearthstone (and Arena in particular) do involve an amount of fortune both in drafting, and in the game play itself, as others have pointed out, you can help improve your "luck" in the game by making better card choices, looking at what cards synergise better with the cards you've always drafted.
For example, I recently played a guy who slammed Y'Saarj on the board. Now, some might say he was luckier than me, because he drafted an amazing legendary. However, it was a turn 10 play, when he was already facing lethal on the board from me. So that supposed luck didn't help in the end.
Drafting is a super-fine-art and it is certainly a difficult skill to master. I'm not that good at it myself; I rely more heavily on being able to win through trying to play my badly drafted deck as best as I can. That's my own experience. But some things to consider:
- Don't just take the "shiny" card. It may look like the best pick but one of the others might be better suited to the deck you are building
- Don't be greedy. Grabbing all the biggest, expensive minions you can see is fine if your opponent did the same, or has bad draw. But against any good drafted deck, you will be crushed in the early game
- Learn to create a good tempo curve. let's face it: Arena is basically a Minion-Based brawl-fest. Unless you have an amazing luck-draft, you aren't going to be playing combo decks, and probably not much control either. The best decks are usually ones that stay on tempo and play to the curve.
Lastly, the skill-type of players in Arena is different to Constructed. in Constructed, you know what to expect from decks, yuo can predict cards, etc. In Arena, that's near-impossible, because there is no standard deck and the cards can be all sorts (barring the more commonly seen ones that you can predict).
So you need to learn to be adaptable and to play to your strengths rather than trying to second guess the opponent.
Stop dumping all of your experience points into charisma and invest some into your luck stat.
I figure it out that my opponent tends to have such Tar Creeper, Plume Phoenix-like quality cards. I guess they picked a better deck than mine.
Well, I must accept the fact and use my skill to outplay my opponent card quality. Eventually, thank you for your detailed reply. Have a good day. :)
Luck exists. Some ppl are born into life successful and beautiful while others arrive ugly mentally ill and poor. Deal with it and do your best with what youre given. We like to deny that luck exists because its offensive that fortune favors some more than others so we say it doesnt exist and stigmatize anyone who cries bad luck as a whiner. While I agree it is bad fashion whats worse is pretending something doesnt exist that clearly does.
Git gud
If this happens consistently, it means you are not drafting correctly.
You absolutely cannot simply take the card with the highest Arena tier rating every time. You have to consider your curve, early vs late game, card draw/generation, removal, and deck synergies. People with so-called "lucky draws" have done this, improving their chances of getting something useful at every stage of the game.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Simple tips who will let improve your game in arena (atleast u should get 5-3)
1. Control board. No board in your side - then u dead. U need to traide smart. u always need to have more minions in board than your enemy
2. Play on curve. I mean arena is about tempo - so play with minions who is almost same mana with stats like 3 3/4 or 4 3/3 same effect
3. 3 the best hero powers in arena is rogue, mage and warlock. Remember that.
4. Boardclear is amazing thing i arena. If u see it - choose that. example (hellfire, flamestrike, blizzard)
5, pick cards which you see the mostly in your enemy deck. example (Tar creeper, bone mare, fire plume pheonix, fungal mancer, fire fly)
6. the most important cards is between 2 - 6 mana. and of course u can pick some late game minions (Violet wurm, North sea craken and bog creeper) taunts good too.
Luck come from skills. Skills come from practice. Don't listen others if they don't want to help you.
I sometimes play arena and thats what i remember.
You should check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8rmB7ePTZ0
P.S Sorry for grammar. My english not native and it's sometimes to hard explain thoughts in another language. Goodl luck!
the force is strong with this one......you just have to laugh..
arena is nothing but curvestone...draft so that you get enough shit to play each turn and take the best card that synergizes with the cards you have. most of the geniuses here use that auto draft picker for them because they are geniuses and cant be bothered to pick the cards themeselves. I get 5-9 wins with the lamest curve out bullshit cards all the time. it usually takes me 3-5 days to even complete an arena because the boredom comes quick. Arena is pretty dam easy to pick. Stop overthinking it. play shit on curve keep removals to push damage and win dude. This game isnt rocket science.
"Some people are just luckier than others"
"Maybe God loves them more but if you really study trends you do notice that certain ppl have more fortunate returns than others do."
"Some ppl are born into life successful and beautiful while others arrive ugly mentally ill and poor"
Wow, the envy is strong on this one... Even when you said "Deal with it and do your best with what youre given", it's pretty obvious these are recurrent thoughts in your mind, considering you posted almost the same thing two times already on this short thread.
These kind of thoughts will never help anyone to improve at Hearthstone, neither at life. Stop looking and comparing yourself with other people and live your own life without being a nuisance to others, thank you. And no, life is not about doing your best with what you are given, it's about trying to improve and be a better version of yourself day by day. Sorry, but this only makes you look like a very toxic person and you are not helping anyone.
Luck doesn't exists, only chance, and such a thing applies while playing Hearthstone too. OP very probably needs to learn to draft better when things are in his favour while considering every factor while do so.
My results have been better with 6+ wins arena. But a 2W-3L run just shut my streak with really bad drafting pool. How can I pick better cards if it offers me low quality cards. I just need to solve this problem.
You are clearly not following FortyDust advice:
ConCuThanKy1292, drafting in arena is not just about picking good quality cards and avoiding bad ones, that is the most common mistake many players make while playing this game mode. You need to make good use of the poor quality cards you are offered, sometimes even picking them over high quality ones, and FortyDust explained that well.
Hi bro, this is my 3 losses that I encountered in that run:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/QE25jVmjz9tmrtcGqCPmDd
https://hsreplay.net/replay/YpomGJCaqwT2cEhHZm9Pke
https://hsreplay.net/replay/tjidbLp3Z94dML4WfrQfzD
I know that having the synergy instead of just picking the high quality card is best for business. But it seems that my op cards is out-valuing mine. Really hard to beat those good tempo minions.