Hearthpwn

Quote from Battenberg >>

As mentioned I think small amounts of mana cheating are ok when they come with some kind of requirement or drawback. For example there's a plethora of 5 mana 8/8s in HS's history with a drawback and cards like mountain giant only get particularly cheap when you meet a, typically inconvenient, requirement of some kind.

That's fine imo, the problem lies in cards that give too big a benefit at too low a cost (cost referring more to something other than mana). For example Possessed Lackey and Skull of the Man'ari's only requirements were that you had demons in your deck/ hand and it was pretty easy to both strengthen their effect and mitigate how much you weakened your deck by only playing a few VERY powerful demons in the deck. The pre-nerf conjurer's calling could get 16/16 in stats out for as little as 6 mana depending on how many cards they played/ how much of their draw they found. Pre-nerf Luna's had the drawback of losing your turn 5 but unless you were against a fast aggro deck that's easily survivable for such a massive upside. Wild Growth could put you 1 mana ahead of your opponent for multiple turns for just 2 mana and a card from your hand. Mysterious Challenger could simultaneously get a 6/6 and 5 extra mana of secret value out for 6 mana as well as somewhat negating the negative requirement of having a lot of secrets your deck by thinning the 'bad' cards out for you.

You might notice all of these examples have been nerfed with the exception of 2 because Blizzard also felt they were too strong. The other 2 either had counterplay available already (weapon removal for Skull) or they introduced a hard counter of sorts (Secret Eater for MC which even directly references it in its voice line). In fact the presence and power of Mysterious Challenger, at least imo, contributed significantly to the introduction of standard format in order to make maintaining game balance easier.

That's all well and good but what about "mana cheat" cards that never saw any changes? Well off the top of my head I can think of a few that are in the game that people don't typically feel are an issue currently. I put the requirement/ cost in brackets after each one, I'm sure you can tell what's what.

-0 mana 7/5 divine shield lifesteal rush (play 25 mana's worth of spells first)
-7 mana 42/42 in stats (your deck and board must both be empty)
-10 mana deathrattle: win (your deck, board, and hand must be empty)
-0 mana 7/8 taunt (play 12 mana's worth of spells first)
-1 mana draw 2, 2 mana 3/4 rush minion (have a card from a different class in your hand)
-10 mana 5/5 battlecry: summon 60 mana's worth of stats (have 6 x 10 mana spells in hand)
-2 mana 4/5 (this minion can't attack)
-0 mana 3/3 taunt (have a weapon with 3+ attack equipped)
-1 mana draw 3 cards (discard those cards at the end of your turn)
-3 mana 2/6 taunt (discard your cheapest card or have no other cards in hand)
-9 mana 8/8 deal 15 damage (your opponent must have taken no hp damage before playing this)
-2 mana draw up to 8 cards (have 8 damaged friendly characters)
-2 mana a minion deathrattle: summon a random 8, 9, or 10 drop (have a 7, 8, or 9 drop alive on board)
-7 mana 4/4 battlecry: summon any 2 minions in the game (have those 2 minions in play and adjacent on your side of the board already)

These are all effects that exist in the game at that mana cost but the important thing is that the drawbacks and/ or requirements are proportional to the impact they have. A 0 mana 3/3 taunt that typically comes out turn 3 or 4 isn't game breaking so it has a fairly mild requirement of just having a powerful enough weapon equipped (and if you don't do this it's just an extremely sub-par 4 drop). At the opposite end of the spectrum a minion with deathrattle: win needs serious costs and requirements so that's what it has.

My point being that just because a card does more than it should for the mana you pay does not necessarily make it overpowered or gamebreaking. Arguably the deckbuilding side of Hearthstone is all about finding ways to have your cards work together to be more impactful than they normally would be. To broadly say mana cheating cards are bad and shouldn't exist is daft. Perhaps pick a more specific area of mana cheating or, better yet, highlight which cards you believe are an issue and maybe examine the similarities they have.

 These are either not very likely or more late game. Fleshaper+mutate/lackey is quite common and can win/lose your game by turn 3/4

Quote from Battenberg >>

-9 mana 8/8 deal 15 damage (your opponent must have taken no hp damage before playing this)
-2 mana a minion deathrattle: summon a random 8, 9, or 10 drop (have a 7, 8, or 9 drop alive on board)

-0 mana 3/3 taunt (have a weapon with 3+ attack equipped)

 I got all the references except those 2 what are they?

on the 0 mana 3/3 taunt i think it should be 4+ since unless if im reading it wrong 3+ include 3 so its would cost 1 mana.

Quote from B4timer >>

Quote from Battenberg >>

-9 mana 8/8 deal 15 damage (your opponent must have taken no hp damage before playing this)
-2 mana a minion deathrattle: summon a random 8, 9, or 10 drop (have a 7, 8, or 9 drop alive on board)

-0 mana 3/3 taunt (have a weapon with 3+ attack equipped)

 I got all the references except those 2 what are they?

on the 0 mana 3/3 taunt i think it should be 4+ since unless if im reading it wrong 3+ include 3 so its would cost 1 mana.

Alexstrasza and Big Bad Voodoo.

Mana cheating in a sense he is explaining is when it's turn 4 and you are able to drop an 8/9 drop.

Not cards that you play on mana curve lmao that are good stats/effects for it's mana.

Again, I have to harp about balance checks. This is too perfect of an example of it. It was like when Barnes and ressurect effects were running rampant versus the just strong that they are at now. How many years did we have to suffer through that? It should have been only a month or two at most.

There's this other humble grassroots tiny game called League of Legends. Do you know how many times they unleash broken-ass bonkers stuff onto the rift? The answer is it happens all the time. What the difference is between these two games with just a hundred or two playerbase is that one realizes that pencils have erasers for a reason. When LoL has an obvious, blaring problem they fix it within weeks while in HS youre lucky if they fix it in months.

It creates a depressing beat them or join them mentality that rly takes away from the overall experience. Please support the idea of regular nerfs and buffs to make this game the game it wamts to be!