This is a bit of a ridiculous circlejerk. Quest shaman is not overpowered, and isn't anywhere close to being the strongest deck right now. It is a highly technical deck with a flexible game plan that rolls over to any deck that can do threatening things in the early game before the quest is completed. It is the most popular deck on ladder right now because a lot of people enjoy playing it, but its win rate is barely over 50%. Nerfing the card that a lot of players really enjoy that also isn't causing any balance issues would be a perplexing decision on blizzard's part.
No shaman is not massively overpowered, But here is the deal. It is confirmed priest combo will be leaving in the future possibly next set I believe maybe sooner maybe later. In before patch hits shamans can't handle priests well.
Now if priests get divine spirit and inner fire changes before next set, Shaman who already has over 50% win rate while beeing weak Vs priest might be boosted to around 58-60%.
We saw same nerfs to priest during last patch. Priest was not THE best deck but still got hit alongside others, in courtesy of planning ahead.
If same happens again, it makes sense to hit shaman at the same time.
My take on this is that I've always thought that trying to complete the Quest should in some way restrict playing. But battlecry is so common keyword and some battlecries are so powerful that playing against quest Shaman that is trying to complete their quest doesn't feel any easier at all. Nerfs suggestions would be either change cost of some lackey generators (Sludge Slurper and EVIL Totem) or make the quest goal to be 10 battlecries. Anything less wouldn't be enough.
My take on this is that I've always thought that trying to complete the Quest should in some way restrict playing. But battlecry is so common keyword and some battlecries are so powerful that playing against quest Shaman that is trying to complete their quest doesn't feel any easier at all. Nerfs suggestions would be either change cost of some lackey generators (Sludge Slurper and EVIL Totem) or make the quest goal to be 10 battlecries. Anything less wouldn't be enough.
It does restrict the deckbuilding though. You're forced to have a deck with all battlecries (with the exception of the mogu/mutate package), which basically means you include every good battlecry in the game with very little flex space.
The quest isn't even the biggest issue here. I can't even count the number of games I won with an early mogu/evolve. I think a suitable nerf would be minions like mogu keep their cost for evolve purposes at the cost it actually took to play them. So if you play for 2 mana then evolve it, it becomes a 3 drop. There's still pretty broken evolve combos like evolving giggling inventor, but that happens at turn 7 or later. Someone highrolling a tirion on T3 is ridiculous.
My take on this is that I've always thought that trying to complete the Quest should in some way restrict playing. But battlecry is so common keyword and some battlecries are so powerful that playing against quest Shaman that is trying to complete their quest doesn't feel any easier at all. Nerfs suggestions would be either change cost of some lackey generators (Sludge Slurper and EVIL Totem) or make the quest goal to be 10 battlecries. Anything less wouldn't be enough.
It does restrict the deckbuilding though. You're forced to have a deck with all battlecries (with the exception of the mogu/mutate package), which basically means you include every good battlecry in the game with very little flex space.
The quest isn't even the biggest issue here. I can't even count the number of games I won with an early mogu/evolve. I think a suitable nerf would be minions like mogu keep their cost for evolve purposes at the cost it actually took to play them. So if you play for 2 mana then evolve it, it becomes a 3 drop. There's still pretty broken evolve combos like evolving giggling inventor, but that happens at turn 7 or later. Someone highrolling a tirion on T3 is ridiculous.
There is still rabble bouncer at 7 mana reduced by enemy minnions, and some other cards that can be cheated out. It is not necessarily evolves fault that minnions can be cheated out earlier.
Problem in my mind is that by turn 5 most of the time you have quest completed while generating cards.
Totem,rat into random lackey which might be lackeys that gives spells, 2/3draw if you have quest active etc. Your hand size does not reduce too much to forcefully complete quest.
Now if you want to complete old deathrattle quest your hand is ussualy depleted fast, if you wish to complete mage quest ASAP your hand size is reduced fast as well. Druid loses board and has to come back onto board of he aims to complete quest by turn 4 with coin.
Shaman on the other hand, generates cards too easily, which leaves him not losing tempo or much value from card generation. And those same cards increase in value post quest completion.
Does it need a nerf?
Before priest gets changes/nerfed for divine spirit inner fire combo probably no. When the nerfs happen yes shaman needs massive changes at the same time, in order not to become rampant t0 deck.
There is still rabble bouncer at 7 mana reduced by enemy minnions, and some other cards that can be cheated out. It is not necessarily evolves fault that minnions can be cheated out earlier.
Yeah, it can be reduced by ENEMY minions, and mage doesn't have a 0 cost evolve. So for 1, it doesn't work against every deck since not every deck goes wide, and you also needed to spend 3 mana at the time to play CC to really abuse rabble bouncer's 7 base cost, and it wasn't really the most potent combo of that deck either, though it was strong against aggro.
Mogu is reduced by ALL minions. It's not unusual to have 2 minions per side on T3, then mogu comes out, kills one of the enemy and evolves into a 8 drop, which can result in anything from a 1/1 to Tirion/octosari. Getting octosari on T3/4 is pretty much an instant win, since if they don't kill it they're getting whacked for 8 / turn, and if they do kill it there's no deck that can keep up with a quest shaman that has a 10 card hand on T4.
You are kinda of correct. Though 8 mana pool is not as great as it used to be, many lower stated minnions, exist.
Honestly, priests combo and druids after quest completion have turns just as broken. I do not find that a problem, you are taking extreme cases.
My only problem Vs shaman is card draw/discovery. With so many discover effects it is rather easy to fish for some combo, or find a card your deck couldn't include. Finding bloodlust to end games, finding silence, etc.
Evolve pool is wide and won't activate battlecries, making general 8 mana minnion worth around 5-7 mana of stats.
Spells are innately harder to deal with. Enemy decides when and how to most effectively use it. And their effects are generally more varied.
Enemy getting hagathas scheme t2, holding it in, until you win board and destroying it is harder to stomach than enemy getting tirion to be destroyed by your 1-2 mana minnion and fireball( or other removal), and keeping 5/3 weapon,
I seriously doubt Corrupt the Waters is going to draw nerf attention.
At some points, Quest Shaman has been the THIRD most successful shaman deck since Saviors rotated in. You've got Murloc and Overload shaman competing and sometimes winning out. Why would it be so obvious that THIS deck needs balance attention?
If it does draw a nerf, it won't have anything to do with ladder balance. It will be because of the Grandmaster league stagnation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
While I agree Quest Shaman is an obnoxious deck (as is any deck with Shudderwock as a staple in my experience) it won't get nerfed due to it being OP...because it's not.
It may get nerfed due to the fact that 20% of HS players are playing Shaman right now however. Last time Shaman had a super high playrate (25%) they ended up nerfing Tuksarr Totemic and Rockbiter Weapon. At the time Blizz specifically stated "it’s important that Hearthstone always feels like there are a wide variety of decks to play with and against." So if it does get nerfed I suspect that will be the reason.
pff... people asking why this deck needs to be nerfed...See image.. it is massively abused, the should nerf it to only the first battlecry should be double.
pff... people asking why this deck needs to be nerfed...See image.. it is massively abused, the should nerf it to only the first battlecry should be double.
Notice how the playrate went up when they added evolve back to standard.
pff... people asking why this deck needs to be nerfed...See image.. it is massively abused, the should nerf it to only the first battlecry should be double.
Notice how the playrate went up when they added evolve back to standard.
evolve was always a problematic card since the Old Gods
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Nerf it SOLEY because it is boring to play against. Bounce bounce bounce. Little intelligence needed.
No shaman is not massively overpowered, But here is the deal. It is confirmed priest combo will be leaving in the future possibly next set I believe maybe sooner maybe later. In before patch hits shamans can't handle priests well.
Now if priests get divine spirit and inner fire changes before next set, Shaman who already has over 50% win rate while beeing weak Vs priest might be boosted to around 58-60%.
We saw same nerfs to priest during last patch. Priest was not THE best deck but still got hit alongside others, in courtesy of planning ahead.
If same happens again, it makes sense to hit shaman at the same time.
I doubt they were smart enough to get the correlation of "cancer' and "warrior" :)
My take on this is that I've always thought that trying to complete the Quest should in some way restrict playing. But battlecry is so common keyword and some battlecries are so powerful that playing against quest Shaman that is trying to complete their quest doesn't feel any easier at all. Nerfs suggestions would be either change cost of some lackey generators (Sludge Slurper and EVIL Totem) or make the quest goal to be 10 battlecries. Anything less wouldn't be enough.
I wouldn't say that Quest Warrior was that bad... ^_^
Guys....the Shaman quest isn't even THAT good right now...
It does restrict the deckbuilding though. You're forced to have a deck with all battlecries (with the exception of the mogu/mutate package), which basically means you include every good battlecry in the game with very little flex space.
The quest isn't even the biggest issue here. I can't even count the number of games I won with an early mogu/evolve. I think a suitable nerf would be minions like mogu keep their cost for evolve purposes at the cost it actually took to play them. So if you play for 2 mana then evolve it, it becomes a 3 drop. There's still pretty broken evolve combos like evolving giggling inventor, but that happens at turn 7 or later. Someone highrolling a tirion on T3 is ridiculous.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
There is still rabble bouncer at 7 mana reduced by enemy minnions, and some other cards that can be cheated out. It is not necessarily evolves fault that minnions can be cheated out earlier.
Problem in my mind is that by turn 5 most of the time you have quest completed while generating cards.
Totem,rat into random lackey which might be lackeys that gives spells, 2/3draw if you have quest active etc. Your hand size does not reduce too much to forcefully complete quest.
Now if you want to complete old deathrattle quest your hand is ussualy depleted fast, if you wish to complete mage quest ASAP your hand size is reduced fast as well. Druid loses board and has to come back onto board of he aims to complete quest by turn 4 with coin.
Shaman on the other hand, generates cards too easily, which leaves him not losing tempo or much value from card generation. And those same cards increase in value post quest completion.
Does it need a nerf?
Before priest gets changes/nerfed for divine spirit inner fire combo probably no. When the nerfs happen yes shaman needs massive changes at the same time, in order not to become rampant t0 deck.
For now just wait and see.
Yeah, it can be reduced by ENEMY minions, and mage doesn't have a 0 cost evolve. So for 1, it doesn't work against every deck since not every deck goes wide, and you also needed to spend 3 mana at the time to play CC to really abuse rabble bouncer's 7 base cost, and it wasn't really the most potent combo of that deck either, though it was strong against aggro.
Mogu is reduced by ALL minions. It's not unusual to have 2 minions per side on T3, then mogu comes out, kills one of the enemy and evolves into a 8 drop, which can result in anything from a 1/1 to Tirion/octosari. Getting octosari on T3/4 is pretty much an instant win, since if they don't kill it they're getting whacked for 8 / turn, and if they do kill it there's no deck that can keep up with a quest shaman that has a 10 card hand on T4.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
You are kinda of correct. Though 8 mana pool is not as great as it used to be, many lower stated minnions, exist.
Honestly, priests combo and druids after quest completion have turns just as broken. I do not find that a problem, you are taking extreme cases.
My only problem Vs shaman is card draw/discovery. With so many discover effects it is rather easy to fish for some combo, or find a card your deck couldn't include. Finding bloodlust to end games, finding silence, etc.
Evolve pool is wide and won't activate battlecries, making general 8 mana minnion worth around 5-7 mana of stats.
Spells are innately harder to deal with. Enemy decides when and how to most effectively use it. And their effects are generally more varied.
Enemy getting hagathas scheme t2, holding it in, until you win board and destroying it is harder to stomach than enemy getting tirion to be destroyed by your 1-2 mana minnion and fireball( or other removal), and keeping 5/3 weapon,
Again, to nerf shaman quest is enough nerf the lackey who discover the spell. Making it giving a random class spell will help a lot.
Too easy choose for a double silence 1 mana spell 80% of the time. Give some randomness and you will see less play of this.
and talking abou nerf, i have almost 4 thousands win with priest, my favourite class since just after the beta.
yeas divine spirti have to change: 2 mana give 5 health to a minion will be good enough. or even 6 if crybaby around.
I seriously doubt Corrupt the Waters is going to draw nerf attention.
At some points, Quest Shaman has been the THIRD most successful shaman deck since Saviors rotated in. You've got Murloc and Overload shaman competing and sometimes winning out. Why would it be so obvious that THIS deck needs balance attention?
If it does draw a nerf, it won't have anything to do with ladder balance. It will be because of the Grandmaster league stagnation.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Id say my WR against shaman is like 70%... it ceetainly doesnt feel like a hard deck to beat... the overload rush shaman (jambre?) is much stronger
While I agree Quest Shaman is an obnoxious deck (as is any deck with Shudderwock as a staple in my experience) it won't get nerfed due to it being OP...because it's not.
It may get nerfed due to the fact that 20% of HS players are playing Shaman right now however. Last time Shaman had a super high playrate (25%) they ended up nerfing Tuksarr Totemic and Rockbiter Weapon. At the time Blizz specifically stated "it’s important that Hearthstone always feels like there are a wide variety of decks to play with and against." So if it does get nerfed I suspect that will be the reason.
pff... people asking why this deck needs to be nerfed...See image..
it is massively abused, the should nerf it to only the first battlecry should be double.
Notice how the playrate went up when they added evolve back to standard.
Well quest rogue was not the most successful deck at the time but it still get nerfed
evolve was always a problematic card since the Old Gods