Player 1: Creates a deck, can use any cards, standard or wild. Once the list complete, it's turned over to Player 2
Player 2: Creates a counter deck for Player 1's deck, but can only use standard cards. Player 1 does not get P2's decklist.
The match is then played best of 7.
I think this would actually be interesting if there was a tournament done around this. That's something I would actually be interested in watching. It's definitely more interesting than control warrior mirror matches. Both players get a pretty big advantage on 1 aspect. Wild has some ridiculously broken cards, but is that enough of an advantage when someone has the ability to specifically counter your deck? I'm sure there's some wild decks that are so ridiculously hard to counter even if you get to tailor a deck to it. Obviously secret mage or most combo decks probably won't be great choices due to the fact they can be hard countered.
Player 2 would have a gigantic advantage. Think of the current 5 strongest decks in wild and there are enough tools currently in standard to combat any of them. Would certainly be 70-30 favoured at least. So imho it would not make for entertaining watching.
Player 2 would have a gigantic advantage. Think of the current 5 strongest decks in wild and there are enough tools currently in standard to combat any of them. Would certainly be 70-30 favoured at least. So imho it would not make for entertaining watching.
Yes, but the strongest decks in wild right now use things that are easily counterable (like secrets). Same goes for something like odd paladin, where it's fairly easy to make a deck that'll just dump on it. There's tools in wild available that are extremely hard to counter, and obviously there'll need to be some creative deckbuilding, not just take the best available wild deck.
As player 1, I would use a slightly modified version of my ladder Renolock. I would cut a few tech cards to make room for more greed, so no standard deck could outgreed me. Aggro decks would be unfavored by default, and I have tools against combo decks.
Alternatively murloc shaman with the old quest should be also decent. The quest gives the deck so much juice that its very hard for control decks to keep up. If my opponent tries to outrace me, I just toss the quest and as a wild aggro deck I should have better chances even if my opponent runs double Hungry crab.
As player 1, I would use a slightly modified version of my ladder Renolock. I would cut a few tech cards to make room for more greed, so no standard deck could outgreed me. Aggro decks would be unfavored by default, and I have tools against combo decks.
Alternatively murloc shaman with the old quest should be also decent. The quest gives the deck so much juice that its very hard for control decks to keep up. If my opponent tries to outrace me, I just toss the quest and as a wild aggro deck I should have better chances even if my opponent runs double Hungry crab.
I guess that going second is always a better thing, even with fewer cards is the pool.. Any deck can be targeted and hard countered, and it will always have a better chance at winning..
@Poghy there is no such thing as hard countering aggro and control.. if you twitch a deck to beat control, it will by default be weaker against aggro, so adding more value cards do makes your renolock weaker against an aggro deck.. renolock is by no means good against aggro, it all depends on the build..
But OP, as you'd like to know the truth, you could create a deck and post it here, and people could create the counter and try it out against you or another one.. it's a nice little challenge!
As player 1, I would use a slightly modified version of my ladder Renolock. I would cut a few tech cards to make room for more greed, so no standard deck could outgreed me. Aggro decks would be unfavored by default, and I have tools against combo decks.
Alternatively murloc shaman with the old quest should be also decent. The quest gives the deck so much juice that its very hard for control decks to keep up. If my opponent tries to outrace me, I just toss the quest and as a wild aggro deck I should have better chances even if my opponent runs double Hungry crab.
I guess that going second is always a better thing, even with fewer cards is the pool.. Any deck can be targeted and hard countered, and it will always have a better chance at winning..
@Poghy there is no such thing as hard countering aggro and control.. if you twitch a deck to beat control, it will by default be weaker against aggro, so adding more value cards do makes your renolock weaker against an aggro deck.. renolock is by no means good against aggro, it all depends on the build..
But OP, as you'd like to know the truth, you could create a deck and post it here, and people could create the counter and try it out against you or another one.. it's a nice little challenge!
In general, I agree that Player 2 has a big advantage. However I think its possible for Player 1 to win the challange. So playing as Player 1 is the real challenge IMO.
I wasnt talking about hard countering everything, I was talking about being favored against everything that standard can come up with. Renolock seems like the most well-rounded deck with no extreme matchups, thats why I would pick that deck.
I also didnt say I would cut anti-aggro tools to make room for greed, I was talking about cuttable tech cards. You dont need Skulking geist when there is no Jade idol. You dont need Eater of secrets when you dont face secret mage in 50% of your matchups and standard secret decks arent too scary.
Actually I might take the challenge, because I want to find out if its possible to win as the wild player, but I cant play the BO7s before this weekend.
I dont think any ladder deck would find luck in this challenge, you need to tailor your deck for it. After so much talk about Renolock, I was thinking that the deck might not be able to win against Bomb Warrior. So I had another idea: Jade druid.
Skulking Geist is not available in standard, so its a good starting point. Control decks cant outvalue jades and fatigue is impossible. The deck is already pretty good against aggro thanks to the armor gain. I also have to be able the beat Mecha'thun, so I needed 2x Dirty Rat. Which means I cant play the Oaken Summons package, but its fine.
Another consideration was that I should or shouldnt run the quest, so Ive made 2 decklists. At first, I was thinking that the quest version might be too vulnerable to aggro, but after making the decks, it seems like that the quest version seems better.
@Oyabun Im pretty sure your deck is beatable. Not by ladder control warrior, but by a specifical anti aggro deck. If you are undefeated, Im gonna challenge you.
I dont think any ladder deck would find luck in this challenge, you need to tailor your deck for it. After so much talk about Renolock, I was thinking that the deck might not be able to win against Bomb Warrior. So I had another idea: Jade druid.
Skulking Geist is not available in standard, so its a good starting point. Control decks cant outvalue jades and fatigue is impossible. The deck is already pretty good against aggro thanks to the armor gain. I also have to be able the beat Mecha'thun, so I needed 2x Dirty Rat. Which means I cant play the Oaken Summons package, but its fine.
Another consideration was that I should or shouldnt run the quest, so Ive made 2 decklists. At first, I was thinking that the quest version might be too vulnerable to aggro, but after making the decks, it seems like that the quest version seems better.
@Oyabun Im pretty sure your deck is beatable. Not by ladder control warrior, but by a specifical anti aggro deck. If you are undefeated, Im gonna challenge you.
Im gonna be online soon (TM).
That seems really solid. Without geist, it basically locks out any kind of control deck from having a chance of winning, and I've definitely lost to jade druid even with some super aggro wild decks. I think the best chance at countering you would be some type of Quest Paladin, since I can pump out those eggs and make a bunch of 8/8s before you can ramp up your jades.
If anyone wants to do this on US my tag is Scout#11983. I don't have the best wild collection so I'd probably want to play the standard side of this.
Oh, and the BO7 idea is if blizzard/someone else was doing a tournament of some kind with $$ awarded to the winner. Obviously if you're playing this casually you just do whatever # of games you want, probably with some fine tuning of decks in between just to keep things interesting.
Player 1: Creates a deck, can use any cards, standard or wild. Once the list complete, it's turned over to Player 2
Player 2: Creates a counter deck for Player 1's deck, but can only use standard cards. Player 1 does not get P2's decklist.
The match is then played best of 7.
I think this would actually be interesting if there was a tournament done around this. That's something I would actually be interested in watching. It's definitely more interesting than control warrior mirror matches. Both players get a pretty big advantage on 1 aspect. Wild has some ridiculously broken cards, but is that enough of an advantage when someone has the ability to specifically counter your deck? I'm sure there's some wild decks that are so ridiculously hard to counter even if you get to tailor a deck to it. Obviously secret mage or most combo decks probably won't be great choices due to the fact they can be hard countered.
Player 2, hands down. It doesn't matter what crazy deck Player 1 comes up with, "Knowledge is Power" as the saying goes - and Player 2 will know exactly what the threats are and how to counter them effectively, whereas Player 1 will always be on the back foot having to try and guess whether a play will succeed.
That said, Player 2's deck will need to include an infallible win condition that can't be countered effectively, otherwise after seeing it the first time, Player 1 will be ready for it.
Player 1: Creates a deck, can use any cards, standard or wild. Once the list complete, it's turned over to Player 2
Player 2: Creates a counter deck for Player 1's deck, but can only use standard cards. Player 1 does not get P2's decklist.
The match is then played best of 7.
I think this would actually be interesting if there was a tournament done around this. That's something I would actually be interested in watching. It's definitely more interesting than control warrior mirror matches. Both players get a pretty big advantage on 1 aspect. Wild has some ridiculously broken cards, but is that enough of an advantage when someone has the ability to specifically counter your deck? I'm sure there's some wild decks that are so ridiculously hard to counter even if you get to tailor a deck to it. Obviously secret mage or most combo decks probably won't be great choices due to the fact they can be hard countered.
Player 2, hands down. It doesn't matter what crazy deck Player 1 comes up with, "Knowledge is Power" as the saying goes - and Player 2 will know exactly what the threats are and how to counter them effectively, whereas Player 1 will always be on the back foot having to try and guess whether a play will succeed.
That said, Player 2's deck will need to include an infallible win condition that can't be countered effectively, otherwise after seeing it the first time, Player 1 will be ready for it.
So for those of you who think P2 will be the clear winner, how many expansions/rotations do you think it'll take before P1 is favored. At some point the power level in wild will be so high that it won't be possible to counter a well built deck with only standard cards.
The rules are as follows:
Player 1: Creates a deck, can use any cards, standard or wild. Once the list complete, it's turned over to Player 2
Player 2: Creates a counter deck for Player 1's deck, but can only use standard cards. Player 1 does not get P2's decklist.
The match is then played best of 7.
I think this would actually be interesting if there was a tournament done around this. That's something I would actually be interested in watching. It's definitely more interesting than control warrior mirror matches. Both players get a pretty big advantage on 1 aspect. Wild has some ridiculously broken cards, but is that enough of an advantage when someone has the ability to specifically counter your deck? I'm sure there's some wild decks that are so ridiculously hard to counter even if you get to tailor a deck to it. Obviously secret mage or most combo decks probably won't be great choices due to the fact they can be hard countered.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
I believe the wild player would win the majority of the time.
Both a good pure aggro deck or a good control deck should be very hard to hard counter.
Anyway, what do I know...
Player 2 would have a gigantic advantage. Think of the current 5 strongest decks in wild and there are enough tools currently in standard to combat any of them. Would certainly be 70-30 favoured at least. So imho it would not make for entertaining watching.
Yes, but the strongest decks in wild right now use things that are easily counterable (like secrets). Same goes for something like odd paladin, where it's fairly easy to make a deck that'll just dump on it. There's tools in wild available that are extremely hard to counter, and obviously there'll need to be some creative deckbuilding, not just take the best available wild deck.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
As player 1, I would use a slightly modified version of my ladder Renolock. I would cut a few tech cards to make room for more greed, so no standard deck could outgreed me. Aggro decks would be unfavored by default, and I have tools against combo decks.
Alternatively murloc shaman with the old quest should be also decent. The quest gives the deck so much juice that its very hard for control decks to keep up. If my opponent tries to outrace me, I just toss the quest and as a wild aggro deck I should have better chances even if my opponent runs double Hungry crab.
I guess that going second is always a better thing, even with fewer cards is the pool.. Any deck can be targeted and hard countered, and it will always have a better chance at winning..
@Poghy there is no such thing as hard countering aggro and control.. if you twitch a deck to beat control, it will by default be weaker against aggro, so adding more value cards do makes your renolock weaker against an aggro deck.. renolock is by no means good against aggro, it all depends on the build..
But OP, as you'd like to know the truth, you could create a deck and post it here, and people could create the counter and try it out against you or another one.. it's a nice little challenge!
Yeah, a toast!
In general, I agree that Player 2 has a big advantage. However I think its possible for Player 1 to win the challange. So playing as Player 1 is the real challenge IMO.
I wasnt talking about hard countering everything, I was talking about being favored against everything that standard can come up with. Renolock seems like the most well-rounded deck with no extreme matchups, thats why I would pick that deck.
I also didnt say I would cut anti-aggro tools to make room for greed, I was talking about cuttable tech cards. You dont need Skulking geist when there is no Jade idol. You dont need Eater of secrets when you dont face secret mage in 50% of your matchups and standard secret decks arent too scary.
Actually I might take the challenge, because I want to find out if its possible to win as the wild player, but I cant play the BO7s before this weekend.
So if you wanna you could put your deck list here and someone (or even myself) could try to think on an answer.. seems like a fun thing to try out..
Yeah, a toast!
i play
my id oyaboun#2711
server : europe
here's my decklist :
I just play Control warrior and u lose ?
you don't
odd rogue can win vs odd warrior and most of reno decks
standard control warrior is much weaker but lets try ^^
add me, id on the first post
bo5
bo7 is too much
I dont think any ladder deck would find luck in this challenge, you need to tailor your deck for it. After so much talk about Renolock, I was thinking that the deck might not be able to win against Bomb Warrior. So I had another idea: Jade druid.
Skulking Geist is not available in standard, so its a good starting point. Control decks cant outvalue jades and fatigue is impossible. The deck is already pretty good against aggro thanks to the armor gain. I also have to be able the beat Mecha'thun, so I needed 2x Dirty Rat. Which means I cant play the Oaken Summons package, but its fine.
Another consideration was that I should or shouldnt run the quest, so Ive made 2 decklists. At first, I was thinking that the quest version might be too vulnerable to aggro, but after making the decks, it seems like that the quest version seems better.
So there is the deck:
Battletag: Poghy#2365
Im playing on EU.
@Oyabun Im pretty sure your deck is beatable. Not by ladder control warrior, but by a specifical anti aggro deck. If you are undefeated, Im gonna challenge you.
Im gonna be online soon (TM).
That seems really solid. Without geist, it basically locks out any kind of control deck from having a chance of winning, and I've definitely lost to jade druid even with some super aggro wild decks. I think the best chance at countering you would be some type of Quest Paladin, since I can pump out those eggs and make a bunch of 8/8s before you can ramp up your jades.
If anyone wants to do this on US my tag is Scout#11983. I don't have the best wild collection so I'd probably want to play the standard side of this.
Oh, and the BO7 idea is if blizzard/someone else was doing a tournament of some kind with $$ awarded to the winner. Obviously if you're playing this casually you just do whatever # of games you want, probably with some fine tuning of decks in between just to keep things interesting.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Player 2, hands down.
It doesn't matter what crazy deck Player 1 comes up with, "Knowledge is Power" as the saying goes - and Player 2 will know exactly what the threats are and how to counter them effectively, whereas Player 1 will always be on the back foot having to try and guess whether a play will succeed.
That said, Player 2's deck will need to include an infallible win condition that can't be countered effectively, otherwise after seeing it the first time, Player 1 will be ready for it.
So for those of you who think P2 will be the clear winner, how many expansions/rotations do you think it'll take before P1 is favored. At some point the power level in wild will be so high that it won't be possible to counter a well built deck with only standard cards.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman