I'm going to go ahead and jump on this bandwagon, with the proviso that Cleric must be replaced in Basic with some form of card draw -- class identity document be damned.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The tricky thing about these threads is that they are all cards you lose to frequently; they're all win-conditions. I don't know about you, but in Standard, Priest's current late-game is trash tier. That's why Combo Priest is always the best archetype for them. Aggro decks that can't run their win-condition in the form of a Charger? Bye Aggro-decks. And Maly and Alex have been staples in many OTK/Combo decks. I love Control decks, but this game needs good Combo decks to control, well, Control decks.
My point is: while they're all strong cards, they were designed to be just that: strong finishers. As much as I know I'll get backlash for this, I've never felt bad losing to Leeroy. I have never felt bad losing to Maly either. It's the support that these decks get in other expansions that makes them problematic. Combo decks are inherently susceptible to Aggro, but they gave Druid Spreading Plague. They gave Priest good AoE, on top of a Legendary spell that cheats out all combo-minions. It's decisions like that that make a deck spiral out of control.
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Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
The only cards I'm not keen on are those that allow you to play the game at an accelerated pace. The most recent of these (Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Conjurer's Calling) have just been hit so I'm quite happy about that. I don't think it is reasonable for a player to generate an overwhelming board presence earlier than it is possible for the opponent to deal with it. Turn 4 Mountain Giant is one thing, it can be ignored and out raced and has been since the beginning of Hearthstone, but turning it into two 7/8 Taunts unless the opponent runs their whole board into it is poor. Mana is a feature of Hearthstone that I enjoy. It allows tempo to be a part of the game and cards that allow you to outright ignore it are a dreadful concept.
Suppose Divine Spirit was a 2-mana spell which granted +4 health. Is that fair? It still does roughly the same thing on an ordinary minion, but doesn't enable excessive burst combos. 'Double' can be such a dangerous word in a card game.
Malygos is up there. Cheap spells become a big danger with Malygos.
I'm mixed on Stonetusk Boar. It does enable potentially broken burst combos, but... most of the worst offenders involve Divine Spirit, and Boar OTK are kind of cute. I feel like there ought to be a few OTK outlets, since although I hate them, enough players enjoy the puzzle. So long as the win-rates are bad enough, I'm fine with it existing.
Maybe Mountain Giant, but maybe it's less of a design constraint, and more just something which is too efficient.
//
Brawl doesn't make sense in this thread. Is Brawl strong? Yes. Does Brawl constrain design? Not really. It's just very good AOE clear. Doesn't mean Brawl should be around forever, but that it presents a different kind of issue than a lot of other cards.
From what I can see here, it seems that any card in basic or classic that is still considered good "needs" to be HoF'd, haha.
Mostly, yes. Whether or not basic and classic are broken, they're a little boring, a little too familiar. I think it'd be great if there were a major shake-up. Getting rid of nearly everything, adding some interesting filler from the older sets, creating a bunch of new stuff to fill in the gaps.
Im not in the camp who thinks Auctioneer needs to be nerfed or even deserves to be removed, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought about how warping the card is that any time a 0 mana spell is revealed people still pause to consider if its the final piece in the puzzle to an auctioneer deck. And that is undoubtedly a card warping effect, where low cost spells are at a premium.
Gadgets has been played in forever I seen one deck think it was kibbler rogue deck not even sure why it’s in the deck.
It does. By design warrior has strong single target removal and weak board clears, yet it always has Brawl, so going wide against them isn't an option.
Every card Paladin plays.
Silverback Patriarch
Anything with charge. Malygos is a close second.
Divine Spirit
Gadgetzan Auctioneer
Brawl
Northshire Cleric
Leeroy Jenkins
I'm going to go ahead and jump on this bandwagon, with the proviso that Cleric must be replaced in Basic with some form of card draw -- class identity document be damned.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The tricky thing about these threads is that they are all cards you lose to frequently; they're all win-conditions. I don't know about you, but in Standard, Priest's current late-game is trash tier. That's why Combo Priest is always the best archetype for them. Aggro decks that can't run their win-condition in the form of a Charger? Bye Aggro-decks. And Maly and Alex have been staples in many OTK/Combo decks. I love Control decks, but this game needs good Combo decks to control, well, Control decks.
My point is: while they're all strong cards, they were designed to be just that: strong finishers. As much as I know I'll get backlash for this, I've never felt bad losing to Leeroy. I have never felt bad losing to Maly either. It's the support that these decks get in other expansions that makes them problematic. Combo decks are inherently susceptible to Aggro, but they gave Druid Spreading Plague. They gave Priest good AoE, on top of a Legendary spell that cheats out all combo-minions. It's decisions like that that make a deck spiral out of control.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
The only cards I'm not keen on are those that allow you to play the game at an accelerated pace. The most recent of these (Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Conjurer's Calling) have just been hit so I'm quite happy about that. I don't think it is reasonable for a player to generate an overwhelming board presence earlier than it is possible for the opponent to deal with it. Turn 4 Mountain Giant is one thing, it can be ignored and out raced and has been since the beginning of Hearthstone, but turning it into two 7/8 Taunts unless the opponent runs their whole board into it is poor. Mana is a feature of Hearthstone that I enjoy. It allows tempo to be a part of the game and cards that allow you to outright ignore it are a dreadful concept.
Suppose Divine Spirit was a 2-mana spell which granted +4 health. Is that fair? It still does roughly the same thing on an ordinary minion, but doesn't enable excessive burst combos. 'Double' can be such a dangerous word in a card game.
Malygos is up there. Cheap spells become a big danger with Malygos.
I'm mixed on Stonetusk Boar. It does enable potentially broken burst combos, but... most of the worst offenders involve Divine Spirit, and Boar OTK are kind of cute. I feel like there ought to be a few OTK outlets, since although I hate them, enough players enjoy the puzzle. So long as the win-rates are bad enough, I'm fine with it existing.
Maybe Mountain Giant, but maybe it's less of a design constraint, and more just something which is too efficient.
//
Brawl doesn't make sense in this thread. Is Brawl strong? Yes. Does Brawl constrain design? Not really. It's just very good AOE clear. Doesn't mean Brawl should be around forever, but that it presents a different kind of issue than a lot of other cards.
Mostly, yes. Whether or not basic and classic are broken, they're a little boring, a little too familiar. I think it'd be great if there were a major shake-up. Getting rid of nearly everything, adding some interesting filler from the older sets, creating a bunch of new stuff to fill in the gaps.
Obsidian Statue
Wild Decks: Jurassic Park OTK | Highlander Hunter | Deathrattle Highlander Priest | Highlander Warlock | AlchemistLord Warlock
Gadgets has been played in forever I seen one deck think it was kibbler rogue deck not even sure why it’s in the deck.
It does. By design warrior has strong single target removal and weak board clears, yet it always has Brawl, so going wide against them isn't an option.