I believe aggro is probably working in lower ranks and thats why hsreplay has their win rate so high but what about higher ranks? No way is aggro pwning legend rank right now. I don't believe it.
Actually the data i cited from vicious syndicate is from ranks 4 to 1, which i think are the most competitive ranks as a lot of people are trying to get legend.. the top legend meta would be pretty competitive too, but they dont discriminate this data.. a lot of prople once they get legend start to goof around with funny decks and experiment a lot, ad they do with other rank floors as rank 5.. but nevertheless, the numbers seem to be good all around, as they dont change much in different ranks..
aggro is very strong this time, and i like it.. i like control matchups, but when most of your games are like this it is kind of boring for me..
Aggro decks ARE actually popular and also on the verge of reigning supreme, if only it wasn't for Control Warrior. Before the release of SoU there was a VS report which described Overload Shaman as a scary deck, only being held back by the huge amount of Warriors. Now check the latest report: "Aggro Warrior’s matchup spread is pretty ridiculous. It can beat any deck in the game… except for Control Warrior. This one oppressive matchup is keeping it from the very top of the meta."
Do you see a pattern? It's not that Aggro is dead, they're very much alive with numerous contenders. And if they dare to nerf Control Warrior they should be well aware of the aftermath. Do you remember the MSoG era? Yeah, let's not return to that.
Don't expect any kind of discussion about issues here. You will be told you are not playing the game right, or you haven't played enough games, or that you are wrong and (as always) all style of decks are viable. Bonus points if you are directed to the salt thread
Lol this is so the truth here in this site nowadays. Bonus points indeed.
I think you're basically right. The most viable "aggro" decks are faster but still really expensive Highlander Hunter decks. Shaman and rogue can do well under certain conditions but with so many warriors around it's a crapshoot. I think the only real counterargument is combo priest, which can often end the game on turn 5 or 6 but isn't an aggro deck per se.
Id like the agro and control to be a little less extreme. Not enough risk for agro, they should be auto concede after turn 7/8. Control is just out of freaking hand, how many removes does a warrior really need to have? And mage is just counter spell, counter spell, freeze, freeze, freeze, counter spell, giants or highlander cards, cc, cc, freeze, pyro or flamestrike.
All of those problems involve excessive card generation. It would be fine, but there's only 30 card slots for some classes.
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"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
Kibler was playing sub rank 5 with a really fun Paladin deck that revolves around Hand Buff and the 1 cost/health minions. I played it for a bit and had a pretty average win-rate. Definitely a good aggro deck.
Well, if you get the vicious syndicate meta report, you can see that in the tier 1 you have:
Vicious Syndicate’s reports are based on 70000 games played, which is a joke if we’re talking representativity.
HSreplay is far more indicative in terms of statistics and I see murloc paladin at the top across all ranks with two other aggro decks in tier 1 bracket - mech hunter and murloc shaman.
Aggro decks are still around in plenty and are certainly still more than viable. Murloc decks, Zoo decks, even Mech Hunter (while a shadow of its former self) is still doing the rounds. All these decks are still very strong and are only currently seeming to have a hard time because one single deck (Control Warrior) is so ridiculously good right now. Rest assured, if (and likely when) Blizzard turn the nerf-attention towards Control Warrior (and possibly Control Mage), then Aggro will become the hate-inducing deck-style of its former glory years once again.
Well, if you get the vicious syndicate meta report, you can see that in the tier 1 you have:
Vicious Syndicate’s reports are based on 70000 games played, which is a joke if we’re talking representativity.
HSreplay is far more indicative in terms of statistics and I see murloc paladin at the top across all ranks with two other aggro decks in tier 1 bracket - mech hunter and murloc shaman.
Very weird thread.
Actual statistics don't work that way. While bigger sample sizes can help to ensure that your assessments are more accurate, it isn't an indicator for accuracy. 10.000 samples could be representative, 1.000.000 samples could not be, if your method is flawed.
That being said, in terms of analysis and service, VS is way ahead of HSR, since the latter doesn't even attempt to interpret and discuss its data and hides important information behind a paywall. If you have a premium account, you can try to make conclusions yourself, but merely listing all decks in terms of winrate isn't a proper analysis of the meta.
VS is the better site, but not as popular. If you want it to do better, contribute to it. Still, the site is decent enough to get an idea of how things are at the moment, and you'll oftentimes find both sites to draw a similar picture.
Don't expect any kind of discussion about issues here. You will be told you are not playing the game right, or you haven't played enough games, or that you are wrong and (as always) all style of decks are viable. Bonus points if you are directed to the salt thread
The thing is...that's all correct. Aggro is very much not dead. Indeed, it's the best response to Mage. He's obviously missing something. And he probably should have taken this to the salt thread.
Don't expect any kind of discussion about issues here. You will be told you are not playing the game right, or you haven't played enough games, or that you are wrong and (as always) all style of decks are viable. Bonus points if you are directed to the salt thread
Lol this is so the truth here in this site nowadays. Bonus points indeed.
Every reply so far except you two cite some examples and some provided sources. Ironic, because the only lack of discussion is this.
As said already, murloc decks, zoo, and secret hunter are aggressive and doing more than fine. It's just that aggro is a little more spread out than the days of tunnel trog shaman, heal zoo, odd rogue and pally, etc, when certain aggro decks ruled their respective metas. Right now, boom and pocket galaxy rule the meta, so they're a lot more salient when people reflect on the meta. And they're not wrong, but it's easy to see past the aggro decks that are doing fine and in fact make it very difficult for mage decks to play pocket galaxy, which is a card that shines against slower decks, not aggro.
The fact that no popular decks are claiming global win rates above 56% is good. In fact, both Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay show aggro is doing just fine, as was said. Midrange is the name of the game if you're not goin for warrior (because Boom isn't a class and isn't an "I win" card like everyone treats it) or mage (who has something much closer to an "I win" card in Pocket Galaxy), which I understand isn't what you're saying.Standard aggro does have tools though, and they're outrageous, just not guaranteed to hit every game.
The best example outside of raw data and player testimonials/accounts/etc. is Tip the Scales. Since mage is targeting warrior and warrior is targeting everyone, everyone wants to beat those decks. There are more mages on ladder (again, raw data, not individual player experience) than warriors, so paladin has every reason to run murlocs and blow out incredible turn 5 board floods that snowball so fast mage can't guarantee recovery, especially if they get super unlucky and face a double Tip after double Prismatic Lens. Murloc paladin accepts losses to warrior (which aren't guaranteed, since you can't always hit the tools you need every game) and plays on the odds that mage will show up more often than not (along with other decks that can't guarantee board control after a 5-mana board flood).
Crazy snowballing aggro is out here, but it's either a bit expensive or better played as a midrange deck.
Also, I've personally had great success as highlander hunter's aggressive build. I've beaten the majority of warriors I've faced, and all but two mages. Murloc pally is usually a loss if they get Prismatic into Tip. Everything else I face is a decent positive win rate.
Wouldn't surprise me if the OP thinks of aggro as the days of pirate warrior, tunnel trogg shaman, or undertaker hunter. That those types of deck are gone is NOT a bad thing.
Aggro isn't like that anymore, but aggro is not dead.
it's so hilarious when someone starts a new thread complaining about a so-called "problem" that is the exact opposite of what's really happening in the meta.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Wouldn't surprise me if the OP thinks of aggro as the days of pirate warrior, tunnel trogg shaman, or undertaker hunter. That those types of deck are gone is NOT a bad thing.
Aggro isn't like that anymore, but aggro is not dead.
Pretty much this!! Decks like these three or old school face hunter are very limited and need to really have power plays to function like these.. the deck that comes closer to this type of face decks is aggro warrior today, with all the chargers and weapons to face, but even this deck is not at its best if all you do is go face.. today punish is real, so you have to play aggro-control until you turn to a two or three turn lethal mode.. zoo used to do this back in the day (and still does it really good), playing for tempo and board in the early game and then switch to face damage when on a two turn lethal.. not many charges and face damage as it used to have, but quite a lot compared to today's standard..
Can we just make a promise to each other to start creating threads that depict an opinion or start a discussion based on actual facts? It doesn't take a genius to head over to any HS reporting website, and look at the data.
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Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
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Actually the data i cited from vicious syndicate is from ranks 4 to 1, which i think are the most competitive ranks as a lot of people are trying to get legend.. the top legend meta would be pretty competitive too, but they dont discriminate this data.. a lot of prople once they get legend start to goof around with funny decks and experiment a lot, ad they do with other rank floors as rank 5.. but nevertheless, the numbers seem to be good all around, as they dont change much in different ranks..
aggro is very strong this time, and i like it.. i like control matchups, but when most of your games are like this it is kind of boring for me..
Yeah, a toast!
Aggro decks ARE actually popular and also on the verge of reigning supreme, if only it wasn't for Control Warrior. Before the release of SoU there was a VS report which described Overload Shaman as a scary deck, only being held back by the huge amount of Warriors. Now check the latest report: "Aggro Warrior’s matchup spread is pretty ridiculous. It can beat any deck in the game… except for Control Warrior. This one oppressive matchup is keeping it from the very top of the meta."
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-137
Do you see a pattern? It's not that Aggro is dead, they're very much alive with numerous contenders. And if they dare to nerf Control Warrior they should be well aware of the aftermath. Do you remember the MSoG era? Yeah, let's not return to that.
mech hunter is still pretty good rn due to the influx of mage on ladder rn
I agree.
Prophet Velen op.png/200px-Prophet_Velen(228).png?version=0a5755026f48944cb8fd4f7c9c1bab25)
Resurrect _Gold.png?version=4930c8d5bcc46a127bd413ed7319fbd3)
Prophet Velen
I think you're basically right. The most viable "aggro" decks are faster but still really expensive Highlander Hunter decks. Shaman and rogue can do well under certain conditions but with so many warriors around it's a crapshoot. I think the only real counterargument is combo priest, which can often end the game on turn 5 or 6 but isn't an aggro deck per se.
Id like the agro and control to be a little less extreme. Not enough risk for agro, they should be auto concede after turn 7/8. Control is just out of freaking hand, how many removes does a warrior really need to have? And mage is just counter spell, counter spell, freeze, freeze, freeze, counter spell, giants or highlander cards, cc, cc, freeze, pyro or flamestrike.
All of those problems involve excessive card generation. It would be fine, but there's only 30 card slots for some classes.
"You can't just assign random prices to junk you find in a storage locker."
Kibler was playing sub rank 5 with a really fun Paladin deck that revolves around Hand Buff and the 1 cost/health minions. I played it for a bit and had a pretty average win-rate. Definitely a good aggro deck.
Vicious Syndicate’s reports are based on 70000 games played, which is a joke if we’re talking representativity.
HSreplay is far more indicative in terms of statistics and I see murloc paladin at the top across all ranks with two other aggro decks in tier 1 bracket - mech hunter and murloc shaman.
Very weird thread.
so almost 60% win rate means dead archetype nowadays?
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ModeratorAggro decks are still around in plenty and are certainly still more than viable.
Murloc decks, Zoo decks, even Mech Hunter (while a shadow of its former self) is still doing the rounds.
All these decks are still very strong and are only currently seeming to have a hard time because one single deck (Control Warrior) is so ridiculously good right now.
Rest assured, if (and likely when) Blizzard turn the nerf-attention towards Control Warrior (and possibly Control Mage), then Aggro will become the hate-inducing deck-style of its former glory years once again.
Actual statistics don't work that way. While bigger sample sizes can help to ensure that your assessments are more accurate, it isn't an indicator for accuracy. 10.000 samples could be representative, 1.000.000 samples could not be, if your method is flawed.
That being said, in terms of analysis and service, VS is way ahead of HSR, since the latter doesn't even attempt to interpret and discuss its data and hides important information behind a paywall. If you have a premium account, you can try to make conclusions yourself, but merely listing all decks in terms of winrate isn't a proper analysis of the meta.
VS is the better site, but not as popular. If you want it to do better, contribute to it. Still, the site is decent enough to get an idea of how things are at the moment, and you'll oftentimes find both sites to draw a similar picture.
The thing is...that's all correct. Aggro is very much not dead. Indeed, it's the best response to Mage. He's obviously missing something. And he probably should have taken this to the salt thread.
Aggro is not dead and will never die. You are probably doing something very wrong if you actually think that aggro is dead.
Release the Kraken!
The fact that no popular decks are claiming global win rates above 56% is good. In fact, both Vicious Syndicate and HSReplay show aggro is doing just fine, as was said. Midrange is the name of the game if you're not goin for warrior (because Boom isn't a class and isn't an "I win" card like everyone treats it) or mage (who has something much closer to an "I win" card in Pocket Galaxy), which I understand isn't what you're saying.Standard aggro does have tools though, and they're outrageous, just not guaranteed to hit every game.
The best example outside of raw data and player testimonials/accounts/etc. is Tip the Scales. Since mage is targeting warrior and warrior is targeting everyone, everyone wants to beat those decks. There are more mages on ladder (again, raw data, not individual player experience) than warriors, so paladin has every reason to run murlocs and blow out incredible turn 5 board floods that snowball so fast mage can't guarantee recovery, especially if they get super unlucky and face a double Tip after double Prismatic Lens. Murloc paladin accepts losses to warrior (which aren't guaranteed, since you can't always hit the tools you need every game) and plays on the odds that mage will show up more often than not (along with other decks that can't guarantee board control after a 5-mana board flood).
Crazy snowballing aggro is out here, but it's either a bit expensive or better played as a midrange deck.
Also, I've personally had great success as highlander hunter's aggressive build. I've beaten the majority of warriors I've faced, and all but two mages. Murloc pally is usually a loss if they get Prismatic into Tip. Everything else I face is a decent positive win rate.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Wouldn't surprise me if the OP thinks of aggro as the days of pirate warrior, tunnel trogg shaman, or undertaker hunter. That those types of deck are gone is NOT a bad thing.
Aggro isn't like that anymore, but aggro is not dead.
it's so hilarious when someone starts a new thread complaining about a so-called "problem" that is the exact opposite of what's really happening in the meta.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Pretty much this!! Decks like these three or old school face hunter are very limited and need to really have power plays to function like these.. the deck that comes closer to this type of face decks is aggro warrior today, with all the chargers and weapons to face, but even this deck is not at its best if all you do is go face.. today punish is real, so you have to play aggro-control until you turn to a two or three turn lethal mode.. zoo used to do this back in the day (and still does it really good), playing for tempo and board in the early game and then switch to face damage when on a two turn lethal.. not many charges and face damage as it used to have, but quite a lot compared to today's standard..
Yeah, a toast!
Legend with aggro murloc shaman.
Fastest Legend I have ever did!!!
You are retardet change my mind
Can we just make a promise to each other to start creating threads that depict an opinion or start a discussion based on actual facts? It doesn't take a genius to head over to any HS reporting website, and look at the data.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.