Here is my take on the nerfs the current meta needs:
Warrior
Remove Blast Shield (Gain 7 Armor) from the set of Hero Powers. Reasoning: The Hero Power is obviously very busted. Couple of uses and it can seal the game completely. Lots of games end with Warrior having way too much Armor than they will ever need. And with cards like Eternium Rover, Zilliax, and Shield Block Warrior should still have the tools to gain enough Health, if they are used optimally. Not to mention the new set of Taunts they received.
Change Delivery Drone from (Discover a Mech) to (Add a random Mech to your hand). Reasoning: I chose not to take the Rush out from Dr. Boom, Mad Genius in my suggestions. That's why I had to suggest this nerf instead. Reducing the efficiency of choosing the right Mechs every time they are needed is very crucial in this case.
Remove the Mech tag from Omega Devastator. Reasoning: It's just not right to face 4 or 5 Omega Devastators every game through discovery. The card has a high power level. So it's important to guarantee that they can't play more than two in a game. Also, the art is clearly not a Mech, but a Goblin in a Mech suit.
Change the cost of Omega Assembly from (1) to (2). Reasoning: Too cheap for what it does at (1).
Change Dyn-o-matic Health from (4) down to (3). Reasoning: this nerf is more of an insurance policy to make sure that Control Warrior gets affected by the nerfs since they're not that cruel (I think :D).
Mage
Change the cost of Luna's Pocket Galaxy from (5) to (6). Reasoning: I think (6) is the sweet spot for the card. It didn't see play at (7) and it win games on its own at (5). So I think at (6) it will still be playable but will lose some winrate percentages.
Change the cost of Grave Horror from (12) to (11). Reasoning: It's a soft nerf to Conjurer's Calling to stop getting taunts from Mountain Giant. In the process, it's also a small buff for Priests.
Paladin
Change the text of Prismatic Lens to (Draw a minion and a spell from your deck.) Reasoning: It feels bad when you can't do anything and lose to a straight out high roll, and this basically is what this card is all about. They are just not healthy for the game.
Please let me know what are your thoughts on these suggestions, and what would you do instead if you don't agree.
As a Mage player, I know how busted Conjurer's Calling is. It requires much more than a soft nerf.
Also, while some of the Warrior nerf's are OK, I don't think all the key cards are hit hard enough.
I agree that Conjurer's Calling is overpowered. And I was redundant to Nerf it. But I felt like nerfing Conjurer's Calling to (4) Mana might kill Mage when Luna's Pocket Galaxy is also nerfed. That's why I stopped there with Mage. It's just hard to tell how these few nerfs would affect the class.
Yes, I meant to not hit any of the classes hard enough to send it to oblivion after the nerfs :D. I wanted to make sure that the Control Warrior still has room to exist if such nerfs were applied.
This new expansion, as with many in the past, provided cards to make new deck archetypes emerge. But often, just like Saviors did, give existing strong decks, even more tools to get stronger.
Offering Warrior a Discover a Taunt minion at 2 mana is very powerful. Everyone was playing the 3 mana 1/4 Taunt when that was in Standard. Now Warrior gets to play with it and no one else.
Prismatic Lens was always a powerful card, but had severe deck building limitations. With Tip the Scales, you basically took the weakness of the card, and made it a high rolling strength. You hard mulligan for Lens. If you get it, most classes cannot deal with a full board on turn 4 or 5.
Luna's Galaxy was always fringe playable at 7. It was basically a control/combo deck that used this card to ensure they can do a bunch of stuff in one turn. Now, its a staple in every single Mage deck. Getting a permanent discount of who knows how much mana is far too much value at 5 mana. I knew it would see play at 5 mana, but with Saviors, they gave Mage even more reasons to play very greedy high costed minions because it won't matter when you play Galaxy.
Conjurer's Calling is simply too powerful and cheats out minions in a class that really shouldn't have that ability. Not only does Galaxy do this, but Calling can summon you another 12 drop Giant or Grave Horror for 3 mana. Some have called for Hall of Faming Mountain Giant. I am in agreement here. I don't mind Calling being played on turns 7 and beyond, but if you can't kill the Giant on turn 4, you will lose. Getting rid of Mountain Giant would mean, decks would be forced to wait to use Calling if they wanted to get a discount and double their minions up. I think that's fair.
Lastly, the Warrior nerfs can be done in so many ways and it may not matter. The real issue is that Hero cards are really powerful and most decks keep them in their opening hand. They are that game changing. Imagine keeping a 7 drop in your opening hand with almost any other deck? You wouldn't. That would be a very bad idea for most decks.
I honestly don't know the best method, but I think we start with the 'Discover' a mech HP. I like the idea of a random Mech to make it far less reliable. It also means you are no longer getting Class based Mechs, which we all know are the strongest in the game, especially for Warrior.
I think any Nerfs should be done lightly and without sending a deck into oblivion. I like the idea of Mage decks having Calling and Galaxy, but let's make it less oppressive and get rid of Mountain Giant. I like the idea of Warriors generating Mechs with Rush, but lets make it less reliable. I like the idea of Lens being powerful, but not an instant win High roll deck with Tip the Scales.
I like many of these ideas, and I think most people would tend to agree. Even if nothing gets changed, I think it is worthy of a good discussion.
Increasing the mana cost from 3 to 4 would make it impossible to discover CC off Magic Trick. And I'd be totally fine with that. Mages, other than the dreaded Cyclone, can hold their own without having to rely on a busted spell or (combo with Khadgar). Heck, they would still have a chance to get additional copies via Mana Cyclone or Blast Wave. It's ridiculous that such a flexible spell which might also be used as pseudo hard removal (in case you want to try to get rid of the opponents Taunt so your army of giants can swing for lethal) can be played for 3 mana. As a side note, by delaying it for an additional turn we would also delay the possibility of a board full of 8/8s (7/8s) so an opponent now had more time to prepare himself.
Not sure about the suggested nerf to Lens since it would affect Shirvallah OTK Paladin as well. But I agree with some of the suggestions about Warrior. Delivery Drone is the only broken heropower since it'll usually provide extra copies of Omega Devastator, Tomb Warden or even Zilliax. Flavor-wise it doesn't even make sense since Boom as a character, of all people, is able to order the mech he wants? He is a total maniac, changing it to random mechs would suit him much more. That way you wouldn't even have to tweak Devastator. Blast Shield feels bad if it's offered almost every time you're about to threaten lethal but I think it shouldn't be removed entirely.
Well, Kibler just made a video about how problematic MAge and Warrior are right now and we all know what happened the last time he did it.
It's safe to say that Conjurer's Calling and Warrior in general will be looked at...and Paladin, at least in my opinion, is heavily overrated and will probably appear and disappear once the meta learns that literally any class with a 2-damage AoE can beat it easily.
I mean you could probably farm Murloc Pally with Questlock at this point just because drawing Hellfire wins you the game on the spot basicallly.
ON another note, Quest Paladin absolutely demolishes Warrior, it's barely even fair. I played against one who used every single piece of removal in his arsenal and he still couldn't handle the value...despite highrolling booth brawls and holding on to his maass removal for the biggest swing turns. just on turn of them not being able to kill the egg/whelp and it's over for them, so until the nerfs finally drop, Quest Pally might soothe your souls
This sounds like an unreasonable nerf thread there is nothing wrong with warrior as it is there are decks that absolutely destroy it and it is the only fatigue deck left. There were much worse decks throughout this games history. Other cards in the past have provided infinite value. Also without shield blast hero power Dr boom would probably be replaced
I don't usually mind Underbelly Angler as a card, but damn all it does is give you waves of Bluegill Warrior. Honestly, this card needs to come back in ten sets from now when there are a thousand murloc possibilities in the pool. Right now, i feel like it only gives you what you need and it's always the bluegill warrior. And Toxfin needs to be a 3 cost, even at 2 i think it's still too powerful of a card but 1 cost toxfin is just retarded.
And remove the elemental from Mana Cyclone already and leave it blank
Walking Fountain to 9 mana. It needs to be more mana than Al'Akir, which is less stats and doesn't heal. It does a better job in every way except going face.
Conjurer's Calling should be giving you 2 minions that cost 1 less, this way it gets less powerful on repeated use, as opposed to just resembling wild Giants Hunter. I hate this card with a passion and it takes great patience not to obliterate it to, say, 6 mana. Using it twice a turn is criminal, and should only be allowed with a Sorcerer's Apprentice on the board, but instead I'll offer the first nerf to stay in the spirit of the card.
Zul'jin shouldn't replenish secrets. Even if they're easy to play around, I think Zul'jin is just too soul-crushing.
Why the fck you have to nerf Horror, just make Mountain giant cost +1 inbstead of nerfing a priest card for a mage problem.
what are you talking about? He was suggesting lowering the cost, that's not a nerf to priest dude.
As far as conjurers calling is concerned I don't see any nerf that doesn't make the card essentially unplayable. The only main reason to put it in a deck is for mountain giant. Say you HoF the giant, Conjurers calling is mostly useless, save those rare occasions where a 10 drop lives a whole turn, but you aren't going to run the card in your deck in the hopes you have a 10 drop survive. There's not many good smaller targets for the spell either so ultimately I think you'd see it get cut from lists altogether.
Why the fck you have to nerf Horror, just make Mountain giant cost +1 inbstead of nerfing a priest card for a mage problem.
what are you talking about? He was suggesting lowering the cost, that's not a nerf to priest dude.
As far as conjurers calling is concerned I don't see any nerf that doesn't make the card essentially unplayable. The only main reason to put it in a deck is for mountain giant. Say you HoF the giant, Conjurers calling is mostly useless, save those rare occasions where a 10 drop lives a whole turn, but you aren't going to run the card in your deck in the hopes you have a 10 drop survive. There's not many good smaller targets for the spell either so ultimately I think you'd see it get cut from lists altogether.
CC can be played on Kalecgos for free. It can be played on the 8-mana turtle. It can be played on a mana cheated Sea Giant. It can be played on all sort of things on the turn Khadgar is played. It can be played defensively on a small drop that has been buffed and/or is starting to snowball.
And yes, noob, it can be played effectively on smaller drops.
I like the idea of adding a random mech, but in no way should Omega Devastator have its mech tag removed - I was one of those that was against it not being a mech back when the original art was released.
Here is my take on the nerfs the current meta needs:
Warrior
Remove Blast Shield (Gain 7 Armor) from the set of Hero Powers. Reasoning: The Hero Power is obviously very busted. Couple of uses and it can seal the game completely. Lots of games end with Warrior having way too much Armor than they will ever need. And with cards like Eternium Rover, Zilliax, and Shield Block Warrior should still have the tools to gain enough Health, if they are used optimally. Not to mention the new set of Taunts they received.
Change Delivery Drone from (Discover a Mech) to (Add a random Mech to your hand). Reasoning: I chose not to take the Rush out from Dr. Boom, Mad Genius in my suggestions. That's why I had to suggest this nerf instead. Reducing the efficiency of choosing the right Mechs every time they are needed is very crucial in this case.
Remove the Mech tag from Omega Devastator. Reasoning: It's just not right to face 4 or 5 Omega Devastators every game through discovery. The card has a high power level. So it's important to guarantee that they can't play more than two in a game. Also, the art is clearly not a Mech, but a Goblin in a Mech suit.
Change the cost of Omega Assembly from (1) to (2). Reasoning: Too cheap for what it does at (1).
Change Dyn-o-matic Health from (4) down to (3). Reasoning: this nerf is more of an insurance policy to make sure that Control Warrior gets affected by the nerfs since they're not that cruel (I think :D).
Let's stop you right there:
- Remove Blast Shield (Gain 7 Armor) from the set of Hero Powers: crappy idea. It already has 20% of appearing, and you want to upgrade the other 4 powers to 25%??? And it's 8 armor, not 7.
- Change Delivery Drone from (Discover a Mech) to (Add a random Mech to your hand): reasonable.
- Remove the Mech tag from Omega Devastator: IT'S A FRIGGIN MECH!!! Also you need to get to turn 10 to make them more useful.
- Change the cost of Omega Assembly from (1) to (2): reasonable change, however for full potential you still need to get to 10 mana. Meanwhile it's almost a dead card, unless you have nothing else to play.
- Change Dyn-o-matic Health from (4) down to (3): insurance against what?
Here is my take on the nerfs the current meta needs:
Warrior
Mage
Paladin
Please let me know what are your thoughts on these suggestions, and what would you do instead if you don't agree.
As a Mage player, I know how busted Conjurer's Calling is. It requires much more than a soft nerf.
Also, while some of the Warrior nerf's are OK, I don't think all the key cards are hit hard enough.
Lots of good ideas, I would like to see Brawl Hall of Famed. Have had to "play around brawl" for far too long.
I agree that Conjurer's Calling is overpowered. And I was redundant to Nerf it. But I felt like nerfing Conjurer's Calling to (4) Mana might kill Mage when Luna's Pocket Galaxy is also nerfed. That's why I stopped there with Mage. It's just hard to tell how these few nerfs would affect the class.
Yes, I meant to not hit any of the classes hard enough to send it to oblivion after the nerfs :D. I wanted to make sure that the Control Warrior still has room to exist if such nerfs were applied.
This new expansion, as with many in the past, provided cards to make new deck archetypes emerge. But often, just like Saviors did, give existing strong decks, even more tools to get stronger.
Offering Warrior a Discover a Taunt minion at 2 mana is very powerful. Everyone was playing the 3 mana 1/4 Taunt when that was in Standard. Now Warrior gets to play with it and no one else.
Prismatic Lens was always a powerful card, but had severe deck building limitations. With Tip the Scales, you basically took the weakness of the card, and made it a high rolling strength. You hard mulligan for Lens. If you get it, most classes cannot deal with a full board on turn 4 or 5.
Luna's Galaxy was always fringe playable at 7. It was basically a control/combo deck that used this card to ensure they can do a bunch of stuff in one turn. Now, its a staple in every single Mage deck. Getting a permanent discount of who knows how much mana is far too much value at 5 mana. I knew it would see play at 5 mana, but with Saviors, they gave Mage even more reasons to play very greedy high costed minions because it won't matter when you play Galaxy.
Conjurer's Calling is simply too powerful and cheats out minions in a class that really shouldn't have that ability. Not only does Galaxy do this, but Calling can summon you another 12 drop Giant or Grave Horror for 3 mana. Some have called for Hall of Faming Mountain Giant. I am in agreement here. I don't mind Calling being played on turns 7 and beyond, but if you can't kill the Giant on turn 4, you will lose. Getting rid of Mountain Giant would mean, decks would be forced to wait to use Calling if they wanted to get a discount and double their minions up. I think that's fair.
Lastly, the Warrior nerfs can be done in so many ways and it may not matter. The real issue is that Hero cards are really powerful and most decks keep them in their opening hand. They are that game changing. Imagine keeping a 7 drop in your opening hand with almost any other deck? You wouldn't. That would be a very bad idea for most decks.
I honestly don't know the best method, but I think we start with the 'Discover' a mech HP. I like the idea of a random Mech to make it far less reliable. It also means you are no longer getting Class based Mechs, which we all know are the strongest in the game, especially for Warrior.
I think any Nerfs should be done lightly and without sending a deck into oblivion. I like the idea of Mage decks having Calling and Galaxy, but let's make it less oppressive and get rid of Mountain Giant. I like the idea of Warriors generating Mechs with Rush, but lets make it less reliable. I like the idea of Lens being powerful, but not an instant win High roll deck with Tip the Scales.
I like many of these ideas, and I think most people would tend to agree. Even if nothing gets changed, I think it is worthy of a good discussion.
Increasing the mana cost from 3 to 4 would make it impossible to discover CC off Magic Trick. And I'd be totally fine with that. Mages, other than the dreaded Cyclone, can hold their own without having to rely on a busted spell or (combo with Khadgar). Heck, they would still have a chance to get additional copies via Mana Cyclone or Blast Wave. It's ridiculous that such a flexible spell which might also be used as pseudo hard removal (in case you want to try to get rid of the opponents Taunt so your army of giants can swing for lethal) can be played for 3 mana. As a side note, by delaying it for an additional turn we would also delay the possibility of a board full of 8/8s (7/8s) so an opponent now had more time to prepare himself.
Not sure about the suggested nerf to Lens since it would affect Shirvallah OTK Paladin as well. But I agree with some of the suggestions about Warrior. Delivery Drone is the only broken heropower since it'll usually provide extra copies of Omega Devastator, Tomb Warden or even Zilliax. Flavor-wise it doesn't even make sense since Boom as a character, of all people, is able to order the mech he wants? He is a total maniac, changing it to random mechs would suit him much more. That way you wouldn't even have to tweak Devastator. Blast Shield feels bad if it's offered almost every time you're about to threaten lethal but I think it shouldn't be removed entirely.
Well, Kibler just made a video about how problematic MAge and Warrior are right now and we all know what happened the last time he did it.
It's safe to say that Conjurer's Calling and Warrior in general will be looked at...and Paladin, at least in my opinion, is heavily overrated and will probably appear and disappear once the meta learns that literally any class with a 2-damage AoE can beat it easily.
I mean you could probably farm Murloc Pally with Questlock at this point just because drawing Hellfire wins you the game on the spot basicallly.
ON another note, Quest Paladin absolutely demolishes Warrior, it's barely even fair. I played against one who used every single piece of removal in his arsenal and he still couldn't handle the value...despite highrolling booth brawls and holding on to his maass removal for the biggest swing turns. just on turn of them not being able to kill the egg/whelp and it's over for them, so until the nerfs finally drop, Quest Pally might soothe your souls
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
This sounds like an unreasonable nerf thread there is nothing wrong with warrior as it is there are decks that absolutely destroy it and it is the only fatigue deck left. There were much worse decks throughout this games history. Other cards in the past have provided infinite value. Also without shield blast hero power Dr boom would probably be replaced
I don't usually mind Underbelly Angler as a card, but damn all it does is give you waves of Bluegill Warrior. Honestly, this card needs to come back in ten sets from now when there are a thousand murloc possibilities in the pool. Right now, i feel like it only gives you what you need and it's always the bluegill warrior. And Toxfin needs to be a 3 cost, even at 2 i think it's still too powerful of a card but 1 cost toxfin is just retarded.
And remove the elemental from Mana Cyclone already and leave it blank
No need to kill control warrior, but it does need a bit of a nerf.
Omega devastator to deal only 7 damage,
Boom hero powers slightly nerfed:
deal 1 to all enemy minions (instead of all enemies)
add a random mech to your hand (instead of discover)
gain 5 armor (instead of 7)
deal 3 damage to a minion (instead of to anyone)
I feel like these would make control warrior more fair, without absolutely killing them.
I'm also predicting that blizzard is going to hall of fame brawl at the next rotation.
Really love the grave horror one, it's a nerf to mage, and a buff to its actual class. And lord knows priests need some love.
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
Something needs to happen to Conjurer's calling.
Mana Cyclone needs to be made 4 mana.
All giants need to be HoF'd
Walking Fountain to 9 mana. It needs to be more mana than Al'Akir, which is less stats and doesn't heal. It does a better job in every way except going face.
Conjurer's Calling should be giving you 2 minions that cost 1 less, this way it gets less powerful on repeated use, as opposed to just resembling wild Giants Hunter. I hate this card with a passion and it takes great patience not to obliterate it to, say, 6 mana. Using it twice a turn is criminal, and should only be allowed with a Sorcerer's Apprentice on the board, but instead I'll offer the first nerf to stay in the spirit of the card.
Zul'jin shouldn't replenish secrets. Even if they're easy to play around, I think Zul'jin is just too soul-crushing.
And Warrior...
Why the fck you have to nerf Horror, just make Mountain giant cost +1 inbstead of nerfing a priest card for a mage problem.
what are you talking about? He was suggesting lowering the cost, that's not a nerf to priest dude.
As far as conjurers calling is concerned I don't see any nerf that doesn't make the card essentially unplayable. The only main reason to put it in a deck is for mountain giant. Say you HoF the giant, Conjurers calling is mostly useless, save those rare occasions where a 10 drop lives a whole turn, but you aren't going to run the card in your deck in the hopes you have a 10 drop survive. There's not many good smaller targets for the spell either so ultimately I think you'd see it get cut from lists altogether.
CC can be played on Kalecgos for free. It can be played on the 8-mana turtle. It can be played on a mana cheated Sea Giant. It can be played on all sort of things on the turn Khadgar is played. It can be played defensively on a small drop that has been buffed and/or is starting to snowball.
And yes, noob, it can be played effectively on smaller drops.
Of all of these, the only one of these that seems like a fitting nerf is the one to Delivery Drone.
I think Dyn-o-matic is also deserving of a nerf, but nerfing its Health won't really change its playability.
I like the idea of adding a random mech, but in no way should Omega Devastator have its mech tag removed - I was one of those that was against it not being a mech back when the original art was released.
Dr. Boom needs to be Hall of Famed, not nerfed.
But oh, my, I do wish they'd stop making insane mana-cheating cards. Nothing good ever comes of it.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Let's stop you right there:
- Remove Blast Shield (Gain 7 Armor) from the set of Hero Powers: crappy idea. It already has 20% of appearing, and you want to upgrade the other 4 powers to 25%??? And it's 8 armor, not 7.
- Change Delivery Drone from (Discover a Mech) to (Add a random Mech to your hand): reasonable.
- Remove the Mech tag from Omega Devastator: IT'S A FRIGGIN MECH!!! Also you need to get to turn 10 to make them more useful.
- Change the cost of Omega Assembly from (1) to (2): reasonable change, however for full potential you still need to get to 10 mana. Meanwhile it's almost a dead card, unless you have nothing else to play.
- Change Dyn-o-matic Health from (4) down to (3): insurance against what?
I am CW player and those are pretty reasonable nerfs i would agree with.