It's only been a week, we havent figured out all the best decks, if warrior is still a problem at the end of the month, then I can see a change. Give it time I can see in the near future reborn and deathrattle decks owning warrior.no one has figured it out yet, patience young grasshopper
I've lost 1 time to mage - stupid luck with khadar + conjuring. Other then this, mage it's not a problem. Only viable counter it's thief rogue with neverending Tess or... pogo hoppers :P
I just saw a video of Kibler where he addresses the state of Control Warrior. Some potential issues were Omega Assembly, Dr. Boom's hero power (Discovering Mechs), the rush ability for mechs, as well as Omega Devastator. (Especially the ability to discover copies of it)
I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of change for some of those cards.
Sure and Quest Paladin can be destroyed by Combo Pirest, which can be destroyed by Highlander Hunter, which can be destroyed by Tempo Rogue, which can be destroyed by... Give me like 100k dust and I'll deal with every threat on ladder!
But serious, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to make people realize that "Play deck X" is not a proper solution, but rather flawed game design, that we should not support. It's important especially now, when "normal" meta decks (not weakened budget decks) starts from 10K of dust (yeah, "free to play" my ass Blizzard...).
Judging by this very reply, you have the desire to have a deck that can beat all other archetypes[...].
No, not at all. All I want is to make all decks follow the same rule: Do you want to win a game? You must do this via the board presence (like the old days of HS)!
Why can Warrior win games without actually fighting for the board presence? Because he doesn't have to. His entire game plan is to remove all threats and stack armor. That's all, he doesn't even have to deal any damage to his opponent's face! Obviously the same applies to other heavy control or combo decks. Playing against them is like talking to someone who speaks a different language than yours. There is no dialogue, no interaction, no fun. That's why I think all decks should be forced to use a "common language" - board.
How can we achieve this? We need to limit the number of removal, heal and gain armor cards (across all classes). This way, no deck would be able to build its entire strategy based on those cards alone. A limited amount of such tools would force all decks to fight "fair" for the board presence, and not relay only on immediate answers played from hand. Combo decks should also work via the board like Exodia Paladin did. Do you want to make instant kill combo? Fine, but at least give your opponent a chance (like at least 1 turn) to disrupt your plan (you guessed it, by interacting with your combo pieces present on board).
This way, every deck - at least theoretically - would have a chance with any deck, because EVERY deck would be designed with one and the same principle in mind: Have a presence on the board, board is your king, board is your life! You don't have a board = you lost. This, of course, doesn't mean that we should favor fast and aggressive decks that can flood the board with minions. Aggro decks also should be toned down and slowed, giving opponent more time to answer.
To achieve all this, I think that all cards that allow "cheating" should be thrown out of the game. No mana discounts (like playing 8/8 minion on turn 4), no cloning cards above limits (like getting many copies of powerful legendaries), no getting randm cards from other classes (like Rogue who should not theoretically be able to deal with a wide boards, that plays Flame Strike and destroys Zoo Lock entirely) etc.
Vanilla HS was like that, and that was pretty good.
I honestly don't think they should nerf Dr. Boom. That punishes people who love the card and want to continue using it in Wild, where it faces real competition from DKs.
Hall of Fame is the way to go, and the sooner, the better.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Just some numbers: according to the data from HSReplay the Warrior class currently consists of 66% Control and 11,5% Bomb. Quest Warrior is laughable (4,3%) and the only new deck which has emerged is similar to old Tempo Warrior (12,8%) but it basically auto-loses to Control Warrior.
But yeah, Control Warrior is certainly okay and should remain the top dog with an overall win rate of ~57%, am I right? Just play Quest Paladin or Mecha'thun Warrior, GG EZ. How dare they allow other Control decks with a less tedious, time-consuming game plan to compete with Garrosh.
No one with 2 brain cells will tell you that Control Warrior needs a nerf because it's overwhelmingly strong, we know that's not the case, the deck is strong, for sure but it isn't some kind of tier 0 god that's above everything else, there are counters and some other decks that do good against CW so that's not the issue. The problem is that playing against warrior is the most boring and mind-numbing thing there is, you know from the start that the game is gonna take forever and that they have 7k removals and then comes Dr.Boom to just kick you right in the nuts cause for whatever reason he hasn't even been mentioned by blizzard as a problematic card when he clearly takes CW to a very powerful level, a deck that should be good against aggro and tempo decks gets the tools to outvalue other decks that should beat it consistenly, it's quite literally the Rexxar drama all over again.
Tbh even when I'm playing the most polarized deck vs CW, which according to HSReplay it's either Quest Paladin with 20% winrate vs it or Mecha'thun Warrior with 17%, I feel like I want to die just because how bored I get of playing vs it, and I'm pretty sure a deck should be tuned even when you are certain that 8/10 you're gonna smack it and you still feel like shit as soon as you see a warrior in the opposite side of the screen.
It's not about power, it's about most of the community wanting to shoot themselves as soon as you hear Garrosh or Magni.
Quest Druid running Nomi and Elise the Enlightened seem to be a hard counter to Warrior. Too bad aggro bullies Quest Druid and makes people play Warrior to counter them. The circle of life...
Sure and Quest Paladin can be destroyed by Combo Pirest, which can be destroyed by Highlander Hunter, which can be destroyed by Tempo Rogue, which can be destroyed by... Give me like 100k dust and I'll deal with every threat on ladder!
But serious, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to make people realize that "Play deck X" is not a proper solution, but rather flawed game design, that we should not support. It's important especially now, when "normal" meta decks (not weakened budget decks) starts from 10K of dust (yeah, "free to play" my ass Blizzard...).
Judging by this very reply, you have the desire to have a deck that can beat all other archetypes. Card Games are not supposed to work that way. Even by the inherent archetypes like Combo, Aggro and Control, there is order and logic in there. It's a choice you make, when you pick up one of these archetypes. I like Control decks, and as such, know I'll struggle against Mecha'Thun Warlock, with like a 20% chance of me winning.
This isn’t necessarily correct. A big part of the reason year of the Raven’s Malygos Druid, Even Warlock and Even Paladin were so popular with top players was because they represented very close to 50/50 matchups across the board. As such, you couldn’t out-queue these decks, you had to outplay them in the game. It was a very good time to be playing on ladder and I feel like players should be afforded that option if they don’t want to participate in the Rock, Paper, Scissors gameplay. There’s no reason there shouldn’t be viable decks that are okay against everything.
What bothers me is Pirate Warrior was Tier 1 back in the day when Patches had Charge Blizz nerfed Pirate Warrior just by nerfing Patches and Fiery Waraxe yet Blizz don't believe that Dr. Boom is a problematic card for Control Warrior.
Blizzard din't nerf Patches until he was two months from rotating out, so he was in the game for almost 1½ year without being nerfed, and Pirate Warrior was a tier 1 deck throughout that time. He was nerfed mainly so the wouldn't cause trouble in Wild forever. Dr Boom has only really been a problem since April when the Deathknights rotated out. And there are definitely decks that beat Control Warrior - the main problem in my opinion is how boring and repetitive a game becomes after Dr Boom is played. Maybe they'll nerf him for the same reason they did Elisyana.
I just saw a video of Kibler where he addresses the state of Control Warrior. Some potential issues were Omega Assembly, Dr. Boom's hero power (Discovering Mechs), the rush ability for mechs, as well as Omega Devastator. (Especially the ability to discover copies of it)
I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of change for some of those cards.
Kibler didn't say they should nerf the rush ability though, he actually disagreed with that because it would be too big a nerf. His suggestions were to remove the gain 7 amour option (not the discover a mech one), give Boom less armour when played (5 like the other hero cards) or do something about Omega Assembly specifically.
If you hate control warrior it's worth trying a quest control shaman. Hecklebot and Shudder can pull up to 6 minions out of their deck just by themselves aiming for thier Elysiana. They don't do a lot of damage and you can do a lot of heals.
It's really sweet to see a control warrior concede knowing they are going to die of fatigue
Lol after ROS came out I actually managed to kill a bomb warrior by fatigue as a regular old murloc shaman...
Mechathun Warlock is here to answer your CW issues.
discount Mechathun's once then dark pact?
Dark Pact is not in the standard anymore, use Plague of Flames, you are also destroying your board but I am not sure how it works when enemy has 0 minions on the board.
Mechathun Warlock is here to answer your CW issues.
discount Mechathun's once then dark pact?
Dark Pact is not in the standard anymore, use Plague of Flames, you are also destroying your board but I am not sure how it works when enemy has 0 minions on the board.
Last night 30 ranked games - ended with 27 wins, lost 3 times from super lucky aggro shit decks... and i was playing quest paladin :) Control warrior have 0 chance vs quest paladin - just so know :P
Sure and Quest Paladin can be destroyed by Combo Pirest, which can be destroyed by Highlander Hunter, which can be destroyed by Tempo Rogue, which can be destroyed by... Give me like 100k dust and I'll deal with every threat on ladder!
But serious, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to make people realize that "Play deck X" is not a proper solution, but rather flawed game design, that we should not support. It's important especially now, when "normal" meta decks (not weakened budget decks) starts from 10K of dust (yeah, "free to play" my ass Blizzard...).
Judging by this very reply, you have the desire to have a deck that can beat all other archetypes[...].
No, not at all. All I want is to make all decks follow the same rule: Do you want to win a game? You must do this via the board presence (like the old days of HS)!
Why can Warrior win games without actually fighting for the board presence? Because he doesn't have to. His entire game plan is to remove all threats and stack armor. That's all, he doesn't even have to deal any damage to his opponent's face! Obviously the same applies to other heavy control or combo decks. Playing against them is like talking to someone who speaks a different language than yours. There is no dialogue, no interaction, no fun. That's why I think all decks should be forced to use a "common language" - board.
How can we achieve this? We need to limit the number of removal, heal and gain armor cards (across all classes). This way, no deck would be able to build its entire strategy based on those cards alone. A limited amount of such tools would force all decks to fight "fair" for the board presence, and not relay only on immediate answers played from hand. Combo decks should also work via the board like Exodia Paladin did. Do you want to make instant kill combo? Fine, but at least give your opponent a chance (like at least 1 turn) to disrupt your plan (you guessed it, by interacting with your combo pieces present on board).
This way, every deck - at least theoretically - would have a chance with any deck, because EVERY deck would be designed with one and the same principle in mind: Have a presence on the board, board is your king, board is your life! You don't have a board = you lost. This, of course, doesn't mean that we should favor fast and aggressive decks that can flood the board with minions. Aggro decks also should be toned down and slowed, giving opponent more time to answer.
To achieve all this, I think that all cards that allow "cheating" should be thrown out of the game. No mana discounts (like playing 8/8 minion on turn 4), no cloning cards above limits (like getting many copies of powerful legendaries), no getting randm cards from other classes (like Rogue who should not theoretically be able to deal with a wide boards, that plays Flame Strike and destroys Zoo Lock entirely) etc.
Vanilla HS was like that, and that was pretty good.
Well, you know what happens when healing and removal get removed? Face decks begin appearing all over the place. And face decks are not just like aggro which tries to kill you fast, face decks just go always face, ignoring everything you do. If you feel like playing against control is like talking with someone in another language, face decks just don't talk. And imo new hs is much better than old hs bc face decks are not arround anymore
I can confirm that Quest Paladin is exceedingly good versus Control Warrior right now. So far I have faced maybe a dozen CW's with this deck (currently now Rank 2) and have been able to win every match so far. The downside is that these games still do tend to drag on right to the end, so the grind is real. But at least it's a win, so it's much less frustrating. :-)
I am very tempted to craft quest paladin but I am pretty sure that Blizzard will nerf control warrior soon or later and after that meta will change and we might see less cws and quest paladin will suddeny struggle.
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It's only been a week, we havent figured out all the best decks, if warrior is still a problem at the end of the month, then I can see a change. Give it time I can see in the near future reborn and deathrattle decks owning warrior.no one has figured it out yet, patience young grasshopper
I've lost 1 time to mage - stupid luck with khadar + conjuring. Other then this, mage it's not a problem. Only viable counter it's thief rogue with neverending Tess or... pogo hoppers :P
I just saw a video of Kibler where he addresses the state of Control Warrior. Some potential issues were Omega Assembly, Dr. Boom's hero power (Discovering Mechs), the rush ability for mechs, as well as Omega Devastator. (Especially the ability to discover copies of it)
I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of change for some of those cards.
No, not at all. All I want is to make all decks follow the same rule: Do you want to win a game? You must do this via the board presence (like the old days of HS)!
Why can Warrior win games without actually fighting for the board presence? Because he doesn't have to. His entire game plan is to remove all threats and stack armor. That's all, he doesn't even have to deal any damage to his opponent's face! Obviously the same applies to other heavy control or combo decks. Playing against them is like talking to someone who speaks a different language than yours. There is no dialogue, no interaction, no fun. That's why I think all decks should be forced to use a "common language" - board.
How can we achieve this? We need to limit the number of removal, heal and gain armor cards (across all classes). This way, no deck would be able to build its entire strategy based on those cards alone. A limited amount of such tools would force all decks to fight "fair" for the board presence, and not relay only on immediate answers played from hand. Combo decks should also work via the board like Exodia Paladin did. Do you want to make instant kill combo? Fine, but at least give your opponent a chance (like at least 1 turn) to disrupt your plan (you guessed it, by interacting with your combo pieces present on board).
This way, every deck - at least theoretically - would have a chance with any deck, because EVERY deck would be designed with one and the same principle in mind: Have a presence on the board, board is your king, board is your life! You don't have a board = you lost. This, of course, doesn't mean that we should favor fast and aggressive decks that can flood the board with minions. Aggro decks also should be toned down and slowed, giving opponent more time to answer.
To achieve all this, I think that all cards that allow "cheating" should be thrown out of the game. No mana discounts (like playing 8/8 minion on turn 4), no cloning cards above limits (like getting many copies of powerful legendaries), no getting randm cards from other classes (like Rogue who should not theoretically be able to deal with a wide boards, that plays Flame Strike and destroys Zoo Lock entirely) etc.
Vanilla HS was like that, and that was pretty good.
There is no way that they don’t take this opportunity to nerf at least one classic card for warrior guys.
It is obvious to blizzard that Shield Slam and Brawl are the problems.
discount Mechathun's once then dark pact?
I honestly don't think they should nerf Dr. Boom. That punishes people who love the card and want to continue using it in Wild, where it faces real competition from DKs.
Hall of Fame is the way to go, and the sooner, the better.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Just some numbers: according to the data from HSReplay the Warrior class currently consists of 66% Control and 11,5% Bomb. Quest Warrior is laughable (4,3%) and the only new deck which has emerged is similar to old Tempo Warrior (12,8%) but it basically auto-loses to Control Warrior.
But yeah, Control Warrior is certainly okay and should remain the top dog with an overall win rate of ~57%, am I right? Just play Quest Paladin or Mecha'thun Warrior, GG EZ. How dare they allow other Control decks with a less tedious, time-consuming game plan to compete with Garrosh.
This guy got it totally right:
Quest Druid running Nomi and Elise the Enlightened seem to be a hard counter to Warrior. Too bad aggro bullies Quest Druid and makes people play Warrior to counter them. The circle of life...
This isn’t necessarily correct. A big part of the reason year of the Raven’s Malygos Druid, Even Warlock and Even Paladin were so popular with top players was because they represented very close to 50/50 matchups across the board. As such, you couldn’t out-queue these decks, you had to outplay them in the game. It was a very good time to be playing on ladder and I feel like players should be afforded that option if they don’t want to participate in the Rock, Paper, Scissors gameplay. There’s no reason there shouldn’t be viable decks that are okay against everything.
Blizzard din't nerf Patches until he was two months from rotating out, so he was in the game for almost 1½ year without being nerfed, and Pirate Warrior was a tier 1 deck throughout that time. He was nerfed mainly so the wouldn't cause trouble in Wild forever. Dr Boom has only really been a problem since April when the Deathknights rotated out. And there are definitely decks that beat Control Warrior - the main problem in my opinion is how boring and repetitive a game becomes after Dr Boom is played. Maybe they'll nerf him for the same reason they did Elisyana.
Kibler didn't say they should nerf the rush ability though, he actually disagreed with that because it would be too big a nerf. His suggestions were to remove the gain 7 amour option (not the discover a mech one), give Boom less armour when played (5 like the other hero cards) or do something about Omega Assembly specifically.
Lol after ROS came out I actually managed to kill a bomb warrior by fatigue as a regular old murloc shaman...
Dark Pact is not in the standard anymore, use Plague of Flames, you are also destroying your board but I am not sure how it works when enemy has 0 minions on the board.
Still wipes your whole board I'm pretty sure
The king is dead, hail to the king!
Last night 30 ranked games - ended with 27 wins, lost 3 times from super lucky aggro shit decks... and i was playing quest paladin :) Control warrior have 0 chance vs quest paladin - just so know :P
Well, you know what happens when healing and removal get removed? Face decks begin appearing all over the place. And face decks are not just like aggro which tries to kill you fast, face decks just go always face, ignoring everything you do. If you feel like playing against control is like talking with someone in another language, face decks just don't talk. And imo new hs is much better than old hs bc face decks are not arround anymore
just U and I
Play reborn pally if you run into alot of warriors... trust me I got rolled by 1 yesterday
I can confirm that Quest Paladin is exceedingly good versus Control Warrior right now.
So far I have faced maybe a dozen CW's with this deck (currently now Rank 2) and have been able to win every match so far.
The downside is that these games still do tend to drag on right to the end, so the grind is real. But at least it's a win, so it's much less frustrating. :-)
I am very tempted to craft quest paladin but I am pretty sure that Blizzard will nerf control warrior soon or later and after that meta will change and we might see less cws and quest paladin will suddeny struggle.