yes Im just talking about that its still strong tier1 deck without boom, but it seems little bit more balanced. Played today 10 games in legend with taunt no-boom version. 7-3.
I think all hero cards except Jaraxxus ruining this game. All collection card games is about resource management, but HS is going wrong way, Its already not COMPETITIVE anymore and it will be not fun for casuals soon.
Im was 50/50 with rng like it was in GvG addon. But now its rly seems stupid. I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
And one more problem is "mana cheating" like CC is. Its not ramp (investing card and turn for more tempo next turns), its free board impact and even with 4 mana minion (like reborn taunt) it can win you a game in one turn.
So we can just watch what developers will do with our favourite game, I think if they wont nerf of delete cards like CC, mana cyclone, all hero cards - its way to hell.
Mage is the most popular and most successful deck in the game. Could it be their way more broken tools? No, couldn't be. Warrior is clearly the best deck based off of more inaccurate information from HSReplay with 0 meta assessment to back it up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
off course good player will win bad player if their rng lvl is close enough. Or noone can stop u playing tier one deck with 60% winrate, so without mistakes you will climb. Im good (not best or top) player too and legend and good legend ranks never was a problem for me on meta decks.
But you should agree that Hearthstone now is more about highrolling and coin flip. Just check last tournaments and ull see. That warrior or mage mirrors. Was is about better skill? No, playing level was same or very close, it was about playing boom earlier, discover better mechs and crazy mana cyclone rolls
and they continuing adding broken cards like Zephyrs, next addon there will be no problem to make singleton card for any class, because tgere's so many cards with high power level, so u paying close to nothing.
Ofc its fun for casuals "PERFECT CARD PogChamp", but imagine to outplay it. "oh, my opponent has 6 tokens so he will get bloodlust", "i cant play deathratles cause of silence roll", "shit, cant play weapon, he will get Harrison", "cant spam board - brawl", "cant play big taunt - black Knight"
Yes, on high levels of playing ur teaching to bite enemy for using certain card, but tools like this is beyond good and evil
I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
off course good player will win bad player if their rng lvl is close enough. Or noone can stop u playing tier one deck with 60% winrate, so without mistakes you will climb. Im good (not best or top) player too and legend and good legend ranks never was a problem for me on meta decks.
But you should agree that Hearthstone now is more about highrolling and coin flip. Just check last tournaments and ull see. That warrior or mage mirrors. Was is about better skill? No, playing level was same or very close, it was about playing boom earlier, discover better mechs and crazy mana cyclone rolls
Boom needs to be nerfed but not to the ground. Make the mechs in your hand and deck to have rush, but not the discovered ones, and also cut the 7 armor gain to 4 (tank up), and the card will still be great, but not OP. It absolutely needs to be toned down, let’s be fair here.
Let's see… aggro takes no thought. Control warrior takes not thought. ____ (insert deck you can't beat) takes no thought.
But the deck YOU play takes skill and planning.
I'm detecting a trend here.
Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
Directed at anyone and everyone who claims a certain deck requires no thought to play. It's been said many times in these forums about aggro. It comes up just about any time a deck emerges as exceptionally strong. The fact that Control Warrior is very strong DOES NOT mean that it takes no thinking to play it. If that were true, every player who owns Dr. Boom would be legend right now.
Let's see… aggro takes no thought. Control warrior takes not thought. ____ (insert deck you can't beat) takes no thought.
But the deck YOU play takes skill and planning.
I'm detecting a trend here.
Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
Directed at anyone and everyone who claims a certain deck requires no thought to play. It's been said many times in these forums about aggro. It comes up just about any time a deck emerges as exceptionally strong. The fact that Control Warrior is very strong DOES NOT mean that it takes no thinking to play it. If that were true, every player who owns Dr. Boom would be legend right now.
Incorrect. The only skill required to play this game is deck building and even that is mostly negated by netdecking. The absolute truth is basic math and reading is required to play Hearthstone and no more.
Let's see… aggro takes no thought. Control warrior takes not thought. ____ (insert deck you can't beat) takes no thought.
But the deck YOU play takes skill and planning.
I'm detecting a trend here.
Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
Directed at anyone and everyone who claims a certain deck requires no thought to play. It's been said many times in these forums about aggro. It comes up just about any time a deck emerges as exceptionally strong. The fact that Control Warrior is very strong DOES NOT mean that it takes no thinking to play it. If that were true, every player who owns Dr. Boom would be legend right now.
No one ever said that all strong decks are low-skill decks. We are saying that this particular strong deck requires no skill.
Every player with the time and desire to reach legend who owns Dr. Boom probably has reached legend with it.
If you own all the cards in the deck and were unable to reach legend last month no matter how much time you spent playing, you will never reach legend with any deck and should probably give up that dream.
This month is a different story, as there are more decks that can counter CW. So yes, it is less strong in the meta than it used to be, but that doesn't mean we should put up with a card that creates a terrible experience every time it's played. Most of us hate it because it's boring and polarizing, not because of the power level alone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I’m a control player who switched to aggro, because even for my taste CW mirrors are abysmal. Not only because of how long they are, but because these games basically come down to who plays Boom first, it’s unhealthy. Boom shouldn’t be that relevant.
I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
off course good player will win bad player if their rng lvl is close enough. Or noone can stop u playing tier one deck with 60% winrate, so without mistakes you will climb. Im good (not best or top) player too and legend and good legend ranks never was a problem for me on meta decks.
But you should agree that Hearthstone now is more about highrolling and coin flip. Just check last tournaments and ull see. That warrior or mage mirrors. Was is about better skill? No, playing level was same or very close, it was about playing boom earlier, discover better mechs and crazy mana cyclone rolls
2) There have always been extremely bad players who complain about them
compare it to current rng. That times loosing because of low roll or wining because of high roll - was very low % of games. It was about skill and matchups. For example compare pre-gvg or gvg CW mirror. It was only skill based. But now?
Mage is the most popular and most successful deck in the game. Could it be their way more broken tools? No, couldn't be. Warrior is clearly the best deck based off of more inaccurate information from HSReplay with 0 meta assessment to back it up.
It's funny how you keep bringing the same stupid argument. So, there is place for only one OP deck in this game ? No, both are broken af. And both are way more powerfull than they should be because of a single card.
Warrior is not broken and Boom does not need a nerf.
I think we've become accustomed to aggro ruling the ladder, to control always getting shoved out of tier 1 by hyper aggro and combo/OTK decks that nullify control's whole archetype as effective. Now that control has solid tools in the warrior class to effectively counter aggro (and OTK isn't so easy anymore), the community is crying wolf over the "broken" Dr. Boom, Mad Genius. Comparisons to the original Death Knight cards are fairly common (and misguided imo, since the Frozen Throne hero cards were outrageously broken and designed without regard to how they'd age as standard progressed over two years). People often say he has 5 awesome hero powers (he has one great one, one good one, and 3 highly situational ones regarding their value and effectiveness).
I beat warriors all the time, both with and without their playing Dr. 7 hero card. It depends far more on the ability of the player, and Boom rng only really comes into play in mirror matches or specific situations, not as a general rule. I've gotten plenty of salt adds with people weeping about how lucky I was that their hero power wasn't armor for 3 turns in a row, not how badly they wasted their resources on boards of tokens while I built up a hand to kill them with regardless of the 21 armor they thought would save them. I've lost to lucky hero power rolls, sure, that's part of the Hearthstone experience, but that mechanic isn't broken, it's just effective. it's a control card and it controls very well.
This is how strong cards work: they perform their task well within the archetype they fit for that class. Overpowered cards like Conjurer's Calling and Luna's Pocket Galaxy offer a power spike much earlier or with a much greater force than other classes can attain. Turn 5 of any match is often either 2-4 Mountain Giants or mage reducing every minion in their deck to 1-mana with no additional debuff like Jepetto enforces (making them 1/1's as well), for example.
Control inherently plays against many players who don't appreciate or utilize the archetype because it doesn't feel good and isn't meant to. It's supposed to slow you down, to stop you, to nullify your aggro. They exist to stop you from reaching your goal of turn 5 lethal (or whatever your deck's goal is for lethal). It's slow, it's frustrating, and it's part of how the game balances out. Without slower, controlling decks, we would all simply face race each other or build hyper-streamlined combo deck with heavy reliance on draw mechanics. Matches would have no interaction - a common complaint against some of the most toxic decks in Hearthstone's history - and that is all control is about. Control exists because it has to interact with your cards. Everything it does loses value if it's played outside of the removal or disruption of your cards and gameplan. It's what makes control matches such lumbering, sloth-like grinds: both sides are trying to hoard resources for the most opportune moment in the match. First one to waste a card takes the biggest step toward defeat.
Warrior is a very strong control deck and powerful archetype right now, but it's not our biggest problem, let alone much of one at all. It's a class that has the tools and can use them effectively. Mage is broken. Hunter has multiple top tier decks, one of which is entirely unchanged from Rise of Shadows. Paladin currently board floods on turn 5 with murlocs and God help you if you don't have a lot of AoE.
We need to get over our piss baby crying about Dr. Boom and take a look at actual problems in Hearthstone.
Ok, send in the condescension and vitriol, people! Or if you have something constructive to say, I'd like that, too.
I understand your thought process, however it is misguided. The fact that Dr. Boom exists in its current state is "broken" in that most of the time you as the opponent are unable to have a board at the start of your turn when Dr. Boom is live due to the constant rushing mechs and almost endless removal.
Yes are control decks supposed to have strong clears, of course and be able to control the board throughout the mid to late game with removal, I am a control Paladin player since my start of HS at the end of Old Gods so I understand and prefer control. I think the inherent issue with Dr. Boom is the sheer ability the CLASS has at generating removal at such a high rate, I think similarly (but to a lesser extent) Shaman falls into this category too and a quiet contributor is Hunter...what do these 3 classes have in common...? They are the only 3 classes that have access to Hero cards. Not equal access to classes.
The fact that as Warrior you can simply slot Dr Boom into any ole Aggro build and just play Dr Boom Mad Genius start generating health, board clears and sustainability is a problem in and of itself, it has the same effect that Deathstalker Rexxar had and everyone was calling for some kind of nerf to that when every class had access to their own "broken" Death knight (yes plenty of those were garbage but you get my point lol)
I could not agree with you more about broken cards, Conjurer's Calling, busted lol the ways that Mage can cheat out mana is absolutely insane.
All in all what I think "The community" is failing to express, that what is frustrating is the fact that warrior has SO MUCH removal plus way more ways to turn ordinary garbage mechs into rushing removal cards generated by their hero power thanks to Boom...You as a competitive deck against a warrior would bait out their removal, run them out of resources then you could win...that is control Vs control...you can't do that consistently against warriors...they DONT run out of cards...then if they do...they just have Elisiana to refill or the Mechathun package and boom GG you die.
There needs to be changes made, all be it I don't know what they are, maybe take away twin spell from Conjurer's Calling, [card]Mountain Giant[card] to HOF and Boom should have Mechs in your hand and deck gain rush as some quick examples.
Open for discussion and good luck laddering y'all :)
Some of the arguments in here are starting to get a little heated, guys. Please take a breath and try and keep the ad hominem insults and insinuations out of the discussion.
Thanks!
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Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
yes Im just talking about that its still strong tier1 deck without boom, but it seems little bit more balanced. Played today 10 games in legend with taunt no-boom version. 7-3.
I think all hero cards except Jaraxxus ruining this game. All collection card games is about resource management, but HS is going wrong way, Its already not COMPETITIVE anymore and it will be not fun for casuals soon.
Im was 50/50 with rng like it was in GvG addon. But now its rly seems stupid. I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
And one more problem is "mana cheating" like CC is. Its not ramp (investing card and turn for more tempo next turns), its free board impact and even with 4 mana minion (like reborn taunt) it can win you a game in one turn.
So we can just watch what developers will do with our favourite game, I think if they wont nerf of delete cards like CC, mana cyclone, all hero cards - its way to hell.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-137/
Mage is the most popular and most successful deck in the game. Could it be their way more broken tools? No, couldn't be. Warrior is clearly the best deck based off of more inaccurate information from HSReplay with 0 meta assessment to back it up.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
off course good player will win bad player if their rng lvl is close enough. Or noone can stop u playing tier one deck with 60% winrate, so without mistakes you will climb. Im good (not best or top) player too and legend and good legend ranks never was a problem for me on meta decks.
But you should agree that Hearthstone now is more about highrolling and coin flip. Just check last tournaments and ull see. That warrior or mage mirrors. Was is about better skill? No, playing level was same or very close, it was about playing boom earlier, discover better mechs and crazy mana cyclone rolls
and they continuing adding broken cards like Zephyrs, next addon there will be no problem to make singleton card for any class, because tgere's so many cards with high power level, so u paying close to nothing.
Ofc its fun for casuals "PERFECT CARD PogChamp", but imagine to outplay it. "oh, my opponent has 6 tokens so he will get bloodlust", "i cant play deathratles cause of silence roll", "shit, cant play weapon, he will get Harrison", "cant spam board - brawl", "cant play big taunt - black Knight"
Yes, on high levels of playing ur teaching to bite enemy for using certain card, but tools like this is beyond good and evil
As opposed to the good ole' days of Piloted Shredder, Imp-losion, and Knife Juggler.
Two facts are clear:
1) There has always been RNG cards in HS
2) There have always been extremely bad players who complain about them
Boom needs to be nerfed but not to the ground. Make the mechs in your hand and deck to have rush, but not the discovered ones, and also cut the 7 armor gain to 4 (tank up), and the card will still be great, but not OP. It absolutely needs to be toned down, let’s be fair here.
Release the Kraken!
Directed at anyone and everyone who claims a certain deck requires no thought to play. It's been said many times in these forums about aggro. It comes up just about any time a deck emerges as exceptionally strong. The fact that Control Warrior is very strong DOES NOT mean that it takes no thinking to play it. If that were true, every player who owns Dr. Boom would be legend right now.
Incorrect. The only skill required to play this game is deck building and even that is mostly negated by netdecking. The absolute truth is basic math and reading is required to play Hearthstone and no more.
No one ever said that all strong decks are low-skill decks. We are saying that this particular strong deck requires no skill.
Every player with the time and desire to reach legend who owns Dr. Boom probably has reached legend with it.
If you own all the cards in the deck and were unable to reach legend last month no matter how much time you spent playing, you will never reach legend with any deck and should probably give up that dream.
This month is a different story, as there are more decks that can counter CW. So yes, it is less strong in the meta than it used to be, but that doesn't mean we should put up with a card that creates a terrible experience every time it's played. Most of us hate it because it's boring and polarizing, not because of the power level alone.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=ESvlh2YsISw
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I’m a control player who switched to aggro, because even for my taste CW mirrors are abysmal. Not only because of how long they are, but because these games basically come down to who plays Boom first, it’s unhealthy. Boom shouldn’t be that relevant.
compare it to current rng. That times loosing because of low roll or wining because of high roll - was very low % of games. It was about skill and matchups. For example compare pre-gvg or gvg CW mirror. It was only skill based. But now?
It's funny how you keep bringing the same stupid argument. So, there is place for only one OP deck in this game ? No, both are broken af. And both are way more powerfull than they should be because of a single card.
I understand your thought process, however it is misguided. The fact that Dr. Boom exists in its current state is "broken" in that most of the time you as the opponent are unable to have a board at the start of your turn when Dr. Boom is live due to the constant rushing mechs and almost endless removal.
Yes are control decks supposed to have strong clears, of course and be able to control the board throughout the mid to late game with removal, I am a control Paladin player since my start of HS at the end of Old Gods so I understand and prefer control. I think the inherent issue with Dr. Boom is the sheer ability the CLASS has at generating removal at such a high rate, I think similarly (but to a lesser extent) Shaman falls into this category too and a quiet contributor is Hunter...what do these 3 classes have in common...? They are the only 3 classes that have access to Hero cards. Not equal access to classes.
The fact that as Warrior you can simply slot Dr Boom into any ole Aggro build and just play Dr Boom Mad Genius start generating health, board clears and sustainability is a problem in and of itself, it has the same effect that Deathstalker Rexxar had and everyone was calling for some kind of nerf to that when every class had access to their own "broken" Death knight (yes plenty of those were garbage but you get my point lol)
I could not agree with you more about broken cards, Conjurer's Calling, busted lol the ways that Mage can cheat out mana is absolutely insane.
All in all what I think "The community" is failing to express, that what is frustrating is the fact that warrior has SO MUCH removal plus way more ways to turn ordinary garbage mechs into rushing removal cards generated by their hero power thanks to Boom...You as a competitive deck against a warrior would bait out their removal, run them out of resources then you could win...that is control Vs control...you can't do that consistently against warriors...they DONT run out of cards...then if they do...they just have Elisiana to refill or the Mechathun package and boom GG you die.
There needs to be changes made, all be it I don't know what they are, maybe take away twin spell from Conjurer's Calling, [card]Mountain Giant[card] to HOF and Boom should have Mechs in your hand and deck gain rush as some quick examples.
Open for discussion and good luck laddering y'all :)
hof boom or remove blast shield (pay survivability for value and control) or remove rush and discover
Some of the arguments in here are starting to get a little heated, guys.
Please take a breath and try and keep the ad hominem insults and insinuations out of the discussion.
Thanks!