The problem that I see with Control Warrior currently, is not that it is so successful against aggro. That's understandable; it's a control deck - that's what they are designed to do. But it is also so equally strong against virtually every other deck archetype in the meta as well, from midrange / tempo to combo decks. And that's pretty much heavily down to how strong a card Dr Boom is: it provides such overwhelming value for the late game that decks can't compete with it on any level.
I think the deck would still be good without Dr Boom and would certainly still be in the high tier 2 range.
All that said, however, that's just my opinion of the deck and I don't have statistics to examine and fall back on for how true that opinion is. I guess we have to rely on Blizzard to make that call. But if I were pressed on the issue, while I don't think Dr Boom necessarily needs to be Hall of Famed, I do think that it needs consideration for a change; perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
I wanna refer to Brian Kibler video again. If you do that there isn't much left on Dr. Boom then just a rondom Hero Power every turn.
I wouldn't even play him then anymore and rather keep the normal Hero Power. I would go back to the old Wallet Warrior with the Grom and Alex combo.
My problem with control warrior is, that it dominates all other control classes by a lot. Hunter and Shaman (especially Shaman) have a herocard but it cant come close to Dr Boom.
perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
I wanna refer to Brian Kibler video again. If you do that there isn't much left on Dr. Boom then just a rondom Hero Power every turn.
I wouldn't even play him then anymore and rather keep the normal Hero Power. I would go back to the old Wallet Warrior with the Grom and Alex combo.
The Hero Power alone is a magnitude of times better than the standard Warrior one, plus you get an extra 7 armour on top. But even if it was something like "The first mech you play each turn has rush", it would be better.
The Hero Power alone is a magnitude of times better than the standard Warrior one, plus you get an extra 7 armour on top. But even if it was something like "The first mech you play each turn has rush", it would be better.
Tbh, late game i don't care / wouldn't care about getting KABOOM! or Micro-Squad (without rush)...
I say that Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is indeed a very powerful card without any kind of need to get nerfed however.
Nefing this card is like killing Warrior considering the meta. So you are asking for a whole class to be thrown down to the pit.
And then what? You will start whining about how Mages are OP and how they should nerf some cards.
And then nerf another class which tops the meta etc. etc. etc.
Get on with it, Warrior is not ruling the meta. He is a Top tier deck indeed but it is not OP.
Considering game duration... Well, this is happening because Warrior has no tools to deal that much damage while controling the game. Would you like to have blizzard providing such tools as well? I think not. And i wouldnt like it either.
Get on with the idea of nerfs all the time and try to undertand how meta works each season and how a suggested nurf will affect it as a whole.
What they SHOULD do however, is to balance buff some classes that have control as a core trait of the class. Like Priest, which seems to start getting some good staff finaly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
I wanna refer to Brian Kibler video again. If you do that there isn't much left on Dr. Boom then just a rondom Hero Power every turn.
I wouldn't even play him then anymore and rather keep the normal Hero Power. I would go back to the old Wallet Warrior with the Grom and Alex combo.
Finally an intelligent comment and not the typical rant by aggro players. I only play CW because i only like control style and i have to agree with you. If control Shaman or Paladin or whatever can face CW i would play it for sure!
Instead of nerfing his anti-aggro tools like brawl, 7 armor, Dynomatic, etc. they should nerf what make him win vs other controls to allow more control decks in the meta.
My suggestion is delivery drone give a random mech, and all hero power damage cannot go face.
The problem that I see with Control Warrior currently, is not that it is so successful against aggro. That's understandable; it's a control deck - that's what they are designed to do. But it is also so equally strong against virtually every other deck archetype in the meta as well, from midrange / tempo to combo decks. And that's pretty much heavily down to how strong a card Dr Boom is: it provides such overwhelming value for the late game that decks can't compete with it on any level.
I think the deck would still be good without Dr Boom and would certainly still be in the high tier 2 range.
All that said, however, that's just my opinion of the deck and I don't have statistics to examine and fall back on for how true that opinion is. I guess we have to rely on Blizzard to make that call. But if I were pressed on the issue, while I don't think Dr Boom necessarily needs to be Hall of Famed, I do think that it needs consideration for a change; perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
This is what I touch on every time this discussion comes up. Control Warrior’s job in the meta is to curb stomp aggro, fast midrange decks (like Reynad’s original Naxx Hunter list) and finite damage combos (Freeze Mage etc) like no other deck. It is supposed to lose to greedier midrange and control decks (as it always did to Handlock, Midrange Paladin, Ramp Druid in vanilla, and later things like Control Mage, Cube/Deathrattle decks, OTKs and Quest Rogue). You used to beat Warrior by baiting out their removal and going all in when you thought they had none left in hand. Now every Mech minion becomes removal and you just can’t exhaust it all no matter how smart you apply pressure.
Unfortunately now that DBMG is a card (plus a few strong Mechs were added and weak ones buffed) and there are no viable infinite damage/destroy hero strategies available (Maly Druid can deal 60+ but is unreliable because of Florist) there are very few decks that can out value or out tempo CW in the late game. I think Highlander Hunter is slightly favoured, super greedy Mage lists are slightly favoured and Quest Paladin (the current best control killer but generally very poor deck until more than 1 control strategy is viable), everything else has a really hard time because one card offers an insane amount of value. Please stop arguing that only the delivery drone hero power generates value. Creating 3 1/1s with rush at the cost of 2 mana and 0 cards is value. Dealing 3 damage to the board for 2 mana and 0 cards is value. Having 7 armour available so shield slam doesn’t become dead post Boom is value. Dealing 1 damage to the opponent’s entire board is value. These hero powers are all better than +2 armour the majority of the time except Kaboom, which is still relevant a lot of the time.
I really enjoyed playing Odd Warrior vs Midrange Hunter during the BDP era for the insane, extremely grindy, knife’s edge Boom vs Deathstalker value games (most believe this favoured the Hunter massively but at a reasonable level of play it was very 50/50). Now that there’s no Rexxar to play against (or other DKs/other insane value stuff from year of the Mammoth) it really shows how over the top Boom is compared to everything else we have available to us.
Warrior now has a decent proactive late game in buffed Tomb Wardens, which can be built upon moving forwards, the need for it to out value and out resource everything is no longer there. Removing Boom from the game is actually a very reasonable move at this point.
Boom is better than half of the DKs, namely Shaman, Warrior, Rogue, Paladin and post-Raza Priest. I'd say he's at least even with Jaina and would beat her thanks to resource generation that doesn't have a condition. Plus rush and Armor would beat health in a fatigue match. There's no way he's also weaker than Malfurion DK.
He would only lose to Rexxar.
Gul'dan has a flashy battlecry and powerful hero power, but then again, Warriors beat Warlocks with Gul'dan without even needing Boom. Quest Warrior also beat Gul'dan DKs, specially Control ones, all day. Warrior only lost to Mecha'thun Warlock.
So there's only Rexxar that would regularly beat Boom.
The reason Boom wasn't shining back then wasn't because of Death Knights. It was because it was a full Combo meta with no disruption available.
Ecxept for that minor rant about the dk's where you are Just plain wrong about them being too strong i can't agree more
I took a Quick look at the replies and i am baffled,disappointed and sad that there are still people stupid enough to call boom infinite value,let's take a look,each turn you have,for 2 mana:
1)25% chance to deal 1 dmg to all enemies (scary right?)
2)25% chance to deal 3 dmg to a target (oh no,a fire elemental w/o a body)
3)25% chance to summon 3 1/1's with rush, ok not bad, but not much
4)25% chance to get 7 armor. Good,WOULD be broken of It weren't for the other 4
5)25% chance to Discover a mech with rush.Same,would be broken,too bad there are 4 others
Now let's see what you Need in order to have for infinite value based on how this game Is designed:
Something that can be played each turn and does something good for you over and over again REGARDELESS OF BOARDSTATE until at least the turn limit Is hit
Something to prevent you from fatigueing or healing/armor that your opponent can't stop in ANY way that makes sure said fatigue damage doesn't kill you(you know,you can't go infinite if you have 0 health)
I don't know about you but boom doesn't even have 1 of these things so please....stop😊
Ecxept for that minor rant about the dk's where you are Just plain wrong about them being too strong i can't agree more
I took a Quick look at the replies and i am baffled,disappointed and sad that there are still people stupid enough to call boom infinite value,let's take a look,each turn you have,for 2 mana:
1)25% chance to deal 1 dmg to all enemies (scary right?)
2)25% chance to deal 3 dmg to a target (oh no,a fire elemental w/o a body)
3)25% chance to summon 3 1/1's with rush, ok not bad, but not much
4)25% chance to get 7 armor. Good,WOULD be broken of It weren't for the other 4
5)25% chance to Discover a mech with rush.Same,would be broken,too bad there are 4 others
Now let's see what you Need in order to have for infinite value based on how this game Is designed:
Something that can be played each turn and does something good for you over and over again REGARDELESS OF BOARDSTATE until at least the turn limit Is hit
Something to prevent you from fatigueing or healing/armor that your opponent can't stop in ANY way that makes sure said fatigue damage doesn't kill you(you know,you can't go infinite if you have 0 health)
I don't know about you but boom doesn't even have 1 of these things so please....stop😊
It's almost like the nigh-impossible potential for infinite with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is enough to stand in for actual infinite value, like Deathstalker Rexxar,Jade Idol, and Shudderwock. I guess if you always swapped between Delivery Drone and Blast Shield exclusively make that argument, but the odds of that are so small that it's not a logical argument, even if it's happened a few dozen times in the hundreds of thousands of games recorded with Boom played in them (or the possible millions of games unrecorded). honestly, my complaint with Boom is the armor gain and (even more so a problem imo) that Omega Devastator is a mech and thus discoverable.
Also, my comment about the DK's power was specifically that they defined the meta and created games determined not by the cards in your hand so much as the hero power you could use as much as possible (which is why Deathstalker Rexxar only grew in power over time while others either stagnated or decreased as new cards came out). They determined too much how the game was played, particularly Rexxar, who became a hunter auto-include solely because it was like turning your midrange deck into a control deck with more resources than warrior. That's way too much power for a card to have, and even though they dropped out of relevance pretty rapidly, while they were around the DK's determined how everyone built their decks and played the game. Thus, I think they were too strong as a whole (but specific cards were clearly much weaker, as we saw over time in standard).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Infinite value has nothing to do with either board state, health/armour or fatigue. That's not what the term refers to. It refers to the ability to always be able to generate resources (of any kind) without the need for a card cost beforehand. This can be in the form of extra cards, armour, or damage. (Or some other things also). Does Dr Boom provide this? Yes. In the same way that Deathstalker Rexxar did.
While I agree warrior is very strong in control, they lack ways to finish the game minus fatigue. After much debate yesterday, I think changing Dr Boom hero card to "for the rest of the game give the mechs in your deck rush" that way omega assembly minions or the discover hero power doesnt have the rush. I think the mech rush is the biggest problem right now, it's broken.
Also it's still early into the meta, if the next major HS tournament is only warrior and mage kind of like last season, I can see a warrant for warrior to be looked at. But, it's still early, we havent figured out the best decks yet. I can easily see a reborn or deathrattle deck OWNING control warriors. But until its figured out just gotta go with it.
Ecxept for that minor rant about the dk's where you are Just plain wrong about them being too strong i can't agree more
I took a Quick look at the replies and i am baffled,disappointed and sad that there are still people stupid enough to call boom infinite value,let's take a look,each turn you have,for 2 mana:
1)25% chance to deal 1 dmg to all enemies (scary right?)
2)25% chance to deal 3 dmg to a target (oh no,a fire elemental w/o a body)
3)25% chance to summon 3 1/1's with rush, ok not bad, but not much
4)25% chance to get 7 armor. Good,WOULD be broken of It weren't for the other 4
5)25% chance to Discover a mech with rush.Same,would be broken,too bad there are 4 others
Now let's see what you Need in order to have for infinite value based on how this game Is designed:
Something that can be played each turn and does something good for you over and over again REGARDELESS OF BOARDSTATE until at least the turn limit Is hit
Something to prevent you from fatigueing or healing/armor that your opponent can't stop in ANY way that makes sure said fatigue damage doesn't kill you(you know,you can't go infinite if you have 0 health)
I don't know about you but boom doesn't even have 1 of these things so please....stop😊
It's almost like the nigh-impossible potential for infinite with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is enough to stand in for actual infinite value, like Deathstalker Rexxar,Jade Idol, and Shudderwock. I guess if you always swapped between Delivery Drone and Blast Shield exclusively make that argument, but the odds of that are so small that it's not a logical argument, even if it's happened a few dozen times in the hundreds of thousands of games recorded with Boom played in them (or the possible millions of games unrecorded). honestly, my complaint with Boom is the armor gain and (even more so a problem imo) that Omega Devastator is a mech and thus discoverable.
Also, my comment about the DK's power was specifically that they defined the meta and created games determined not by the cards in your hand so much as the hero power you could use as much as possible (which is why Deathstalker Rexxar only grew in power over time while others either stagnated or decreased as new cards came out). They determined too much how the game was played, particularly Rexxar, who became a hunter auto-include solely because it was like turning your midrange deck into a control deck with more resources than warrior. That's way too much power for a card to have, and even though they dropped out of relevance pretty rapidly, while they were around the DK's determined how everyone built their decks and played the game. Thus, I think they were too strong as a whole (but specific cards were clearly much weaker, as we saw over time in standard).
Sorry to burst you bubble there but DBMG Is absolutely nothing compared to the cards you listed and actually even Rexxar Is not really there (while still being super strong) since even he gets rekt by the great equalizer that Is fatigue
As for that "swapping between delivery drone/blast shield only" case you made I actually challenge you to link a game where that came even close to happening
For the DK's part,exept for Rexxar which was in any non odd hunter all the others only worked in the specific archetype they were designed to fit in,if that's not fine than let's stop having strong buidaround cards like Hero cards,quests,Reno and Company,and Just put 30 random cards that kinda have a similar purpose in a deck with no themes nor flavour nor anything
Rexxar was REALLY strong and still Is in wild to a lower extent i'll give you that but a well constructed grindy deck both in wild and (in the past) in standard had a very good chance to beat him,I for One have barely ever Lost a value war vs him with any slow deck i ever played
Infinite value has nothing to do with either board state, health/armour or fatigue. That's not what the term refers to. It refers to the ability to always be able to generate resources (of any kind) without the need for a card cost beforehand. This can be in the form of extra cards, armour, or damage. (Or some other things also). Does Dr Boom provide this? Yes. In the same way that Deathstalker Rexxar did.
Actually no,infinite value Also requires you to never die from fatigue (the "not die from opponent"part falls in OTK) and neither One of the cards you listed does that
It's always good to see complains on Boom by people who abused Jaina, GUldan and Rexxar DKS for years.
The problem that I see with Control Warrior currently, is not that it is so successful against aggro. That's understandable; it's a control deck - that's what they are designed to do.
But it is also so equally strong against virtually every other deck archetype in the meta as well, from midrange / tempo to combo decks.
And that's pretty much heavily down to how strong a card Dr Boom is: it provides such overwhelming value for the late game that decks can't compete with it on any level.
I think the deck would still be good without Dr Boom and would certainly still be in the high tier 2 range.
All that said, however, that's just my opinion of the deck and I don't have statistics to examine and fall back on for how true that opinion is. I guess we have to rely on Blizzard to make that call. But if I were pressed on the issue, while I don't think Dr Boom necessarily needs to be Hall of Famed, I do think that it needs consideration for a change; perhaps even just removing the rush for all mechs would do the trick. A small change, but one that lower the power just enough to make it less oppressive.
I wanna refer to Brian Kibler video again. If you do that there isn't much left on Dr. Boom then just a rondom Hero Power every turn.
I wouldn't even play him then anymore and rather keep the normal Hero Power. I would go back to the old Wallet Warrior with the Grom and Alex combo.
My problem with control warrior is, that it dominates all other control classes by a lot. Hunter and Shaman (especially Shaman) have a herocard but it cant come close to Dr Boom.
The Hero Power alone is a magnitude of times better than the standard Warrior one, plus you get an extra 7 armour on top.
But even if it was something like "The first mech you play each turn has rush", it would be better.
Tbh, late game i don't care / wouldn't care about getting KABOOM! or Micro-Squad (without rush)...
I say that Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is indeed a very powerful card without any kind of need to get nerfed however.
Nefing this card is like killing Warrior considering the meta. So you are asking for a whole class to be thrown down to the pit.
And then what? You will start whining about how Mages are OP and how they should nerf some cards.
And then nerf another class which tops the meta etc. etc. etc.
Get on with it, Warrior is not ruling the meta. He is a Top tier deck indeed but it is not OP.
Considering game duration... Well, this is happening because Warrior has no tools to deal that much damage while controling the game. Would you like to have blizzard providing such tools as well? I think not. And i wouldnt like it either.
Get on with the idea of nerfs all the time and try to undertand how meta works each season and how a suggested nurf will affect it as a whole.
What they SHOULD do however, is to balance buff some classes that have control as a core trait of the class. Like Priest, which seems to start getting some good staff finaly.
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
Finally an intelligent comment and not the typical rant by aggro players. I only play CW because i only like control style and i have to agree with you. If control Shaman or Paladin or whatever can face CW i would play it for sure!
Instead of nerfing his anti-aggro tools like brawl, 7 armor, Dynomatic, etc. they should nerf what make him win vs other controls to allow more control decks in the meta.
My suggestion is delivery drone give a random mech, and all hero power damage cannot go face.
This is what I touch on every time this discussion comes up. Control Warrior’s job in the meta is to curb stomp aggro, fast midrange decks (like Reynad’s original Naxx Hunter list) and finite damage combos (Freeze Mage etc) like no other deck. It is supposed to lose to greedier midrange and control decks (as it always did to Handlock, Midrange Paladin, Ramp Druid in vanilla, and later things like Control Mage, Cube/Deathrattle decks, OTKs and Quest Rogue). You used to beat Warrior by baiting out their removal and going all in when you thought they had none left in hand. Now every Mech minion becomes removal and you just can’t exhaust it all no matter how smart you apply pressure.
Unfortunately now that DBMG is a card (plus a few strong Mechs were added and weak ones buffed) and there are no viable infinite damage/destroy hero strategies available (Maly Druid can deal 60+ but is unreliable because of Florist) there are very few decks that can out value or out tempo CW in the late game. I think Highlander Hunter is slightly favoured, super greedy Mage lists are slightly favoured and Quest Paladin (the current best control killer but generally very poor deck until more than 1 control strategy is viable), everything else has a really hard time because one card offers an insane amount of value. Please stop arguing that only the delivery drone hero power generates value. Creating 3 1/1s with rush at the cost of 2 mana and 0 cards is value. Dealing 3 damage to the board for 2 mana and 0 cards is value. Having 7 armour available so shield slam doesn’t become dead post Boom is value. Dealing 1 damage to the opponent’s entire board is value. These hero powers are all better than +2 armour the majority of the time except Kaboom, which is still relevant a lot of the time.
I really enjoyed playing Odd Warrior vs Midrange Hunter during the BDP era for the insane, extremely grindy, knife’s edge Boom vs Deathstalker value games (most believe this favoured the Hunter massively but at a reasonable level of play it was very 50/50). Now that there’s no Rexxar to play against (or other DKs/other insane value stuff from year of the Mammoth) it really shows how over the top Boom is compared to everything else we have available to us.
Warrior now has a decent proactive late game in buffed Tomb Wardens, which can be built upon moving forwards, the need for it to out value and out resource everything is no longer there. Removing Boom from the game is actually a very reasonable move at this point.
If nerfing a card would destroy a deck then that card is OP.
Lol people willing to feed an obvious low-IQ troll, feelsbadman!
Boom is better than half of the DKs, namely Shaman, Warrior, Rogue, Paladin and post-Raza Priest. I'd say he's at least even with Jaina and would beat her thanks to resource generation that doesn't have a condition. Plus rush and Armor would beat health in a fatigue match. There's no way he's also weaker than Malfurion DK.
He would only lose to Rexxar.
Gul'dan has a flashy battlecry and powerful hero power, but then again, Warriors beat Warlocks with Gul'dan without even needing Boom. Quest Warrior also beat Gul'dan DKs, specially Control ones, all day. Warrior only lost to Mecha'thun Warlock.
So there's only Rexxar that would regularly beat Boom.
The reason Boom wasn't shining back then wasn't because of Death Knights. It was because it was a full Combo meta with no disruption available.
Wish I could like twice
THANK YOU!!!
Ecxept for that minor rant about the dk's where you are Just plain wrong about them being too strong i can't agree more
I took a Quick look at the replies and i am baffled,disappointed and sad that there are still people stupid enough to call boom infinite value,let's take a look,each turn you have,for 2 mana:
1)25% chance to deal 1 dmg to all enemies (scary right?)
2)25% chance to deal 3 dmg to a target (oh no,a fire elemental w/o a body)
3)25% chance to summon 3 1/1's with rush, ok not bad, but not much
4)25% chance to get 7 armor. Good,WOULD be broken of It weren't for the other 4
5)25% chance to Discover a mech with rush.Same,would be broken,too bad there are 4 others
Now let's see what you Need in order to have for infinite value based on how this game Is designed:
Something that can be played each turn and does something good for you over and over again REGARDELESS OF BOARDSTATE until at least the turn limit Is hit
Something to prevent you from fatigueing or healing/armor that your opponent can't stop in ANY way that makes sure said fatigue damage doesn't kill you(you know,you can't go infinite if you have 0 health)
I don't know about you but boom doesn't even have 1 of these things so please....stop😊
It's almost like the nigh-impossible potential for infinite with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is enough to stand in for actual infinite value, like Deathstalker Rexxar,Jade Idol, and Shudderwock. I guess if you always swapped between Delivery Drone and Blast Shield exclusively make that argument, but the odds of that are so small that it's not a logical argument, even if it's happened a few dozen times in the hundreds of thousands of games recorded with Boom played in them (or the possible millions of games unrecorded). honestly, my complaint with Boom is the armor gain and (even more so a problem imo) that Omega Devastator is a mech and thus discoverable.
Also, my comment about the DK's power was specifically that they defined the meta and created games determined not by the cards in your hand so much as the hero power you could use as much as possible (which is why Deathstalker Rexxar only grew in power over time while others either stagnated or decreased as new cards came out). They determined too much how the game was played, particularly Rexxar, who became a hunter auto-include solely because it was like turning your midrange deck into a control deck with more resources than warrior. That's way too much power for a card to have, and even though they dropped out of relevance pretty rapidly, while they were around the DK's determined how everyone built their decks and played the game. Thus, I think they were too strong as a whole (but specific cards were clearly much weaker, as we saw over time in standard).
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Infinite value has nothing to do with either board state, health/armour or fatigue.
That's not what the term refers to.
It refers to the ability to always be able to generate resources (of any kind) without the need for a card cost beforehand. This can be in the form of extra cards, armour, or damage. (Or some other things also).
Does Dr Boom provide this? Yes. In the same way that Deathstalker Rexxar did.
-100 points for the "fanboy" ad hominem.
While I agree warrior is very strong in control, they lack ways to finish the game minus fatigue. After much debate yesterday, I think changing Dr Boom hero card to "for the rest of the game give the mechs in your deck rush" that way omega assembly minions or the discover hero power doesnt have the rush. I think the mech rush is the biggest problem right now, it's broken.
Also it's still early into the meta, if the next major HS tournament is only warrior and mage kind of like last season, I can see a warrant for warrior to be looked at. But, it's still early, we havent figured out the best decks yet. I can easily see a reborn or deathrattle deck OWNING control warriors. But until its figured out just gotta go with it.
Sorry to burst you bubble there but DBMG Is absolutely nothing compared to the cards you listed and actually even Rexxar Is not really there (while still being super strong) since even he gets rekt by the great equalizer that Is fatigue
As for that "swapping between delivery drone/blast shield only" case you made I actually challenge you to link a game where that came even close to happening
For the DK's part,exept for Rexxar which was in any non odd hunter all the others only worked in the specific archetype they were designed to fit in,if that's not fine than let's stop having strong buidaround cards like Hero cards,quests,Reno and Company,and Just put 30 random cards that kinda have a similar purpose in a deck with no themes nor flavour nor anything
Rexxar was REALLY strong and still Is in wild to a lower extent i'll give you that but a well constructed grindy deck both in wild and (in the past) in standard had a very good chance to beat him,I for One have barely ever Lost a value war vs him with any slow deck i ever played
Actually no,infinite value Also requires you to never die from fatigue (the "not die from opponent"part falls in OTK) and neither One of the cards you listed does that