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One consideration I don't see many players taking when posting about the "control on top" subject is that many players only get short intervals to play inn their daily schedules so aggro (or faster-paced decks) may be all the time they have to spend on one of their favorite games.
I personally love to play a quick game or two while on my break from work everyday, but every time I run into a Warrior I simply have to take my loss and concede because I don't have the time to play out the match.
What I would love most would be a mid range viable meta (think Elementals in Un'Goro, which also saw limited play) with average 15 minute games. Not 30.
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The point he is making is you don’t have to carefully plan and manage your resources when you play Control Warrior, because you have more resources than any deck (aside from Quest Paladin) can generate threats, mostly due to the fact that 4 out of 5 of Dr. Boom’s hero powers can be used to impact the board and his Rush aura turns half of your minions into removal as well 🙃 the game plan against control decks as any non-combo archetype is to bait out removals with cost effective threats and finish them when they run dry. You cannot do this against the current iteration of Control Warrior because the hero card gives it access to too many answers.
Warning: this definitely belongs in the salt forum but long story short warrior should not be able to clear the board this many times. read it if you want i don't really care but this shit needs to be dealt with.
Just played against the dumbest control warrior ever and he still won. I am playing quest rez priest. nothing really happened in the game until turn 9 because my opponent wouldn't go face to prevent me from completing my quest which was smart. First mass rez brings back vargoth, infiltrator, and mosh'ogg enforcer x 2. he top decks brawl and clears the rest with dynomatic. I'm thinking cool he got lucky but there goes his first brawl. Then i play a few psychopomps which bring back vargoth and waterbearer. he clears those with warpath and another dynomatic. He proceeds to use his shield blocks and keeps drawing cards which is stupid in a control matchup. I use second mass rez and get shitty results and he clears with 2 discovered omega devastators. he thinks he has me beat and just starts going face with tiny mechs. he play elysianna and gets plague of wrath, brawl, conjured mirage (3/10 taunt that prevents fatigue), and mind controller tech x 2. Little does he know i have chef nomi and elysianna as well. So i play 3 straight chef nomi's from seance and he clears each of them with his second brawl which i expected, then top decks plague of wrath and combos with warpath for second clear, then top decks discovered brawl and clears the third board. I then play my elysianna and he only has 3 cards left in deck but now he cant fatigue and i can't build anymore boards big enough to be a threat. through that entire game i was not able to have a single minion hold the board and attack his face.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
with the existence of the current Warrior it gives no incentive for other Control players to try other classes because Warrior just has the nuts, Shaman can out fatigue the Warrior and has some decent clears and minions to run, but is it worth sitting 45 - 60 minutes for a single game, no.
You could play a Control vs Control match up 2/3 years ago without it being 45 minutes or a snooze fest.
The problem is Warrior and Mage both have been on the top of the meta game for 2 expansions now, it's all the same shit uninteractive bullshit that makes the game stale and inevitably dying out, I agree that Lunas PG and Conjurers Calling are broken however, now you're probably going to tell me that Control Warrior is interactive, but the deck is just removal after removal after removal, Dr Boom, Discover Omega Devastator 5 times until you get to fatigue and then play Elysiana to win the fatigue game, that isn't interactive at all.
I love how a brainless Warrior is calling out Mage being broken but then defends Warrior (given the highest WR on ladder currently), yet it is one of its worst match ups for Warrior, it's almost like you want nothing to be able to beat Warrior so you defend it and call out Mage.
You're right it's definitely an unpopular opinion, because there are more people with common sense in the world than there are retards, bring back the days of Handlock, where you actually needed a brain to play control instead of just having a deck full of removal and broken discoveries.
written by a guy who obviously plays priest... wtf? ^__°
just HoF dr boom
damn so many nobrain Cw fans that talking about aggro.
Guys, remember old CW, when fatigue was a thing, when mirror match was skilled and intresting, not random clown fiesta. In that times I liked this deck and respected Cw players
but now CW with boom is rly nobrain cancer.
yes, unlimited removals and rushing mechs is a problem.
warrior have so many tools, so no need to nerf everything, jus t hof boom
Beta Control player here. Warrior is my favourite class. But DBMG warriors is the worst deck to happen to warrior (close tie to hearing “everyone get in here”.. lol). The main difference between patron warrior and new mech warrior is that patron was silly and kinda so busted you had to laugh. Plus it was dealt with fast, devs knew it was too busted and nerfed it. This new warrior is boring, toxic, and extremely brainless. People always says that aggro uses no skill, but I promise you this warrior requires faaaaar less. OP is either feigning ignorance or in denial.
Ready for nerfs so warrior can have some variation again.
THIS. I miss watching tournaments with Handlock, Ramp Druid, and old Control Burst Warrior.
Mage is a bigger problem overall than Warrior. Aside from the perennial brokenness of Mountain Giant resulting in easy wins with CC, the amount of random garbage they can conjure out of thin air obliterates any hope of counterplay. And for some reason Mages generating random spells wasn't enough - if I see one more Antonidas off Messenger Raven I'm going to lose my mind. Creating random spells (as well as even more crap like duplicating their starting hand) just means a frustrating time for their opponent. Ironically the Mage's suite of complete rng nonsense usually has the same conclusion: getting stomped by some giant 1 mana minion.
This isn't to say Warriors are perfectly fine. There's basically no reason to not run the Mech package with Dr Boom if you're playing Warrior. Suggestions like only giving Rush to Mechs in your deck are good, and something needs to happen with control Warrior's redundant suite of tools (a board wide Execute for 5 mana? Really?). But it shouldn't happen without nerfs to Mages.
Very cool how you use "retard" like it's 1994. Very classy.
also funny how control is brainless because it's got the top win rate. So is that a rule or just for control? Pretty sure before warrior got usable control tools and a meta that isn't anti-control (hyper aggro, combo) no one would say that. But now that there are good control tools, control - the reactive, strategic style of play - is somehow brainless. Amazing how that works out for everyone who cries when they think one card is persecuting them.
Warrior is control, and by definition it's entirely interactive. All it does it interact with your board - that's the definition. Non-interactive would be murloc paladin, or mage just freezing you out until Luna's pulls enough stuff to overpower your attempts to clear their board (or Tony shows up to give them fireballs). A deck that exists solely to remove threats from the board is by definition interactive, so I'm not sure what dictionary you're using, but if it's got your name in the back and it's all written in crayon, stop by a library or any book store and pick up Webster's. Control warrior doesn't ignore your game plan and just do it's own thing; it relies on your game plan to do things. Inherently interactive.
or you could ask any pro what the most non-interactive decks in hearthstone have been. None are actual control decks - combo, aggro, OTK, all those can be non-interactive because they just want one thing: face damage. Ignore the board whenever you can and push toward lethal or your draw into the combo.
warrior is without a question the only real control game in town. That's not a warrior problem, that's a priest and mage problem, a warlock problem, a shaman problem. Warrior is considered "the control class" by blizzard, hence the control tools. The mech pool is busted good and hasn't been given the nerf it needs with extremely bad mechs. Boom having armor in his hero power rotation is something I think they should ditch because now there's no sacrifice, just 5 more armor every 3-5 turns than the base power gives. I'd be glad to see a change to Boom, but he's not the biggest problem and everyone who is so up in arms about this card rarely if ever mentions the worst offenders in warrior: Omega Devastator and Assembly (as you pointed out in part, tho you only tied it to Boom). Dev shouldn't be a mech, plain and simple. The mech pool is too good for Assembly to frequently hit bad options in standard, no question.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
No question. I'd take a small nerf to Boom, remove Devastator from the mech pool, and add in the mana-increases for Conj. and Luna's. Mage's spell pool is similar to the mech pool: given the existing meta, they're way better than they should be.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Again someone’s valid opinion has been completely misunderstood or twisted. Control is not brainless and no one is saying it is. Control Warrior specifically is brainless because you are literally packing more removal than most opponents can produce threats against you. Reactive play style should be about carefully managing your resources to line up against the opponent’s threats, but in Warrior’s case there is no need to do so because in addition to a removal heavy deck (this is not an issue) they have one hero card with hero powers that can either; kill a minion with 3 or less health, create three 1/1s (that’s more than the absurdly broken Baku paladin hero power, and they also have Rush) to clear 1-3 small minions or in the case of an empty board leave them there to use later, deal 1AoE to the board to finish off weakened minions or set up Plague of Wrath, discover a Mech (which has rush and may also have further removal built into it i.e.Omega Devastator/Dynomatic), or gain 7 armour to set up a shield slam on a mid-large minion. On top of these, every mech you generate or is in your deck also becomes removal because it can attack right away.
Please recognise this very obvious problem. This immortality button is ruining Control Warrior for a lot of us players who really respect the original CW concept from back in the day. Remove Boom and the deck still functions to a high level, you just need to actually use a bit of brain.
warrior players should try play their deck without boom, just few games in rank5 or higher.
Its still playable, its still can counter aggro and outvalue some control decks. With new taunt pack (2-2 discovee, twin mech and armagedildo) you'll have good minion based lategame and ofc you can play elysianna when meta is slow.
Its good enough and in a right place without freakin boom on turn 7
plus now warrior have very powerful ealy game as never before with OP 1 drops, weapon project, rushes, 2 dmg aoe (warpath) on turn 4, dynomatic turn 5 etc.
CW rly can play minions on curve and its very powerful, because all of them control based. I rly think with new card set (sou) including taunts and new aoe dr boom SHOULD be HoFed.
and Im not 'aggro' player, im playing since rekeare, got many legends on warrior, but now it isnt right place, when control class is nobrain cancer because of one card
Omega devastator and 1 mana mana 3 mechs is extremely powerful too, but we should just watxw how its go after hofing boom
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ModeratorIts a nice idea, but why would they when DBMG is so strong and removing him weakens the deck? Most people play to win so take the strongest options. Thats to be expected.
It doesn't even make sense that Devastator is a mech. Heck, it's a friggin Goblin in a mecha suit, similar to Boom himself. Take Tomb Warden which is a brand new card, this one is clearly distinguishable as a mech. As you suggested, they should either fill the mech pool with crap so bad outcomes (regardless of that Omega Assembly is a borderline broken card but I guess they deem it fine) happen more often or (preferable) change Devastator so an opponent only has to prepare himself for two instead of another randomly generated 2-4 copies.
Also, I still would like to see Delivery Drone changed. Due to Booms chaotic nature he shouldn't be able to discover additional mechs. Let it be "add a random mech to your hand" so he won't be able to get class-specific cards on a regular basis (the bonus chance to get those in mind)
Regarding Mage, increase the mana cost of CC from 3 to 4 so the giant onslaught (pun intended) is delayed by a turn. No more turn 4/5 CC + Khadgar = full board of 8/8s bullshit similar to Naga Giants Lock. Yea, Murloc Paladin is another highroll deck capable to flood the board early on but their minions are much easier to be dealt with. Increase the cost of LPG from 5 to 6. It's been unplayable at 7 and arguably broken at 5, so 6 seems to be the perfect number.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
You’re making his point for him. He is saying they should try without to realize that he is an over the top addition to an already very strong deck. Hence people crying out for this deck being too much.
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ModeratorMaybe I didn't word my question very well.
(Also, I was agreeing with him - that's why I said it was a nice idea, but not a practical suggestion. :-D )
What I was saying was: the biggest complaint about Control Warrior (for the most part) revolves around Dr Boom being too strong. Kadadji posited the idea that people should try CW without Doctor Boom to see how strong it still is (I agree it would still be strong and the removal wouldn't ruin the deck).
However, Doctor Boom takes a deck from being "a very good deck" to an "excessively good deck" - the main point being that it provides a huge advantage. Human nature is such that in a competitive game, people want to win, so obviously they will choose the better deck to do so. There is no incentive for players to leave out Dr Boom currently because it is too strong.
If DB was brought down in power level to a more acceptable state (or HoF'd for example), then it would open scope for players to experiment with versions that dont' include him.