I find the problem doesn't seem to be getting LPG on turn 5. Being a legendary card, the variance of this should be pretty low - a bit like getting Keleseth back in the day. It's likelihood of being bottom of the pack kept it balanced.
For me, the real problem right now is this card:
Especially since you can put two of these in your deck, it raises the chance of getting an early LPG HUGELY - having tried it, I tend to see LPG in the list a lot of times. For me, this is the card that is the cause of the real issues with Mage, not Luna's.
there is a rule for discover-effects that legendary cards show up more often than others - that is the reason you get the legendary spell offered so often - it was the same with the legendary paladin taunts discovered by Stonehill Defender
I find the problem doesn't seem to be getting LPG on turn 5. Being a legendary card, the variance of this should be pretty low - a bit like getting Keleseth back in the day. It's likelihood of being bottom of the pack kept it balanced.
For me, the real problem right now is this card:
Especially since you can put two of these in your deck, it raises the chance of getting an early LPG HUGELY - having tried it, I tend to see LPG in the list a lot of times. For me, this is the card that is the cause of the real issues with Mage, not Luna's.
I totally understand where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I'd argue that Luna's is most certainly the problem card when players are tempted to run two copies of Vulpera Scoundrel just to increase their chances of getting it by turn 4 or 5. Scoundrel is a semi-decent card in its own right but generally speaking its just a filler for Highlander decks, since its not particularly synergistic with any specific strategy (other than Quest Shaman) but is just about better than the average unplayed 3 drop. The fact that a card with such a mediocre power level is being run in pairs because it can find Galaxy (this is even worth doing despite making the actual Galaxy in your deck a dead draw) speaks volumes to Pocket Galaxy's power.
The comparison to Keleseth makes sense, but the fact that he was a 1 of didn't balance him in the slightest, it just made his ludicrously lopsided effect less consistent - This did not help the millions of people who had him dropped on turn 2 against them - cards with this high a mulligan win rate simply should not exist. No one wants a game to be decided by a single card drawn by turn X no matter how rarely it happens.
In summary, both Prince Keleseth and Luna's Pocket Galaxy unfairly punish your opponent simply by appearing in your opening hand/mulligan. Whether this happens in 25% of games or 35% of games, or even just 5% of games it still is not acceptable for a game become so lopsided based on drawing one specific card. Luna's has a 70 (SEVENTY) percent mulligan win rate, realistically no card should be that high.
This. Two days ago I tried to explain the same to someone while I was watching Firebats stream. The first responses (mind you, it's Twitch chat) were along the lines of "said who?" ... "CoolStoryBob" .,. "who are you to decide that legendary cards shouldn't have such a high impact?"
I guess some people are just idiots who are okay with clearly unbalanced card design or they even prefer cards like Barnes to be able to highroll into victory. As you said, no "5 mana, do nothing" spell should be able to drastically improve your win rate just by showing up in your opening hand, similar to Dr. Boom which shows comparable stats. In regards to Keleseth, I loathed that card so much that I refused to spend dust on him. Yeah, might have costed me some ranked stars by not being able to play some of the Spiteful abominations but I didn't want to support such terrible card design.
No card should allow you to make 40 mana turns. Mage is capable of turning a game literally in any loosing situation. And this happens pretty often because of decent card draw and other mana cheating cards like Kalecgos, CC, Giants etc...
People are mad about the Genius, but compared to mage it feels more fair to play against.
Interestingly, it is Control Warrior that is allowing Mage to be so powerful right now. Because of how supremely popular CW is, it is effectively making aggro decks almost pointless to play since they have little to no chance of beating CW. And that has meant that Mage has been able to shine against Control Warrior because the worst thing you can do against Luna Mage is to sit back and hope to get to fatigue (CW Game Plan). Because mage gets hopelessly destroyed by aggro decks. (Barring perhaps a supremely lucky-RnG Turn 4 Luna into King Pharaoh turn 5 with a hand full of spells that creates a board of taunts)
Once CW is (hopefully) fixed by the upcoming nerfs, I would expect a resurgence of Aggro decks once more. And then we'll see how "powerful" a 5-mana-do-nothing spell is against seas of murlocs, zoo-minions and Reborn minions. :-)
I like the card, I play much it, but I cannot deny that OPness, I think should nerf the way it alter the costs, maybe make every minion cost 3 (even if it is in your hand) like the rogue quest works....
Interestingly, it is Control Warrior that is allowing Mage to be so powerful right now. Because of how supremely popular CW is, it is effectively making aggro decks almost pointless to play since they have little to no chance of beating CW. And that has meant that Mage has been able to shine against Control Warrior because the worst thing you can do against Luna Mage is to sit back and hope to get to fatigue (CW Game Plan). Because mage gets hopelessly destroyed by aggro decks. (Barring perhaps a supremely lucky-RnG Turn 4 Luna into King Pharaoh turn 5 with a hand full of spells that creates a board of taunts)
Once CW is (hopefully) fixed by the upcoming nerfs, I would expect a resurgence of Aggro decks once more. And then we'll see how "powerful" a 5-mana-do-nothing spell is against seas of murlocs, zoo-minions and Reborn minions. :-)
Its just trading one form of oppressive Archtype for another.
Interestingly, it is Control Warrior that is allowing Mage to be so powerful right now. Because of how supremely popular CW is, it is effectively making aggro decks almost pointless to play since they have little to no chance of beating CW. And that has meant that Mage has been able to shine against Control Warrior because the worst thing you can do against Luna Mage is to sit back and hope to get to fatigue (CW Game Plan). Because mage gets hopelessly destroyed by aggro decks. (Barring perhaps a supremely lucky-RnG Turn 4 Luna into King Pharaoh turn 5 with a hand full of spells that creates a board of taunts)
Once CW is (hopefully) fixed by the upcoming nerfs, I would expect a resurgence of Aggro decks once more. And then we'll see how "powerful" a 5-mana-do-nothing spell is against seas of murlocs, zoo-minions and Reborn minions. :-)
This is exactly how it often feels to play Luna against aggro and even midrange. 5 mana do nothing, and more often than not, die.
there is a rule for discover-effects that legendary cards show up more often than others - that is the reason you get the legendary spell offered so often - it was the same with the legendary paladin taunts discovered by Stonehill Defender
I don't think that's true generally, is it? I thought it was only true for the Elise pack.
The reason the legendaries showed up so often in Paladin was because discover weighs class cards more highly, and at the time, something like 3 of the 4 of the Paladin legendaries were taunt minions, and those were the only taunt minions in the class, aside from righteous protector.
My only observation is that, as a rogue main, almost invariably when LPG is played against me on turn 5 I lose and when it's not played by turn 10 I win. I don't know what that means but it doesn't sound good for Hearthstone in general. I'm not the smartest guy but it seems like an awfully big swing card
I play a lot of mage. You have to be aggro enough so that it's very awkward/impossible for me to play that card on turn 5. And the meta has become much more aggro lately; very hostile to mage. Win rate's dropping fast, don't think it needs a nerf. Especially don't think they should nerf both Luna's and conjurer's together, that would definitely be overkill.
Yes, mage destroys control warrior, but isn't that a good thing?
In my opinion don't need a nerf Luna's Pocket Galaxy because it's basically a spell and you must be lucky to draw it in turn 5 plus in my experience I have seen a lot of mages playing them in turn 8 for the mage epic card. Luna's Pocket Galaxy doesn't need a nerf.
That is exactly why it's a bad card. The game comes down to whether or not the mage draws this one specific card. Very little else matters. It is the poster child of bad game design.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I play a lot of mage. You have to be aggro enough so that it's very awkward/impossible for me to play that card on turn 5. And the meta has become much more aggro lately; very hostile to mage. Win rate's dropping fast, don't think it needs a nerf. Especially don't think they should nerf both Luna's and conjurer's together, that would definitely be overkill.
Yes, mage destroys control warrior, but isn't that a good thing?
even they nerf those two i still don't think it is overkill Conjurer's Calling still very good at 4 mana and Luna is bust at 5 and unplayable at 7 so maybe it fine at 6 also they should hit control warrior too if they nerf mage
This card is broken. Too many times I have been in a winning position only for the Mage to completely flip the board and shoot me with Alexstraza into Antonidos and cheap spells, or drop Kalecgos+Reno+King Pharos+ and freeze my board in one turn. Reminds me of Freeze Mage back in the day only a lot more busted and annoying. Can't even counter play against it, one moment everything is all fine but one Arcane Intellect and all hell breaks loose.
there is a rule for discover-effects that legendary cards show up more often than others - that is the reason you get the legendary spell offered so often - it was the same with the legendary paladin taunts discovered by Stonehill Defender
This. Two days ago I tried to explain the same to someone while I was watching Firebats stream. The first responses (mind you, it's Twitch chat) were along the lines of "said who?" ... "CoolStoryBob" .,. "who are you to decide that legendary cards shouldn't have such a high impact?"
I guess some people are just idiots who are okay with clearly unbalanced card design or they even prefer cards like Barnes to be able to highroll into victory. As you said, no "5 mana, do nothing" spell should be able to drastically improve your win rate just by showing up in your opening hand, similar to Dr. Boom which shows comparable stats. In regards to Keleseth, I loathed that card so much that I refused to spend dust on him. Yeah, might have costed me some ranked stars by not being able to play some of the Spiteful abominations but I didn't want to support such terrible card design.
No card should allow you to make 40 mana turns. Mage is capable of turning a game literally in any loosing situation. And this happens pretty often because of decent card draw and other mana cheating cards like Kalecgos, CC, Giants etc...
People are mad about the Genius, but compared to mage it feels more fair to play against.
Interestingly, it is Control Warrior that is allowing Mage to be so powerful right now.
Because of how supremely popular CW is, it is effectively making aggro decks almost pointless to play since they have little to no chance of beating CW.
And that has meant that Mage has been able to shine against Control Warrior because the worst thing you can do against Luna Mage is to sit back and hope to get to fatigue (CW Game Plan). Because mage gets hopelessly destroyed by aggro decks. (Barring perhaps a supremely lucky-RnG Turn 4 Luna into King Pharaoh turn 5 with a hand full of spells that creates a board of taunts)
Once CW is (hopefully) fixed by the upcoming nerfs, I would expect a resurgence of Aggro decks once more. And then we'll see how "powerful" a 5-mana-do-nothing spell is against seas of murlocs, zoo-minions and Reborn minions. :-)
I like the card, I play much it, but I cannot deny that OPness, I think should nerf the way it alter the costs, maybe make every minion cost 3 (even if it is in your hand) like the rogue quest works....
Its just trading one form of oppressive Archtype for another.
This is exactly how it often feels to play Luna against aggro and even midrange. 5 mana do nothing, and more often than not, die.
I don't think that's true generally, is it? I thought it was only true for the Elise pack.
The reason the legendaries showed up so often in Paladin was because discover weighs class cards more highly, and at the time, something like 3 of the 4 of the Paladin legendaries were taunt minions, and those were the only taunt minions in the class, aside from righteous protector.
My only observation is that, as a rogue main, almost invariably when LPG is played against me on turn 5 I lose and when it's not played by turn 10 I win. I don't know what that means but it doesn't sound good for Hearthstone in general. I'm not the smartest guy but it seems like an awfully big swing card
I play a lot of mage. You have to be aggro enough so that it's very awkward/impossible for me to play that card on turn 5. And the meta has become much more aggro lately; very hostile to mage. Win rate's dropping fast, don't think it needs a nerf. Especially don't think they should nerf both Luna's and conjurer's together, that would definitely be overkill.
Yes, mage destroys control warrior, but isn't that a good thing?
That is exactly why it's a bad card. The game comes down to whether or not the mage draws this one specific card. Very little else matters. It is the poster child of bad game design.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
even they nerf those two i still don't think it is overkill Conjurer's Calling still very good at 4 mana and Luna is bust at 5 and unplayable at 7 so maybe it fine at 6 also they should hit control warrior too if they nerf mage
This card is broken. Too many times I have been in a winning position only for the Mage to completely flip the board and shoot me with Alexstraza into Antonidos and cheap spells, or drop Kalecgos+Reno+King Pharos+ and freeze my board in one turn. Reminds me of Freeze Mage back in the day only a lot more busted and annoying. Can't even counter play against it, one moment everything is all fine but one Arcane Intellect and all hell breaks loose.