Would you ever give a card like this to Warrior, even at 7 mana? I hope not. Control Warrior cares about tempo even less than Control Mage, and would not hesitate to play this on 7 every single time. That's why they play Dr. Boom on 7 every single time, despite the massive tempo loss.
7-mana 13/13 worth of stats with a potential 24-damage the turn after, in what world is that a "massive tempo loss"?
In fact most 1 mana nerfs completely change a card's viability. Bonemare, Spirit Claws, Fiery War Axe, Flametongue Totem and Mana Wyrm are examples of this. I don't see LPG as being the sole reason why Mage is so powerful right now. Yes, 1 mana alexstrasza is a bit bullshit but conjurer's calling and sheer overall high quality of the class cards allow it to really shine.
OK, I'll admit that "unheard of" is an exaggeration if you admit four cards equals "a ton." But thank you for illustrating that 2-mana adjustments have not happened very often!
I happen to think most mana-cheating cards are bad for the game, including both CC and LPG. The more mana you can cheat, the unhealthier the environment becomes. That's why I would be perfectly happy to see Galaxy bumped up to (6).
(As Scorp says, this thread isn't about CC, so I'm leaving that alone.)
They did those nerfs the way they did because of Genn and Baku. In that environment, it wasn't really easy to nerf a card without completely changing its effect I guess.
Five mana to discount all your synergic and powerful minions in your deck and then draw them for low cost. And people complain about Warriors... The real issue is how well together it goes. Would it be a big deal for aggro deck to have a 1 cost minions? not really. Once they play all their things they run out of resources and are in topdeck mode which leaves enough room for the oponnent to stabilize. But drawing one mana giant and making it into possibly full board of 7/8 and 8/8 is simply ridiculous. Luna should be nerfed with either cost to the spell or cost to the minions. And nerf Conjurer's as well.
Edit: Or make Luna's set the mana to 1, not reduce to 1. That way you wouldn't Conjurer's 12 mana minions you played for 1 mana. That would properly separate Conjurer's/Dragon mage from Big Mage as well.
In my opinion don't need a nerf Luna's Pocket Galaxy because it's basically a spell and you must be lucky to draw it in turn 5 plus in my experience I have seen a lot of mages playing them in turn 8 for the mage epic card. Luna's Pocket Galaxy doesn't need a nerf.
Lol compare this to the old Druid quest, where minions in your deck cost 0,
It actually made you work for the reward, then you had to play a 5 mana card instead of 'just a spell lol'
That is actually how stupid the power level is.
Don't forget that Druid minions are notably more powerful than Mage or Neutral minions in general. And those minions also cost 0, which is vastly different to costing 1 (due to the possibilities of infinite combos etc). Not to mention you got an 8/8 for 5 mana as well, rather than paying 5 mana to do nothing for a turn.
WTF I just got 5 mages in a row 4 of them had galaxy on 5..... If you are not playing agrro you may as well concede...since you are in for a game of solitaire.
Add Penance and Sandhoof Waterbearer for extra threath and restore of HP and mages don't stand a chance. Just try to keep their board clear. Don't go for face damage when there are minions on their board and they will simply run out of fuel.
I find the problem doesn't seem to be getting LPG on turn 5. Being a legendary card, the variance of this should be pretty low - a bit like getting Keleseth back in the day. It's likelihood of being bottom of the pack kept it balanced.
For me, the real problem right now is this card:
Especially since you can put two of these in your deck, it raises the chance of getting an early LPG HUGELY - having tried it, I tend to see LPG in the list a lot of times. For me, this is the card that is the cause of the real issues with Mage, not Luna's.
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed. Blizz is likely to announce nerfs this week!
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed. Blizz is likely to announce nerfs this week!
Is that a guess, or have they specifically said that?
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed. Blizz is likely to announce nerfs this week!
Is that a guess, or have they specifically said that?
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed. Blizz is likely to announce nerfs this week!
Is that a guess, or have they specifically said that?
It's official that nerfs will be announced this week! Lots of speculation on what gets nerfed, but all the pros want mage and warrior hit hard!
Yes, I'm aware that Mike Donais announced that there were to be nerf announcements soon*, but you said "Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed." That's the part I was asking about. Was there anywhere that specified that Mage, Warrior and Priest / Paladin were getting nerfed?
I find the problem doesn't seem to be getting LPG on turn 5. Being a legendary card, the variance of this should be pretty low - a bit like getting Keleseth back in the day. It's likelihood of being bottom of the pack kept it balanced.
For me, the real problem right now is this card:
Especially since you can put two of these in your deck, it raises the chance of getting an early LPG HUGELY - having tried it, I tend to see LPG in the list a lot of times. For me, this is the card that is the cause of the real issues with Mage, not Luna's.
I totally understand where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I'd argue that Luna's is most certainly the problem card when players are tempted to run two copies of Vulpera Scoundrel just to increase their chances of getting it by turn 4 or 5. Scoundrel is a semi-decent card in its own right but generally speaking its just a filler for Highlander decks, since its not particularly synergistic with any specific strategy (other than Quest Shaman) but is just about better than the average unplayed 3 drop. The fact that a card with such a mediocre power level is being run in pairs because it can find Galaxy (this is even worth doing despite making the actual Galaxy in your deck a dead draw) speaks volumes to Pocket Galaxy's power.
The comparison to Keleseth makes sense, but the fact that he was a 1 of didn't balance him in the slightest, it just made his ludicrously lopsided effect less consistent - This did not help the millions of people who had him dropped on turn 2 against them - cards with this high a mulligan win rate simply should not exist. No one wants a game to be decided by a single card drawn by turn X no matter how rarely it happens.
In summary, both Prince Keleseth and Luna's Pocket Galaxy unfairly punish your opponent simply by appearing in your opening hand/mulligan. Whether this happens in 25% of games or 35% of games, or even just 5% of games it still is not acceptable for a game become so lopsided based on drawing one specific card. Luna's has a 70 (SEVENTY) percent mulligan win rate, realistically no card should be that high.
Luna's Pocket galaxy was virtually unplayable at 7 mana and is busted at 5 mana (apparently, i have yet to encounter it on curve) so maybe 6 mana would be a happy medium. Any nerf to Conjurer's Calling (that I've seen suggested anyway) would make the card completely unplayable. Removing mountain giant would make CC pretty much useless as well outside of really late game plays making it a really dead card most of the match. Mage is my main class but I played hunter most of last season because Oblivitron hunter was so fun. Right now the only thing propping mage up is Conjurer's Calling and Luna's Pocket galaxy which is making the class rather one dimensional, but this also means nerfing one or both of those cards could send mage to the gutter tier AGAIN which it just crawled out of from the last batch of nerfs -.-
I dunno I just want my favorite class to be fun and competitive again and not just one or the other
Any nerf to conjurerer's calling that makes it unplayable is A- OK with me. On the whole the playerbase does not like card that cheat so blatantly - you should not be able to play a cheap giant, trade it, then turn it into 2 or 4 fresh huge drops.
It's completely busted, and for me, far more infuriating than Pocket Galaxy, at 5 or 7 mana.
The true problem is mouth-breathers playing these types of deck in casual.
Hearthstone DESPERATELY needs a game-mode for people who value fun above all else. Right now it's all about addictive behavior and "Getting stuff" as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Luna's Pocket galaxy was virtually unplayable at 7 mana and is busted at 5 mana (apparently, i have yet to encounter it on curve) so maybe 6 mana would be a happy medium. Any nerf to Conjurer's Calling (that I've seen suggested anyway) would make the card completely unplayable. Removing mountain giant would make CC pretty much useless as well outside of really late game plays making it a really dead card most of the match. Mage is my main class but I played hunter most of last season because Oblivitron hunter was so fun. Right now the only thing propping mage up is Conjurer's Calling and Luna's Pocket galaxy which is making the class rather one dimensional, but this also means nerfing one or both of those cards could send mage to the gutter tier AGAIN which it just crawled out of from the last batch of nerfs -.-
I dunno I just want my favorite class to be fun and competitive again and not just one or the other
Any nerf to conjurerer's calling that makes it unplayable is A- OK with me. On the whole the playerbase does not like card that cheat so blatantly - you should not be able to play a cheap giant, trade it, then turn it into 2 or 4 fresh huge drops.
It's completely busted, and for me, far more infuriating than Pocket Galaxy, at 5 or 7 mana.
The fix is easy, they have to introduce a few bad 12-drops...I mean, playing Conjurer's on an 8-drop rn is pretty risky, with Octosari (who is an 8/8 at least) and Hi'reek and probably some other bad results in the pool. Even one bad 12-drop would decrease the power of the card significantly imo.
I play all classes and their different decks, so I'm a dirty netdecker I guess :D, but I also don't really like the direction the game is going for the last few expansions - where it feels like if you draw card X on turn Y, you win, otherwise, you lose (it's not necessarily exactly like that, but it felt that way for a while).
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, genius. Nobody cares about the other ones.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
By the way - Kripp's opinion, pretty reasonable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5sQM37aHY
They did those nerfs the way they did because of Genn and Baku. In that environment, it wasn't really easy to nerf a card without completely changing its effect I guess.
You can't stop the signal.
Lich King once said: How did that get past QA?!
Five mana to discount all your synergic and powerful minions in your deck and then draw them for low cost. And people complain about Warriors...
The real issue is how well together it goes. Would it be a big deal for aggro deck to have a 1 cost minions? not really. Once they play all their things they run out of resources and are in topdeck mode which leaves enough room for the oponnent to stabilize. But drawing one mana giant and making it into possibly full board of 7/8 and 8/8 is simply ridiculous. Luna should be nerfed with either cost to the spell or cost to the minions. And nerf Conjurer's as well.
Edit: Or make Luna's set the mana to 1, not reduce to 1. That way you wouldn't Conjurer's 12 mana minions you played for 1 mana. That would properly separate Conjurer's/Dragon mage from Big Mage as well.
In my opinion don't need a nerf Luna's Pocket Galaxy because it's basically a spell and you must be lucky to draw it in turn 5 plus in my experience I have seen a lot of mages playing them in turn 8 for the mage epic card.
Luna's Pocket Galaxy doesn't need a nerf.
Lol compare this to the old Druid quest, where minions in your deck cost 0,
It actually made you work for the reward, then you had to play a 5 mana card instead of 'just a spell lol'
That is actually how stupid the power level is.
Don't forget that Druid minions are notably more powerful than Mage or Neutral minions in general.
And those minions also cost 0, which is vastly different to costing 1 (due to the possibilities of infinite combos etc).
Not to mention you got an 8/8 for 5 mana as well, rather than paying 5 mana to do nothing for a turn.
Play Priest. I barely ever have issues with mages unless I draw very Poor.
With Forbidden Words , Shadow Word: Death (combine it with Archmage Vargoth ;)), Bone Wraith , Psychopomp , Convincing Infiltrator , Mass Hysteria and Plague of Death you've got tons of ways to stall - and eventually win - the game.
Add Penance and Sandhoof Waterbearer for extra threath and restore of HP and mages don't stand a chance.
Just try to keep their board clear. Don't go for face damage when there are minions on their board and they will simply run out of fuel.
I find the problem doesn't seem to be getting LPG on turn 5. Being a legendary card, the variance of this should be pretty low - a bit like getting Keleseth back in the day. It's likelihood of being bottom of the pack kept it balanced.
For me, the real problem right now is this card:
Especially since you can put two of these in your deck, it raises the chance of getting an early LPG HUGELY - having tried it, I tend to see LPG in the list a lot of times.
For me, this is the card that is the cause of the real issues with Mage, not Luna's.
Control Warrior being so good makes Lunas seem better than it probably is.
Control Warrior being so popular pushes out a lot of aggro decks. Against a good aggro deck, Mage players would be taking a huge risk doing nothing on Turn 4 or 5. For example, imagine Turn 4/5 pass against old Pirate Warrior, Even Shaman, etc. It would be be Gg basically.
Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed. Blizz is likely to announce nerfs this week!
Is that a guess, or have they specifically said that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/csu3e7/mike_donais_we_will_give_more_info_on_balance/
It's official that nerfs will be announced this week! Lots of speculation on what gets nerfed, but all the pros want mage and warrior hit hard!
Yes, I'm aware that Mike Donais announced that there were to be nerf announcements soon*, but you said "Mage, warrior and possibly priest and paladin are getting nerfed."
That's the part I was asking about. Was there anywhere that specified that Mage, Warrior and Priest / Paladin were getting nerfed?
I totally understand where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I'd argue that Luna's is most certainly the problem card when players are tempted to run two copies of Vulpera Scoundrel just to increase their chances of getting it by turn 4 or 5. Scoundrel is a semi-decent card in its own right but generally speaking its just a filler for Highlander decks, since its not particularly synergistic with any specific strategy (other than Quest Shaman) but is just about better than the average unplayed 3 drop. The fact that a card with such a mediocre power level is being run in pairs because it can find Galaxy (this is even worth doing despite making the actual Galaxy in your deck a dead draw) speaks volumes to Pocket Galaxy's power.
The comparison to Keleseth makes sense, but the fact that he was a 1 of didn't balance him in the slightest, it just made his ludicrously lopsided effect less consistent - This did not help the millions of people who had him dropped on turn 2 against them - cards with this high a mulligan win rate simply should not exist. No one wants a game to be decided by a single card drawn by turn X no matter how rarely it happens.
In summary, both Prince Keleseth and Luna's Pocket Galaxy unfairly punish your opponent simply by appearing in your opening hand/mulligan. Whether this happens in 25% of games or 35% of games, or even just 5% of games it still is not acceptable for a game become so lopsided based on drawing one specific card. Luna's has a 70 (SEVENTY) percent mulligan win rate, realistically no card should be that high.
Addressed how high rolling and game changing this card is currently is way before SoU
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/235921-lunas-pocket-galaxy
Any nerf to conjurerer's calling that makes it unplayable is A- OK with me. On the whole the playerbase does not like card that cheat so blatantly - you should not be able to play a cheap giant, trade it, then turn it into 2 or 4 fresh huge drops.
It's completely busted, and for me, far more infuriating than Pocket Galaxy, at 5 or 7 mana.
The true problem is mouth-breathers playing these types of deck in casual.
Hearthstone DESPERATELY needs a game-mode for people who value fun above all else. Right now it's all about addictive behavior and "Getting stuff" as quickly and efficiently as possible.
The fix is easy, they have to introduce a few bad 12-drops...I mean, playing Conjurer's on an 8-drop rn is pretty risky, with Octosari (who is an 8/8 at least) and Hi'reek and probably some other bad results in the pool. Even one bad 12-drop would decrease the power of the card significantly imo.
I play all classes and their different decks, so I'm a dirty netdecker I guess :D, but I also don't really like the direction the game is going for the last few expansions - where it feels like if you draw card X on turn Y, you win, otherwise, you lose (it's not necessarily exactly like that, but it felt that way for a while).
You can't stop the signal.
i think they should nerf it to 6 mana too 5 mana is a bit much