RDU made a very good point on his stream last night while playing Highlander Hunter vs a Control Warrior. The game went on to the last 5 or so cards per player without the Warrior drawing Dr Boom and ultimately the Warrior was ground out of removal and conceded, facing lethal damage and unable to clear. RDU said after the game, Control Warrior is surprisingly fun to play against without Dr Boom and is still a very respectable deck. I am inclined to agree. The game was long and drawn out but they were fighting for the board the whole time rather than the Warrior being able to remove anything and everything instantly because everything has Rush. With RoS I don’t think Control Warriors stood a chance without Dr Boom, but with SoE and the new Taunt Package, they actually have a proactive way to generate tempo and win the game without having to rely on exhausting every single resource.
Boom faces a very “Big Priest” problem in that playing against him is a miserable experience, but using him can be super fun (raid boss vibes). I think overall however, he detracts from the quality of the game and could be hall of famed without putting Control Warrior in the dumpster, while making the gameplay of the deck a lot more engaging for both players.
As someone who played a lot of Control Warrior during the last expansion I can understand Blizzard’s reluctance to remove or nerf the card because it does provide a ton of flavour and fun, but unfortunately it is completely one sided and very frustrating for the other player. Setting up a 2 turn lethal that randomly gets blocked by him rolling Blast Shield as soon as you start to push face can be very tilting, because you have to put so much work into getting the warrior in lethal range in the first place when you can’t build a board because Omega Devastator is an instant 2 for 1 or 2 for 0, Dynomatic stops you developing any less than 8 health and every other minion that comes off of Delivery Drone or Omega Assembly can also be used as removal (in addition to all the reactive cards Warrior already has at their disposal). If you have ever played much Control Warrior you’ll know that feeling of total security once you have Boom online - you’re never really concerned about losing once you switch heroes.
Ultimately, everything in Warrior’s arsenal is completely fine other than Boom. It just does too much for one card and now that Control Warrior has other tools with which to compete I don’t think it is necessary to keep him in Standard.
Without Dr. Boom warrior will be trash because it's the only tool he has for late game, unlike other classes who can copy and shuffle in deck other 4000 cards.
Just Boom needs a nerf indeed. All mech having rush is just OP as can be.
Omega Devastator after Boom is basically do 14 damage for 4 mana, aside all the other rushes you can do. It's just too much.
edit: When you meet a warrior 9 times in 10 games (which I just had) it takes away all the fun, as there is not diversity anymore. The game gets boring very fast if you have to do the same over and over again.
im fine if warrior keeps those aggro players in check, but if you play a other control deck you just can concede at some point when the warrior has 40+ armor.... ,while he just clears you Every turn and Dr7 ohh boy on that card design i better say nothing ( it needs a huge nerf or Hof realy fast ).
maby make some base cards more expensive like Shield Slam 2 mana and Brawl 6, but if blizzard does that Aggro will be Tier 1 again so i cant say what they need to nerf
Without Dr. Boom warrior will be trash because it's the only tool he has for late game, unlike other classes who can copy and shuffle in deck other 4000 cards.
Yeah, it's not as if Warrior could be played as, say, a weapon-heavy Midrange deck, or could swap out its "Have an answer for everything the opponent does" package for Tomb Wardens and Magnetic synergies.
Warrior doesn't need to be a late-game only class, and it doesn't benefit the game by having a card that wins the late game for it so hard that keeping a 7-drop in hand radically increases your odds of winning. This is the DK Rexxar paradox; people defending a card as a late-game option because other decks have late-game options, but also expecting those decks to deal with a late-game option so powerful that the designers need to create radically powerful early-game to give those non-control decks a chance.
At the end of the day, Dr. Boom's random Hero Power, incredibly premium cost, effective turn of invincibility with its 7 Armor gain, and passive ability to turn every single mech into a Druid of the Claw is peak Skillstone. It feels bad to lose to, and makes other Control decks feel hopeless because other classes don't have the combination of removal options AND card generation that Warrior does.
I like Dr. Boom a lot as a card. I think it's also the single most oppressive card in the game right now, with Conjurer's Calling only losing out because it has a (slightly) significant chance of low-rolling. The worst-case scenario for Dr. Boom is that you don't draw it; any other time, it's an unfair power spike in a meta where 66% of classes don't have a Hero Card.
Either patch in Hero Cards to give classes like Druid, Paladin and Priest a decent chance of not relying on gimmicks and still winning matches, or nerf Dr. Boom so that Quest Druid - just as a current example - doesn't have to build an entire deck around doing a worse version of what Warrior does with one card (Strong control and life gain like with Oasis Surger, Starfall and Hidden Oasis). Quest Druid isn't quite 1/1 with a Control Warrior deck, but with Dr. Boom in play, Omega Devastator is generally more effective on-board than a double-buffed Oasis Surger, Brawl is almost strictly better agnostically than Starfall is with its double-buff, and 12 Health only matters when you're behind (Not to mention how much better Warrior can do than a 6 Mana 6/6 with its new Taunt package).
Overall, Warrior as a class suffers when it's expected to be the sole warden of Control in the entire meta, and the game suffers when a single archetype is so oppressively powerful that people playing that class feel pressured to use it if they want to climb.
Disregarding the horrific mistake of allowing Bombs to ruin singleton decks (Why, even? None of the singleton cards merit that much punishment as a balance factor), Dr. Boom is the face of how Warrior has been used as a crutch to bring something slower to the meta.
In my opinion, no one solution will do it; Warrior needs to be a little weaker, and other classes need to be given either mild buffs to clearly overcosted cards (See: Ancient of Lore) that would allow them a slower playstyle, or full-on new cards need to be added to incentivize more variety in Warrior play and to open up decent Control options for other decks.
As it is, Battlecry Shaman can Fireball you in the face with several cards (And heal off of it) per game, Mage can Mana-cheat their entire deck, and Quest Priest can put 3/6 in play for 2 Mana every turn, but it's Control Warrior (And, to be fair, Conjurer Mage) that people still complain about the most.
Conjurer Mage is bad because it negates the entire point of a game with a progressive Mana system and ruins match flow, and Control Warrior is bad because losing a match against it is comparable to slowly drowning in removal while good cards literally appear in their hand to punish you for playing the game.
I would humbly suggest that these are balance problems.
If all of the definitely-not-defensive Warrior players, ah, griping about other people wanting to see balance changes (Over... and over, and over again, the same guys, mentioning how much everyone is salty here with just metric tons of self-awareness dragging them down, I assume) would like to see Warrior remain a good Control class, then here's what I recommend:
- Bump Omega Devastator to 6 Mana, keep the Mech tag
- Dr. Boom gives 3 Discover options, but tone down the natural Class-card spawn odds by a few percentage to weaken their pool slightly
- Mechs keep Rush on play, but the passive only triggers if Dr. Boom's Hero Power is used that turn; Mana constriction means they don't get to pile on threats as heavily around turn 13 when you run out of cards in hand and they double Omega Assembly for four RUIN - DESPAIR - DESTRUCTION(s) in hand
- Revise old, somewhat aggressive Nerfs to previously alright class cards from back when HS was, frankly, butchered by its balance decisions and allow the very(!) important Standard set to benefit classes that used to rely on those cards as staples (Since we're running with Druid for comparison today, let's say bumping Ancient of Lore to 6 Mana as 1 Card Draw is typically worth 1 Mana when its only one card and it would still be under-statted significantly, and the heal to 8, similar to Healing Touch, another Druid card that serves as a handy example of what their class charges for healing, with the 2 Mana discount effectively giving Ancient of Lore almost-playable stat ratios)
- Just give other classes Hero Cards, Blizzard, it's really weird to lock most of the game out of a powerful card archetype that people clearly like, a lot
I know this has been a long post already, but I'd just like to say that I like Warrior. A lot, actually, and I used to be in the camp of never nerfing Dr. Boom. But man, it's just so heartbreaking to see how many decks never see significant play because exactly one class has a Frozen Throne-level card and that means that, from turn 8 and on, it just won't lose so many otherwise interesting matchups.
This isn't aggro salt, this is disappointment from seeing how many other Control decks just aren't worth running because a more premium option exists. I like Slowstone, I like Control games, and I absolutely hate seeing decks have to build around having one top dog that will functionally always beat them out because it has access to tools they can't even approximate building towards themselves.
Let Warrior breathe. Let other Control decks matter. Balance the damn game, guys, because it's close to becoming legitimately well-balanced, but it seems like set rotations are being counted on to passively solve the problems that are actively displeasing the players, and for what it costs to have several decks on hand in HS, I think the playerbase deserves more active balance changes and a subtler touch than what we've received up until now. New Legendaries and the, uh, 'addition' of those HoF replacements were a good start (Except for Radiance).
Ease up the pressure a bit on the obvious bugbears, because there are plenty of decks out there to prove Warrior can do more than Hero Power, pass, and so on, or generate limitless value, to be both good in the meta and interesting for the player at the same time.
And dear god, bump Conjurer's to 11 Mana and give it Negative Twinspell, that way it permanently removes a card slot from the player's deck when played.
Without Dr. Boom warrior will be trash because it's the only tool he has for late game, unlike other classes who can copy and shuffle in deck other 4000 cards.
Yeah, it's not as if Warrior could be played as, say, a weapon-heavy Midrange deck, or could swap out its "Have an answer for everything the opponent does" package for Tomb Wardens and Magnetic synergies.
Warrior doesn't need to be a late-game only class, and it doesn't benefit the game by having a card that wins the late game for it so hard that keeping a 7-drop in hand radically increases your odds of winning. This is the DK Rexxar paradox; people defending a card as a late-game option because other decks have late-game options, but also expecting those decks to deal with a late-game option so powerful that the designers need to create radically powerful early-game to give those non-control decks a chance.
At the end of the day, Dr. Boom's random Hero Power, incredibly premium cost, effective turn of invincibility with its 7 Armor gain, and passive ability to turn every single mech into a Druid of the Claw is peak Skillstone. It feels bad to lose to, and makes other Control decks feel hopeless because other classes don't have the combination of removal options AND card generation that Warrior does.
I like Dr. Boom a lot as a card. I think it's also the single most oppressive card in the game right now, with Conjurer's Calling only losing out because it has a (slightly) significant chance of low-rolling. The worst-case scenario for Dr. Boom is that you don't draw it; any other time, it's an unfair power spike in a meta where 66% of classes don't have a Hero Card.
Either patch in Hero Cards to give classes like Druid, Paladin and Priest a decent chance of not relying on gimmicks and still winning matches, or nerf Dr. Boom so that Quest Druid - just as a current example - doesn't have to build an entire deck around doing a worse version of what Warrior does with one card (Strong control and life gain like with Oasis Surger, Starfall and Hidden Oasis). Quest Druid isn't quite 1/1 with a Control Warrior deck, but with Dr. Boom in play, Omega Devastator is generally more effective on-board than a double-buffed Oasis Surger, Brawl is almost strictly better agnostically than Starfall is with its double-buff, and 12 Health only matters when you're behind (Not to mention how much better Warrior can do than a 6 Mana 6/6 with its new Taunt package).
Overall, Warrior as a class suffers when it's expected to be the sole warden of Control in the entire meta, and the game suffers when a single archetype is so oppressively powerful that people playing that class feel pressured to use it if they want to climb.
Disregarding the horrific mistake of allowing Bombs to ruin singleton decks (Why, even? None of the singleton cards merit that much punishment as a balance factor), Dr. Boom is the face of how Warrior has been used as a crutch to bring something slower to the meta.
In my opinion, no one solution will do it; Warrior needs to be a little weaker, and other classes need to be given either mild buffs to clearly overcosted cards (See: Ancient of Lore) that would allow them a slower playstyle, or full-on new cards need to be added to incentivize more variety in Warrior play and to open up decent Control options for other decks.
As it is, Battlecry Shaman can Fireball you in the face with several cards (And heal off of it) per game, Mage can Mana-cheat their entire deck, and Quest Priest can put 3/6 in play for 2 Mana every turn, but it's Control Warrior (And, to be fair, Conjurer Mage) that people still complain about the most.
Conjurer Mage is bad because it negates the entire point of a game with a progressive Mana system and ruins match flow, and Control Warrior is bad because losing a match against it is comparable to slowly drowning in removal while good cards literally appear in their hand to punish you for playing the game.
I would humbly suggest that these are balance problems.
If all of the definitely-not-defensive Warrior players, ah, griping about other people wanting to see balance changes (Over... and over, and over again, the same guys, mentioning how much everyone is salty here with just metric tons of self-awareness dragging them down, I assume) would like to see Warrior remain a good Control class, then here's what I recommend:
- Bump Omega Devastator to 6 Mana, keep the Mech tag
- Dr. Boom gives 3 Discover options, but tone down the natural Class-card spawn odds by a few percentage to weaken their pool slightly
- Mechs keep Rush on play, but the passive only triggers if Dr. Boom's Hero Power is used that turn; Mana constriction means they don't get to pile on threats as heavily around turn 13 when you run out of cards in hand and they double Omega Assembly for four RUIN - DESPAIR - DESTRUCTION(s) in hand
- Revise old, somewhat aggressive Nerfs to previously alright class cards from back when HS was, frankly, butchered by its balance decisions and allow the very(!) important Standard set to benefit classes that used to rely on those cards as staples (Since we're running with Druid for comparison today, let's say bumping Ancient of Lore to 6 Mana as 1 Card Draw is typically worth 1 Mana when its only one card and it would still be under-statted significantly, and the heal to 8, similar to Healing Touch, another Druid card that serves as a handy example of what their class charges for healing, with the 2 Mana discount effectively giving Ancient of Lore almost-playable stat ratios)
- Just give other classes Hero Cards, Blizzard, it's really weird to lock most of the game out of a powerful card archetype that people clearly like, a lot
I know this has been a long post already, but I'd just like to say that I like Warrior. A lot, actually, and I used to be in the camp of never nerfing Dr. Boom. But man, it's just so heartbreaking to see how many decks never see significant play because exactly one class has a Frozen Throne-level card and that means that, from turn 8 and on, it just won't lose so many otherwise interesting matchups.
This isn't aggro salt, this is disappointment from seeing how many other Control decks just aren't worth running because a more premium option exists. I like Slowstone, I like Control games, and I absolutely hate seeing decks have to build around having one top dog that will functionally always beat them out because it has access to tools they can't even approximate building towards themselves.
Let Warrior breathe. Let other Control decks matter. Balance the damn game, guys, because it's close to becoming legitimately well-balanced, but it seems like set rotations are being counted on to passively solve the problems that are actively displeasing the players, and for what it costs to have several decks on hand in HS, I think the playerbase deserves more active balance changes and a subtler touch than what we've received up until now. New Legendaries and the, uh, 'addition' of those HoF replacements were a good start (Except for Radiance).
Ease up the pressure a bit on the obvious bugbears, because there are plenty of decks out there to prove Warrior can do more than Hero Power, pass, and so on, or generate limitless value, to be both good in the meta and interesting for the player at the same time.
And dear god, bump Conjurer's to 11 Mana and give it Negative Twinspell, that way it permanently removes a card slot from the player's deck when played.
I really doubt you've read enough books to make that comparison, xxxXsynthetikMisterEXxxx, with that being the only response you could cough out.
Of course, you were one of those mad self-aware nerf naysayers, so I did get what I expected.
Bring up numbers and plans, or just stop spamming. This is a topic thread, not Xbox Live chat.
And on that note, just dropping Ancient of Lore down to 5 Mana would be completely fair, as a 5/5 is below premium stats and adding a Draw 1 effect would bring it up to the expected par of a Class card; better than would be fair on a Neutral, but not so good as to be a build-around in most decks.
For Dr. Boom, the actual main topic, I'd also recommend a 'nerf' of putting the Hero Power rolls into a predictable order to allow for counterplay, that way you can act ahead of the 2 Mana 3/3 Rush power, the smaller field clear, and the Warrior can never roll 2 Mana 7 Armor gain for multiple turns across a short span, as that tends to be the killer against decks that have a definite amount of damage output and is based solely on luck.
With all due respect WolfmanJack, there is a reason why people say Wall of Text all the time at forums. Whenever you write that much at once, the chance people read it all will be small.
They will not move Boom to HoF, only 2 expansions appart from him to be HoFed But clearly, he is broken af. Town crier IS really broken, seriously, for 1, et 1/2 that allow you to draw one spécific sort of card from your, deck ?
The problem with this deck is not that there is OP card, it's beacause all those cards together allow a single class to deal with all situations :
Taunts
Armor
Hard removal
AOE
big minions
draw/card advantage...
Develop a solid board : he can remove all your board for 5 mana, and then deal with your eventually deathrattle repop/reborn minions. No brawl ? It's OK, we got Warpath.
I think that if they take so long before nerfing the Warrior, it's because nerfing it would allow the rise of other class. So they'll have to nerf other class too, like mage for exemple (I'm Mage player). This last expansion is really good I think, but Warrior is killing the fun, even the warrior quest is completely useless because Boom is infinitly better.
Without Dr. Boom warrior will be trash because it's the only tool he has for late game, unlike other classes who can copy and shuffle in deck other 4000 cards.
This is no longer the case. We received some really strong cards in SoE but Dr. Boom just outclasses them all. We will be fine without him since we got the new board clear, an excellent Rush minion and a really strong taunt package.
Rather than Nerf Warrior, why not let other classes have good decks? Just looking at the classic set epic cards, Warrior has Brawl, Shield Slam, and Gorehowl. All these cards are played in control lists since the beginning and you're only not seeing Gorehowl now because Supercollider is significantly better in this meta and cards like Omega Devistator exist.
Classes like Rogue, Priest, and Warlock have cards that rarely (if ever) see play like Patient Assassin, Mind Games, and Pit Lord.
I understand the push from Blizzard for class identity, but these classes I've just mentioned need some changes to at least the classic set, much more than what has already been done. That or just remove the Classic set from standard. Rotation or not, big changes need to occur.
Rather than Nerf Warrior, why not let other classes have good decks? Just looking at the classic set epic cards, Warrior has Brawl, Shield Slam, and Gorehowl. All these cards are played in control lists since the beginning and you're only not seeing Gorehowl now because Supercollider is significantly better in this meta and cards like Omega Devistator exist.
Classes like Rogue, Priest, and Warlock have cards that rarely (if ever) see play like Patient Assassin, Mind Games, and Pit Lord.
I understand the push from Blizzard for class identity, but these classes I've just mentioned need some changes to at least the classic set, much more than what has already been done. That or just remove the Classic set from standard. Rotation or not, big changes need to occur.
The only change they made to the Priest core set is one that made the set worse... Taking away one of their best basic set cards and replacing it with Radiance is just bad. That card won't ever see play.
Rather than Nerf Warrior, why not let other classes have good decks? Just looking at the classic set epic cards, Warrior has Brawl, Shield Slam, and Gorehowl. All these cards are played in control lists since the beginning and you're only not seeing Gorehowl now because Supercollider is significantly better in this meta and cards like Omega Devistator exist.
Classes like Rogue, Priest, and Warlock have cards that rarely (if ever) see play like Patient Assassin, Mind Games, and Pit Lord.
I understand the push from Blizzard for class identity, but these classes I've just mentioned need some changes to at least the classic set, much more than what has already been done. That or just remove the Classic set from standard. Rotation or not, big changes need to occur.
The only change they made to the Priest core set is one that made the set worse... Taking away one of their best basic set cards and replacing it with Radiance is just bad. That card won't ever see play.
The entirety of the priest quest is to heal to gain the hero power effect. Are you sure you are playing the same game? It is seeing play in Quest priest.
Wolfmanjack post how you like. Don’t be discouraged. I don’t agree with all that you said, but your posts bring a lot to the forums here. It’s a forum, for discussion so I don’t mind long insightful posts. I appreciate it.
On topic, I do feel like Dr. Boom needs a slight nerf, but I think warrior will still be very competitive to play against - and that’s not a bad thing. I rather have games go past turn 4 or 5. With these Aggro decks games end too quickly.
Every deck should have a weakness. Aggro needs a weakness. And control warrior is no exception... in fact it does have several weaknesses. Quest paladin beats warrior. Out of all the new decks I’ve had the most success against warrior with quest pally. I actually don’t think control warrior is as bad as people say. I think games that end at turn 4 is more toxic to hearthstone. I hope I’m not alone in thinking this.
Maybe make the dr boom armor hero power less skill dependent and make all dr boom hero powers always follow a set cycle. Maybe only make the starting point and the order of the cycle random. What I am trying to say is that dr boom should every 4 turns offer you one of each of his hero powers
When you play vs control warrior, if you don’t have the right deck, the gameplay will be always very “fun and interactive”. Once I played as heal druid vs control warrior. He literally did nothing the entire game and sat at 10 cards so there was no way I could heal anyone.
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RDU made a very good point on his stream last night while playing Highlander Hunter vs a Control Warrior. The game went on to the last 5 or so cards per player without the Warrior drawing Dr Boom and ultimately the Warrior was ground out of removal and conceded, facing lethal damage and unable to clear. RDU said after the game, Control Warrior is surprisingly fun to play against without Dr Boom and is still a very respectable deck. I am inclined to agree. The game was long and drawn out but they were fighting for the board the whole time rather than the Warrior being able to remove anything and everything instantly because everything has Rush. With RoS I don’t think Control Warriors stood a chance without Dr Boom, but with SoE and the new Taunt Package, they actually have a proactive way to generate tempo and win the game without having to rely on exhausting every single resource.
Boom faces a very “Big Priest” problem in that playing against him is a miserable experience, but using him can be super fun (raid boss vibes). I think overall however, he detracts from the quality of the game and could be hall of famed without putting Control Warrior in the dumpster, while making the gameplay of the deck a lot more engaging for both players.
As someone who played a lot of Control Warrior during the last expansion I can understand Blizzard’s reluctance to remove or nerf the card because it does provide a ton of flavour and fun, but unfortunately it is completely one sided and very frustrating for the other player. Setting up a 2 turn lethal that randomly gets blocked by him rolling Blast Shield as soon as you start to push face can be very tilting, because you have to put so much work into getting the warrior in lethal range in the first place when you can’t build a board because Omega Devastator is an instant 2 for 1 or 2 for 0, Dynomatic stops you developing any less than 8 health and every other minion that comes off of Delivery Drone or Omega Assembly can also be used as removal (in addition to all the reactive cards Warrior already has at their disposal). If you have ever played much Control Warrior you’ll know that feeling of total security once you have Boom online - you’re never really concerned about losing once you switch heroes.
Ultimately, everything in Warrior’s arsenal is completely fine other than Boom. It just does too much for one card and now that Control Warrior has other tools with which to compete I don’t think it is necessary to keep him in Standard.
Without Dr. Boom warrior will be trash because it's the only tool he has for late game, unlike other classes who can copy and shuffle in deck other 4000 cards.
probably just move dk's like boom to wild
Just Boom needs a nerf indeed.
All mech having rush is just OP as can be.
Omega Devastator after Boom is basically do 14 damage for 4 mana, aside all the other rushes you can do.
It's just too much.
edit: When you meet a warrior 9 times in 10 games (which I just had) it takes away all the fun, as there is not diversity anymore. The game gets boring very fast if you have to do the same over and over again.
im fine if warrior keeps those aggro players in check, but if you play a other control deck you just can concede at some point when the warrior has 40+ armor.... ,while he just clears you Every turn and Dr7 ohh boy on that card design i better say nothing ( it needs a huge nerf or Hof realy fast ).
Omega Devastator - 8 mana ( still a better Flame Lance + yeti)
maby make some base cards more expensive like Shield Slam 2 mana and Brawl 6, but if blizzard does that Aggro will be Tier 1 again so i cant say what they need to nerf
Yeah, it's not as if Warrior could be played as, say, a weapon-heavy Midrange deck, or could swap out its "Have an answer for everything the opponent does" package for Tomb Wardens and Magnetic synergies.
Warrior doesn't need to be a late-game only class, and it doesn't benefit the game by having a card that wins the late game for it so hard that keeping a 7-drop in hand radically increases your odds of winning. This is the DK Rexxar paradox; people defending a card as a late-game option because other decks have late-game options, but also expecting those decks to deal with a late-game option so powerful that the designers need to create radically powerful early-game to give those non-control decks a chance.
At the end of the day, Dr. Boom's random Hero Power, incredibly premium cost, effective turn of invincibility with its 7 Armor gain, and passive ability to turn every single mech into a Druid of the Claw is peak Skillstone. It feels bad to lose to, and makes other Control decks feel hopeless because other classes don't have the combination of removal options AND card generation that Warrior does.
I like Dr. Boom a lot as a card. I think it's also the single most oppressive card in the game right now, with Conjurer's Calling only losing out because it has a (slightly) significant chance of low-rolling. The worst-case scenario for Dr. Boom is that you don't draw it; any other time, it's an unfair power spike in a meta where 66% of classes don't have a Hero Card.
Either patch in Hero Cards to give classes like Druid, Paladin and Priest a decent chance of not relying on gimmicks and still winning matches, or nerf Dr. Boom so that Quest Druid - just as a current example - doesn't have to build an entire deck around doing a worse version of what Warrior does with one card (Strong control and life gain like with Oasis Surger, Starfall and Hidden Oasis). Quest Druid isn't quite 1/1 with a Control Warrior deck, but with Dr. Boom in play, Omega Devastator is generally more effective on-board than a double-buffed Oasis Surger, Brawl is almost strictly better agnostically than Starfall is with its double-buff, and 12 Health only matters when you're behind (Not to mention how much better Warrior can do than a 6 Mana 6/6 with its new Taunt package).
Overall, Warrior as a class suffers when it's expected to be the sole warden of Control in the entire meta, and the game suffers when a single archetype is so oppressively powerful that people playing that class feel pressured to use it if they want to climb.
Disregarding the horrific mistake of allowing Bombs to ruin singleton decks (Why, even? None of the singleton cards merit that much punishment as a balance factor), Dr. Boom is the face of how Warrior has been used as a crutch to bring something slower to the meta.
In my opinion, no one solution will do it; Warrior needs to be a little weaker, and other classes need to be given either mild buffs to clearly overcosted cards (See: Ancient of Lore) that would allow them a slower playstyle, or full-on new cards need to be added to incentivize more variety in Warrior play and to open up decent Control options for other decks.
As it is, Battlecry Shaman can Fireball you in the face with several cards (And heal off of it) per game, Mage can Mana-cheat their entire deck, and Quest Priest can put 3/6 in play for 2 Mana every turn, but it's Control Warrior (And, to be fair, Conjurer Mage) that people still complain about the most.
Conjurer Mage is bad because it negates the entire point of a game with a progressive Mana system and ruins match flow, and Control Warrior is bad because losing a match against it is comparable to slowly drowning in removal while good cards literally appear in their hand to punish you for playing the game.
I would humbly suggest that these are balance problems.
If all of the definitely-not-defensive Warrior players, ah, griping about other people wanting to see balance changes (Over... and over, and over again, the same guys, mentioning how much everyone is salty here with just metric tons of self-awareness dragging them down, I assume) would like to see Warrior remain a good Control class, then here's what I recommend:
- Bump Omega Devastator to 6 Mana, keep the Mech tag
- Dr. Boom gives 3 Discover options, but tone down the natural Class-card spawn odds by a few percentage to weaken their pool slightly
- Mechs keep Rush on play, but the passive only triggers if Dr. Boom's Hero Power is used that turn; Mana constriction means they don't get to pile on threats as heavily around turn 13 when you run out of cards in hand and they double Omega Assembly for four RUIN - DESPAIR - DESTRUCTION(s) in hand
- Revise old, somewhat aggressive Nerfs to previously alright class cards from back when HS was, frankly, butchered by its balance decisions and allow the very(!) important Standard set to benefit classes that used to rely on those cards as staples (Since we're running with Druid for comparison today, let's say bumping Ancient of Lore to 6 Mana as 1 Card Draw is typically worth 1 Mana when its only one card and it would still be under-statted significantly, and the heal to 8, similar to Healing Touch, another Druid card that serves as a handy example of what their class charges for healing, with the 2 Mana discount effectively giving Ancient of Lore almost-playable stat ratios)
- Just give other classes Hero Cards, Blizzard, it's really weird to lock most of the game out of a powerful card archetype that people clearly like, a lot
I know this has been a long post already, but I'd just like to say that I like Warrior. A lot, actually, and I used to be in the camp of never nerfing Dr. Boom. But man, it's just so heartbreaking to see how many decks never see significant play because exactly one class has a Frozen Throne-level card and that means that, from turn 8 and on, it just won't lose so many otherwise interesting matchups.
This isn't aggro salt, this is disappointment from seeing how many other Control decks just aren't worth running because a more premium option exists. I like Slowstone, I like Control games, and I absolutely hate seeing decks have to build around having one top dog that will functionally always beat them out because it has access to tools they can't even approximate building towards themselves.
Let Warrior breathe. Let other Control decks matter. Balance the damn game, guys, because it's close to becoming legitimately well-balanced, but it seems like set rotations are being counted on to passively solve the problems that are actively displeasing the players, and for what it costs to have several decks on hand in HS, I think the playerbase deserves more active balance changes and a subtler touch than what we've received up until now. New Legendaries and the, uh, 'addition' of those HoF replacements were a good start (Except for Radiance).
Ease up the pressure a bit on the obvious bugbears, because there are plenty of decks out there to prove Warrior can do more than Hero Power, pass, and so on, or generate limitless value, to be both good in the meta and interesting for the player at the same time.
And dear god, bump Conjurer's to 11 Mana and give it Negative Twinspell, that way it permanently removes a card slot from the player's deck when played.
lol he wrote a book
I really doubt you've read enough books to make that comparison, xxxXsynthetikMisterEXxxx, with that being the only response you could cough out.
Of course, you were one of those mad self-aware nerf naysayers, so I did get what I expected.
Bring up numbers and plans, or just stop spamming. This is a topic thread, not Xbox Live chat.
And on that note, just dropping Ancient of Lore down to 5 Mana would be completely fair, as a 5/5 is below premium stats and adding a Draw 1 effect would bring it up to the expected par of a Class card; better than would be fair on a Neutral, but not so good as to be a build-around in most decks.
For Dr. Boom, the actual main topic, I'd also recommend a 'nerf' of putting the Hero Power rolls into a predictable order to allow for counterplay, that way you can act ahead of the 2 Mana 3/3 Rush power, the smaller field clear, and the Warrior can never roll 2 Mana 7 Armor gain for multiple turns across a short span, as that tends to be the killer against decks that have a definite amount of damage output and is based solely on luck.
With all due respect WolfmanJack, there is a reason why people say Wall of Text all the time at forums.
Whenever you write that much at once, the chance people read it all will be small.
They will not move Boom to HoF, only 2 expansions appart from him to be HoFed
But clearly, he is broken af. Town crier IS really broken, seriously, for 1, et 1/2 that allow you to draw one spécific sort of card from your, deck ?
The problem with this deck is not that there is OP card, it's beacause all those cards together allow a single class to deal with all situations :
Develop a solid board : he can remove all your board for 5 mana, and then deal with your eventually deathrattle repop/reborn minions. No brawl ? It's OK, we got Warpath.
I think that if they take so long before nerfing the Warrior, it's because nerfing it would allow the rise of other class. So they'll have to nerf other class too, like mage for exemple (I'm Mage player). This last expansion is really good I think, but Warrior is killing the fun, even the warrior quest is completely useless because Boom is infinitly better.
This is no longer the case. We received some really strong cards in SoE but Dr. Boom just outclasses them all. We will be fine without him since we got the new board clear, an excellent Rush minion and a really strong taunt package.
Rather than Nerf Warrior, why not let other classes have good decks? Just looking at the classic set epic cards, Warrior has Brawl, Shield Slam, and Gorehowl. All these cards are played in control lists since the beginning and you're only not seeing Gorehowl now because Supercollider is significantly better in this meta and cards like Omega Devistator exist.
Classes like Rogue, Priest, and Warlock have cards that rarely (if ever) see play like Patient Assassin, Mind Games, and Pit Lord.
I understand the push from Blizzard for class identity, but these classes I've just mentioned need some changes to at least the classic set, much more than what has already been done. That or just remove the Classic set from standard. Rotation or not, big changes need to occur.
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Good point made by Likafoss
I agree. Just look at the new wonderfull classic card Icicle, it's complete garbage. (I am not saying the Mage need a buff tho)
The only change they made to the Priest core set is one that made the set worse...
Taking away one of their best basic set cards and replacing it with Radiance is just bad.
That card won't ever see play.
The entirety of the priest quest is to heal to gain the hero power effect. Are you sure you are playing the same game? It is seeing play in Quest priest.
Dr. Boom 5 armor, also hero power gain 5 armor too.
Every turn, your first mech you play has rush.
Wolfmanjack post how you like. Don’t be discouraged. I don’t agree with all that you said, but your posts bring a lot to the forums here. It’s a forum, for discussion so I don’t mind long insightful posts. I appreciate it.
On topic, I do feel like Dr. Boom needs a slight nerf, but I think warrior will still be very competitive to play against - and that’s not a bad thing. I rather have games go past turn 4 or 5. With these Aggro decks games end too quickly.
Every deck should have a weakness. Aggro needs a weakness. And control warrior is no exception... in fact it does have several weaknesses. Quest paladin beats warrior. Out of all the new decks I’ve had the most success against warrior with quest pally. I actually don’t think control warrior is as bad as people say. I think games that end at turn 4 is more toxic to hearthstone. I hope I’m not alone in thinking this.
If they Nerf Warrior then Mage Will be a problem. In my opinion should Nerf both.
Maybe make the dr boom armor hero power less skill dependent and make all dr boom hero powers always follow a set cycle. Maybe only make the starting point and the order of the cycle random. What I am trying to say is that dr boom should every 4 turns offer you one of each of his hero powers
When you play vs control warrior, if you don’t have the right deck, the gameplay will be always very “fun and interactive”. Once I played as heal druid vs control warrior. He literally did nothing the entire game and sat at 10 cards so there was no way I could heal anyone.