This all started with blizzard's new "class identity" post explaining certain things about classes and their direction in the future, and don't worry this isn't just another thread complaining about mind blast or paladins suddenly being necromancers, these changes slightly bother me but i think there is another larger issue at play here.
I have been a hearthstone player for a looooong time i played the beta but i immediately stopped playing when grand tournament came out, and i came back when gadg came out, and have been playing since, i don't normally play for the competitive style, i usually just enjoy deck making and i've noticed this slowly happening for a while that certain classes are being pigeon-holed into certain playstles.
In kobolds and catacombs i made a deathrattle kingsbane deck, it was a control deck that played spellstones and vanishes and tried to outlast the opponent with the healing from kingsbane before the nerfs, this deck was ruined with the nerf to leeching poison. You had no sustain to last through to the late game against more oppressive decks. And with blizzard getting rid of vanish a card that was usually never played in most rogue decks, getting hall of famed' it really gets my noggin joggin about how rogue is just not allowed to have a control style deck in blizzard's eyes. After the nerf to leeching poison one could argue that kingsbane grew to be even more oppressive, because the weapon had to be changed from something where they would probably win eventually through steady buildup to something they need to play for tempo because they could not win late anymore, and it was they played a more aggro style with it.
Let's look at one of the classes that is allowed to play aggro and control, druid. Druid has been spoiled by the developers some players would say and it's hard to disagree, with the ramp, oaken summons package that you could literally just put in any deck and just rotate out your win condition of the past, to the ever evolving token druid of today, these styles of decks are completely dissimilar from each other and blizzard is fine with it. They are fine with it being in druid's "Class identity" Mage is another class that is allowed to play control and aggro in blizzard's eyes, they are allowed to have boardclear and also the ability to go face, and tempo out their opponent. Warrior has the rush playstyle of cards to try to tempo out their opponent, paladin has giant late game taunts and boardclear and sunkeeper tarim, but also is able to play aggro, so why isn't rogue? Even hunter now has a sort of late game plan deck style with Zul'jin being a massive late game play, but rogue is still doing the same thing it did in the very first expansion.
I'm not going to ignore obvious elephants in the room either with this not very thought out rant, maly rogue is a control deck in certain respects, as much as a combo deck can be. And although i haven't touched rogue since KnC because i mainly do not enjoy the aggro style of play i still did not touch it, so don't take my word as gospel here, but i don't know how a deck like that can work without vanish anymore. Double sap, double fan, is pretty much all rogue has without going for neutral high cost minions for AOE and honestly it just seems sad whenever i think about it.
I'm not trying to say i have a better opinion on where the game should go than the developers i'm just wondering why rogue isn't allowed the same things that other classes are. To me rogue losing vanish was a bigger hit than priest losing mindblast, in some respects priest still has cards that envision mindblast fairly well, but rogue doesn't. I'm not "quitting the game" "being salty" about it because i just don't really care about rogue anymore, but they used to be one of my favorite classes, it was really fun punishing a paladin by vanishing several buffed recruits into their hand or beating a control warrior because they mulliganed incorrectly against me as rogue. But i think vanish died because blizzard just doesn't like the mill mechanic being in the game anymore, and that's the whole reason it left.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
Some one sum this long salt thread up for me I don’t have time to read a novel why this guy is salty.
Hes pissed Rogue lost Vanish while other classes can have something thats not thematically fitting their class identity.
To me Rogue must have this weakness tho since they have naturally burst dmg from hand , while other classes identity is more defensive oriented. Also cards like Backstab or Sap ( like for 2 mana make my Tirion cost 16 mana wtf?) are still ridiculously strong.
Considering they just keep giving Warrior more removal that's next to unconditional, I can't say I disagree with you. I think it's less a problem with them trying to restrict the design of other classes and more a problem with them failing to restrict the design of all classes.
If it wasn't just Priest and Rogue they seemed to be targeting with this and actually fixed Warrior's issues with infinite value and infinite removal...
I agree. There was no reason to HoF Vanish when the only rouge deck ran it was Pogo and that deck has been stuck with 40% winrate ever seen, even before Vanish removed.
P/S Sap is not that powerful at all, it's completely useless against Warrior (either control and/or bomb), useless against CC mage, those two most popular classes at high ranks.
Some one sum this long salt thread up for me I don’t have time to read a novel why this guy is salty.
Hes pissed Rogue lost Vanish while other classes can have something thats not thematically fitting their class identity.
To me Rogue must have this weakness tho since they have naturally burst dmg from hand , while other classes identity is more defensive oriented. Also cards like Backstab or Sap ( like for 2 mana make my Tirion cost 16 mana wtf?) are still ridiculously strong.
i feel like you just read the bare minimum of what i actually said, or even worse you read the first sentence and assumed it was just me complaining the whole time, i on't know what was worse. Why even bother clicking on things like this lmao
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
I believe Blizzard did say that Vanish was HOF'd in part because the play style of decks that used it were pretty uninteractive (Quest Rogue for example, or even Maly Rogue). I would recommend Wild for the options Rogue has like Big Rogue that can be somewhat competitive that play as sort of controlling options. Also, I've been enjoying Thief Rogue in Standard, which can run the lifesteal weapon if you want a little sustain. Otherwise, cards from other classes can give you decent defensive options as well.
Don't try to explain why this game is doing bad in this community...it's too toxic and full of teens or adults that think like kids... Most of them are fanboys or never played a quality game in their lives... Anytime a person call you salty u ask them their rank and whoalá! You will find out why so many bitter answers , most of them struggle real hard to get rank 5 each month, most of them will never be anythin in their lives and internet it's the best tool to do that, releasing their toxic attitude instead look to your strongest points and use it to get the game better...
This is a money strategy, everytime they release a good deck this deck is nerfed and they change to the next one untill u had built the fashion decks untill you have zero money, next expansion comes out, you repeat all of again and again...and if you are feeling overwhelmed by a game that choose who win more than 60% of time, don't try to do that in this place...Go to hearthstone official site and write directly to them. There are a lot of good games out there, hearthstone had it's time...now it's just another Disney like enterprise, u can see by the actual playerbase, full of childish players and bad cartoon strategy...
Don't try to explain why this game is doing bad in this community...it's too toxic and full of teens or adults that think like kids... Most of them are fanboys or never played a quality game in their lives... Anytime a person call you salty u ask them their rank and whoalá! You will find out why so many bitter answers , most of them struggle real hard to get rank 5 each month, most of them will never be anythin in their lives and internet it's the best tool to do that, releasing their toxic attitude instead look to your strongest points and use it to get the game better...
This is a money strategy, everytime they release a good deck this deck is nerfed and they change to the next one untill u had built the fashion decks untill you have zero money, next expansion comes out, you repeat all of again and again...and if you are feeling overwhelmed by a game that choose who win more than 60% of time, don't try to do that in this place...Go to hearthstone official site and write directly to them. There are a lot of good games out there, hearthstone had it's time...now it's just another Disney like enterprise, u can see by the actual playerbase, full of childish players and bad cartoon strategy...
Who is this guy? And why is he here?
Good question. Would be nice if he had something to contribute other than complaining in most of his posts.
Some one sum this long salt thread up for me I don’t have time to read a novel why this guy is salty.
Hes pissed Rogue lost Vanish while other classes can have something thats not thematically fitting their class identity.
To me Rogue must have this weakness tho since they have naturally burst dmg from hand , while other classes identity is more defensive oriented. Also cards like Backstab or Sap ( like for 2 mana make my Tirion cost 16 mana wtf?) are still ridiculously strong.
i feel like you just read the bare minimum of what i actually said, or even worse you read the first sentence and assumed it was just me complaining the whole time, i on't know what was worse. Why even bother clicking on things like this lmao
I did read the whole thing.
And so i allowed myself to cut the most irrelevant stuff (for what I assume I-feel-your-Pain would see as such).
This all started with blizzard's new "class identity" post explaining certain things about classes and their direction in the future, and don't worry this isn't just another thread complaining about mind blast or paladins suddenly being necromancers, these changes slightly bother me but i think there is another larger issue at play here.
I have been a hearthstone player for a looooong time i played the beta but i immediately stopped playing when grand tournament came out, and i came back when gadg came out, and have been playing since, i don't normally play for the competitive style, i usually just enjoy deck making and i've noticed this slowly happening for a while that certain classes are being pigeon-holed into certain playstles.
In kobolds and catacombs i made a deathrattle kingsbane deck, it was a control deck that played spellstones and vanishes and tried to outlast the opponent with the healing from kingsbane before the nerfs, this deck was ruined with the nerf to leeching poison. You had no sustain to last through to the late game against more oppressive decks. And with blizzard getting rid of vanish a card that was usually never played in most rogue decks, getting hall of famed' it really gets my noggin joggin about how rogue is just not allowed to have a control style deck in blizzard's eyes. After the nerf to leeching poison one could argue that kingsbane grew to be even more oppressive, because the weapon had to be changed from something where they would probably win eventually through steady buildup to something they need to play for tempo because they could not win late anymore, and it was they played a more aggro style with it.
Let's look at one of the classes that is allowed to play aggro and control, druid. Druid has been spoiled by the developers some players would say and it's hard to disagree, with the ramp, oaken summons package that you could literally just put in any deck and just rotate out your win condition of the past, to the ever evolving token druid of today, these styles of decks are completely dissimilar from each other and blizzard is fine with it. They are fine with it being in druid's "Class identity" Mage is another class that is allowed to play control and aggro in blizzard's eyes, they are allowed to have boardclear and also the ability to go face, and tempo out their opponent. Warrior has the rush playstyle of cards to try to tempo out their opponent, paladin has giant late game taunts and boardclear and sunkeeper tarim, but also is able to play aggro, so why isn't rogue? Even hunter now has a sort of late game plan deck style with Zul'jin being a massive late game play, but rogue is still doing the same thing it did in the very first expansion.
I'm not going to ignore obvious elephants in the room either with this not very thought out rant, maly rogue is a control deck in certain respects, as much as a combo deck can be. And although i haven't touched rogue since KnC because i mainly do not enjoy the aggro style of play i still did not touch it, so don't take my word as gospel here, but i don't know how a deck like that can work without vanish anymore. Double sap, double fan, is pretty much all rogue has without going for neutral high cost minions for AOE and honestly it just seems sad whenever i think about it.
I'm not trying to say i have a better opinion on where the game should go than the developers i'm just wondering why rogue isn't allowed the same things that other classes are. To me rogue losing vanish was a bigger hit than priest losing mindblast, in some respects priest still has cards that envision mindblast fairly well, but rogue doesn't. I'm not "quitting the game" "being salty" about it because i just don't really care about rogue anymore, but they used to be one of my favorite classes, it was really fun punishing a paladin by vanishing several buffed recruits into their hand or beating a control warrior because they mulliganed incorrectly against me as rogue. But i think vanish died because blizzard just doesn't like the mill mechanic being in the game anymore, and that's the whole reason it left.
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
Some one sum this long salt thread up for me I don’t have time to read a novel why this guy is salty.
You wrote a lot. I didn't read it. Are there cliff notes available for your whine and/or salt?
Hes pissed Rogue lost Vanish while other classes can have something thats not thematically fitting their class identity.
To me Rogue must have this weakness tho since they have naturally burst dmg from hand , while other classes identity is more defensive oriented. Also cards like Backstab or Sap ( like for 2 mana make my Tirion cost 16 mana wtf?) are still ridiculously strong.
Considering they just keep giving Warrior more removal that's next to unconditional, I can't say I disagree with you. I think it's less a problem with them trying to restrict the design of other classes and more a problem with them failing to restrict the design of all classes.
If it wasn't just Priest and Rogue they seemed to be targeting with this and actually fixed Warrior's issues with infinite value and infinite removal...
CRUISIN YEEEAH! CRUISIN USA!
I agree. There was no reason to HoF Vanish when the only rouge deck ran it was Pogo and that deck has been stuck with 40% winrate ever seen, even before Vanish removed.
P/S Sap is not that powerful at all, it's completely useless against Warrior (either control and/or bomb), useless against CC mage, those two most popular classes at high ranks.
If you like playing control, just play a different class besides Rogue. No need for all the salt.
There are pogo decks that got to legend.
It's very nice to see replies talking about how they can't read or that i am salty, really goes to show how good the ignore feature is on this site.
I appreciate the people that replied that actually added something to the topic, thanks for existing.
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
i feel like you just read the bare minimum of what i actually said, or even worse you read the first sentence and assumed it was just me complaining the whole time, i on't know what was worse. Why even bother clicking on things like this lmao
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
Strange, I somehow though Jainia was going to be the OP of this thread.
It's "voilà," bro. Fucking Christ. "Whoalà." Jesus.
I believe Blizzard did say that Vanish was HOF'd in part because the play style of decks that used it were pretty uninteractive (Quest Rogue for example, or even Maly Rogue). I would recommend Wild for the options Rogue has like Big Rogue that can be somewhat competitive that play as sort of controlling options. Also, I've been enjoying Thief Rogue in Standard, which can run the lifesteal weapon if you want a little sustain. Otherwise, cards from other classes can give you decent defensive options as well.
Nice one. You got me.
Who is this guy? And why is he here?
Vanish just gets worse each expansion. When a card starts to limit design space it's time for it to go.
Do you really feel like Rogue needs to have this type of spell to stay competitive?
Just before rotation Rogue was fine, and just because your deck is not tier 1 doesn't mean you need to write an essay about it.
There are plenty of cards out there to make a good deck, and the meta changes every few weeks.
Right now I see mostly Paladin. And Paladin was dumpster at the start of the rotation.
Good question. Would be nice if he had something to contribute other than complaining in most of his posts.
Maybe read the whole thing buddy, i know, reading is hard
Those who are given more in life, must not cling to it, but risk it all at every moment!
I did read the whole thing.
And so i allowed myself to cut the most irrelevant stuff (for what I assume I-feel-your-Pain would see as such).
I couldn’t agree more. Hearthstone developers are straight up retarded