How many of those are 2 mana and avoid deathrattle activation?
1. Silence which doesnt remove body from field
2.Shield Slam, arguably another stupid card. (doesnt dodge deathrattle
and requires sufficient armor)
0 points.
But you don´t loose your minion. You just have to play it again. Sap just give Rogues on more turn. Do you know how bad it is for Rogue f.e. you play a big taunt, Rogue doesn´t have removal and just make a littel damage with other spells or minions, next turn Rogue got sap and have nothing else to play, then sap the taunt back to get one more turn. Next turn you play your taunt again with full live! This is also for minions with a good battlecry. Not great for Rogue, but somethimes the only thing they can do.
And I say it again: Rogue is a combo class. They need cheap cards for combos!
How many of those are 2 mana and avoid deathrattle activation?
1. Silence which doesnt remove body from field
2.Shield Slam, arguably another stupid card. (doesnt dodge deathrattle
and requires sufficient armor)
0 points.
But you don´t loose your minion. You just have to play it again. Sap just give Rogues on more turn. Do you know how bad it is for Rogue f.e. you play a big taunt, Rogue doesn´t have removal and just make a littel damage with other spells or minions, next turn Rogue got sap and have nothing else to play, then sap the taunt back to get one more turn. Next turn you play your taunt again with full live! This is also for minions with a good battlecry. Not great for Rogue, but somethimes the only thing they can do.
And I say it again: Rogue is a combo class. They need cheap cards for combos!
Walk the plank, assassinate, contract all strongly disagree.
But those actually have a significant mana cost.(though i think 4 mana to destroy a minion is pretty damn good)
Original post was more about does it make sense that Rogue(Dexterity(combo), poison, stealth) has this card, not so much how you enjoy how it enables play. Sap is like a force/wind magic spell to me and makes absolutely no sense.
With vanish out and vilespine rotated I can say at least the most obnoxious rogue removal is gone.
Sap is specifically a card designed to generate tempo or bypass a taunt to achieve chip/burst/lethal damage. It does that job correctly. It also works as a soft silence for any buffs that are not already part of a minon's card text.
Certainly a card that increases decision making for both players with regards to what minion/s to play, whether to go wide or tall, what and when to Sap for highest payoff etc.
Healthy card, I don't see any issues with it. It was frustrating to play against as Warlock last rotation when Voidlord was important but its okay for things to have weaknesses.
How many of those are 2 mana and avoid deathrattle activation?
1. Silence which doesnt remove body from field
2.Shield Slam, arguably another stupid card. (doesnt dodge deathrattle
and requires sufficient armor)
0 points.
But you don´t loose your minion. You just have to play it again. Sap just give Rogues on more turn. Do you know how bad it is for Rogue f.e. you play a big taunt, Rogue doesn´t have removal and just make a littel damage with other spells or minions, next turn Rogue got sap and have nothing else to play, then sap the taunt back to get one more turn. Next turn you play your taunt again with full live! This is also for minions with a good battlecry. Not great for Rogue, but somethimes the only thing they can do.
And I say it again: Rogue is a combo class. They need cheap cards for combos!
Walk the plank, assassinate, contract all strongly disagree.
But those actually have a significant mana cost.(though i think 4 mana to destroy a minion is pretty damn good)
Original post was more about does it make sense that Rogue(Dexterity(combo), poison, stealth) has this card, not so much how you enjoy how it enables play. Sap is like a force/wind magic spell to me and makes absolutely no sense.
With vanish out and vilespine rotated I can say at least the most obnoxious rogue removal is gone.
4 mana destroy a minion is pretty damn good when is a warlock card. For rogue, is an huge tempo loss and only greedy rogues deck will use this card. A more refined tempo/aggro will just shit on it.
But Even tho sap is fine as a card in Rogue, the card itself is very polarizing in my opinion.
For 2 mana you basically double the mana cost of the minion your opponent played. This is obviously negated if minions have a battlecry etc. But against deathrattle , Sap can be one of the most powerful card in the game for the mana cost.
Man, if u can't play around a card that is so fair that many players cutted it off tempo rogue lists or plays just one copy of it, that is your problem, nerfing it makes no sense at all
Are you a hearthstone developer that can say that this is their protocol when designing cards? Please share how you KNOW that it isn't a deciding factor.
WoW provides inspiration only; it does not mandate gameplay. if you apply yourself, I'm sure you can find multiple interviews saying exactly that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Blizzard finally realized vanish makes 0 sense for Rogue. What about Sap? Same stupid stuff just for single target.
I believe the key to this is the single target specification rather than effecting the whole board. (as others have mentioned) I also think that Vanish in terms of flavour for a Rogue, is simply weird - in truth, Valeera the Hollow is what Vanish probably should have been trying to achieve. Rogues don't normally make other characters go invisible.... at least they didn't the last time I played WoW anyway. :-P
IMO Vanish totally makes sense for Rogue, it's even the key of their identity, as they are defined in WoW, abusing control to stun lock their opponent then vanish to do the same again until their opponent go out of CD's and ressources.
It's likely the Hearthstone use of Vanish which makes your opponent board disappear which is totally unlogical. To me, they recently printed what should have been Vanish since beginning, and it's Daring Escape, this should have been the former Vanish. As it allows to get back your minions (with powerful battlecries for examples) and launch them again against your opponent.
And to Scorpyon, you got the Dissimulation cloak in WoW which makes you and raid members dissappear if they are within 30 ft of your position. Well you cannot use it in fight tho so it's not totally a vanish.
And to answer OP Sap is really fine to me, a powerful but well designed tempo card for a tempo class, i'm good with it.
A class's identity may be partially based on how it plays in WoW, but that's not a deciding factor in whether to keep it in Hearthstone. Like, at all.
Also, the names of things are not nearly as important as what they do. A good name helps you remember a card, but it doesn't really affect the gameplay.
Totally agreed, that it should not be a deciding factor, was just saying that Daring Escape was to me the card that is the closest to WoW's Vanish
But you don´t loose your minion. You just have to play it again. Sap just give Rogues on more turn. Do you know how bad it is for Rogue f.e. you play a big taunt, Rogue doesn´t have removal and just make a littel damage with other spells or minions, next turn Rogue got sap and have nothing else to play, then sap the taunt back to get one more turn. Next turn you play your taunt again with full live! This is also for minions with a good battlecry. Not great for Rogue, but somethimes the only thing they can do.
And I say it again: Rogue is a combo class. They need cheap cards for combos!
Walk the plank, assassinate, contract all strongly disagree.
But those actually have a significant mana cost.(though i think 4 mana to destroy a minion is pretty damn good)
Original post was more about does it make sense that Rogue(Dexterity(combo), poison, stealth) has this card, not so much how you enjoy how it enables play. Sap is like a force/wind magic spell to me and makes absolutely no sense.
With vanish out and vilespine rotated I can say at least the most obnoxious rogue removal is gone.
Fun > Meta
Sap is specifically a card designed to generate tempo or bypass a taunt to achieve chip/burst/lethal damage. It does that job correctly. It also works as a soft silence for any buffs that are not already part of a minon's card text.
Certainly a card that increases decision making for both players with regards to what minion/s to play, whether to go wide or tall, what and when to Sap for highest payoff etc.
Healthy card, I don't see any issues with it. It was frustrating to play against as Warlock last rotation when Voidlord was important but its okay for things to have weaknesses.
4 mana destroy a minion is pretty damn good when is a warlock card.
For rogue, is an huge tempo loss and only greedy rogues deck will use this card.
A more refined tempo/aggro will just shit on it.
Leper Gnome
deleted
But Even tho sap is fine as a card in Rogue, the card itself is very polarizing in my opinion.
For 2 mana you basically double the mana cost of the minion your opponent played. This is obviously negated if minions have a battlecry etc. But against deathrattle , Sap can be one of the most powerful card in the game for the mana cost.
Man, if u can't play around a card that is so fair that many players cutted it off tempo rogue lists or plays just one copy of it, that is your problem, nerfing it makes no sense at all
Sap is fine as it is.
WoW provides inspiration only; it does not mandate gameplay. if you apply yourself, I'm sure you can find multiple interviews saying exactly that.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
imo bring back vanish remove sap
I remember Kripp something like 3 years ago proposed to change the text to "silence and freeze a minion".
I think sap is powerful, but fine
No
Totally agreed, that it should not be a deciding factor, was just saying that Daring Escape was to me the card that is the closest to WoW's Vanish
Yes
I'll complain about giants and conjurers calling while we're on topic.
Who ever decided that would be a fun mechanic while getting rid of Vanish?
Bigger mistake than Barnes.
#2moreyearsofthis?
Probably someone who doesn't like having their giants vanished?
Just a guess.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
why not? its pretty broken for 2 mana
maybe increase cost to 3 instead then
literally still a 0 mana card with prep
not really. with prep you are using 2 cards to gain 1 turn of tempo. if you dont achieve/set up lethal, then youre basically screwed anyways
If Sap was raised to 3-mana, then how would it still be a 0-mana card with Preparation?
Rogues are about being tricky and manipulating the environment to their advantage, being smart, tactical and relying on wits and timing.