Hearthpwn

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Wurstfett >>

Quote from Blue_Banana_whotookthisname >>

Quote from Wurstfett >

If there are "sexist" female characters in Blizz games, there are "sexist" male characters as well

Well that claim would put the burden of proof on you. I have never been turned on by any male character in Hearthstone so please do tell me which ones of them are being objectified in the game.

 It seems you didn`t understand my argument. I say there is no sexist characters in HS. But if someone claims there are sexist female characters, I want an explanation why these characters should be sexist and why the criteria which make these characters sexist don`t aplly to male characters as well.

 It's not that representations of the female body are inherently sexist. No one is claiming that, and shame on you for putting words in my mouth.

My claim was that when a game contains sexualized representations of ONLY women and NOT men, the game overall is sexist. Where is the Incubus card? Where is the male "Secretholder" wearing very tight clothing with his ass turned provocatively toward the viewer?

 I feel as if people look at these things from a very heteronormative male lens...

Y'all can't have heard many women swoon over men before if you think that there aren't sexualized depictions of men in this game and in Warcraft.

This overly protective father syndrome that a lot of men have nowadays is extremely frustrating and condescending as a woman and I am so god damned tired of it.

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 You're here complaining about people complaining, so don't get up on some high horse here.

It' like with the Whitemane card, it wouldn't have bothered me if it was a new card.

It's the fact that it's Whitemane which bothers me. The message that it sends is that the men with puritanical and extremely sex-negative and conservative views are right and that women need to cover up or else be labelled sexist names whilst men can run around wearing far less just fine.

This censorship doesn't happen in a vacuum, it's based in already existing views irl about women and modesty which affects women negatively in real life and controls us but doesn't affect men.

It's like men who take photos of themselves shirtless in the mirror but then go after women for posting photos where they have cleavage. Their views are basically being perpetuated and they're being told that they're right.

Next to the whole China thing, you could argue that displaying women in this manner is perceived as sexism nowadays. I personally would argue that you only need to go on Instagram to see how a lot of women display themself, because they choose to do so. Of course many other don't but is it that wrong if art imitates a certain group, who is trying to portray themself as strong independent and in full control how they are showing their body?

It's like many other people in this thread said: If they were new cards nobody would give a fuck but changing existing designs just creates discussion where none need to be.

Quote from Wurstfett >>

We need a hentai mod for HS! ;D

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thing in the near future.  Shadowverse has something similar and it all started with their own "Jaina" having her cleavage covered up

Quote from Awoozah >>

Quote from ManThighs >>

Quote from NotoriousBLT>>

On the scale of things that bother me the replacement of some titillating fantasy art is pretty low down tbh. 

 Ik. If people are butthurt over this, they seriously need to think about their lives. Like how often/why are you upset at the removal of handdrawn boobs and some blood. The cards still play the same. 

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 You're here complaining about people complaining, so don't get up on some high horse here.

It' like with the Whitemane card, it wouldn't have bothered me if it was a new card.

It's the fact that it's Whitemane which bothers me. The message that it sends is that the men with puritanical and extremely sex-negative and conservative views are right and that women need to cover up or else be labelled sexist names whilst men can run around wearing far less just fine.

This censorship doesn't happen in a vacuum, it's based in already existing views irl about women and modesty which affects women negatively in real life and controls us but doesn't affect men.

It's like men who take photos of themselves shirtless in the mirror but then go after women for posting photos where they have cleavage. Their views are basically being perpetuated and they're being told that they're right.

 

 I'd actually disagree. The sexual portrail of these cards is done for fanservice and imo adds nothing positive to the game. I agree that it should be the same for men as well but I never thought seeing Demons in bikini's was ever empowering in any sort of light. I think the changes are in a generally positive direction and some cards may appear less demeaning. 

Wel... next time someone tells you good things about dictators... remember them they waste their time on this stuff while their cities get turned into toxic unbreathable hellholes.

I'm getting really tired of China's shit. Was it that hard to make those visuals affect only China and tournaments that include China?

It's all OK as long as they don't nerf Valeera

Quote from Awoozah >>

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Wurstfett >>

Quote from Blue_Banana_whotookthisname >>

Quote from Wurstfett >

If there are "sexist" female characters in Blizz games, there are "sexist" male characters as well

Well that claim would put the burden of proof on you. I have never been turned on by any male character in Hearthstone so please do tell me which ones of them are being objectified in the game.

 It seems you didn`t understand my argument. I say there is no sexist characters in HS. But if someone claims there are sexist female characters, I want an explanation why these characters should be sexist and why the criteria which make these characters sexist don`t aplly to male characters as well.

 It's not that representations of the female body are inherently sexist. No one is claiming that, and shame on you for putting words in my mouth.

My claim was that when a game contains sexualized representations of ONLY women and NOT men, the game overall is sexist. Where is the Incubus card? Where is the male "Secretholder" wearing very tight clothing with his ass turned provocatively toward the viewer?

 I feel as if people look at these things from a very heteronormative male lens...

Y'all can't have heard many women swoon over men before if you think that there aren't sexualized depictions of men in this game and in Warcraft.

This overly protective father syndrome that a lot of men have nowadays is extremely frustrating and condescending as a woman and I am so god damned tired of it.

 Clearly there is plenty of art in HS that shows men with ripped physiques but personally I don't think it's sexualised in the way that the Secretkeeper or Mistress of Pain art is, to use the cases in point. Reno Jackson isn't coyly showing his tight ass to the viewer and Kadgar isn't wearing a pair of budgie-smugglers. I am of the opinion with ManThighs above that this kind of art is just fanservice and adds nothing. 

I mean, it's not like I find these cards offensive or anything. I don't care that they've been replaced but I also didn't care that they existed. I also don't think the game, or fantasy art in general, is sexist it's just these sort of images are a trope of fantasy art that personally I find a bit adolescent and unnecessary. 

I think you are projecting a bit by talking about 'overly-protective father syndrome', nobody is asking you to avert your eyes, telling you how to dress or worrying about your innocence being stolen away by this innocuous card art. People just have different opinions on it which they're expressing.

Quote from funkhelmfriedel >>

eviscerate is one of the few Cards i crafted golden because of the blood animation. now it's just a lazy artwork… i want my dust back. 

Took me a while to figure out what had changed with Eviscerate, as I don't own a gold version of the card.  I think that a dust rebate is in order here like any other nerf.  I don't want to profit from this; I just want what's fair.

This was clearly done because of China. So why not do these changes to chinese clients only? My country loves boobs and blood, and we're more likely to play the game if it appeals to us.

Quote from Kujis >>

This was clearly done because of China. So why not do these changes to chinese clients only? My country loves boobs and blood, and we're more likely to play the game if it appeals to us.

 There is no confirmation that this happened because of China, BUT ...

"Esports" is the answer to your question. It would be weird and confusing if the card art displayed in tournaments were unfamiliar to half the viewership.

Ok, so I quickly posted back on page 3 yesterday because I assumed the lifespan of this thread was measured in seconds.

I can't put into words how shocked I was to come back here and find this still open, so let's actually get serious for a second.

I understand that leaving a thread like this open carries certain risks and annoyances.  For one, I know that the mod on duty has to be watching this thing like a hawk, because, when it comes to questionable content regarding gender and nationality, you can go from idiocy to actionable stuff in some countries very quickly.  Furthermore, there is no question that when you treat people as if they are adults, there will always be a few that fall well short of that expectation . . . ESPECIALLY with the pseudo-anonymity of the net.

Having said that, one more time with less pith and glib, thanks.  It is a rare thing these days to actually be treated as if one can handle questionable content without completely shitting one's cereal, and it is very refreshing.  Honestly, I haven't seen a thread like this survive the night on gaming forums since 2012 Team Liquid days.

Now, as to the topic at hand, I said a few things that might cause the average reader to believe I protest these changes last time.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

OF COURSE, they make these changes if they think there is even a possibility that the old content could cause problems . . . in new OR existing markets.

OF COURSE, different countries have different censorship standards.  For Christ's Sake, you can't meme in Europe without potentially being sued by the IP owner anymore (thank you Article 13).  So I just know none of you complaining are doing so from the EU, because pot is definitely calling kettle black (in a non-racial allegorical way) in that case.  Don't even get me started on the proposed insanity before the US House of Reps on this subject.

and . . . by the way . . . OF COURSE, you are lying to yourself if you start a post with "I don't give a damn about these changes, BUT . . . "

As the great American philosopher Jimmy Dore once said, if you include the word "but" in a sentence, you have just erased, and probably are about to actively disprove, everything that came before the word.  See, for example, last Thursday's US Democratic Primary Debate ("I don't believe you are a racist, BUT . . . ").   This thread is no exception.

Bottom line is this.  If you are a fan of Hearthstone, and not just a fan of edgy content and defending perceived slights from PC culture (which, by the way, I don't put in quotes because it is definitely a thing), you are fine with this change.  I have no idea whether these changes were necessary, but they are so completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things, of course Blizzard would take this tiny precaution.

As for commentary on one country's policies over another, let he whose country lays no bullshit on the altar of PC cast the first stone.  Something tells me there won't be many rocks flying.

I agree. This thread is bad and should be closed.

Quote from funkhelmfriedel >>

eviscerate is one of the few Cards i crafted golden because of the blood animation. now it's just a lazy artwork… i want my dust back. 

 On this I would absolutely agree. If a Golden was crafted because of the art animation, players should have the option of a full refund.

@Shadowrisen
I think it's mostly about opposing (perceived) censorship due to ideas from hundreds of years ago. Expressing frustration and/or quitting the game for it, is one way to vote with your feet. And calling people hypocrites may be correct, but it's not an argument against what they're saying or for something else. At best it's an observation, neutral on its own accord.
Nothing wrong with pointing out (perceived) wrongs, *even* if you can't (yet) live up to them yourself.
Ideals matter, even in games.

Played since beta and never even recognized those blood drops :D

I am more than anything annoyed something I enjoyed got changed because of some randoms whose opinion I never asked.

It's not like other art changes like Omega Defender or Witchwood Grizzly, whose former versions I also liked, but got changed out of technical reasons, not to earn approval of some backwards state.

Quote from Selis >>

@Shadowrisen
I think it's mostly about opposing (perceived) censorship due to ideas from hundreds of years ago. Expressing frustration and/or quitting the game for it, is one way to vote with your feet. And calling people hypocrites may be correct, but it's not an argument against what they're saying or for something else. At best it's an observation, neutral on its own accord.
Nothing wrong with pointing out (perceived) wrongs, *even* if you can't (yet) live up to them yourself.
Ideals matter, even in games.

 So, I think you're talking about the hypocrisy calling out one country when your country does stupid stuff too.  If I am correct, I actually am not talking about hypocrisy.  I'm talking about the unspoken premise of a lot of these posts that seems to be, "China is not worth taking into account".  It goes beyond hypocrisy when clearly Blizzard bends to accommodate European and American standards.  I don't like to use the R-word, especially when we're talking about a nationality instead of a race, but there is something repugnant about the idea.

Now, if someone has an argument to make about why China's standards actually are less credible, I'll listen, but I suppose that's where we would get back to hypocrisy.  ALL of these societal considerations are idiotic, as far as I'm concerned, but it is EVEN MORE idiotic to suggest they shouldn't matter to a corporation trying to do business in these places.

Lastly, as a general rule I'd say the messenger does matter to the context of the message.  You are correct, and I will heartily agree with you that it is often forgotten, that hypocrisy =/= wrong.  However, the issue with calling out PC culture is that one can't help but make assumptions about the good or bad faith nature of the criticism based on the repetoire (sp?) of the messenger.

In simpler terms, if the person saying it is full of shit, I'm less likely to believe the surface criticism is genuinely made, regardless of the merits.

Thanks for changing this, Blizzard. The old art was pretty uncomfortable (Secret Keeper's butt&boobs pose especially). The new cards are still sexy, but look like actual agents that are sexy, rather than objects to lust after.