Hi everyone. I am a long time lurker of hearthpwn and this is my first forum post. As you have probably gathered from the summary I am an avid Hunter fan. Started long before Hearthstone- in Vanilla WoW I played an Orc Hunter... so the class and I go back a long time. When Hearthstone first released I was just naturally pulled towards Rexxar and I've always really loved the mechanics of the Hunter (RIP Starving Buzzard). I know the Hunter has definitely popped up as a dominant force in the meta from time to time over the years but as it stands now I feel like the class has a hard time standing up against some of the really cool stuff other classes can do. Aside from getting lucky with Mech combo's (looking at you Oblivitron + Fireworks Tech and Venomizer + Missile Launcher to name a few) the class is truly lacking in skills and abilities compared to some of the truly amazing things other classes like Paladin, Shaman, Warrior, Druid, Mage etc can do (RIP Rogue). The immense value received from cards like Kangor's Endless Army, Annoy-o-Module and other Paladin mechs, Hagatha the Witch, Shudderwock, Dr. Boom, Mad Genius and the absolute utility these cards provide compared to Dire Frenzy, Zul'jin, Unleash the Beast and the Hunter mech set is very one sided against the Hunter class in my opinion. Now don't get me wrong, I've pulled off some amazing things with Zul'jin and I had a blast with an above average but still budget Hunter mech deck but after Rank 5 (and into Legendary) this class really hits a wall in regards to its capabilities, survivability and utility. I recognize Oblivitron Mech Hunters and Secret Hunters are competitors in this meta, and again also capable of some really awesome combinations but when you really look at this from a skill per skill perspective I believe the Hunter is getting a little bit short changed here.
A couple of buffs I would like to see for Hunter cards:
Dire Frenzy Give a Beast +3/+3. Shuffle 3 copies into your deck with +3/+3 Keep all status effects (similar to Kangor's Endless Army "They keep any Magnetic upgrades") I believe this remains balanced because all effects and upgrades would be kept, including potentially negative effects placed on your minion by your opponent. And yes this means you could potentially add some huge hitting Well Fed Scavenging Hyena's into your deck via Dire Frenzy... I believe this would allow for even more diverse style of Beast Hunter game play.
Zul'jin I would like to see Zul'jin lowered to 7 cost. Fight me (/s).
Marked Shot Deal 4 damage. Discover a spell. (either change cost to 5 or lower damage to 3 and keep it at 4 I think for balance purposes)
Hunting Party Summon copies of two random beasts in your hand
I know that some of these changes may seem radical compared to the perception of the current balance and meta but I think they would do a lot for the Hunter class in regards to diversification of deck types and playstyles instead of being shoehorned into one viable deck type. I'd also like to see some Spell Damage+ Neutral Beasts added for obvious reasons. I'd also like to hear from everyone else in regards to their opinions on the current meta and changes they would like to see made to either this class or others. Do you agree or disagree with any or all of the changes I propose? Or should I just get gud? If you read through this whole post congratulations this is the end.
Beast Hunter already is a really strong deck due to how well it goes against Control Warrior and has good matchups pretty much across the board. As for other hunter decks, as you mentioned both Mech and Secret hunter are also good and there's also a lot more spell-focused hunters having success too and so I think buffing the class, especially with a lot of cards that are currently seeing a lot of play is a bit over-the-top.
Ignoring that stuff and just looking at the buffs you suggested, a lot of them either just seems mostly worthless (such as the Spirit of the Lynx and the Dire Frenzy ones) or incredibly busted, such as Zul'jin being 7 and Hunting Party being potentially one of the largest mana cheating cards in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Hunter doesn't have much for mana cheating (nothing that is super sticky anyway) so that's why I feel like Hunting Party could use a buff of some sort like that. And the reason I proposed those changes for Spirit and Dire is because of strengthening Beast decks that utilize Master's Call. Hunter straight draw power is a bit wonky compared to other classes and outside of utilizing other mechanics to summon/copy/whatever your cards out of your deck (your Malygos deck seems to have some cool things going on for it in that regard), it's really easy to lose momentum as a Hunter. And even though the Hunter can hit hard and fast and pull of some Astounding! combos I still think it's a bit weak in its overall utility compared to what some of these other classes are pulling off. Clearly I'm biased towards the Hunter class and I know it's tough to make balance changes without breaking something else I just think the Hunter really lacks versatility compared to what I'm seeing with these other classes.
Edit; I have a real love/hate relationship with Tracking
Hunter shoehorned into one playtype? Hunter has more high tier decks than any class in the game right now. Bomb hunter, secret hunter, and midrange/beast hunter and even mechrattle hunter is flirting with being good (the nechromechanic buff might put it over). One thing I do miss from pre-rotation was that almost every class had a ton of archetypes, now some barely have one. but hopefully another expansion or two will fix that.
The first couple cards are great hunter cards. Zul'jin and Dire Frenzy are already great cards that in no way need a buff. Zul'jin to 7 mana is kind of absurd if you consider the power level of that card and the fact that genuinely terrible cards like Dr. Morrigan got a 2 mana buff, and you want to give Zul'jin 3, lol. Marked shot going face I don't think matters, Spirit of the Lynx being a beast probably makes it too good.
I do like the hunter party suggestion. It might be too overtuned but the idea in general is cool. I really liked big beast deathrattle hunter from previous rotation.
Beast/midrange hunter is pretty amazing atm. It might not be tier 1, but it's still quite competitive. Something that doesn't happen as much as with other classes is that you have to choose your deck carefully, there are many suboptimal versions around that people still play.
Regarding Zul'jin, it's absolutely broken and, in my opinion, miles ahead of hagatha, dr.boom, kangor's or shudderwock (in terms of what hunter needs). There's no need to reduce the cost.
I've played around 150 games with the deck in my signature and dropping Zul'jin wins you the game (in the spot vs aggro, in the following 3-5 turns vs control) about 95% of the time, whether you're ahead or behind. It's just ridiculous.
Sidenote: I agree that spirit of the lynx and hunting party could use a buff, but not in the way you propose (I agree with Echo_ on the reasons why)
Haven't read all the posts but midrange hunter is currently tier 1 in the masters qualifiers. Most of the wins are midrange hunters. It doesn't need any buff at all. Hunter has so many tools in order to efficiently tech against any match up.
No need to buff anything as the Archetype is a straight up control killer. I went 6-0 from rank 5 to 3 with this today. It is not quite perfect but worked very well and is fun to play, with several unexpected combos.
Zul'jin is not needed going that heavy on the 6-drops imo.
In today's grandmaster matches only one player (Amnesiac) played a Zul'jin Hunter (only Hunter at all actually) and he lost twice to a Holy Wrath Paladin. That pally deck was no joke and I think Amnesiac was running without Unleash the Beast which is a huge risk in my opinion.
Hi everyone. I am a long time lurker of hearthpwn and this is my first forum post. As you have probably gathered from the summary I am an avid Hunter fan. Started long before Hearthstone- in Vanilla WoW I played an Orc Hunter... so the class and I go back a long time. When Hearthstone first released I was just naturally pulled towards Rexxar and I've always really loved the mechanics of the Hunter (RIP Starving Buzzard). I know the Hunter has definitely popped up as a dominant force in the meta from time to time over the years but as it stands now I feel like the class has a hard time standing up against some of the really cool stuff other classes can do. Aside from getting lucky with Mech combo's (looking at you Oblivitron + Fireworks Tech and Venomizer + Missile Launcher to name a few) the class is truly lacking in skills and abilities compared to some of the truly amazing things other classes like Paladin, Shaman, Warrior, Druid, Mage etc can do (RIP Rogue). The immense value received from cards like Kangor's Endless Army, Annoy-o-Module and other Paladin mechs, Hagatha the Witch, Shudderwock, Dr. Boom, Mad Genius and the absolute utility these cards provide compared to Dire Frenzy, Zul'jin, Unleash the Beast and the Hunter mech set is very one sided against the Hunter class in my opinion. Now don't get me wrong, I've pulled off some amazing things with Zul'jin and I had a blast with an above average but still budget Hunter mech deck but after Rank 5 (and into Legendary) this class really hits a wall in regards to its capabilities, survivability and utility. I recognize Oblivitron Mech Hunters and Secret Hunters are competitors in this meta, and again also capable of some really awesome combinations but when you really look at this from a skill per skill perspective I believe the Hunter is getting a little bit short changed here.
A couple of buffs I would like to see for Hunter cards:
Dire Frenzy Give a Beast +3/+3. Shuffle 3 copies into your deck with +3/+3 Keep all status effects (similar to Kangor's Endless Army "They keep any Magnetic upgrades") I believe this remains balanced because all effects and upgrades would be kept, including potentially negative effects placed on your minion by your opponent. And yes this means you could potentially add some huge hitting Well Fed Scavenging Hyena's into your deck via Dire Frenzy... I believe this would allow for even more diverse style of Beast Hunter game play.
Zul'jin I would like to see Zul'jin lowered to 7 cost. Fight me (/s).
Marked Shot Deal 4 damage. Discover a spell. (either change cost to 5 or lower damage to 3 and keep it at 4 I think for balance purposes)
Hunting Party Summon copies of two random beasts in your hand
I know that some of these changes may seem radical compared to the perception of the current balance and meta but I think they would do a lot for the Hunter class in regards to diversification of deck types and playstyles instead of being shoehorned into one viable deck type. I'd also like to see some Spell Damage+ Neutral Beasts added for obvious reasons. I'd also like to hear from everyone else in regards to their opinions on the current meta and changes they would like to see made to either this class or others. Do you agree or disagree with any or all of the changes I propose? Or should I just get gud? If you read through this whole post congratulations this is the end.
TL;DR jaded hunter player
I was seriously trying to read your post until I saw 7 mana Zul'jin, you have to be a troll.
If you are serious about it then you are the most insane human being to ever walk this earth. Zul'jin is literally the only balanced hero card in the entire game. All the DKs are either trash or busted and then Hagatha is strong and can win you games via pure bullshit RNG and Dr. Boom is way too strong for the current standard. Zul'jin is a perfect balanced play for 10 mana, if you're gonna spend all your turn on a single card it better help you swing the game but not give you infinite value as pretty much any other Hero card.
I was seriously trying to read your post until I saw 7 mana Zul'jin, you have to be a troll.
If you are serious about it then you are the most insane human being to ever walk this earth. Zul'jin is literally the only balanced hero card in the entire game. All the DKs are either trash or busted and then Hagatha is strong and can win you games via pure bullshit RNG and Dr. Boom is way too strong for the current standard. Zul'jin is a perfect balanced play for 10 mana, if you're gonna spend all your turn on a single card it better help you swing the game but not give you infinite value as pretty much any other Hero card.
I hear what you are saying and I don't disagree. Zul'jin being 7 cost definitely seems like a radical idea, but would have draw backs too, like being tempted to drop him after not proc'ing enough spells. 7 would also give you the benefit of getting able to play one or two more cards before/after dropping Zul'jin like as is all the other Hero cards. I know he is still strong as a 10 drop but to your point of the other "broken" heroes I think lowering his cost would be fairly balanced considering how the other classes are performing. Zul'jin does not win every game against other decks dropping their heroes and getting in their combos. Yes, my win rate after dropping Zul'jin is probably around 70% still but its been dropping the other classes are naturally adapting because they just have way more versatility than the Hunter currently.
I was seriously trying to read your post until I saw 7 mana Zul'jin, you have to be a troll.
If you are serious about it then you are the most insane human being to ever walk this earth. Zul'jin is literally the only balanced hero card in the entire game. All the DKs are either trash or busted and then Hagatha is strong and can win you games via pure bullshit RNG and Dr. Boom is way too strong for the current standard. Zul'jin is a perfect balanced play for 10 mana, if you're gonna spend all your turn on a single card it better help you swing the game but not give you infinite value as pretty much any other Hero card.
I hear what you are saying and I don't disagree. Zul'jin being 7 cost definitely seems like a radical idea, but would have draw backs too, like being tempted to drop him after not proc'ing enough spells. 7 would also give you the benefit of getting able to play one or two more cards before/after dropping Zul'jin like as is all the other Hero cards. I know he is still strong as a 10 drop but to your point of the other "broken" heroes I think lowering his cost would be fairly balanced considering how the other classes are performing. Zul'jin does not win every game against other decks dropping their heroes and getting in their combos. Yes, my win rate after dropping Zul'jin is probably around 70% still but its been dropping the other classes are naturally adapting because they just have way more versatility than the Hunter currently.
What game are you playing? Hunter is really good atm and the only really bad match-up was Rogue which is now weaker (No kids it isn't dead, tempo face rogue doesn't work anymore but the class is still decent to be tier 2). Mid-range Beast Hunter is super solid as it beats Warrior due to precisely Zul'jin and also Dire Frenzy, it can beat Mage with pure pressure and SMorc and against most other decks/classes it has fair game, I think the Secret Hunter is also decent enough but I think in the current meta Mid-Range feels stronger.
Also, well of course it would be fantastic if every card was cheaper and you could play more cards alongside it but there's a point for cards being as certain cost you know? most 10 mana cards have defining abilities (if they are good enough or not that's another story) because you have to spend your entire turn doing nothing else than playing them, this can be seen in cards like Bloodreaver Gul'dan or Deathwing... and yes, Zul'jin as well, replaying all your spells is incredibly powerful as you can control what he does and he genrally gives you a beefy board, a couple spells and some secrets so saying it should cost less is the most bias and honestly dumb "buff" anyone can suggest.
I used to play beast hunter, the only 2 cards I would change is master's Call and starvng buzzard.
I would change MC to "discover a minion if it is a beast discover another minion" This would let us get more creative with our beast hunter decks. Shaw/Houndmaster/Spirit/Beastmaster.
I hated baku/kaleseth/Genn/To my side/rhok and i hate Master's Call too.
Hi everyone. I am a long time lurker of hearthpwn and this is my first forum post. As you have probably gathered from the summary I am an avid Hunter fan. Started long before Hearthstone- in Vanilla WoW I played an Orc Hunter... so the class and I go back a long time. When Hearthstone first released I was just naturally pulled towards Rexxar and I've always really loved the mechanics of the Hunter (RIP Starving Buzzard). I know the Hunter has definitely popped up as a dominant force in the meta from time to time over the years but as it stands now I feel like the class has a hard time standing up against some of the really cool stuff other classes can do. Aside from getting lucky with Mech combo's (looking at you Oblivitron + Fireworks Tech and Venomizer + Missile Launcher to name a few) the class is truly lacking in skills and abilities compared to some of the truly amazing things other classes like Paladin, Shaman, Warrior, Druid, Mage etc can do (RIP Rogue). The immense value received from cards like Kangor's Endless Army, Annoy-o-Module and other Paladin mechs, Hagatha the Witch, Shudderwock, Dr. Boom, Mad Genius and the absolute utility these cards provide compared to Dire Frenzy, Zul'jin, Unleash the Beast and the Hunter mech set is very one sided against the Hunter class in my opinion. Now don't get me wrong, I've pulled off some amazing things with Zul'jin and I had a blast with an above average but still budget Hunter mech deck but after Rank 5 (and into Legendary) this class really hits a wall in regards to its capabilities, survivability and utility. I recognize Oblivitron Mech Hunters and Secret Hunters are competitors in this meta, and again also capable of some really awesome combinations but when you really look at this from a skill per skill perspective I believe the Hunter is getting a little bit short changed here.
A couple of buffs I would like to see for Hunter cards:
Dire Frenzy
Give a Beast +3/+3. Shuffle 3 copies into your deck with +3/+3 Keep all status effects (similar to Kangor's Endless Army "They keep any Magnetic upgrades")
I believe this remains balanced because all effects and upgrades would be kept, including potentially negative effects placed on your minion by your opponent. And yes this means you could potentially add some huge hitting Well Fed Scavenging Hyena's into your deck via Dire Frenzy... I believe this would allow for even more diverse style of Beast Hunter game play.
Zul'jin
I would like to see Zul'jin lowered to 7 cost. Fight me (/s).
Marked Shot
Deal 4 damage.
Discover a spell.
(either change cost to 5 or lower damage to 3 and keep it at 4 I think for balance purposes)
Spirit of the Lynx
Change card type to Beast
Hunting Party
Summon copies of two random beasts in your hand
I know that some of these changes may seem radical compared to the perception of the current balance and meta but I think they would do a lot for the Hunter class in regards to diversification of deck types and playstyles instead of being shoehorned into one viable deck type. I'd also like to see some Spell Damage+ Neutral Beasts added for obvious reasons. I'd also like to hear from everyone else in regards to their opinions on the current meta and changes they would like to see made to either this class or others. Do you agree or disagree with any or all of the changes I propose? Or should I just get gud? If you read through this whole post congratulations this is the end.
TL;DR jaded hunter player
Beast Hunter already is a really strong deck due to how well it goes against Control Warrior and has good matchups pretty much across the board. As for other hunter decks, as you mentioned both Mech and Secret hunter are also good and there's also a lot more spell-focused hunters having success too and so I think buffing the class, especially with a lot of cards that are currently seeing a lot of play is a bit over-the-top.
Ignoring that stuff and just looking at the buffs you suggested, a lot of them either just seems mostly worthless (such as the Spirit of the Lynx and the Dire Frenzy ones) or incredibly busted, such as Zul'jin being 7 and Hunting Party being potentially one of the largest mana cheating cards in the game.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Hunter doesn't have much for mana cheating (nothing that is super sticky anyway) so that's why I feel like Hunting Party could use a buff of some sort like that. And the reason I proposed those changes for Spirit and Dire is because of strengthening Beast decks that utilize Master's Call. Hunter straight draw power is a bit wonky compared to other classes and outside of utilizing other mechanics to summon/copy/whatever your cards out of your deck (your Malygos deck seems to have some cool things going on for it in that regard), it's really easy to lose momentum as a Hunter. And even though the Hunter can hit hard and fast and pull of some Astounding! combos I still think it's a bit weak in its overall utility compared to what some of these other classes are pulling off. Clearly I'm biased towards the Hunter class and I know it's tough to make balance changes without breaking something else I just think the Hunter really lacks versatility compared to what I'm seeing with these other classes.
Edit; I have a real love/hate relationship with Tracking
Hunter shoehorned into one playtype? Hunter has more high tier decks than any class in the game right now. Bomb hunter, secret hunter, and midrange/beast hunter and even mechrattle hunter is flirting with being good (the nechromechanic buff might put it over). One thing I do miss from pre-rotation was that almost every class had a ton of archetypes, now some barely have one. but hopefully another expansion or two will fix that.
The first couple cards are great hunter cards. Zul'jin and Dire Frenzy are already great cards that in no way need a buff. Zul'jin to 7 mana is kind of absurd if you consider the power level of that card and the fact that genuinely terrible cards like Dr. Morrigan got a 2 mana buff, and you want to give Zul'jin 3, lol. Marked shot going face I don't think matters, Spirit of the Lynx being a beast probably makes it too good.
I do like the hunter party suggestion. It might be too overtuned but the idea in general is cool. I really liked big beast deathrattle hunter from previous rotation.
Beast/midrange hunter is pretty amazing atm. It might not be tier 1, but it's still quite competitive. Something that doesn't happen as much as with other classes is that you have to choose your deck carefully, there are many suboptimal versions around that people still play.
Regarding Zul'jin, it's absolutely broken and, in my opinion, miles ahead of hagatha, dr.boom, kangor's or shudderwock (in terms of what hunter needs). There's no need to reduce the cost.
I've played around 150 games with the deck in my signature and dropping Zul'jin wins you the game (in the spot vs aggro, in the following 3-5 turns vs control) about 95% of the time, whether you're ahead or behind. It's just ridiculous.
Sidenote: I agree that spirit of the lynx and hunting party could use a buff, but not in the way you propose (I agree with Echo_ on the reasons why)
Haven't read all the posts but midrange hunter is currently tier 1 in the masters qualifiers. Most of the wins are midrange hunters.
It doesn't need any buff at all.
Hunter has so many tools in order to efficiently tech against any match up.
Isn't Midrange Hunter the best deck right now? It has a very good spread, and it's only horrendous matchup was Lackey Rogue, which is gone.
No need to buff anything as the Archetype is a straight up control killer. I went 6-0 from rank 5 to 3 with this today. It is not quite perfect but worked very well and is fun to play, with several unexpected combos.
Zul'jin is not needed going that heavy on the 6-drops imo.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
In today's grandmaster matches only one player (Amnesiac) played a Zul'jin Hunter (only Hunter at all actually) and he lost twice to a Holy Wrath Paladin. That pally deck was no joke and I think Amnesiac was running without Unleash the Beast which is a huge risk in my opinion.
I was seriously trying to read your post until I saw 7 mana Zul'jin, you have to be a troll.
If you are serious about it then you are the most insane human being to ever walk this earth. Zul'jin is literally the only balanced hero card in the entire game. All the DKs are either trash or busted and then Hagatha is strong and can win you games via pure bullshit RNG and Dr. Boom is way too strong for the current standard. Zul'jin is a perfect balanced play for 10 mana, if you're gonna spend all your turn on a single card it better help you swing the game but not give you infinite value as pretty much any other Hero card.
I hear what you are saying and I don't disagree. Zul'jin being 7 cost definitely seems like a radical idea, but would have draw backs too, like being tempted to drop him after not proc'ing enough spells. 7 would also give you the benefit of getting able to play one or two more cards before/after dropping Zul'jin like as is all the other Hero cards. I know he is still strong as a 10 drop but to your point of the other "broken" heroes I think lowering his cost would be fairly balanced considering how the other classes are performing. Zul'jin does not win every game against other decks dropping their heroes and getting in their combos. Yes, my win rate after dropping Zul'jin is probably around 70% still but its been dropping the other classes are naturally adapting because they just have way more versatility than the Hunter currently.
What game are you playing? Hunter is really good atm and the only really bad match-up was Rogue which is now weaker (No kids it isn't dead, tempo face rogue doesn't work anymore but the class is still decent to be tier 2). Mid-range Beast Hunter is super solid as it beats Warrior due to precisely Zul'jin and also Dire Frenzy, it can beat Mage with pure pressure and SMorc and against most other decks/classes it has fair game, I think the Secret Hunter is also decent enough but I think in the current meta Mid-Range feels stronger.
Also, well of course it would be fantastic if every card was cheaper and you could play more cards alongside it but there's a point for cards being as certain cost you know? most 10 mana cards have defining abilities (if they are good enough or not that's another story) because you have to spend your entire turn doing nothing else than playing them, this can be seen in cards like Bloodreaver Gul'dan or Deathwing... and yes, Zul'jin as well, replaying all your spells is incredibly powerful as you can control what he does and he genrally gives you a beefy board, a couple spells and some secrets so saying it should cost less is the most bias and honestly dumb "buff" anyone can suggest.
I used to play beast hunter, the only 2 cards I would change is master's Call and starvng buzzard.
I would change MC to "discover a minion if it is a beast discover another minion" This would let us get more creative with our beast hunter decks. Shaw/Houndmaster/Spirit/Beastmaster.
I hated baku/kaleseth/Genn/To my side/rhok and i hate Master's Call too.
Id also buff starving buzzard to a 2 7
My opinion is that Zul'jin is fine at 10 mana; It's a slightly weaker Yogg saron so - fair.
Only disappointment is the hero power you get.. That was a chance to make Zul'jin a beserker but instead it's just a steamwheedle sniper.
As for the other cards I don't mind their current state..
-R.i.p Starving Buzzard,
-Hunting Party is super slow and, assuming you got strong beasts in hand, do you really need more?
-Thank Blizzard for Necromechanic buff.. I use it a lot
-Spirit of the lynx..I rarely find a slot for it.. maybe as beast it'd be worth? Meanwhile go sit with Boom's scheme!
Winning!? Nah dawg *Meme-ing!*!! (but also winning)